I hate to say this, but with Citrus you need some serious lighting...You can't skimp out and get cheap ones and use little electricity.. What you will get is a small amount of leaves that react to light while the whole rest of the tree suffers...You need lights that are strong enough to grow marijuana, vegetables and so on, therefore sold at hydroponic stores, and anything less will just cause issues including a host of pests to boot.

The best thing one can do before investing in lots of trees is to either make sure they have the room in sunny south facing windows, have STRONG over head and side to side lighting, use a greenhouse with sun from sunrise to sunset in winter, or set aside a room they can keep very cool with lower l;light levels...

I understand that many would love to get one of each of the thousands of citrus trees out there, since it is addictive, but unless you live in a climate where you can keep them outside all year long or plant them in ground,, you have to restrain yourself from buying more. I have not restrained myself but thank God I can keep them all in a much cooler area with lower light levels through the winter...On my porch..

Mike

I personally think it's a GREAT spot and that they should be just fine even if you had heat..But no heat would be better...I'm thinking the sun at it's lower angle in winter shines in through those windows most of the day? I think you will just be wasting your electricity since you might get minute growth, but mostly just a well lit room for your pleasure...Nothing can mimic the sunlight less its a very strong wattage for citrus trees and other southern region trees..

I will tell you though that those little lights and such do a good job at helping small potted plants, houseplants, and even succulents..It depends on the light needs of the plants and how close you stick them to the lights..It takes great skill to master which plants like low to high light verses which absolutely need high light)

Laura I meant to tell you that that is a beautiful room to by the way. Just rotate your trees and continually turn them around so that all sides get sunlight all winter and they should be fine

Great room Laura. They should be fine there.

Cory

Thanks Mike! I figure if I don't turn on the heat, the electricity I would have spent on heat will go towards the lights ;-). My kitchen area (second pic) actually gets better light than the sunroom, but both get decent light. I need to prune some bushes around the sunroom to let in more light. The rooms are a mess now, but I will clear out the smaller chairs and books to make more space along the windows.

Esmeralda, that's a nice window and it looks to get nice light. I would think a simple setup like mine may be enough, but I am NOT a lighting expert...this will be my first year with them also.

Esmeralda, that is a nice big window too. I think you will be ok if you do not have too many trees. Morning light is good. Can you keep it relatively cool there? I have High Output T5 lights in my basement where I keep my summer tropicals in the winter. Maybe you could hang a fixture with a couple of tubes above the window for additional light if it is needed. They are thinner and better looking then the old shop lights and the High Output T5s are pretty energy efficient. They come in single tubes and as many as 8 tubes. I have them in my greenhouse too. You want the High Output (HO) ones.

Cory

A four bulb, F 4 ft long High Output T5 fixture including bulbs is about $115. You just plug them into a regular outlet. You can also string some of them together with a tether wire/plug so you don't need as many house outlets to plug them into. Each 4 ft high output bulb is 54 watts.

Cory

You can't afford to grow citrus. Just being honest. If a $200 light and $20 a month is too much then you can't afford to grow citrus.

Esmeralda

Your window will do fine as long as you can provide mostly sunny days the entire cold season. A simple floor lamp with the light bulb Laura shows above should work fine.

My setups over the years

6b Steve Cincinnati, Oh

Thanks Steve. I bought that lightbulb from your link!

Steve - wondering whats the total combined wattage , its a great custom setup , getting the maximum utilization of each bulb .

That's key isn't it? 20 watt bulbs are small. But when your running 10 of them then it's still 200w.

I use 12 CFL's of 13 watts each on the first level to grow my organic beet greens. We got beet greens for every day in our salads and come spring I set the plants outside and had fresh beets very quickly. The savings in groceries payed for the electric.

The second floor had 8 CFL's of 23 watts each for my citrus trees and anything else I grew. The saving of not buying plant starts for spring payed for the electric and about 1/3 of my heating gas. The box pays off. Each individual bucket uses 23 watts each/tree.

My gas meter reading fee is $42/month $508/year. I burn close to $300 in gas and pay $150 for the transportation fee for that gas. It would be cheaper for me to turn the gas off and heat with CFL's over plants than to continue with gas heat. My wife said NO to this.

My goal is to get my trees big really fast under lights then kick them out of the house and into the ground with a glass cover for winter.

Esmeralda, just experiment and see how your trees do in your window. If they begin to look like they need more light add one at a time and see if that helps. It is also good to run a fan in the room near the plants. The air movement will help prevent insect pests, strengthen the trunks, prevent fungus, help the soil to dry out, etc. Don't give up. Take it slow, watch how your plants react, and think about how you may provide more of what they need. Don't freak out when you see the leaves start to drop when you bring them inside. That is typical. The trees will have to adapt to the lower light levels inside, lower humidity, stale air conditions. Move the trees gradually to more and deeper shade for several weeks before you expect to bring them inside to get them adapted to lower light levels. Test the soil wetness with a thin dowel stick pushed into the soil near the side of pot...same as you do outside...and check if the stick is cool and damp. Get used to lifting the pot to know how heavy it is when just watered and also when it is dry and needs water. When new growers see the leaves yellow and drop off when they first are brought in they usually panic and provide water, when it is lower light levels and not moisture that is the cause of the problem. It takes a few weeks to adapt to being brought inside, and the problems usually take almost a week to begin to show up. It usually helps if you can open some windows in the room to also help it gradually adapt to the lower humidity levels inside at first. Citrus fortunately don't need high humidity to survive indoors though. The observation and learning are all part of the fun. Best wishes for you and your trees. The fragrant blossoms will make it all worthwhile.

Cory

Esmeralda - Cory gave some great pointers , am sure soon enuf someone will start a winter prep thread as well . Key points that Cory already stated is basically you are slowly acclimatizing the plants to the climate inside and getting them off active growth state - so put it in shade ( sun n shade to deeper shade ) for few weeks , reduce fertilization , spray with Fish Emulsion/Insecticidal soap/Neem Oil before bringing them in if you dont already spray

I put a standing fan on rotation to circulate air + Humidifier, also prepare for pests there will some kind or the other to deal with ( white flies , aphids , scales ) . get a sprayer , insecticidal soap , FE ( if u r ok with the smell inside ) or Neem Oil Or Pyrethrin/Malathion ( these I dont use on edible/friuting plants).

65F is like active growing temp , lower the temperature lower the light requirements . Mine is at 60F and I see all the plants flush out new growth n flowers in winter .

That's Cory! Very kind and full of great ideas...I love her approach in the last post and you should give it a try...Try one light on one tree if your windows are not good enough....

Syteve, how much do you pay per per kilowatt? Mine here is 10 cents..All I did was run two space heater once in a while a month all winter and my bill went up from a usual 90 dollars a month to 300 in November alone and that without extra light..Arg. I may have to shut down my greenhouse if it goes up anymore or unless I save money ahead of time.

Esmeralda, the ceiling fan will be great. Citrus will go semi-dormant under about 55°F. At 65°F they will keep growing. The thing that you will need to watch for is that if the soil in the pot, and thus the roots get below 55° at night and the leaves are in direct sun early in the morning, the roots will be semi-dormant and not be able to take up moisture to bring up to the leaves that are starting to photosynthesis in the sunlight causing them to heat up and need water. You will see the leaves wilt if this is happening. This can easily happen if the pot itself is below the windowsill or cools down next to a window pane where it is usually cooler. If you see that happen just move the leaves out of the direct light or shade it with a sheer curtain until the base soil heats up to above 55°. That is why Mike grows his in a cooler room with indirect light to keep the top and bottom of the tree more balanced.

Cory

Oh ya thats another worry ,soil temp vs air temp . I use a room thermometer/Hygrometer and a soil sensor with temp n moisture reading . Dont fret we all love to fuss about our Citruses :)

Also thats why in winter I water with luke warm ( really mild ) water but not the direct cold water tap water

Esmeralda and Laura, I have to tell you that I have kept my citrus in a room with one standard west facing and one north facing window ; my thermostat is set at 66 daytime and 63 at night but that upstairs room runs cooler (old house). They survived just fine with no supplemental lights. I did take the time to adapt them to lower light conditions before bringing them in. Maybe that was beginner's luck but it worked for 2 winters.

Now I have a room with a full south window, same temperature conditions, and in front of that window they will actually put on growth and blossom. I water every 7-10 days with tepid water and feed lightly with some foliage pro about every month.

Esmeralda, you are farther north so you probably won't get as much light into your east window as I did from the west (but on the other hand with the bay you will get more light through the day) but still you should be able to get them through the winter, especially if you add a light.

I spray mine down well with water, then neem before bringing them in, and keep the insecticide made with botanical oils (rosemary etc) handy for any signs of insects while inside.

I forgot that 'rosemary oil/ works!!!! Thanks for that reminder Raee.....)

I have not had to use it for a while but when I did, it worked awesome!

You are right, further north not inly do we have shorter days, but if we get more sunny days than cloudy dark ones, we are lucky)

Esmeralda, your trees will be fine and we will help you along the way. Raee, thanks for the encouragement. I also have over wintered my two largest citrus (a Meyer lemon and Persian lime) along with a guava for four years without any artificial lighting. I have big east/south Windows, and that has been enough...barely. My concern this year is that my collection has grown substantially this year ;-). Because of that, they will not all have prime window space. That is why I have invested in the lights. It will be a new experience for me and I will need to play with it to make sure I get it right.

Yes, I am with everyone that they will be fine...Like I said, unless you can harness all the light right onto the tree on all side very close to one tree, never mind all of them, and unless you can use a 300 watt or higher bulb that lights the whole room up like daylight, you will be wasting your money...

You see, certain tree and plants require very high light to put on health growth and like trying to grow mango tree under a cheap light is impossible , so is growing a citrus tree....

Shop light and florescent bulbs bought at Lowes just won't do, but the florescent high output lights you buy at a hydroponics store would be your best best....BUt then there is the cost of running lights, even if you used a 100 watt bulb. It can be expensive..

Your best bet would be to stick your tree into a sunny window that gets sunlight most of the day in winter and keeping temps cool..If you had one tree that you rotated every week or so in a south facing window, I believe it would do very well even if your temps were very warm..But trees sharing the same window competing for sunlight are hard to keep healthy in warmer temps..

I am in a similar situation as Laura. I have had two 5 foot tall citrus, a 5 ft jasmine and 3 ft key lime sharing two 36 inch wide windows facing south. They did not't all fit in front of the windows. Since last winter, I have accumulated a lot more trees and now need to put trees in other places and provide supplemental lighting.

if you do, make sure you invest in good lighting that is cost effective, not something Lowe's and Home Depot are familiar with . A Hypronics store can provide a good light set up and give you much advice....You can also find some on Amazon and get reviews on their efficiency before spending your money or wasting electricity.....Good strong lights that don't cost much to run, usually with a ballast should do ok...

Also, make sure to set your lights no higher than a foot or two above the canopy and rotate them frequently. If you buy reflectors atet send light back to the side of your trees, even better.....

Be prepared for pests and weaker growth than you would get in spring, summer, and fall outdoors, that is susceptible to spider miss and scale....Keep your growing area very clean and the leaves clean by spraying a natural soapy water once every week or two...Use a fan for air movement if you can )

Also , if you use lights, you might want to invest in a timer with two settings...One that turns your lights on before sunrise until the sun is on your trees, and one that turns back on after the sun has left your tress till as long as you want after sundown..

I use to set mine to go on at 5 a.m and off at 9 a.m. Then back on at 3 p.m. until 10 p.m. This kept my trees actively growing using a 600 watt bulb...

Let the experts chime in here....

Not sure..Never used anything but the best. I am curious to see what others say)

Mike,do you use any supplemental lighting and if so what kind?

Esmeralda I use that type of bulb in all the setups pictured above.

not very much. Any heat produced by your bulb will be heat that your furnace won't have to deliver but electric heat is 2 to 3 time more expensive than natural gas heat.

What do you think about this type of full spectrum self-ballasted lamp?

Used one like this last winter (26 W) for 4 trees (+/- 9²feet), provides +/- 4000 lumens + 6500 K. Minimal UVB emission and no exagerate growth, no pests that I can remember of. Kept daytime temp at 65F with night-time temps around 60F. No heat emission so you can bring it really close to your trees.

I plan to use it once again this year. All this for 20 USD/lamp.

Michael (zone 8)

All this talk of 'light'..I would love a few complete threads dedicated just on the effects and outcomes every one has each month starting in December..A thread for December, January, and February, the coldest and darkest months of the year and the truth too..Whether anyone had pests, spindly growth,m growth at all, leaf loss, death, and so on, and most importantly, your set up and how much natural 'sunlight' your trees are getting..I think it would help many here.......Is that possible?

If there were down sides and upsides?

I will even get them started at the beginning of each month so we can follow everyone..

I would love to see what everyone experiences since the only issues I have ever had were.....A high electric bill, pests and spindly growth.........

I wish you all the BEST of luck, all who have decided to use supplemental lights..

Mike

Start those threads Mike! That will be great info and I will be happy to contribute!

Michael Unless you use that bulb in a reflective chamber most of the light will miss your trees.

Mike, you might as well start that thread now. I bet some of us are seeing curled leaves on the new tender growth if trees are outdoors yet, which trees are blooming again or sending out a new flush of leaves, those that are bringing in plants may be seeing leaf drop, did they get all the bugs with their spraying regime, hoe is their mix holding up inside, how much water are they needing to supply, which trees fruit are ripening, etc? There are lots of changes going on right now. A month by month review would be interesting. It would be good to start with how September went.

Cory

michael_c1977

That bulb is not capable of putting out 4000 lumen. There must be a miss print on the advertisement. A 23 watt CFL only puts out 1700 lumen at that Kelvin range. I do not believe that the best LED bulbs of that power have that high of lumen to watt level. Could you check the specs again.

6b Steve

Hi Steve,

It is indeed something that made me buy this lamp, the high lumen output claim, and never really looked into it, as I only have some (very) general knowledge about this. I'll get back to you after I find the box of the lamp.

Michael (zone 8)

Actually Cory, what you mentioned in your thread above about winter leaf fall seems to be the common belief among most people. However, I don't believe any of those common corrections have much to do with why citrus leaves fall during the winter months when the trees are brought indoors. There has been extensive research in Israel over the last several years to locate the cause. If I remember correctly, no where in the research was any of those measures even mentioned. However, Israel's research did pretty much find the cause and solution. Silica

Silica What was the cause and the solution.