Seconded.

Does one have a better advantage over another other than weight????

I mean, like as in does one provide better aeration, or moisture, or fertilizer within a mix?

Thank you

Lol, Breton!

I use perlite because I haven't found any pumice yet, but I don't like it much for many of the reasons hookilau mentioned above. I also don't care for the stark whiteness in my mix.

(side note - I typed 'hooki' but my phone autocorrected to hookilau LOL)

Yes, Mike. Perlite will float longer on the foam and get stuck on your bangs if you're drinking from an open barrel.

Pagan

*chokes on coffee*

hehe, nicely done, Pagan :)

Agree with above. The dust and floating drive me crazy. Since using pumice, I will never go back. My Haworthia LOVE it! The product sold by General Pumice is almost dust free. For those living in Canada, I would be happy to order product and ship to you. The downside, of course, is the postage from me to you. Shipping from General Pumice is free.

Pumice offers better aeration than perlite as part of the mix but it isn't as micro pourus as perlite. Pumice is also more stable lasting eons longer in a mix than perlite. With a minor draw back pumice tends to pinch if the succulent has a caudex forming habit I find use for both softer perlite and pumice in parts

At the same time pumice has a shorter dry time than perlite but is more reliable in higher heat conditions with the same volume of water in a same size pot for pot side by side same exact plant comparison. I also notice no significant differences in feeding.

Pumice and it's longer life span provides a soil that has pumice as part of the mix will always have the same amount of pumice in it's mix, the pot with perlite as part of the mix won't always have perlite in it and will also out last other gritty mix ingredients as well.

Another pumice advantage I notice is it's alot easier to water any succulent removing the ideas of doubts and silly dowels.

You might want to take a look at this excellent post on water porosity of different mix components by ewwmayo.

I would like to replace perlite with pumice, but I simply don't have the space to store 15# of pumice on my balcony. Plus, I won't be doing any major potting until next Spring. Maybe I will find some storage and give it a try then.

Nomen, you are soooo smart. Thx for your comments!

Biker; Not me it's like being barefooted in lace free shoes ( aka sandals ) just to save from laundering hard sun ordered soaks while remembering my own name can also be a challenge

Mike ; That last one is yours DFTW soon, so I wont have to do for you on delivery after that DFTC ( don't forget to call).

Perlite ( super chunk) still viable ( and still floating VIA used as a top dressing) on the surface nearing the summers end of a E.schoenlandii is seen only because of the level wind protection it got from blowing it out of the pot while outside allowing for a desired cooler pot Note: this is also a pumice free pot.

E. Kunthii with pumice used as a top dressing and a good part of the mix ( is also a perlite free mix) got less wind blowing protection allowing for a warmer pot but got an equal volume and frequency of watering as the E. schoenlandii through out the warmer summer months.

Undetermined (or perhaps subject for debate) Pumice with no perlite in part of a mix also offers easier and faster indoor to outdoor transitioning

@nomen_nuden "Undetermined (or perhaps subject for debate) Pumice with no perlite in part of a mix also offers easier and faster indoor to outdoor transitioning"

Interesting! How so?

Never seen pumice for sale here, so perlite it is. How I hate that stuff though!

Gill

There IS WEIGHT to pumice, a little more than perlite. Also, pumice seems to hold water a little longer than perlite. If I plant in pure pumice, my mix will stay moist for 3-5 days, but less with perlite. That said -- pumice doesn't float to the top of a mix, doesn't choke you with dust, and doesn't discolor in the soil mix. I use both. If I am going to mix with C/S soil, I prefer pumice. But the big issue is -- what can you get your hands on?

Pumice is heavier & weighs down my pits better. It's WAY easier to work with (the static in perlite makes me insane). It doesn't blow out of pots, and it tends not to slowly work it's way to the top. On the other hand, I like perlite for light mixes and to starting leaves.

I prefer pumice because:

1. It has a much better CEC than perlite (nil).
2. Better durability / reusability without turning to dust.
3. Doesn't float as much as perlite or bark when watering (but still floats and can be annoying).
4. Less prone to settling to the top or bottom of a soil mix (but will rise to the top if you completely flood the pot often).

Characteristics that I find to be about equivalent:

1. Water retention is similar.
2. Pumice is about as hard to get as large chunky perlite.
3. Both can perform well in a mix or when used alone.

Renee, I think you would be surprised by how small the 15lb bag of pumice is. It comes in the large priority mail box.

I only use Perlite in hanging baskets, because it keeps the weight down. I got a large sized Perlite from RepotMe, which has very little dust. I mixed it 50/50 with regular soil for my Pothos, and so far I haven't had that floating problem.

I agree with Leslie, the 15 pound bag of Pumice is not that large. Here's the box mine came in

I'm thinking we need to get a group discount from Lexi at General Pumice with all these glowing recommendations!

Renee I find it easy for someone to want to disagree with the sometimes while more often than not obscure methods I use.

I just blame it on my window space indoor lighting equipment I use and the heavy pumice mix that's perlite free for a faster indoor to outdoor transitioning that is needed for certain plants to induce it's growing with out worry of rot or other problems that often occur with weaker lighting conditions

An example of brief. I have some succulents that go from under winter lights during the entire winter to a inside window sill in March to fullest harder sun in a day with no sun filtering protection screen at all as early as late April early May.

Haworthia Reinwardrii V. something

But not every succulent can handle front of the house full sun here and can still handle the same speed of transitioning just not pot VS. pot side by side day by day . On the other hand we would be calling this one toast if kept side by side in the same lighting sun time conditions. Fact is it at this adobe it would still be toast even if left inside sill with a bug screen down all summer long IME it likes late day full hard sun for apx five to six hours all summer long.

but as of lately there is no late day four -six hours of sun out back so it is back out front for what ever sun it can get ranging times are 9 AM to 1:PM then sun hit again at around 5 PMish to sun set.

When I mention full hard sun what I mean is: If you picture a soccer field and you are standing in the middle of that soccer filed your in full hard sun You might need a little something any ideas what that is ?

I have used pumice and love it. But it's too expensive to pay for shipping, since it's not sold around here. Therefore I prefer the larger sized perlite, when I can find it.

I use the smaller size perlite if I can't get the larger size. I like the lightness of it, because I have huge pots for plumerias and citrus. My plants have always done well in it.

Dave

I thought that GeneralPumice ships free within US?

GPP does ship for free. It's not expensive at all, and it's a beautiful product

Leslie & Manuel: Thanks for letting me know about the size. I can absolutely store that on my balcony. Gonna order some Pumice ASAP.

nomen: Okay, so if I'm understanding you, you're saying that using Pumice instead of Perlite (and the fact that your plants get strong light of some kind year round) eliminates the need to acclimate them when transitioning from indoors to out. Did I get that right?

I'm interested in any method that will reduce the risk of sunburn when I transition next year. I'm thinking about, but not totally committed to, using lights this winter.

"When I mention full hard sun what I mean is: If you picture a soccer field and you are standing in the middle of that soccer filed your in full hard sun You might need a little something any ideas what that is ?"

Hmmm... Lemme think... Give me a minute...

Got it! Pumice, right? LOL =D

Thanks!

Manuel - I am just going what they advertise on their website: http://www.generalpumiceproducts.com/order-here/

Like many other places no sunlight is strong year round here Inside lighting is a help but is still apx 1/5th of the outside sun that is already less time in the winter months.

Point being is ( IMO) pumice is better/superior and easier to manage in comparison to perlite for many succulent applications.

I also think it's a little important to understand the plants we grow regardless of the substrates we choose to use also. IME any jade in the same exact day to day sunlight conditions as that small Hawothia in prior pic would also be called toast even though both are in a sized close to correctly pot of pumice with no perlite.

Rina, I was agreeing with you. I said that it "does ship for free".

Manuel - I must be loosing it....have to pay more attention :)

All great points which I really appreciate)

Nomen, thank you for holding my fertilizer!!

Has anyone here addressed what I consider very important? If pumice makes a difference in nutrient absorption and provision as compared to perlite? In other words, does pumice hold and provide nutrients better than perlite?

Thank

I'm afraid pumice will do no such thing, Renee.

Using pumice instead of perlite will not "eliminate the need to acclimate
them when transitioning from indoors to out". The substrate has little, if anything, to do with adjusting plants from full sun to winter shelter and vice versa. Plants handle these fluctuations by regulating the production of chlorophyll, among other things. In shadier conditions, they will produce more in order to absorb more energy from the light source. In full sun, they will slow it down a bit, or produce other compounds, in order not to burn. Plants that can not do this switch fast enough will burn. Most plants that are not gradually reintroduced to full sun will also burn.
However, it IS true that if the plant is not
suffering from root-related stress due to poor substrate, they'll readjust to full sun
faster. But using pumice is not a shortcut to the process of gradual acclimatization.

As for nutrients, Mike, perlite will hold fertilizer-loaded water longer, since it stays wet longer, especially if it is used unsifted (i.e. with all the dusty bits included). The down side of this, of course, is that the roots also sit in wet substrate longer. Some succulents will tolerate it, but a lot of them will not. How much nutrient they get depends on how much they will absorb before the substrate dries up. Drying up, in turn, depends on ambient temperature, humidity, general root absorptive capacity and, fundamentally, the overall constitution of the substrate in the pot.

Pagan

I would disagree about pumice vs perlite and nutrients. Perlite has a Cation Exchange Capacity (CEC) of around 3-4 meq/100g, while pumice has a CEC of around 9.9/100g (and possibly up to 73 depending on the research paper). So pumice > perlite for nutrient-holding ability.

As for acclimating succulents between indoors and outdoors, my strategy is to increase the amount of artificial light given to match the outdoor light. My measurement is PAR DLI and this methods allows for moving succulents between the two with minimal personal+plant stress.

My strategy is to open a large umbrella.

Asked : Does pumice hole nutrients better ?

Better in what way though ?... Does it hold more nutrients ? Kevin answers with indirect wording yes but also mentioned yes in the exchange rate. Does pumice hold those same nutrients longer ? ... Pumice cant hold what it doesn't have available in nutrients as it exchanges them at a better rate in comparison to perlite.

A succulent in a pumice free mix that also gets minimal times of sun transitioning ( ironicly ) as it doesn't require any hard direct sunlight.

I ask does a slow release nutrient source last longer/ work better in pumice or perlite ? If pumice where to hold and release nutrients better and/or longer wouldn't the suggested labeled feeding directions also be different in volume /and or frequency ?

Nice plants Nomen....Great help every one..I really appreciate this..I bookmarked it and will be ordering Pumice too...

Nomen - that's an interesting question and I'm not really sure the answer. For sure fertilizer instructions don't get into this detail because most people/users don't even bother to read the minimal instructions there in the first place.

Either way it is possible to slightly modify fertilization to optimize, if the grower cares to do so!

Mike: As long as you don't mind sifting and sorting for sizes I think you can find the same pumice that is also called drystall IMO a 50 pound bag has a decent use-able yield for a few dollars.

Kevin I imagine people do read but only understand words in the manner that they choose.

I am just stumbling on this feed now, thank you to EVERY SINGLE person in this feed that has ordered our product or represented the product honestly for us! I am so glad that you all are loving our pumice and I would absolutely LOVE to give you all a discount on your next order for the glowing recommendations and just in thanks for your return business! Next time any of you want to order just email me at Lexi@GlobalPumice.com beforehand and I will shoot you the discounted ordering information! Hope you all have a lovely week!

Best,

Lexi

www.GeneralPumiceProducts.com

I have grown many plants in pure pumice for many years at a stretch... i challenge anyone to do that with Perlite. Also, I often transfer my potted plants to the ground and perlite will all blow away in a matter of days, leaving a more dense mix behind. Pumice stays where it's put. Saying that, I prefer Scoria over both since white flecks in the soil is less ornamental that dark red or black soil, so Scoria is my favorite over both (though can be a bit too water retentive if dealing with super delicate succulents that rot easily)... at least as a garden mix. Potted it really makes little difference as I put top dressing on all potted plants- that keeps even perlite in place and makes the plant/pot presentation all that much nicer (plus holds moisture in a bit better).

Well, sheesh, you say that now, Lexi, after I already just posted an order!

Pagan

Palmbob, what size scoria do you use, and do you get it somewhere in particular? It varies so much. The stuff I can buy here is too large and not porous enough for me. It's meant as decorative landscape gravel.

Thanks, Lexi! (Also after I just stocked up with 3 bags...)

Yes, thanks! I just got my first order yesterday. I love how little dust there was with the product. With Perlite, no matter how much I sift and rinse, I still end up with too much fines.

Palmbob, you mentioned you've grown in pure pumice. I think I've also seen pics by hookilau of plants in pure pumice. How well does that work out and why would you choose to do that instead of mixing with grit?

Aw darn! So sorry guys lol but hopefully you'll order again in the future & can use the discount! My thanks for your reviews never expires, nor will your discount ;)

I have one cactus growing in 100% Pumice. Accidentally knocked it over a few months ago, and it has long, healthy, beautiful roots. When I keep it out in sunlight, I can water it with impunity.

Just an update for anyone following this thread who has purchased or wants to purchase General Pumice's product we have changed our website domain! It is now www.GeneralPumice.com ! Hope that's helpful!

It is! I'm still using your pumice, so many years later. =)

Me, too. I guess I never posted on this thread, but I was using it then and am still using it now :-)

Me too! I may not use a ton -- but when I want pumice, it's ALWAYS General Pumice Products I order from. Over the years, I have found the product CONSISTENT in size, low in dust. I no longer sift it, I just wash it and it's fine. I like perlite because it's light in weight -- BUT, living in FL, the humidity turns it a disgusting mustard color AND then it softens in the pot and breaks down, thereby defeating the purpose of porosity. I use pumice WITH SOIL, or with a gritty mix of Turface and Manna Pro....and I use pumice ALONE.