Plllog, your other posts are helping me learn a lot about all these new small appliances. My repairman also said "3 manufacturers"; who are they? The expensives KitchenAid (it even says Whirlpool inside) built in being replaced exhibits the same symptoms almost all other new microwave reviewers have: unit spontaneously turns on, sometimes won't turn off, push door latch hard to open. I fear a fire. I certainly do not want another unit doing the same thing. If I had an idea which of the mysterious 3 manufacturers performs consistently better, it would help narrow search.

Lily's mom, that Breville looks beautiful! But I'm reading complaints that the words on the buttons rub off, new unit breaks down, no response from Breville etc. Microwaves are a scary world :)

What are you looking to do with the micro? I don't prep meals with a microwave so I've always resented the space it took up on my counter. So when we renovated last month, I replaced the microwave with a convection microwave. It will still reheat, melt butter, and boil water - about all I use a micro for, but the thing taking up counter space will also bake, broil, convection bake, combo cook (micro and convection bake) and slim-fry (?). I didn't NEED the extra oven as I have dual 30" convection ovens, but the small oven is nice for smaller tasks and it's performed well so far. I have the Samsung MC12J8035CT ($388). That fits perfectly under my cabinets and has a fold down door, rather than swing out, which keeps it more compact (width wise) but still good capacity. Can't speak to the longevity but it's easy enough to use for my 12year old to bake a batch of muffins and heat hot chocolate.

I've never used a convection microwave but the idea is tempting if it truly works in practice. We don't have a second oven. But I've read where others said the microwave part worked but not the convection, and of course convection drives the price up. Our micro with trim kit was over $700 and to have it act dangerously after 3 /12 years is horrifying. My neighbor's built in bit the dust after 2 years. We do use the microwave function a lot; it's driving me crazy not having one. Seems like the last couple of years their reliability has plummeted.

5birdy - The two manufacturers are Sharp and Panasonic. GE used to also make MWs, but now I am not sure if they do any longer. Perhaps LG makes its own MWs, but again, not sure. Even if you buy for example a really expensive Wolf MW, it's made by Sharp, and just has the Wolf door on it.

Countertop MWs don't really have much life expectancy past 5 years or so, and depending on use, even 3 years. Don't spend a lot on a MW, and install it where it can be easily switched out.

M Miller, thank you so much! Just knowing these 2 brands will really help me narrow the search to see the differences. I thought GE made their own, but their reputation has recently nose dived "just like every other brand" so I think your hunch is correct. The labor alone for my reputable appliance repair person is $110 per device, so factor in parts and like you said, switching out makes more sense. (except if he could have fixed the original KitchenAid but they sold no parts. And he's a Whirlpool trained tekkie). Thanks to all on this fabulous forum!

I also heard that one of the Korean companies was making microwaves. Sharp and Panasonic for sure.

All microwaves degrade from the jump. The magnetron (is that what it's called? Too early for me..) degrades with use. Search the forum, and you'll get good explanations from Kas about this. Investing a ton of money in a microwave, therefore, doesn't make a lot of sense. OTOH, that part will last a heck of a lot longer than a few years, if you get a kitchen grade microwave (as opposed to a desktop cutsiepoo unit for which I have no data at all).

The thing that makes so many microwaves "disposable" is wear and tear. If you have family members who SLAM the door, PUNCH the buttons, etc., and constantly fiddle with it, starting and stopping and opening and closing, and just using it a lot for one mug of hot water, the box is going to wear out long before the magnetron. If you're nice to it, and use it a couple of times per day rather than all day long, it could last 20 years or more.

One of the things you can get with a more expensive unit, along with looks and snooty badge, is potentially a sturdier housing.

It is also potentially possible to have a built-in unit repaired (I can't imagine it being worthwhile to repair a freestanding unit). There are people who do microwave repairs and they do make replacement magnetrons. The only situation where that seems like a possible good idea, however, is when you have the beautiful built-in that matches your beautiful kitchen which still looks like new.

Re convection: The initial convection microwaves didn't work well as ovens, and also didn't meet the expectations of the buyers. That was before convection ovens themselves were well understood in the US. In the time I've been researching appliances and hanging out here (coming up on ten years), the general tone from users of them has gone from not worth the money to acceptable second oven. Again, I don't know if that's a change in quality or in user expectations. Convection ovens cook with circulated hot air. They do a good job roasting. Great for "cooking" or "baking" a casserole. Even baking a loaf of bread. For small things, like cookies, a lot depends on the pan, the cookie and whether or not it really wanted bottom heat. For most, it'll do an acceptable job. Some outliers really do better with a proper baking mode. Egg rising things like angel cakes and soufflés really don't like being blown about. If you can arrange the angle of the pan to the blower just right, it's possible, but still iffy. The heated air can also bounce off the surfaces in unexpected ways leading to uneven cooking/browning, contravening the evenness that you otherwise get from the movement of the air.

It's likely that there are still poor ones out there, especially at the lower end. There must also be good ones. Just familiarize yourself with the features and abilities of the unit, and use that to sift through the consumer reviews to know whether it was the oven or the user, and make your judgment from there.

Plllog, since you have amazing expertise, are you familiar with this strange symptom of the microwave turning on by itself? The magnetron in our built in (yes, beautiful and still matches kitchen) works but pushing the button to open and close makes crazy stuff happen inside. Made me so nervous I stopped using the unit. Now I'm reading similar strangeness in new models! Our repairman said something like there are 2 modes inside: the magnetron cooking mode and the other looks like it is cooking but is actually some kind of safety related thing to prevent overcooking (he has a strong accent so I didn't catch it all). He asked me "is it cooking when it goes on by itself?" and I laughed thinking I'm certainly not going to put my hand in to test.

I will warn my "sturdy" husband to go easy on the next model, and from your excellent description will pass on the convection option.

5birdy,

Thank-you. You flatter me. :) What I know is from the home cook's point of view, a lot of research and a lot of paying attention to what users are saying, mostly here, but also on other forums and in reviews, as well as talking to actual people. I think a lot of people who design, sell, maintain and even somewhat use appliances don't cook, or else just bumble through until it works without paying attention to how or why. I'm a how and why type. :)

I don't know about the turns itself on thing at all. Have never heard of it, nor of the "other" cooking for safety mode thing.

There are a couple of appliance repair experts in this forum. You might want to start a new thread with your issue in the title to attract their attention.