I have good success in not losing much foliage and reversing the wilting of new foliage after transplant when I water with 1 tbs sugar dissolved in 2 cup water. I do this immediately after planting and maybe one or 2 more times if I see wilting. Of course I do other things like shade and water frequently too.

Valrose: Thanks for wonderful suggestions and a new angle to the whole things, ie, keeping the top portion of roots above the ground level.

Some of the actions that you mentioned have already been done. Like watering deep and making a pool of water for some time to allow the soil to settle down well around the roots. I always do this.

Keeping the roots above the ground.... I will try it with couple of bushes. However, my area, overall has a very good drainage, ie. water seep down well. I dig a 2 ft dia and 2.5 ft deep hole for my roses and fill that with river soil that again has good drainage and dries out quickly. I can improve this by adding organic matter but suddent shooting up of temp around mid day is a dangerous thing in my climate. Nowadays temp generally stays around 90 to 92*F but for couple of hours, can suddenly shoot up to 100*F around mid day on any day. This sudden rise kills those plants that are yet not established. I lost a big number of sprouted cuttings with quite a few leaves this summer when the temperature rose from 96*F to 107*F just in a matter of hours when I wasn't home. Almost all cuttings in pots died, despite the fact that they were watered in the morning. It is due to the fear of this aspect that I try to keep the roots a bit deep during summers. However, when transplanting in cool weather, I try to keep them as high as possible.

Thanks for the tips regarding organic matter and checking the life in canes.

totoro: Thanks for your suggestion regarding use of sugar solution. I will try that tomorrow.

best regards

Khalid: There's rosarian Kim Rupert, who roots many roses in his hot California climate. His tip is to stick cuttings DEEP, at least 4 inch, or 10 cm, plus pack the soil tight around cuttings. I followed that tip and has more success. Instead of watering (cuttings rot easily with excess water) .. I simply add more wet-soil on top. So my cuttings are deeper than 10 cm.

Val grows OWN-ROOT roses in hot & sandy soil. Her varieties of own-roots are cluster, or "surface-root" type that prefer airy & loamy soil, thus do best planted above surface.

Roses' different root-systems:

1. Cluster & thin roots similar to marigolds & annual flowers, these prefer loamy & airy soil and don't like deep planting: William Morris, Nahema, Heritage, polyanthas, "Drought-tolerant" types like Perle'd Or & Marie Daly, Austin Charles Darwin .. these have pale leaves & need more oxygen, and don't like to be buried deep.

2. Woody & chunky root like Dr.Huey and the dark green & glossy foliage roses that like alkaline minerals: these don't mind deep-planting so they can access the bottom mineral-layer.

Aggressive roots landscape roses: Knock-out, Kordes Flowercarpet take deep-planting well, healthy, and I never water them. Same with water-hog aggressive Austin Climber Crown Princess Mag and Golden Celebration: I planted both deep, and rarely water them.

Fifteen years ago I planted my landscape roses 4 inch. below soil, then I dumped an additional 8 inch of soil above. That's 12 inch. of clay on top. I did that so I never have to water them, never see mildew nor blackspots, and leaves are still dark-green.

But the winter's freezing/thawing action STILL HEAVED those root upwards. Recent years I killed those thorny single-Knock-outs, it took me only 5 minutes each, the entire root was pushed up.

Grafted roses has a bud-union, which is sensitive to being dried-out & damaged in extreme hot or cold, thus for GRAFTED roses, planting deep is an advantage, so the side-branches can produce its own-roots.

It took me 1 hour to kill Centifolia yesterday, there are still some roots below 2 feet, or 0.6 meter. Four years ago, I planted that Centifolia deep in rock-hard clay, plus I put red-lava-rock at the sides, but it went through rocks and invaded my peonies. Centifolia secretes more acid than Dr.Huey rootstock. What's once rock-hard becomes loamy. There are many roots deep down my rock-hard bottom clay, which I can't dig out.

There's water pockets deep at 0.7 meter, or 2.5 feet level. When there's tons of rain, the water is collected at the bottom, since water can't drain off a sticky clay bottom. It's like a water-basin down at 3 feet, or 0.9 meter. I never water Centifolia, but it's lush & healthy, thanks to roots going deep and help itself with that "water-pocket".

The top 2 feet was dry, but once my shovel hit that "pocket of water" at below 0.7 meter, or 2.5 feet, there's water gushing out. If there's a clay bottom, you'll have "water pockets" collected deep below. Below is Centifolia Le Nia Rias, the healthiest rose in my garden, and I never water it (just like my landscape roses). Took me 1 1/2 hour to kill its many suckers.

That's an excellent write up Straw. Lots of info that I was looking for. Interesting observation about water pockets at 3 ft in soil with hard clay bed.

The natural soil in my house (in Islamabad generally) is full of rocks and stones. This is the kind of hole I have to dig for every rose that I plant. 2 ft dia and around 2.5 ft deep.

I have to take out this soil and stone mix and replace it with river soil or some other fertile soil mixed with compost. Digging one hole like this takes quite some time as there are lot of stones to be taken out.

And finally, a rose bush planted.

I am planting grafted roses around 4 inches deep, ie, the graft is 4 inches inside the soil whereas the own root roses are being planted at the shallow depth, ie, I am just burying the roots completely, not burying the canes.

So far shifted around 35 roses and digging 35 holes was quite a job..... I had to hire workers to do the job and it was quite a task disposing the mix of soil and stones that came out of the holes.

BTW, do you think I should keep some of this soil? It looks like full of some kind of a natural lime.... or something that looks like agricultural lime. But no body put it there... it's natural. It would be interesting to get my natural soil tested.

During this hard time when my whole lawn is a mess, it was good to see a few blooms around.

best regards

Khalid: thank you for the lovely blooms, yes, I love the scent of Nahema .. it died over the winter, before I realized that as a child of Heritage, it likes loamy & acidic soil. Leaves & grass clippings are the best mulch to retain moisture .. I like leaves better since it's less acidic than grass clippings, but grass clippings have more nitrogen.

Found this article on your soil: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10661-010-1314-x

" Present study was conducted in rapidly growing city Islamabad, and surface soils were collected from three major land cover types viz., built-up, drain side, and green areas. A total of seven physicochemical parameters and 11 metals were determined in surface soils. Factor analysis based on principal component analysis explained total variance of 68.0%, 64.5%, and 60.2% of three land cover types and showed high loadings for major elements (Mg and K) in built-up and green area and Fe in drain side. Geostatistical methods such as kirging identified hotspot areas of metal contamination by Pb, Ni, and Zn in built-up areas influenced mainly by vehicular emissions and waste disposal. "

From Straw: Pb stand for lead, Ni stand for nickel, Zn stand for zinc, all are anti-fungal agents .. which explains for zero blackspots on your roses, along with a vigorous Centifolia rootstock.

For antifungal trace elements, listed in the order of most potent: Silver, Mercury, Copper, Cadmium, Chromium, Nickel, Lead, Cobalt, Zinc, Iron, and lastly calcium.

From the reddish/bronze look of your soil, I suspect high zinc. Below are 2 pennies, the shiny left is zinc, and the dull & gray one is copper .. I collect them to place in the planting hole, they dissolve faster than red-lava-rock.

Below is my clay, and the whitish is free calcium from gypsum. When I dig down past 2 feet, there's water underneath. In this bed, I never water my landscape roses for the past 15 years. It's always wet like this, even at 86 F today.

Khaleed, I sympathize with the effort it takes to dig a hole. My urban yard was filled with large rocks, old flagstone, chunks of bricks (some whole bricks), logs, rebars, concrete and/or tree roots right below the clay surface extending two feet down. Also I had hills blocking drainage of surface water from the patio. I have used so much compost to amend the soil and formed two little hills 5 ft high from the excess soil in my backyard and front yard where they would not impede drainage.

Just so you regarding the sugar water, I have to heat it to dissolve the sugar. Then I put ice cubes in it to cool it down before applying. Hope it works for you. Despite watering a lot and shading, I often still see wilting of new stems (I don't cut back before moving, I just wait to see which canes make it and which don't) so that is when I would try the sugar water and it would perk up within an hour or two.

Heritage

Straw: Thanks for another very informative write up..... you had me thinking on the issue. Agree with you on the anti fungal characteristics of lead, zinc and copper along with K and Ca. The article you quoted did not give the exact values of these metals found in Islamabad soil. Also, Islamabad is a big area and it wasn't mentioned from which part samples were taken. So I looked for more information.

Have a look at this article.... Impact of Soil on Vegetation in Islamabad

This gives more information about the soil type and characteristic. I live in the base of Margalla Hills. In Table 1, the last entry "Margalla South Directed Sunny Slopes" is my area. And as per this article, soil pH of my area is 7.49 and I have a loamy soil.

Here is another article giving amount of metals found in the top soil in an area 20 km away from my house. I am not sure my area will have the same values because am living just under the hills and this areas is a dam that is quite low in elevation.

http://www.scielo.cl/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S0718-95162016000100007

Table 1. Soil variables with mean, standard deviation and F-values collected from sampling sites

As per this table, there is quite a bit of Fe, Cu, P and K found in Islamabad soil. But as I said this area is 20 km away. Secondly, I take out all the local soil and replace it with the river soil / better quality agricultural soil. I think that soil will show characteristics different from the area.

Totoro: Sugar solution seems to have better results. Leaves of my roses where I used sugar solution wilted far less than leaves of other roses shifted earlier. Thanks a ton for the tip.

best regards

Aileen: heritage is very lovely, with healthy leaves. My French Meilland Betty White has large & round leaves. The big water-hogs in my garden all have large leaves and like alkalinity: Pat Austin, Stephen Big, and Betty White.

My William Morris has really small leaves and hates my wet & alkaline clay, its roots is hairy cluster rather than woody & chunky like Betty White. Below is Betty White with its large & glossy leaves. The lower leaves are even bigger:

Khalid: Your Auguste Luise is absolutely perfect with so many ruffled petals. Your pic. of reddish/brown stones made me curious as to its chemical composition. I checked on "red clay" as in Southeast USA or Jess in South Africa and found this "Ultisols vary in color from bright reddish-orange, to pale yellowish-orange and even some subdued yellowish-brown tones. They are typically quite acidic, often having a pH of less than 5. The red and yellow colors result from the accumulation of iron oxide (rust), which is highly insoluble in water. Major nutrients, such as calcium and potassium, are typically deficient in ultisols, which means they generally cannot be used for sedentary agriculture without the aid of lime and other fertilizers, such as superphosphate."

Then I check on the light-yellow dolomite stones & clay in my garden and Wikipedia stated, "Solid solution exists between dolomite, the iron-dominant ankerite and the manganese-dominant kutnohorite.[8] Small amounts of iron in the structure give the crystals a yellow to brown tint. Manganese substitutes in the structure also up to about three percent MnO. A high manganese content gives the crystals a rosy pink color. Lead, zinc, and cobalt also substitute in the structure for magnesium."

My clay is the iron-dominated dolomite (yellow). Manganese deficiency is rampant in my area. Limestone has these anti-fungal agents: lead, nickel, zinc and cobalt.

Dolomite lime is much higher in magnesium & calcium, but wood ash can contain up to 10% potassium as in hardwood. Woodash is much higher in all anti-fungal trace, esp. boron, chromium, copper, and zinc.

http://hubcap.clemson.edu/~blpprt/bestwoodash.html
Wood Ash ******** Limestone Conc. in %
Calcium 15 ******** 31
Potassium 2.6 ******* 0.13
Aluminum 1.6 ******* 0.25
Magnesium 1.0 ******* 5.1
Iron 0.84 ******** 0.29
Phosphorus 0.53 ***** 0.06
Manganese 0.41 ******* 0.05
Sodium 0.19 ****** 0.07
Nitrogen 0.15 ******* 0.01

Microelements Concentration in mg/kg
Wood Ash ****** Limestone
Arsenic 6
Boron 123
Cadmium 3 ***** 0.7
Chromium 57 ***** 6.0

Copper 70 ***** 10
Lead 65 ***** 55
Mercury 1.9
Molybdenum 19
Nickel 20 **** 20
Selenium 0.9
Zinc 233 **** 113

CaCO3 Equivalent 43% (woodash) 100% for limestone

pH woodash is 10.4 versus pH of limestone is 9.9

*** From Straw: For antifungal trace elements, listed in the order of most potent: Silver, Mercury, Copper, Cadmium, Chromium, Nickel, Lead, Cobalt, Zinc, Iron, and lastly calcium.

Khalid: Just saw your post that your soil pH being pH 7.49 and loamy. It looks great like the potting soil we use here at pH neutral. The brown/reddish tinge stones got me curious, since my stones are light yellow limestone. Will post pics. of my underlayment limestone clay, I'm debating weather to use my bottom clay to top roses, or use the WHITE Espoma Garden lime.

I got some wood-ash from my neighbor last year, it's very loamy & fluffy.

I tested the WHITE Espoma Garden lime in pots .. wimpy own-roots hate that stuff, but Double-Delight (grafted on Dr. Huey) likes the white garden lime.

WOULD LOVE TO SEE ANYONE'S PICS of their soil / stones .. that give clues to chemical composition.

Aileen: Your Heritage looks great. Mine produced only two blooms this season. I am not sure why? My William Morris, Heritage, Graham Thomas, Golden Celebration, Alan Titchmarsh and St. Swithun are all in same size pots, have exactly the same potting mix (river soil 7 parts + home made compost 3 parts) and the pots are placed in the same area and get similar amount of sunlight. All others bloomed well but Heritage produced only two blooms. In another thread I saw Sam's Heritage blooming so well..... may be I am doing something wrong? Are there any specific requirements for Heritage?

Straw: I will try to post more pics of natural soil in my area. It is full of roundish stones of varying sizes, some of them are pretty big. BTW your Betty White bush is flawless. Actually all your roses have perfect foliage. This is the problem I am facing since June this year in my garden. Foliage of many of my roses is miserable and diseased. Will post few more pics in the mineral deficiency thread.

best regards

Thanks so much for that info about the yellow vs orange clay. Mine is orange clay.

Also thanks for explaining about the large leaves preferring water and alkalinity. Maybe that is why my First Crush from Kordes is not blooming or growing much.

Where does one buy wood ash or do you have to have a fireplace or something?

After seeing photos from you and others of Betty White I have been interested in it for my garden. But maybe I need to just stick with roses that prefer my acidic soil.

Here is my soil top left mixed

Aileen (Totoro): I meant to take pics. of my bottom clay layer, but the weather is rainy & gloomy all day. My bottom-most layer at 3 feet deep looks like that light-yellow blob in the middle of your pic,

I have light-yellow/whitish stones high in calcium. I don't have the orange-stones like yours. Orange/red means it's high in iron.

Your pic. looks like clay to me. If you have soft clay, then it's acidic. My last house was soft & black clay, with blue hydrangeas and really dark-green foliage on roses.

My present house is alkaline clay at pH 7.7 (pale leaves on roses), so it's rock-hard when dry, and sticky like mud when wet. The denser & stickier the clay, the higher the magnesium. Magnesium is the "glue" that bind soil particles together. Loamy soil that runs through one's fingers is low in magnesium, but sticky soil that sticks to one's shoes is high in magnesium.

The many petals rose benefit from high-magnesium soil. High magnesium means more alkaline, and between pH 7 to pH 8 range, there's more potassium & calcium & magnesium for the zillion petals like Austin roses.

The texture of the soil matters more than the pH. I can raise the pH easily just by dumping Garden Lime. And my pH 8 soil actually becomes slightly acidic with tons of acidic rain. After 3 years of using rain-barrel water, my amended soil is no longer bluish-green in red-cabbage juice, it's either clear (neutral pH at 7), or slightly acidic (slightly pink in red-cabbage). But my soil is still sticky clay, regardless of pH.

If your soil is sticky clay, then it's easy to grow French Romantica like Betty White & with big & fat & glossy leaves .. raising the pH with Garden Lime is easier than lowering the pH with sulfur.

For sticky clay, it's a total nightmare to grow roses that thrive in Val's sandy soil. I would need a truck load of sand to change my clay into loamy. Roses that like sandy/loamy soil and hate clay are: the drought-tolerant type like Perle 'd Or (died over my winter), the Rugosa-genetics like Austin Eglantyne, and wimpy Jude the Obscure (four of them died on me), plus multiflora-parentage Austin Lady of Shalott ... this gave me endless pain. Also Kordes Deep Purple: can't scecrete acid for dense clay, and can only thrive in fluffy-potting soil.

Lots of CA folks complain about Kordes roses as being stingy. Some Kordes roses stay healthy by producing less acid, thus can't handle dense clay. I find that aggressive and thick & chunky roots are best for clay, the pH doesn't matter (can be adjusted easily).

Own-root French Romantica roses: Bolero, Frederic Mistral, Pink Traviata, Betty White, Dee-lish, The McCartney rose are known for aggressive root.

Roses with Rugosa or Multiflora heritage don't do well in clay .. the pH doesn't matter, its the dense texture of clay & lack of oxygen that these type can't handle. Also Multiflora don't tolerate salt, and clay retains salt well.

Thanks so much for the list. I never know what the roots look like since mine are so young when I get them.

The exceptions were Lady of Shallot and Wollerton Old Hall which I bought own root bare root from DA. I recall being struck by how thick woody they appeared so I am surprised that Lady of Shallot is considered wimpy. But then again, I have not seen many root systems to compare them with.

I have Jude and I finally found a shady spot where it is doing OK (grew and bloomed a fair amount all summer, gets some blackspot). Maybe because I did heavily amend the soil with compost and possibly perlite.

best regards

Thank you for posting bush-shot of your roses, esp. of Shocking Blue. That cat is so relax, and really nice fur. Just Joey is too short for my cold zone, I need climbers or tall roses so the bunnies don't eat the leaves. Plus it's nice to stand up to sniff the roses, rather than crawling on the ground. For everyone: What are your tallest roses? Thank you !!

Straw: I agree. Just Joey is good for the pots or may be a place in the front of the lawn where it is visible otherwise it is small enough to get lost amongst the bigger bushes.

Shocking Blue today....

Khalid: Thanks for those gorgeous pics., I like all the bush-shots you took .. so rare to find bush-shots. Shocking blue is very nice & lots of blooms. How's the scent?

Double Delight does not like the salt in chicken manure .. is having a touch of mildew in my garden as of now, sept. 24. That one is the easiest in my garden: always blooming, but I have to give it dolomitic lime to raise the pH plus low-salt fertilizer. I don't care for DD's scent, but the blooms are nice.

Agree with you on getting rid of rose that don't perform well. Shortcut to happiness is to place our focus where it pays off the most. No sense in putting my focus on roses that give zero rewards, but disappointments.

I will kill Buck Prairie Harvest .. healthy & blooms lots & zero care, but the blooms are so ugly, it's a pain to look at .. frankly some weeds give prettier flowers.

Straw wrote: "I will kill Buck Prairie Harvest .. healthy & blooms lots & zero care, but the blooms are so ugly, it's a pain to look at .. frankly some weeds give prettier flowers."

After reading this comment, Prairie Harvest will never find a place in my garden.....even if I am gifted one. ha ha ha

During the shifting of my roses in the past 20 days.... I didn't shift many roses inside the house rather planted them outside my house wall in the green area. This also included an old bush of Bajazzo that produces most stunning blooms once in a while but needed lot of care to do well and I was sick of giving that much of care to only one or few roses. I have around 130 bushes and can't spend so much effort on few roses. Mr Bajazzo has to do something to survive without any care outside my house. Given him enough time in the past two years.

In the meanwhile, the roses having been shifted are generally doing well. Thanks to suggestions by Straw, Valrose and Varporvac. Watering the hole well before shifting, shifting in the evening, giving concentrated sugar solution and making a dam of water in the hole for some time do seem to work so far and I guess most of the roses are doing ok. Few look so fresh as if they have not been shifted....

Few pics.

Papa Meilland (center) seems to be ok after 15 days. Signature on right and Parveen Shakir on left, both shifted 4 days back. Hope Parveen Shakir survives.

Tipu Sultan, shifted 4 days back, looks great...... is it due to sugar solution? But a concentrated sugar solution was given to all, except those planted 15 days back.

I hope most of my roses, if not all, are going to survive. I am praying for a 100% survival rate but all my friends around are not happy that why did I shift my roses in this weather. Locally, nursery guys don't shift roses before 3rd week october.

best regards

Khalid: Glad to see your shift roses looking good. My Christopher Marlow looks like yours, despite my shifting in cool temp.

Do you have wet straw, hay, or leaves to put around the bush to retain moisture? Green canes mean safe. I dug up Betty White a month ago in hot weather, it lost all its leaves but grew healthy leaves within a month ... I kept the root moist.

Straw: Good thing is that within a weeks time, 5-6 roses have started sprouting fresh leaves. Those leaves that shred all their leaves are sprouting. Those that still have green leaves aren't sprouting yet.

I have tried to fill the holes with as many leaves as I can to retain moisture. I am hoping so far that less two or three roses, all others will hopefully survive.

Here is Mary Rose blooming after 4 months..... a single bloom but a beautiful large size bloom....

best regards

Khalid: Your Mary Rose has the DEEPEST pink color ever !! Love that. L.D.B has a cheerful red (I like that shade). Sheila perfume buds are pretty.

My roses get more petals with horse manure .. the shell-lime (calcium & phosphorus) really help .. plus more branching too from higher phosphorus. When husband asked "what do you want for your birthday?" I said "horse manure", and if he asks, "what do you want for Mother's day", I'll say "horse manure" .. love that horse manure which makes blooms bigger & firmer petals & and deeper colors.

Well-rotted horse manure has a clay-like-density, which I need a thick shovel to break through .. strong stuff to buffer acidic rain.

Straw: I agree, a very impressive bloom but the only one in many months...... Mary Rose only bloomed for me during spring.

I don't have horse manure available to me but chicken manure is available in plenty. I had stopped direct application of chicken manure in the roses and was using it in the compost. Do you think I should restart direct application of chicken manure in the pots and rose beds?

Khalid: The bag of stinky chicken NPK 5-3-2 said to mix with soil before applying. With the well-composted, lower-nitrogen & no odor coop-poop NPK 2-4-3 ... I still mix that with horse manure (90% wood-chips).

I did answer you question on gypsum killing maggots (compost thread), but my window-update wiped out what I wrote. Will answer that soon.

Apply chicken manure directly: it gunks up in one spot & kill surface roots, thus leaves wilt in high-heat. By diluting that with soil or compost, the release is more gradual. Nitrogen sources (chicken manure, blood meal, grass-clippings) all have an ACIDIFYING effect. My bag of blood meal stated, "can be use to acidify the soil".

I had seen mold growing on chicken manure during spring rain, whitish & icky stuff .. it's clearly acidic. Since I can't top pots with soil, I put 1/4 cup of chicken-manure plus some gypsum, and my Louise Este broke out in aphids immediately, even with NPK 2-4-3. When nitrogen release is too fast, that will attract aphids. I really didn't need to give it gypsum, since Coop-Poop has 8% calcium.

I gave that own-root high-pH pea-gravel to raise the pH, and that took care of the aphids .. I take pale leaves over aphids anytime.

OK. So that means mixing chicken manure in the soil is not such a bad idea. I was doing it regularly last year but this year I stopped doing that. I think I need to do both..... mix more of chicken manure in compost and some of it directly in the soil too.

Your chicken manure is perhaps a processed one as you say there is not odor. Mine came direct from a poultry farm a year back. Its well rotten but not processed. It is as it is..... a chicken manure.

best regards.

Khalid: I appreciate your questions which shed insight to what I do wrong in my garden. I had just realized that aphids is caused by acid which makes leaves thinner, plus too much soft-growth from fast-release nitrogen. If I did NOT put gypsum on Louise Este, along with chicken manure, it WOULD NOT have instant aphids in this late fall.

Gypsum is acidic, plus the 22% calcium promotes fast nitrogen-uptake. Aphids is common during acidic spring rain, plus nitrogen fertilizer.

I had seen the rose park sprinkled tons of sulfur in spring (92% calcium sulfate dehydrate, 20% calcium 16% sulfur). That burnt their Austin Tamora, plus French Meilland/Romantica Pink Traviata was instantly infested with RRD (rose rosette virus, carried by a mite).

Straw: Only problem I had this year is crinkled leaves, otherwise very few aphids and thrips. Could it be because I did not use any chemical fertilizer nor chicken or any other manure in large quantity that I used to dump in my roses earlier. But I think I should restart chicken manure in small quantity that too on top of a layer of dry leaves. However, I will still keep using bulk of my chicken manure in the vegetable / fruit compost. I want to see how good that compost would be.....

Lot of buds on Pink Perfume. This rose looks impressive in photos but in reality, it is not that impressive.

Very healthy foliage on Pink Perfume, and you have the best color on Just Joey. LDB is cheerful, that one is known for light scent. How's your Nahema grafted on Centifolia? Folks with own-root Nahema report its being stingy ... Nahema was really stingy on me.

Straw: It looks vigorous but since mine is in a pot so I can't comment with authority how it will perform. It looks to me it needs a much bigger space and should be planted in ground. My Nahema in pot didn't bloom much for me this season.

Khalid - good job on getting all of your roses moved!!! What a huge job you did!!!! Great! Another thing I would do for them is to mist/spray the leaves a few times/day.

Glad to see you're getting roses again!!

Carol

Carol. Thanks.... yest it was quite a job to shift so many roses. I realised that it will be impossible for me to dig over 40 holes so I hired someone to do that. Was very busy in past three to four weeks in my office. But all said, shifting is complete. yes I am misting them regularly every day but the hottest part of the day is at noon when I am not home. That is the time misting should be done..... but I can't help it much.

Very few roses blooming nowadays.....mostly roses trying to recover after shifting. Only roses in pots blooming at the moment.

Fragrance is the local rose Tipu Sultan is really improving. A strong old rose scent now..

I've never heard of Pink Perfume. Looks lovely!! I looked it up on HMF and it's supposed to have a strong fragrance. But, you're right, it just could be too hot where you are in the day time. I really love your Casino!! The middle part is fabulous!!! Wow!! Tipu Sultan looks great too and has the added benefit of a strong old rose scent!!! Yay!!! Love that scent!

Carol

Khalid: Tipu Sultan is a gem !! I love that red color, and Pink Perfume has a great bush-shape & cheerful blooms. Foliage on Pink Perfume is very healthy & lush .. was it from chicken manure, or from the high-nitrogen additives in your compost?

Carol: HMF gives sketchy details about Pink Perfume. I am not impressed with the fragrance but it blooms quite profusely and is healthy. That way quite a trouble free rose.

Yes.... As the weather gets cooler, fragrance of Tipu Sultan is getting stronger. It didn't impress me much in hottest part of the summer but now it is catching up well.

Straw: My nitrogen & trace element enriched compost is still in the making. So it is the previous compost which is the same compost minus chicken manure (but chicken manure has otherwise been mixed in the potting soil in every pot).

A profuse bloomer is always welcome! Wish I could smell Tipu Sultan. I love the name!

Carol

Carol and Straw: Now my qualifying criteria for roses have changed. Previously, I used to select a rose considering its beauty and fragrance only and then would make all king of efforts to make it grow well. Now, I want to grow roses that are robus, low maintenance and highly fragrant. These are the qualifying criteria and with this, I would select the most beautiful rose that I could lay hands on. Getting sort of sick of growing so called beautiful looking roses that need so much care to perform well.

Few pics......

Surprisingly, GC had strong fragrance when it was super hot but as the weather is cooling down, fragrance is decreasing. This is a rare and unique characteristic that not many roses display....

Khalid: Thank you for the abundance of blooms. Glamis Castle is such a pretty bush. Pat likes it alkaline, I love its vibrant color. Casino has more petals & deeper color ... Is your weather cooling down?

Very good branching on your Pink Perfume, that shows how well phosphorus in your chicken manure helps with branching (fuller round bush), rather than one-cane wonder.

I'm fixing my compact clay with coarse sand, so phosphorus uptake can improve with loamier soil for better scent & more branching.

My 2 Double Delight as own-roots bloomed only 1/2 as much as Double Delight GRAFTED on Dr. Huey. So instead of having 8 buds, the own-root had 4 buds the most. Hybrid teas are best grafted .. same with Pink Peace, the grafted one is a continuous bloomer, versus a pause for the own-root.

Austin roses do well as own-roots, except for Jude the Obscure, Eglantyne, Lady Emma Hamilton, and PAK.

Khalid - I love your Tom Brown, Glamis Castle and Casino!!! I don't think I've ever seen Glamis Castle look so lovely!! Your roses have to handle such high heat. You're doing a great job with them!!

Carol

Straw: Weather is Islamabad has cooled down a bit but not much. It is no more around 100 but still in the low 90s and high 80s.

Glamis Castle has been an excellent performer in my hot climate. I think after the monsoon rains, Pat Austin soil is a bit acidic but my alkaline tap water should have raised the pH level by now. However, the bush has still not recovered and it is quite shabby and weak at the moment with very little fresh growth.

Pink Perfume forms a healthy bush. The other day I say five bushes planted outside a house where they were apparently not being looked after and they were very healthy and blooming profusely. That shows it is a robust rose that doesn't need much care. That impresses me but I am not satisfied with the fragrance strength. It might be a nice cultivar to plant in a back yard where it will keep blooming without much care.

Double Delight grafted performs better but overall, its not a robust rose. Needs quite a bit of care to perform well and I think I have better options now. Though the fragrance is strong but I don't like the lychee scent much. Blooms are beautiful though.

Carol: Thanks for your comments. Tom Brown has a very unique shade and I love it. Glamis Castle is a gem for hot weather.

This may be the best pics of your roses, yet, Khalid! Just stunning.

Straw, you wrote earlier:" Lots of CA folks complain about Kordes roses as being stingy. Some
Kordes roses stay healthy by producing less acid, thus can't handle
dense clay. I find that aggressive and thick & chunky roots are best for clay, the pH doesn't matter (can be adjusted easily)."

I wonder if this explains why I've had hardly any flowers on my new this year, OR Summer Romances, while my grafted Dark Desires are blooming like mad since planted out. However, Fire Opal is also super floriforous OR, but their beds are well-drained on a slope and the soil is naturally much lighter in texture. Or maybe it's just Summer Romance as a cultivar ie. slow to mature or just stingy. I hope its not the latter as it's in a quite prominent place.

Sorry for th bold. I can't get out of it.

Vaporvac: Fire Opal has less petals. Dark Desires is known as very aggressive as own-root. Summer Romance has lots of petals, which mean a higher demand for potassium and calcium (plenty in alkaline clay).

For less petals land-scape roses, use high-phosphorus fertilizer like chicken manure. Prairie Harvest is a Buck Rose (less petals), didn't improve until I give it Coop-Poop NPK 2-4-3.

For zillion of petals like Austin roses, use high-potassium & calcium, such as sulfate of potash/gypsum for alkaline-tap water, or sulfate of potash/lime during acidic rain.

If the zillion-petals have pale leaves or stingy, then use SOLUBLE fertilizer, pale or stingy mean roots are too wimpy to secrete acid, and have to be spoon-fed high-dose SOLUBLE fertilizer with at least a 20 for potassium and phosphorus, plus acidic gypsum for calcium.

One person in Texas could not make Graham Thomas to bloom in alkaline clay, until the nursery advised to use low nitrogen, but super-high in P, K, calcium & trace elements. Versigny and Dee-lish are both children of Graham Thomas, and both need frequent SOLUBLE fertilizer, plus loamy soil.

Varporvac: Thanks. I have posted pics in many other threads too. May like to go through the below mentioned links if you have time. I guess best photos can be found in Spring Flush 2016.....Zone 9b thread when my roses were at their best.

Burning Heat & Monsoon...... Zone 9b Islamabad ,

My Roses in Burning Heat...... Zone 9b

Spring Flush 2016.... Zone 9b

My Roses in Zone 9a - 2016

Few latest pics......

And many of my newly transferred roses have started sprouting.

best regards

Khalid: I'm happy for your newly transplant roses, looking good with all the leaves. Charlotte is stingy at the rose-park, Julia Child is a much better yellow. Your Casino is a gem, so pretty !!

Khalid - I love your Casino!! I love its pom pom petals!!

Carol

Went through Khalid's pics. Saw the prickles on Auguste Luise, and nice bush-shot of Rouge Royal (leaves similar to Liv Tyler ??).

I really appreciate Khalid's fantastic photography that show the thorns & bush-shape of each rose, and esp. the fragrance info. The newly transplanted roses look really good.

Straw, Carol, thanks. Casino is a good one and with temps cooling down (around 85*F since past few days), Casino blooms are getting a more deep yellow shade instead of cream that it was in hot summers...

This blooms doesn't have those zillion pom pom petals but is a much darker yellow with strong fragrance early morning. Fragrance is fruity honey mixed. It is the same bush with a cream zillion petal bloom in the previous post. Please compare the two blooms and they look so different..... time difference is 4 days.

Khalid: Somehow I missed these wonderful new pics !! Amazing how Casino bloom gets deeper yellow at cooler temp. of 85 F ... that temp is hot for my climate !!

I love the color of your Pink Perfume. Thank you for the info. on scent of Alan T., and the lesser scent of PAK, Double-Delight. L.D.B has a nice bush-shape, same with Ebb Tide. Scentimental looks really good !!

Khalid - so nice to see that your roses have survived the transplant and are looking really good!! Love your PAoK!! I just love that pink and petal formation! But my fav is Pink Parfait!! Wow - what a stunner!!!

We just got back from Thanksgiving in Edmonton with all my family. We had a lovely time.

Carol