I have both fulgida var. Goldstrum and fulgida var. fulgida The Goldstrum has spread itself widley in it's original bed and to at least 3 other nearby beds. I am sure that the birds helped with that. The fulgida has not spread out of it's bed, and just minor expansion in the area of it's planting spot. This is all over a period of 4 years.

I haven't noted the difference in the seedlings of either, but by the time a newbie has developed a full set of leaves at 6 to 7 inches tall it becomes apparent which is Goldstrum. Larger/broader leaves of a brighter green than Fulgida.

Interesting info and questions raised; includes you can't always trust labelling.

'Goldsturm' is definitely a selection of R. fulgida var. sullivantii. Although all Rudbeckia species are native to North American, 'Goldsturm' was selected from the sullivantii variety in Germany over 60 years ago; hence full name: Rudbeckia fulgida var. sulivantii 'Goldsturm'. Subsequently this cultivar has been used to select for other cultivars.

Rudbeckia fulgida var. fulgida is another native variety of the R. fulgida species. The core range of variety fulgida is Ga, La, SC. NC, Va and WVa. The core range of R. fulgida var. sullivantii is Mo, Ill, Ind, Mich and Ohio.

Cultivars like 'Goldsturm' were selected for (= selectively bred for) certain traits; also the descendants of 'Goldsturm' (in the latter case includes resistance to drought and to leaf-spotting).

I'm under the impression that the world "selection", as applied to R. fulgida var. fulgida, just means it was collected from the wild (= is a wild type). If so, that could imply it has lots of variability in the garden.

There probably are multiple clones that are sold under the name 'Goldsturm' in the commerce, and yes they even sell seeds under the name 'Goldsturm'. They all seem to have large nice flowers, I assume that they are all selected forms even if they are not all the same clone. But there is supposed to be the original clone from the European garden. Just wondering how many plants sold under "Goldsturm' are actually from the original cloned source. The original is supposed to be more concentrated in habit, and shorter. Some seem to claim the original form to have bigger actual flowers, some seem to say that they are all pretty much the same. I see shorter plants and taller plants as they are now all blooming... all nice plants.

See now the new 'Little Goldtstar', looks like this will be a very popular and (over)used plant. A tidy smaller plant with cute smaller flowers. Does anybody know if this is a hybrid of some sort? A lucky seedling selection?

Not a hybrid: Rudbeckia fulgida var. sullivanti 'Little Goldstar' is a patented selection from (at least a German) 'Goldsturm' which is reproduced by tissue culture.

So 'Little Goldstar' is a chance mutation?

Does anybody have an old plot of 'Goldsturm' from 25-30 years ago to compare to what we see today?

Don't know, but perhaps it was selected at one end of the normal range of 'Goldsturm' variation prior to selective breeding.

After all this time, what you might get as "Goldsturm" at a nursery is liable to vary considerably from the original selection, even more so if it was raised from seed.

I have some nice plants that decided to drop in from god knows where, and now in full bloom, they are making a nice complement to the neighboring Rudbeckia triloba.