Jude the Obscure is a rose I wouldn't be without. And the fragrance is amazing! Unlike any other. Beautiful and vigorous. Takes a few years to get going.

SDLM is not a real stand out here but I am going to move her to morning sun only. When she is good she is GOOD but most of the time she is MEH. I forgive her tho.

Susan

I grow JtO in a pot... I am inland SoCal.. I only grow fragrant roses. JtO is very fragrant for me, its proven to withstand the heat as long as i keep the soil moist. Right now my JtO is being attacked by chili thrips. Below are some pictures of JtO in the spring. I love the flower form and will be adding another one to my garden at some point.

I've grown Jude for 12 years in an area that has very hot and dry summer conditions (semi arid desert). I've done some re-evaluation of Jude over the last several years and concluded that Jude can't take our hot dry climate well. The blooms shatter easily in the heat. My personal opinion is that there are lots of other Austins that have a better scent than Jude, but that is a subjective criteria that each person can decide. Jude is 8 feet tall at present after a rejuvenation pruning last year, and in some years has been taller than that. So it's a rose that can grow large. Finally, Jude is on my "watch" list for removing from my garden for poor rebloom. The spring show Jude had was wonderful, but the first heat wave destroyed it in a day or so. Since then there has been a little sporadic bloom. Diane

End of May this spring

My favorite Jude photo which I've showed before.

FWIW, as I'm in Sydney. I had the climbing form of SDlM in a previous garden, which was around 5 miles from the coast, and it did wonderfully. Only got morning sun. Planted the bush form where I am now, which is less than a mile from the coast, and sp'ed it, due to blackspot, few blooms, and of those, even fewer that hadn't balled, and just general malaise. It got a lot of sun, but dappled shade in the afternoon. Who knows?!

I am less than 10 miles from the (other) coast; it stays pretty humid here; hot summers, moderate winters.

I have not had problems with SdlM balling or black-spotting. In fact, very few issues with SdlM at all that don't have an insect origin... it's a great rose here. She would probably bloom more if she got more sun, but it is what it is. My understanding is that SdlM can mildew if conditions promote that, but that hasn't been a problem here.

I don't grow JtO, so can't comment on how it performs.

Good luck,

Virginia

Yes, the fragrance of JTO is delightful (to me), a blend of mango, rose and citrus. My sister and I wandered the San Jose Heritage rose garden and sniffed every one of the roses that had a flower (several hundred at least), and JTO easily won on that day. I say "that day" because to my nose, roses vary greatly from day to day and by growing conditions. I decided not to plant SDLM since when I sniffed it at the local rose garden, it smelled exactly like stale beer. Interesting, but not something I wanted. Two years later, I sniffed it and it smelled wonderful. Both plants have their quirks (as do all roses). JTO in this dry climate can ball horribly, be very shy blooming, and color can vary from dirty grey to bright yellow to peachy to parchment. Blooms crisp in heat and dry wind. Fragrance level can vary greatly. Seems to be almost exclusively a spring bloomer here. SDLM here seems to grow as a groundcover rose, sparse of leaf, and not very floriferous. Of course your performance will likely be quite different from this, in your very different climate.

Wonderful pics everyone! Thank you all for sharing your opinions, insights and experiences...I didn't realize that the fragrance of a rose could be so variable based on season and locale. Nanadoll, is JtO annoying to prune with its size?

For those who have SdlM, when it mildews is it really disfiguring?

sdlm can handle a great amount of humidity (both climbing and bush type)

we lived in a northwestern suburb of houston, tx and i grew both of these on the downwind side of a pool, no more than a dozen feet or so from the pool and they were the best roses i ever had the bush form balled some when it rained, but not from just regular humidity-and not many places are more humid than houston, tx both plants had very little disease (blackspot/powdery mildew) and i've been looking for replacements for a couple of years and haven't located them....

I have only SdlM and its fragrance is not my favorite since I like an "old rose" smell. I'm about 20 miles from the ocean and it rarely balls, and the flowers are usually, even in the heat, deeper than flesh toned. With the drought and in a place with lots of radiant heat, it's not what it was a few years ago, which was perfect, but it still blooms often, and even in the heat the flowers are large and pink. I think you owe it to yourself to at least try it. It may turn out to be a champion.

June 2016- Summer blooms

SDLM yes!! It is beautiful and fragrant. Humidity (??? no experience with it here). Ten miles away from the coast in O.C....you should be fine ( lived there for 4 years ... Irvine.. Newport Beach ) . Definitely worth a try.

I'm getting ready to remove JtO this fall. I continue to shrink my garden in an effort to put water to best use. Very few modern roses are making the cut. JtO is not bad, but it is not among the very finest. At one point I had about 150 rose plants, and I'm headed to under half that.

I have seen Souv de la Malmaison grown inland, so I know how wonderful it CAN be, where it is happy.

I am located in coastal Ventura County. I have tried four times to grow SdlM here, with identical results ... puny plants with incurable plant-wide mildew. I never saw a bloom open here. The buds were so crusted with mildew that they just sat there and rotted.

So, I will never, EVER, try again to grow SdlM -- but I will admire it where it is happy.

What will it do in your garden??? You won't know 'til you try. But, you know, if you're going to do it, you might consider getting Burlington to bud a SdlM for you. Give it every chance. Get it on Fortuniana, and see what it might do.

As for Jude . . . we have not grown it. Having once grown MANY David Austin roses, we now grow a handful. Jude came along right about when we began to figure out that roses adapted to Northern England might not be the best choices for us.

Jjkoc to answer your question about pruning Jude...I don't mind it, though it is moderately time consuming. Jude's not the worst rose to prune (that was New Dawn), nor the easiest, but pruning in general doesn't bother me much. Diane

Thanks Diane! Jeri, I contacted Burlington and she does not bud SdlM, but sells own-root. Though I would LOVE to experience JtO's fragrance, I think it might end up requiring a lot of more water and get too big for me.

I am still deciding whether to take the plunge and try SdlM. I am SO curious whether it would grow well and bloom those big beautiful quartered flowers in my hands... SIGH and what I would do if it didn't like my conditions.

You never know until you try! I have SDLM growing in hot and humid SE Tx and I love this rose! It was my first OGR and I have never regretted planting her. I happen to love her fragrance and she takes the heat like a champ. She is always a pretty pale pink for me too. I say go for it!

SDLM in OC has been great. Grafted has been better than own root. Surprising how well the delicate flowers hold up to heat. It's one of my best performers in July/August/September.

JTO, afternoon shade and no reflected heat from concrete/stucco gives best results. A beautiful rose. Takes a long time to become a good repeater, but worth the wait if you love a good fragrance.

Thanks for the encouragement Boncrow66! Hoovb, where did you get your grafted SdlM? Thanks everyone for sharing all your experiences and thoughts, they are all so very helpful!

I live within walking distance of the beach in Santa Cruz. The climbing form of SDlM is one of my best roses. Doesn't ball unless it's raining. No disease at all.

Jill

Hi Jill, are the flowers of the bush and climbing form identical? I have read that the bush form may be more vigorous, but I wasn't sure if that was observed in all locales. Also I wasn't sure if there was any difference in color and look of the flowers between the two forms.

The flowers are the same. I have the climber (from Heirloom about 20 years ago) and can't imagine the bush would be more vigorous than that plant is. We have the bush form at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, and it's never impressed me, but I don't offhand know the source, and it's grafted.

Hoovb and Jeri, both of you recommended grafted SdlM. Can you tell me what rootstock it should be grafted onto? Also, Hoovb, in what ways is grafted better than own-root?

My grafted SDLM is grafted on multiflora and is from...Pickering I think. They are no longer in business or at least no longer in the mail-order business. I did not purchase it, it was a gift. It is 6 feet tall.

My own-root is from Chamblees, is 16 years old, and still doing well. It is 3' tall. IMO, the grafted copy is more vigorous. The own-root has been a very good plant, but the grafted one has been faster growing and more productive.

Multiflora is not recommended for Southern California, but I have had no issues with it. My 'Laguna' climber is huge and healthy on multiflora, but I do not have the usual clay. The soil here is silty loam. Jeri, I think she has mentioned in the past that multiflora rootstock doesn't grow for her.

Dr. Huey is the standard rootstock for CA.

If you can get it grafted on Fortuniana it might be a super-awesome plant...might be a jaw-dropper/traffic stopper. I keep meaning to try some roses grafted on Fortuniana but because of the drought I've no added a lot of roses the past 4 years. There are a couple of FL or deep-south mail order fortuniana-rootstock places said to be quite reliable.

You might also look at 'Mystic Beauty' from Roses Unlimited which is supposed to be a little bit prettier sport of SDLM. I have no experience with it.

Holy Moly 6' tall SdlM! Can SdlM be pruned a little smaller? Jeri, I totally missed your recommendation of Fortuniana rootstock! Thank you both for the advice on budded SdlM.

I hated Jude. Had it for over 9 years and the hype was purely hype. Grew much taller than what was stated. Bloomed once in the spring and never pretty much after that. Scent, try Brother Cadfael. Now that is a beautiful scent for an Austin. Didn't like or couldn't smell Jude very much. Overall one lousy rose for me. So glad it is gone and replaced with roses I like much better and can take the heat.

I tried 3 Judes. He likes morning sun and afternoon shade here by Disneyland,

. The fragrance is variable. On a great day with a little humidity, its one of the best. I like it because its a mix of fragrances and can vary through the year. Jude and Evelyn are worth the effort. In a hotter spot in the garden it struggled. You need to water it more for it to grow well. It must have regular feedings and mulch.

SdlM will not be as fussy. I'm trying one as a small standard. ( an old cane flopped and I tied it to a pipe and trimmed off the rest of the bush) It gets less mildew up in the air. This is my fifth one. I love SdlM but watch out for mildew early in the year or it will slow the plant down.

.

Thank you kittymoonbeam, as Hoovb refers to Evelyn as a diva, I guess Jude is also high maintenance... Great to hear that SdlM is not so much except for PM vigilance. I think of the two, SdlM might be more compatible in regards to space. I wish there were a smaller version of JtO... maybe one that could take more sun. Windermere seems similar in form, and smaller? but has more fragile petals? I guess there is no such thing as a perfect rose!

I grow multiple Evelyns and I don't think they're divas. I'd like to know why others think they are. They certainly bloom a lot more than Jude. Diane

Jude the Obsured does awesome here in Seattle area if in a sunny spot. So fragrant. Gets large with cascading willow tree like shape.

I have an own root Jude in a lot of shade. It's not very big but reblooms pretty well. To me it's so beautiful and fragrant it is worth having even if not growing strongly. If I had more room I'd put one in a sunny spot. Maybe I will anyway. No mildew on it or SDLM here.

SDLM is one of my best bloomers. Mine's by our front door where we can see it often. It's a short, branchy plant. It has never crossed my mind that the color is blah..it's just a soothing, elegant pink. I bought the climbing form from Palatine in fall 2016 but it hasn't bloomed yet. Is looking healthy and growing adequately so far.

jjkoc, since you specifically mentioned water, I'll give you my experience with my own root Jude. He didn't do much growing or blooming for 3 - 4 years, then someone brought the water issue up a few years ago and said they thought the Austin roses, especially Jude, needed more water than most, so I started giving him lots more and that, indeed, was what he wanted. He performs beautifully as long as I nearly drown him, and that scent.....nothing else like it. My climate is dry as toast, so that played a part, I'm sure. Summers here are in the 100˚ range. All my Austins perform better with copious amounts of water.

If you're in water restricted So. Cal., this might be something to consider, but in my opinion, he's worth it.

Jude does great in full sun here in FL. The more humidity, the more sun he can take.

I keep meaning to get SDLM I want the climbing version.

JtO has a glorious scent, and if v you don’t have cataracts, there’s nothing blah about the color. It’s the perfect rose. Beautiful blooms, gorgeous scent, what more do you want?

I have SdlM also, and I also love it. The scent is not as strong as Jude’s. ALL my friends love it and rave about the scent. Get it!

SdlM had a terrible mildew problem here. That was in a time when our climate was cool and often foggy. I tried 2 bushes and 1 climber, and finally gave up. It might be better, now the climate is hotter and drier, I don't know. But if mildew isn't an issue for you, I would try it.

Here is a century+ old one, in the Sacramento City Cemetery.