Another wash out ran. More young fescue pushed into the soil, probably never to rise again.

Can't wait to seed again...next fall. :-P

Still plenty of time to fix it, fescue only takes 4-5 days to germinate. Maybe put down a bag of Headway G at seeding time for insurance.

You have time to replant if necessary. Why don't you wait to see what a few days of sunshine will do? Your grass might recover and you don't want to add so much seed that it's too thick. I overseeded 9/12 and the new grass popped up this week, will probably need cutting in another week. I used the same seed as you (from Pleasants). Are you sure you had grubs? Did you dig up a square foot and count them? I have little mounds, but they are from earthworms coming up in the damp ground (from the daily watering, before this week of rain). I get them each time I plant seed and do the light frequent watering. Seed has plenty of energy to get going without nitrogen. Save it for October since you have already done starter fertilizer in September.

Thanks folks.

In the really dead areas, I used a manual plugged to loosen up some of the top soil. Probably about 1000sqft.

I also spread about 10lbs of more seed across the 4.5k-5k lawn, focusing mostly on the dead areas that I plugged (about 5lbs) but I spread the other 5 lbs acros abiut 3k to covet the rest for good measure.

I also applied some 10-0-20 from Jonathan Green because I wanted to give a light feeding of nitrogen and but mostly for the potassium to help the turf strengthen and recover from all the abuse.

Lastly, I applied Heritage G. I found a 30lb bag at Southern States. I applied it @ the 4lb/1k rate across the lawn. I have about half a bag left if I need it in the late spring next year.

Hopefully, this will help protect the seeds when they emerge and also protect the seedlings thst already germinated. I really want this renovation to work but this might be the last time I try to rescue it. I'm tapped out of energy.

The disease continues to spread despite the propicanazole (sp?) from the Bayer Advanced last week and the Heritage G this week. About 1/3 of the lawn is dead or in sorry shape. The rest of it is "alive" but is very sickly looking. The only things that look healthy are the TTTF that I accidently broadcasted into the flower bed.

The soil is completely saturated and waterlogged. There are mucky areas that are black and/or green. What isn't dying from disease will surely die from rot from lack of oxygen.

It has rained at night for the past two days and also some today. It will rain for the rest of the week, according to WeatherUnderground. Tomorrow they project about 0.95" of rain, Thursday about 0.88" of rain, and some drizzling action on Friday. The rest of the days to come will be cloudy with chances of rain.

Even if the seeding that I did on Sunday to repair the worst areas were to not float away, I'm sure the Heritage G would have been washed out of the area long before the roots would be able to absorb it.

I wish I had started just a week or two later than I did. I didn't do my backyard until early September this year and it is turning out better than ever. And I didn't even do any preparation there!

I'm so depressed right now. I killed off my Scotts/Pennington/unknown lawn that looked great because I wanted a uniform lawn grown from superior seed.

The leaves will be falling soon, pretty much signaling the end of the planting season. I'm half tempted to till everything up just to dry it out and throw down some Scotts Turf Builder Seed or something like that before it gets too late in the season to plant anything. :-(

That's depressing. Too much rain. I wish more if it had come my way instead.

I just came back from inspecting the lawn w/ a flashlight, and to my surprise I found several of these little dudes eating the grass.. I also saw some even smaller ones that were green.

I think this might be part of the problem I'm having. I tried to ID what this is and it seems like it's a fall armyworm?

I actually was inspecting a blade of grass that was dying and saw one of them on the next plant. It was very small, like the size of the tip of a sharpened pencil. Once I noticed it, I walked to different areas along the perimeter of the yard and saw several more. Some green, and some this darker color.

Someone talk me out of getting an insecticide. I'm desperate to save this lawn renovation. I've broken all my normal, organic rules thus far. Grub killer and fungicide have never been used in my property until this month.

:-P

Did you only treat the backyard for grubs earlier?

Maybe you could meet with a county extension agent to get some advice. They may have some resources through VA Tech that could help identify your problems so you can find an effective solution. Don't despair. October is a good month for growing grass. We usually don't have frost until late in the month. Fescue will germinate in a week or two. Don't till. You especially shouldn't till wet soil.

I treated the back first. After the holocaust of what seemed like thousands, I did the treatment to the front. There were many but it was hard to get a good feel because I didn't want to walk on the lawn.

Right now I'm watching the yard get flooded and all the seeds washing away in this wall of water dropping from the sky.

We got the same storm plus half inch hail. I got another bag of KBG. Third time's the charm?

Maybe the hail coming down will help hold some of the seeds in place. :-P

I don't suppose there is any chance that the Heritage G will have survived this flood? :-P

Good chance. It releases with hardly any moisture, so the first time you watered after applying it should have gotten into the soil. The bag says even morning dew can do it. Plus the grass plants themselves should have taken some product up, since it is systemic. It may take a while to fully see the effects (being hopeful for you but it also seems reasonable).

Maybe we can scratch the fescue/bluegrass plans and plant some rice instead.

I'm thinking that chickweed and clover for winter is sounding pretty nice, and maybe some crabgrass, spurge and lespedeza for the summer. Why spend hundreds of dollars when you can get indestructible plants for free?

Wow yesterday's total rain was 5.08 inches. It didn't start until 5pm. That only includes the rainfall through midnight. Looks like is going to be another flood today.

I did an inspection this morning and I don't see any seed at all. There was literally a river running through the yard so I'm sure it all got carried away. Most of the areas heavily impacted by the "river" are showing bare sand/clay... all the compost and other OM seems to have been carried away.

Not quite sure what to do. I know it needs about a week to dry out before I should walk on the area to avoid compaction. However, time is running short.

Anyone think that a third reseeding effort is in order? Followed by some compost?

The source of the river that was flowing over the sidewalk? All the east from the (higher elevated) backyard pouring around the side if the house.

I actually saw a grub riding one oak leaf down the river last night. Pretty sure he was drinking a beer.

Ha, at least you have your humor still. I guess just wait for the floods to recede, and then check the 10 day outlook and historical temperatures to see if you should go a round three.

Also, dchall posted recently about BT worm killer if you want to try an organic grub killer option. I googled it after I saw his post. I think you are supposed to apply at dusk and when it is not supposed to rain (ugh), since it breaks down in sunlight and is easily washed off the grass.

Wow, so sorry guys. Unbelievable bad weather, that hail is nuts! We actually got hit by an epic flood the day after I finished laying my celebration sod--I was running around in my work clothes at 7am sweating like crazy in the heat, pushing landscape pins into the sod to keep it all from floating away. Not to be negative & feel free to dismiss the question, but you guys are in a position to provide the best answer to this: Do you believe at this point that it would have been roughly the same overall cost to lay sod rather than seed? Obviously if mother nature had cooperated the answer may vary...

Do you believe at this point that it would have been roughly the same overall cost to lay sod rather than seed?

Good question. My cost so far for the 3k sq ft in the front:

- 25# of Rhambler fescue - $90

- 10# of KBG -$68

- Water - ~$150

- Fertilizer - ~$25

- Peat Moss - $10

- Fungicide- ~$20

- Cost of reseeding, again - ~$150

So probably about $500 total when it's all said and done. Double what it should have been. I don't know how much sod costs around here.

I put down bluegrass seed last Thursday, so I'm going to wait until Saturday to see what happens, it normally takes 7 days to germinate. If I see nothing I'll probably seed some fescue, time is running out. Or maybe some PRG.

I don't know how long it has been @ 6 and if it overflowed at all. I spilled some off the top when i adjusted it (it was leaning a little)

The grass surrounding it was the infamous "landed in the flower bed" seed. It is actually doing quite well despite my constant stomping on it to check the actual yard beyond the rocks.

It flooded again today. Some areas are extremely mucky, mainly the lower elevated areas near the road. Black and gooey. However, the turf there is doing great.

The higher elevated areas along the sidewalk and driveway, however, have eroded to hell. Looks like just one big sand dune. However, the drainage seems fine and the turf that didn't get killed from disease in mid-September or wasn't washed away in the 4-5 floods is doing well. Thinking of just adding more seed there to thicken things up.

The biggest trouble area is the middle of the flooded side of the yard. All of the stuff that eroded from the higher elevated portions seems to have washed into there. It's clearly a low point and isn't draining well to the lower portion. This area is 100% mucky and almost everything there has drowned.

I think my only option here will be to rake away the silt/muck, use a thatch rake to loosen the top layer of soil, raise the elevation enough to support proper drainage, and then reseed.

This week, we've had 8 inches of rain or so. Not accounting for the rain today. And yes, the river came back with a vengeance and flooded the yard get again Another thunderstorm incoming tonight

Questions for the group:

Am I out of line in thinking that I could go ahead and apply a starter fertilizer? I did put a 10-0-20 down last weekend, but i don't see how any of that has survived all this rain.

You used a starter fertilizer with Tenacity on 9/13. What does your bag say about subsequent applications? Does it say wait such and such weeks? The instructions for liquid Tenacity say to wait until 30 days after germination or after two mowings (whichever is longer) before making another application. Seed is quite capable of germinating and growing without any fertilizer at all. If you put more fertilizer down now it will spur growth of the existing grass at a time when you don't want to mow and when you want seedlings to have light. I suggest waiting for the soil to dry enough so you can do a mowing, put more seed down where needed, then hope Hurricane Matthew doesn't come this way. Next week is supposed to be dry.

HOLD THE PHONE!

I was creeping out my neighbors tonight with my flashlight as I was inspecting the yard. And the seed I spread last Sunday is germinating!!

Woot! Maybe I'll hold off on doing anything until next weekend.

I did end up seeing about 10 or so small little caterpillars munching on the leaves,and another large brown/black one as well. :-p. Not sure if they are a problem or just an annoyance. I'll keep an eye on this.

Great news, keep the faith! If all else fails you can always fill in the gaps with fast rye & work on those spots come springtime, right? Or is that not a thing?

It's a thing. I actually have an area on the other side of the driveway that I've never done anything with since moving in. Lesoedeza takes over in the summer (when there's enough of it, it looks nice and it actually crowds out crabgrass). It's usually barren in the winter.

A couple weeks ago, I put a couple bags of Scott's Quick Fix Mix --- which is mostly annual rye. I'm hoping that ryegrass will serve as a good winter cover, sending down some roots into the soil and helping add organic matter. I'll probably do this for a couple years with just annual rye. Eventually, I think it will help develop the soil to support something more desirable.

Most of it took off great but the floods pushed it all down. I tried blowing and raking it up. Today, I even tried to mow it. It is still laying over but it looks entirely healthy lol. If it dies oh well it was $6.00. :-P

Things are looking up. The Turf I planted back in August is looking a little stronger. The seed I put down last Sunday is sprouting across the board.

I did decide to correct the low point/drainage issue this weekend. I know, I know. But it was driving me nuts. I'm OCD. I used Scotts Lawn Soil to raise the area, spread it with a rake, and applied some seed.

In other news, I'm fairly certain the insects I've been spotting are becoming a real problem. I killed about 5 half-inch ones today. They had the Y mark on their forehead, which I believe is the distinctive make of the Fall Armyworm. I've also found dozens of small, pencil-tip sized ones munching on the grass.

Moreover, as I was cleaning out the area to spread soil yesterday, I noticed dozens of them under the fall leaves near that tree in the center of the yard. A lot of the TTTF plants look scalped.

Its getting kind of late in the season for insect control, but I absolutely refuse to let this renovation fail. I've dealt with heat, humidity, sprinkler failure, grubs, moles, fungus, flooding, and squirrels digging. I am not about to let some pesky caterpillars stop this from being beautiful.

Anyone have experience with fall armyworms? I don't want to use the nuclear option, but I will if it means sacrificing this extremely stressful renovation.

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/portals/our_offices/parishes/evangeline/features/agriculture/fallarmyworminvasioninpastures

I think that article mentions the bacteria I mentioned above. Seems like a surgical strike, not at all nuclear.

Meanwhile I am seeing a lot of lawn moths myself...

Update photos:

Things are "recovering" from all the washouts. It seems every time I put down seed, another "flood" event occurs.

Debating my next steps.

This side of the yard always gets washed out. Not sure if it needs to be fed or not. Growth is stunted on the plants that have survived since the original August seeddown The other plants that have germinated from the various post-flood overseeds are growing at a snails pace.

The rest of the lawn is "decent" and TBH looks better in real life than what these photos will show. However, the plants themselves have been cut at 3.5 inches today Most of them are very weak and soft. I'm debating doing another cut in a couple of days, reducing the HOC to 3 inches.

I have found it helps to keep it a little shorter than usual when they're in that stage - about 2.5". Keeps them from bending over and getting pounded into the ground by a rain.Give it time, it will start to tiller and thicken.

Updates from today:

Things are on track again. I've cut it down to 3" and will maintain that height for the rest of the season. There are some broadleaf plants starting to dig in. I'll deal with them soon enough. I want to get at least 3 more mows in before I do any herbicide.

I've done two very light feedings of 0.2 lb nitrogen from Scotts Winterguard two weeks in a row. Just enough to keep the older plants happy while also providing ample nitrogen to the younger plants. I will do this two more times (this week and next), and then hit it will a full pound per 1k in November.

Yes I need to ,ouch tha bed

Hi, great post. I admire your tenacity! :)

I have a similar story, although lesser in scope and ambition: I overseeded and reseeded my mutt lawn in September, zone 4/5. Then a huge storm came, likely washed out some seed, so new growth was dense in places and patchy in others. Not knowing how much seed had been washed out, I panicked and kept throwing new seed every few days for about a month. The result now is a mixture of some very tall new grass, along with some tiny seedlings, and everything in between. I haven't mowed yet, afraid the mower will harm the little ones, although the big ones clearly need it. Seems you also had very young seedlings coexist with older, taller ones. When did you find it was safe to mow without damaging them? Also, your experience if and when it was safe to apply broadleaf herbicide on the weeds that inevitably emerge due to frequent watering, without harming the seedlings?

again, great post and useful for the rest of us to learn.

Set your mower height to be above the young ones and you should be OK. What you want to avoid is the blade clipping them now before they have solid roots. That's could yank em out, I guess. I'd be less concerned with walking on it / the mower wheels. Even the youngest should bounce back up in a day or two. Just dont now it when it's wet.

I havent applied any herbicides yet, other than the Starter Fert that had tenacity in it. Looking back, that may have been applied too prematurely. I probably should have waited a week or two longer.

My herbicide plan will be to ride through October without applying anything. My soil and the turf have been stressed enough. 3 more mows should bring me into November, and I will assess the situation.

I'm hoping the nitrogen schedule and mowing HOC will help the the TTTF produce tillars that will choke out or retard the weeds. If not, I'll spot treat with an appropriate herbicide.

Updates:

10/22

- I mowed at 3"

- Remeasured the lawn area, which seems to be closer to 3,800 ft2.

- Applied the remaining bag of Scotts Winterguard (about 3/5 of the bag). This is about 7.5 lbs of product, which comes to 2.4lbs of N. (7.5 x 0.32). So, that's about 0.68 lb N per 1000 ft2.

The side of the lawn that was giving me problems before seems to have absolutely loved that N.

Fall has now arrived, with temps in 70s at day and 50s at night forecasted for the next 10 days. I'll probably drop a couple more feedings at the 0.5lb N/1k in November, cut at least two more times, and start thinking about some broadleaf killer to take care of some winter annuals (chickweed) that

Just a heads up, WBG CCO @ 1oz/gal injured some of my younger fescue (~30 days).

Looks good!

Was a little nervous for Halloween. The flooded out area is JUST starting to get established. The wife and I put the fire it in the driveway and handed out candy there. For the most part, this worked...except for the overly eager parents who tramped right through the lawn, not noticing us at the driveway (meanwhile, the kids did... most didn't even enter the lawn).

Overall, things didn't seem to get too bad when I checked it out today Might need a couple days to see if anything was ripped out of its roots, etc.

"Post Halloween Trampling" photos from today:

Ermmm ... still haven't pulled the trigger on weed killer yet. Got something like speedwell or henbit really making some dinner-sized plates out there.

Mine more cut and then I'm doing it.

No worries, some water, a little bit of fertilizer and it will bounce back from traffic. Looks amazing considering what you've been through. Goes to show perseverance pays off.

Herbicide went down on Friday Via pump sprayer. Used Ortho Weed B Gon Max w/ Crabgrass Control. Not worried about crabgrass, but it was what I had in the shed. 2-4D, Dicamba and Quinclorac. Today, there is a significant difference in terms of the weed life. It's starting to look weak; I think it will start to wilt and die this coming week.

Any concerns with mulch mowing post-herbicide? Or would it make more sense to bag?

No concerns, keep on mulching.

I'm going to call this renovation a success.

Pics from yesterday, 11-20:

I am abdolutely pleased with Raptor III, Titanium LS, and Firecracker SLS.

Thank you, everyone, for your input and assistance!

I can't wait to see how this will look in the spring!

Looking good! It will be like carpet once it starts to tiller and mature. I'd highly recommend preventive fungicide late spring and through summer.

Almost a year later... how am I doing? Not too bad!

Coming off a month or so of upper 90s and humidity.

These pictures were taken today.

The TTTF is loving the summer sun almost as much as the lillies.

Might me time to sharpen the mower blades...

That's my lawn making my neighbors fence look bad heh.

Home sweet home. Now that I am looking at it, that little tree near the second front door is looking a little sickly. if you recall, this is the spot that gave me so much trouble last fall. The floods (plural!), the grubs and the fungus.... but it's all good now. I did have to hit it with Heritage and Propicanazole earlier this summer to take out some wild fungus. I feared it was Pythium, but my fear are misplaced. (Note: There is actually a really bad spot in the middle here, but you can't see it in the photo. My wife can't even see it in person so maybe it doesn't exist and I'm just going crazy...)

Looking good! One more month to go.

wow Props to you for really sticking to it!! looks fantastic, you and J4c11 amaze me ;)

Wow I wish I had a lawn like yours. But regardless your lawn before your renovation looked great too. I wish I had patience like you do :).

1st Prize!

I just re-read this whole thread again.

Between yours and jc's reno's, I've learned so much....especially how to be patient.

Thanks to all of you.