Realistic cabinet estimate
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7 years ago
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Nichole P
7 years agoNichole P
7 years agoRelated Discussions
Realistic cooling degree days estimate for Saratoga CA??
Comments (3)NOTE: In two nearby cities for which I have good data, the mean temperature RISE over the last 40 years is +2.4 to +2.5 deg F (not even including the hot years of 2007-2008). Â Â Lawrence, CA (slope +0.0916 deg/year) Â Â Fresno, CA Â Â Â (slope +0.0635 deg F/year) From the United States Historical Climatology Network (USHCN) dataset, posted (wry chuckle) on CO2science.org, a web site that tries to show that global warming is a myth. PS. It's a great web site! I've used their fine graphs from the USHCN temperature dataset to demonstrate just the opposite to a science class, in a unit on global warming. .... but it is pushing me to build a house that's tight, energy-efficient, CO2 minimal,... and sized for the likely much longer, hotter heat waves in the next decade(s). Here is a link that might be useful: CO2Science.org USHCN Trend Calculations -- California...See MoreHELP: is this a realistic estimate for radiant floor & geothermal
Comments (7)What a timely question. Just this week we submitted a proposal for a 10-ton system using 2- 5-ton Nordic EMDX units or 2-EMW, depending on whether the system will be open loop or DX. I would say your quote does sound high, however, I would not condemn this quote without speaking to your contractor. HereÂs what I would suggest. YouÂre definitely on the right track with the Nordic EMDX unit for all the reasons you already seem to know. Namely a solid reputation for building high-end products and having everything already built and installed in one ÂboxÂ. Keep in mind that these are large and heavy units to install. Be sure your installers can Âget them inÂ. Another reason youÂre on to something is that this (DX) unit will require 300-feet of drilling  total (3-100 foot boreholes), à 3-inches, instead of à 6-inches. ThatÂs a difference of 600 feet of drilling - and a lot less debris to deal with! In our case, because of the drill rig we use, we are able to drill boreholes for DX systems on a 30° off axis angle, in a radial pattern. What this means is that at the surface the borefield resembles the apex of a pyramid and then spreads out the further into the earth it goes. This technique allows us to drill quite close to the envelope we are space-conditioning (taking up very little real estate!) and requires very little trenching. In many cases trenching is done by one person with a pick and shovel, without having to use a mechanical excavator. I would suggest seeing whether this is a possibility for your installation as conventional geothermal (liquid/HDPE) and drilling techniques may otherwise result in your property resembling World War I France at Vimy Ridge before all is completed. You quote was for 300-ft boreholes per ton. ThatÂs rather a lot by almost any standard. What are your ground conditions like; do you have veins of water flowing through or a high water table (it doesnÂt sound like it)? Anyway, I hope this helps. SR...See MoreCan you ask cabinet people to itemize their estimate?
Comments (16)circuspeanut- unfortunately it is not usually as simple as push a button and out pops a price. Most of the time pricing is done by hand. On a good day with a mfg website which doesn't export to anything worhtwhile, occasionally for some lines at some dealers you can push a button. That is rare. I was wondering what can I say that is useful here. Few things come to mind. Deedles says "what's the deal with the kitchen cabbinet business" and that goes to one issue. For many of us this is the kitchen design business NOT the cabinet business. Design is included- it is not free and a lot of the general public does not respect that it has a cost to the designer and is their property. Another issue is how designers get paid. Typically a percentage of the profit, not a percentage of the sale. If you profit margin goes below a certain point your commission drops markedly. If the margin drops low enough you don't get paid at all on a job. KDs are not accountants, writers, they rarely start out as salespeople. Most come from some sort of art background. Have any artist friends? How are they with computers, schedules, spreadsheets.... KD's are almost always worried about screwing up the price and or some detail on the order. Every one I know tells stories of waking up at 3 am in a cold sweat over something they may or may not have missed. Add to that the fact that you can't usually just punch a button to get a price and the KD is worrying about getting paid. Now at a box store they CAN punch a button. That has been set up on a remote server by an IT department. Back to the cabinet versus design business. IF you want to shop only price, or mainly price. Go in with a complete plan, bring the same one to each place, list the details, accessories, doorstyle finish etc. Tell them how you want some of the details finished. For that you should be able to get a listing of "this is what it will cost for what you are asking for" If not well walk away. Note that if you change just a few things in that plan, suddenly the brand of cabinet that was the most expensive could become the one that is the least. That is the cabinet business. OTOH if you want someone to do a layout, present ideas, solve problems, try to meet a budget, help with selection. Then you are not looking for someone in the cabinet business, you are looking for someone in the kitchen design business. That person will have invested at the very least half a day in your job just to get rough pricing, understand what the issues in your kitchen are and have an idea how to meet the budget. I typically put in more time than that between the first hello and the first desing meeting. To give you a list at that point is to give you my work for free. Why would that be a problem? Isn't that part of my job? There are dealers around who specialize in poaching. Take a layout or a list and lowball it for a quick sale since they don't have to invest any time. Last thing and no one will like this but don't shoot the messenger please. I have limited resources to work. I have a life besides work. Where I used to work, with office support and sales support I could work with say 65-75 people a year and be selling about 40% of those. Nowadays (on my own) I can work with far fewer people. I've also had a run of larger and more complicated projects- multiple rooms in a house, bigger kitchens, more details. I sell a much higher percentage than I used to but have time for less people. Every KD has some limit on their time to deal with customers. Every KD has had to learn how to be a sales person of some sort, and they get a sense of what kind of jobs are going to close. IOW who will be the customers that make it possible for them to get paid. Hard core price shoppers are the ones with the lowest closing rate. It is generally thought that they will end up buying when they run out of time. I'm not saying they will conciously disregard you. It is human nature to invest more in what appears to be likely reward than in what appears to not be. Just because you are doing a kitchen doesn't mean that your going to buy from me. As I said, once on retainer I will provide a list for anyone who wants, they rarely do. On occasion, I have given a list to someone ahead of time. That has been when I guage that they are decent folks, I stand a good chance of getting the job, they are honestly looking for more than just a bunch of boxes, and I don't have tons of time invested into solving problems that I know the poacher couldn't solve. Even then once that list is given out I mentally cross them off the potential client list. If they come back that is nice but I do not expect it. And note that I have possibly the lowest profit margin in my region- I just don't advertise it. On our end it comes down to what you are looking to buy, cabinets or our service. If you are talking to a serious KD they sell service accompanied by cabinets....See Morecomparing estimates for kitchen cabinets
Comments (21)Jaykaym, There are a number of terms which have been misapplied. I'm not picking on you, but it's worth clarifying them for the benefit of others reading this post. A "bid" is an offer to satisfy the requirements outlined in plans and specifications for a particular price. In residential construction, bidders are provided with a uniform set of plans and specifications in an effort to achieve the ever-elusive "apples-to-apples" comparison. In this case, there was no uniform set of plans or specifications provided for the purpose of competitive bidding. The specifications were vague: You asked for "better than the bottom-of-the-line cabinets" and "good hardware." It's not surprising that pricing is all over the place. An "estimate" is an inference of what something is likely to cost when there are unknowns due to either incomplete plans and specifications, selections which have yet to be made or hidden conditions. You might get an "estimate" of the cost to drill a well because the depth is unknown. You shouldn't be purchasing products like cabinets based on an "estimate" because the selling price should be known and fixed. A "proposal" is an offer to provide a particular product or service. It may or may not satisfy the requirements outlined in plans and specifications. It's different from a "bid." You got a variety of proposals from various dealers/contractors to provide cabinetry at various prices. You did not get estimates and you did not get bids. I think you'll be better served--and the various dealers/contractor less frustrated--if you turn the question around from "how much for this?" to "I have a budget range of x to y. What can you offer in that budget range? " Alternatively, you can provide a uniform set of plans and specifications for competitive bidding....See Moreherbflavor
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