What geographical area are you in? This is basically a Pacific Coast item (most Sorbus are not successful in the East, due to climate factors as well as pest problems) and was damaged by cold during the 1990 winter in Seattle (USDA 8) - despite having been selected in Vancouver, B.C.

Growing numbers of different kinds of Sorbus is for the most part a S.W. B.C./P.N.W. U.S. and U. K. thing, with only a very limited pool of certain specific kinds being able to persist much elsewhere in North America.

I'm in the Midwest. Iowa to be more exact. I have other Sorbus doing just fine here.

I wouldn't plant ash due to EAB.

EAB does not hunt mountain ash. EAB are in Iowa, and have left my mountain ash trees alone.

Ash are genus Fraxinus and are in the same family as olives and lilacs (Oleaceae). Mountain Ash are genus Sorbus and are in the rose family (Rosaceae), so not related. So EAB isn't a problem for rose family plants. (The problem with common names.)

Thank you NHBabs. If anyone knows where to obtain a Pink Pagoda Mountain Ash tree, please let me know. I am determined to plant one.

when i was in the heat of collecting.. i had a list of at least 25 plants that i was determined to plant ...

yet i never found them available ... which kinda defeated my wants and needs ...

try searching the web with the full and proper latin name ... maybe that will get you somewhere ...

ken

Sorbus hupehensis making it in Iowa seems pretty doubtful to me. Like I said, there are certain Sorbus that will grow outside of the P. N. W. etc. 'Pink Pagoda' being nailed by a hard winter in Seattle - where "hard" = below, say, 10 degrees F. - means that right off it probably won't be able to handle the winters there, apart from the summer climate etc.

I did search for it by its Latin name, with no results. I also looked up Chinese Mountain ash and every other name, such as Rosea. Daves Garden puts this tree as a zone 4.

The fact that the only US onlne suppliers - although all listed as currently "out of stock" - are located in the PNW should tell you something :-) I would also not give much credence to Dave's Garden as a reliable indicator of hardiness and suitability - the fall back zonal info is ALWAYS 4a......and you'll also notice that there are no remarks from anyone growing this specific cultivar. Local growers listed it to a zone 6 at a minimum but even that may be pushing it.

It has also undergone a slight namer change - from hupehensis to pseudohupehensis - as it is apparently distinct enough from the first species to be separated.

As was alluded to in Embothrium's post, not all rowans are of equal hardiness and this one does seem to be on the slightly more tender side. Although at one time it was offered at various local nurseries, it has been in short supply for a number of years. My local nursery has not offered it for sale since 2009.

I was reading a garden blog (not this one) of someone who had the tree growing in zone 5 Colorado. Plant hardiness is best tested by personal experience. I have "iffy" plants growing here because of winter plant protection and plant location (micro climates). Looking forward to anyone who can tell me if they have this tree for trade. Looks like that will be my only source. There is also the Vilmorinii Rowan tree, which is similar. The berries start red and then turn pink....I think this tree is rated at a colder zone. I can't find this tree either....

I have S vilmorinii and it has been a sore disappointment. Despite plenty of flowers (which are not exactly fragrant BTW) it sets few berries and those it does produce tend to fall off pretty quickly. At this precise moment it has no fruit left at all and it was covered in flowers this spring. I don't know why this should be. I might have a rubbish clone but it came from a very reputable source. Or maybe it needs a bit of help with pollination. The foliage is finer than Pink Pagoda.

Every year I say I will cut it down and every year it doesn't seem to happen and I give it one more chance.

An absolute cracker is S cashmeriana. The white berries hang on for much of the winter making it look as if it is covered in blossom.

I looked up the information on cashmeriana, and several nurseries post that as zone 7 (and are out of stock). It does look like a gorgeous tree though. I happily found my pink pagoda tree for a mere $12.00. The nursery is based in Washington, and they specialize in rare plants from China.

Thank you gardengal48! The term "pseudo" was the key that unlocked the door to my discovery.

Since there seems to be a fair amount of debate about the hardiness, please post back here when it's gone through a winter or two to share your experience.

I will add that IME zone 5 in CO is fairly different than zone 5 in New England due to differences in snow amount and duration of the coldest temperatures. I am not sure of how it relates to IA since I don't have experience there.

Not an indication of Rachel Guthrie's success per se, but in Wisconsin, it has been only S. decora, S. aucuparia, and S. americana that I've ever seen.. Again, does not say a thing about the likelihood of this Chinese import's chances.

$12 seems incredibly cheap. How big is the tree? A 5ft tree is around $75 here even though they they are widely available.

2' approximately. I added the Cashmiriana because they had it also, and it was $12.00. They are cheap enough to experiment with. I think that the trees will make it through zone 5, although they may have some dieback. I planted a Yoshino cherry tree 10 years ago, and the tag on it said zone 6. It has survived winters down to -18 F with no dieback. The first 2 winters however, it lost a few limbs. I think the tree became more hardy as time went on. It is a glorious tree of 20' and was loaded with blooms this Spring.

I also planted a Blue Atlas Cedar, who I managed to drag through 5 winters now. A scraggly tree, but alive. Many stick this tree as zone 6 or 7.

I have hopes that my new mountain ash will be fine.

Sorbus hupehensis C. K. Schneid. is now considered a synonym of the seldom seen S. discolor (Maxim.) Maxim. And yes, 'Pink Pagoda' ('Rosea', 'Rufus') belongs to S. pseudohupehensis McAll. anyway.

There is also this one. They were sending it out recently enough that a garden center near here has several in stock. I don't know what the correct species assignment would be.

http://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/2105/coral-fire-mountain-ash/

Not that past experience would tend to support this one working out in Iowa either. In addition to winter conditions a Sorbus has to be able to survive the eastern summers, borers and fire blight.

There are several (European and American) mountain ash trees planted in Iowa. Ash borers, as mentioned above, do not seem to be a problem for these trees. I don't have eastern summers (I'm Midwest, and no 2 summers are the same), and I seldom see fire blight here.

I wasn't talking about ash borers, and the Sorbus you've asked about is Chinese - a whole different critter. Where you are, exactly, in the eastern half of the country will not be likely to make much difference to it.

I use Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub (liquid form) for borers. I don't leave my trees defenseless. I am fully aware that the Chinese mountain ash is different than the American and European. My reference to them was that fire blight has not been a problem to them in this location, nor critters. There are several mature trees with no indication of problems here.

Thank you for all the input, but I still am going to give the Chinese ash tree a chance. You never know until you try.

Posting back to say that my Pink Pagoda survived its first winter here. We hit -18 F and she had slight dieback, but mostly came through just fine.

Thanks for the update. Good news on the survival. How tall is it now?

But can we just reestablish that Mountain Ash (Sorbus) wherever they come from, are not related to Ash (Fraxinus). Borers will not touch them, so they don't need any prophylaxis for it. It's like treating your goldfish for ingrowing toenails. These common names really do cause confusion.

Rachel Guthrie could you please email me the name of the place you ordered your trees? I am running into the same problem trying to find a Coral fire Mountain Ash tree. My email is russetdm@cox.net. Thank you.

Jan Dolph, the tree was purchased at Keeping it Green Nursery. I also purchased one later at Forest Farms.

Jan, Monrovia still has 'Coral Fire' mountain ash listed in their inventory and they are a major wholesale supplier for much of the US retail nursery industry. If you have a nursery close by that buys from Monrovia, they should be able to bring one in for you.

http://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/2105/coral-fire-mountain-ash/

I happily found my pink pagoda tree for a mere $12.00. The nursery is based in Washington, and they specialize in rare plants from China.

Thank you gardengal48! The term "pseudo" was the key that unlocked the door to my discovery.

No, you really didn't actually. You found what are very likely to be open pollinated seedlings of Sorbus pseudohupehenis and not grafted clones of the horticultural selection S. pseudohupehensis 'Pink Pagoda' - the latter is not a common name "pink pagoda" for the wild species. But you may not have needed to get the UBC selection specifically, if its particular features were not exactly what you were after.

https://www.keepingitgreennursery.com/products/sorbus-hupehensis-hubei-mountain-ash

borers will not touch them

This is false, it doesn't matter that emerald ash borer does not infest this genus - borers are still one of the most important pests of Sorbus in eastern North American cultivation.

Bacterial fireblight can be a severe problem, causing scorched leaves at the branch ends. Scab can cause significant defoliation. Cankers, crown gall, powdery mildew and rust may also occur. Insect visitors include borers, aphids, sawfly and scale. Stressed trees are generally more susceptible to attack from canker and borers.

http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=a376

Ok, to be more accurate, ash borers will not touch them. I was referring to the posts in which the terms ash and mountain ash were being used to refer to Sorbus as if they were interchangeable.

Good point about it being an OP seedling. Will be interesting to see if the berries have the desired color.

Iowa on the whole, does not quite have the god-awful summer humidity much of the eastern US has. Ames in the center of the state has JJA nightly lows of 60, 64, 62. Contrast with 64, 69, 68 for Philadelphia and 55,58,58 for Sacramento.

(nightly lows tending to be close to average dewpoint...)

I tried a high elevation SW Chinese Sorbus from Colvos - name forgotten at this point - and it died pretty resolutely in mid-summer, indicated it was unhappy with such high eastern seaboard dewpoints and had no resistance to the root rot organisms we have. On the whole, it's a genus of cool summer climates.

OTOH, Longwood Gardens has a cultivar called Sorbus rufoferruginea 'Longwood Sunset' that they say is heat tolerant, though I've never seen one for sale in a local nursery or on display in a public garden. Seed supposedly came from Tokyo. I have yet to see even a remotely promising picture of one, so I haven't bothered to obtain one. I'm also not convinced it would be disease free here. The other Sorbus I tried was Sorbus alnifolia - did not have the root rot problem and quickly grew to flowering size, but when fireblight found it, it was a lost cause for me. Totally trashed the appearance of it. (not willing to spray for that...funny thing is there are 'wild' crabapples in the woods here, and they never get fireblight!) Too bad though. A healthy, large Sorbus in "full berry" is an impressive sight.

Keep us updated Rachel.

It's Sorbus commixta var. rufoferruginea, a hardier version with a hairiness that helps make it seem intermediate between S. commixta and S. aucuparia. 'Longwood Sunset' was based on a second generation seedling tracing back to a cultivated setting in Japan, has heat tolerance and disease resistance that caused it to be seen as a replacement for S. aucuparia.

It is remarkable because of its heat tolerance. It is one of the few Sorbus that does well in the humid summers of Southeastern Pennsylvania. The name of this cultivar refers to its spectacular fall color.

https://longwoodgardens.org/gardens/about-our-plants/research/breeding-research/longwood-cultivars

Thanks Embo, but, again, I have to question why it is so seldom seen around here, if it has these merits.

Garden centers here have sold all kinds of plants I never see anywhere from my car, on foot or in local collections. And nothing gets on the general market in a big way that isn't picked up by at least one wholesale company, bulked up sufficiently and sent to numbers of garden centers and other retailers. Plus even among those that are given this level of prevalence at least for a few years only a percentage become standard items, that are seen repeatedly for long periods of time. For one thing a plant has to appeal to popular taste, and stay in favor in order to remain on the everyday market. If it doesn't sell well, and quickly, it soon gets dropped by walk-in retailers.

For instance when I worked as a buyer for a garden center I ordered the Coral Fire mountain ash from Monrovia. It stiffed, because just about everybody that came in looking for mountain ash wanted instead the same orange-berried Sorbus aucuparia (a weed in my region) that they were seeing around already. The plants we had were even in fruit, yet, nope it had to the familiar orange one. With the result that the actually much more special Coral Fire ended up being discounted, and certainly was not going to be replaced - once it was finally gotten rid of.

Even retailers selling mail order or on the web, seeming to be oriented more to plant nuts still need the stuff to sell in a timely manner. Otherwise it (sometimes) gets given away, more often marked down or (probably most often) thrown out.

It is one of the few Sorbus that does well in the humid summers of Southeastern Pennsylvania.

says to me a built-in resistance to Sorbus is likely to be present in the regional market - both among producers and consumers - which could have prevented the Longwood introduction from becoming a lasting commercial success there.

In other words I don't think apparent or perceived scarcity as a product automatically demonstrates lack of garden suitability.

"says to me a built-in resistance to Sorbus is likely to be present in the regional market - both among producers and consumers"

OK, I mostly agree...but more due to the retailers and wholesalers....remember the majority of Joe Schmoes around here who visit a garden center have never heard of Sorbus and would probably think "Fireblight" was a heavy metal band if you just asked them what the word meant. Especially if you shop at the big box stores, you see scads of first time homeowners who know nothing about horticulture. Furthermore, a lot of the ones who are somewhat experienced would likely trust the judgment of a nursery or retailer. As you know we are always chasing dreams of the more disease resistant this or that, or the hardier this or that LOL. In fact I'm pretty sure I bought Sorbus alnifolia because some mail order nursery was calling it more disease resistant in humid climates.

I just have to wonder with Longwood being the "brand" that it is, and it not being a relatively new introduction (it is in 1996's NALT!) - why I've never happened upon one in an upscale nursery. I guess the resistance takes a long time to break down.

Yes: maybe it made the rounds in your region ~20 years ago, didn't sell there and was dropped. Where it is mentioned on the web as having been a success is up in Michigan (and a botanical garden in New York has also been growing it for some years, according to their on-line database listings).

What the public is offered is always subject to how the material is handled by the production end of the system. With garden center and other commercial buyers shopping the wholesale lists in a not completely different way from their own customers browsing what gets finally presented to them. So I could see a situation occurring where an item like the Longwood mountain ash gets picked up by a handful of growers, who then have a tendency to send out only large - maybe even boxed - specimens. (As often seems to happen with "rare" trees and even shrubs). Which then serves to limit the retail sales potential even further than any antipathy or wariness that might already be present among end consumers.

I've seen Sorbus alnifolia making marvelous pink clouds of fruit in street plantings in Skagit County (definitely not a fire-blight area), no wonder some think it is desirable.

Thanks for the update.

tj

Wow, I'm all for bumping threads when it is actually an update from the OP!

A picture would be nice...it if is 25 ft tall, one assumes it is fruiting at this point.