I don't think people say "old-fashioned" anymore, and I think that "retro" is outdated. People commonly use the term "classic" now, but I'm old-school, and that's just fine with me ;-P

I think "grandma" or "granny" is the current term for old-fashioned, although my DH always calls such things "Aunt Fern" after his elderly great Aunt who always has candy in the candy dish and condiments in little cut glass trays... along with doilies. It actually sounds very comforting to me. :)

I think it's the perception that roses are fussy and a lot of work. I recently brought my BF on board the rose train and when planting his', his neighbor's only remark was, "And you thought your vegetable garden was a lot of work." So far he's found them a LOT less trouble than his vegetable.

I'm in the generation x era, not that I put much thought into that. But I somewhat resent a few of the comments about us being lazy & wanting instant gratification. So instead of being lazy I will write a very detail message here to put forth that I am far from lazy & as much as I want instant gratification, I have to be realistic that all things in life take time. Especially having a beautiful garden! I guess I cheat a little when I buy the largest potted roses I can find, instead of bands to give them a head start in my not so hardy zone. And yes I try & plant things in optimum locations with optimum compost & soil, so they can further thrive faster. I don't use toxic chemicals to have perfect plants, because the government has banned many of them here because of links to negative side effects. So I vigilantly try & remove invasive bugs by hand or with water. I enjoy gardening & in order to fit in time daily to tend to a garden, rear my child, run a household, spend quality time with my family & friends I wake up at 5:00 in the morning. And as for the younger generations, I can speak for a lot of people in that having a garden may not be viable because of time constraints & financial burdens. The majority of my generation have 2 full time working parents, long hours & long commutes, kids in daycare & big mortgages. In my area the cost of housing is ridiculous, as of last June, 2015 Ontario's average is $477,000. In Toronto it is $639,000; which usually doesn't even mean you get a yard with that! So those may be just some of the reasons why someone would not have the ability to grow anything, let alone roses.

Another plant that I seldom see in either public or private gardens here is the bearded iris. Iris must also be a granny plant. There are plenty of purple iris growing in rural areas but iris aren't used in suburban gardens. When I'm dividing iris at the historic site, I have no difficulty giving away the extras - people do want them. But folks buy what's available at Home Depot and HD only stocks common materials so its Knock-Out roses and Stella daylilies for everyone.

I am also a GenX'r - I do not grow any roses, I love to garden and do not have any Astro turf or rocks in my gardens - I have about 6 sizable raised garden beds along my property with more to come once additional landscaping is done in the back of the property. While I do love gardening, I find Roses to be too high maintenance from my general understanding of them, and I worry that I may not be experienced enough to handle them - nothing makes me sadder than seeing dead plants. I am still learning as majority of my life I did live in Condo's/townhouse or apartments with little to no green space. Not lazy, just apprehensive ;-)

And on a side note, there are little to no plants in my yard that are sourced from Home Depot, I usually have a hard time finding plants even in local nurserys that fall outside the norm of whatever is trending now

Maybe I’m wrong, and I have been a couple of times….well maybe more than a couple…
I think the reason a lot of folks don’t grow roses is because they get turned off by the X-spurts. You must mulch, but don’t get it next to a plant, can’t have black spot on any leaf, can’t call thorns thorns, you must call them prickles (what ever that is). Spraying is okay to kill off the bad bugs, but not okay as it kills off the good bugs. On and on it goes. I think one of the reason no one shows their gardens is because they look like a corn fields. Heaven forbid if you plant something next to a rose bush or you have more than one of the same kind.

Yet whenever someone posts a picture of their garden that is jam packed with roses and other flowers everyone goes crazy saying how great it looks……. hmmm maybe we all could learn from that.

Okay, that's my two cents, got to go check on the robot lawn mower….

@cecily - I love tall bearded irises. They are great in my zone. However, in search of some for my garden, I only found a few varieties. One place I went to; could not get any because his supplier had issues with the borers. Apparently, they are an issue, so it's easier not to carry them. And yes the big box stores don't carry many varieties of perennials. Lots of annuals though.

The rose industry has itself to blame. Even today, where I live (Northern NJ), big boxes and garden centers alike carry mostly roses ( if not knockouts) that are neither zone appropriate or garden appropriate. All of my early purchases, mostly Weeks roses, died as they have no business being sold here as garden plants. Hopefully with the availability of high quality garden roses like Kordes, the tide might turn. It might only takes one well-grown rose bush to convert someone into a rose addict.

@farmerduck - it often amazes me how regularly I see plants here that are not zone appropriate. @halloblondie have you considered mail order ? I am finding that the more 'interesting' varieties of bulbs can be sourced through online - I got some peonies from bloomscanada this year and im planning my fall bulbs, vesseys seems to have a good selection available

@Nat Kay - I am making a list for the spring. I have a current wish list of roses & other plants I would like. If I can't find them this season; I was planning on doing some online shopping over the winter. I just prefer to buy things in a store in general. However, as you know, there are so many more options available if you order.

@halloblondie - I hear ya, selection is pretty limited in the stores. Glen Echo Nursery, I know it's probably a bit far from you, tends to have an excellent selection. My local nursery's are not so good. Vesseys has some great deals so I plan to put together an order in the fall for some bulbs (im holding out for a good promo)- and maybe some new Itoh Peonys i've had my eye on. Maybe next year I will try my luck with a Rose, I tried those Oso Easy Roses, and they are soooo not what I expected, I hate them :(

@halloblondie - get thee to Schreiner's Iris Gardens web site. The summer clearance sale is on and they do ship outside the US. (and a new addiction begins...)

@cecily - I have looked at the schreiner's site a few times this year. But if I buy any more stuff this year, my husband is going to take away my bank card, lol! Seriously, though I need to let the new stuff fill in before I add something else. And I can't be making any more garden beds this year, just to fit things in. I'm just finishing another bed extension today, for impulse purchases last week.

@Nat Kay - Glen Echo is not too far from me at all actually. But I have not been there before. I frequent a few garden centers, & between them you can get lots of different plants. However, the problem I have is I see beautiful colours of a bloom online (especially on the forums) & I want it, that's when I can't find it in stores. Oso easy roses are great for a fill in at the front of the border as a splash of colour. But if you are looking for beautiful blooms, you need to try out some shrubs, floribundas or hybrid teas. Lots of suggestions can be found on this forum!

Jjpeace, like Wirosarian, the first thing that popped into my
mind was cyclical trends. Similar to real estate or any other market –
there are ups and downs. I would say that many of my friends are surprised of
my increasing interest in rose gardening and have purchased new roses or pay
more attention now to the ones they have. It’s a wonderful thing to share.

As for the OT discussion about Xer’s or whatever, what’s the
difference? All generations have been generalized to some short sound bite (and
that’s a trend, too). There will always be gardeners in any generation and it’s
not easy work. Period.

@halloblondie - I know how you feel, everytime I come across something here I want I also can't find it. Garden centers in my immediate vicinity seem to stock only extremely common plants you'd find even at HD

I must exercise more patience with impulse purchases or my husband too will take away my bank card ;-) If left to my own devices I guarantee my 1 acre lot would become various giant garden beds everywhere lol

If you're in the area of Glen Echo, it's worth a drop in (depending on what you're looking for) They always have a huge selection of shrubs/trees/perennials. With the Oso easy I was looking for something small and compact to add a bit of interest but I'm just not feeling them , i'll keep them and maybe re-position but no more shall enter my gardens

Thank you all for sharing your opinions. I will always love growing roses as long as I am able to. I think as long as there are people like us who love to grow and talk about roses, I guess it doesn't really matter if the public at large does not.

Funny comments on Gen-X'ers. The best part is the "young people" comment. Since Gen-X begins about 1964 or so, most of the Gen-X'ers are in the late 40's to 50's, which I never thought of as being "young people". So being a Gen-X'er myself, I kind-of like that! Interesting comments about Gen-X being lazy and wanting instant gratification. There are two of us in this household, each with bachelor's degrees, master's degrees and doctorate degrees, with all of those degrees in different fields. One running a business as well as being part of a highly technical team, and the other the head of my department full of very highly educated people. When we bought our house, we dug by hand, the stumps and roots of over a dozen mature trees (invasive roots/non-native). I've grown (and won awards for) orchids that I waited 9 years to bloom. Lazy? Wanting instant gratification? You betcha! I would love to have an instant rose garden. I would love to have my roses be full sized immediately with no care at all needed. I'm busy enough. Do I expect that? Nope. I put a lot of work into my babies! But maybe I should toss the Yuzu that I grew from seed and will need to wait a dozen or more years for it to bloom. I could just buy a mature one. That might be more in line with what's expected for my generation.

My favorite tool for removing tree stumps is an ax. The trick is to carefully remove any rocks in the path before you start swinging! The biggest stump I've taken out is a 22" maple.

Mine too. Those rocks make for an amazing display of sparks though, and those don't help with stump removal!

Yeah, I think it's just a down-trend right now. And possibly the closing of so many of our better suppliers. Roses will always be here. Some people will love them and some will not.

As for irises... I used to be totally obsessed with them as much as the roses. But one of the bad things about them is how much maintenance they need! To me, they're worse than the roses in that respect. After blooming, the leaves are an ugly mess, they often get whiteflies, and you have to thin them out at the very least every third yr or they decline in flower production. They also keep growing, spreading out exponentially, and choking out other plants. As I clean up my rose beds now, I'm digging out many of my irises and tossing them. When I was working two jobs, it was hard to find time to get out and maintain my garden. As a result, over the last 5-6yrs, the irises have waaay overgrown the beds and many have nearly choked out my roses. I may have even lost a handful of the smaller ownroots to them. This spring bloom was the lowest in yrs. I'm getting older and more out of shape, and I know I'm in over my head anymore. So I just want to enjoy my roses... not be bending over thinning out irises and yanking out their brown leaves. All that being said... I still have probably thousands of them mingled out there that I haven't gotten to yet! To any of you wanting to grow irises, I would recommend planting only a few sporadically in your rose beds, or plant just a separate iris bed, and make sure you thin them out every other yr.

For those of you who do want irises tho, here's a great website with hundreds of varieties at reasonable prices! Their ordering season starts I believe around Xmastime. Have fun looking. The photos are gorgeous! BlueJ Irises

First off, I want to apologize to everyone who is younger then me (69) for my little rant that was WAY off subject and totally unnecessary. I had been having issues with my oldest grandson (25) that day and one thing led to another. I raised 4 children (Gen. X) and have 9 grandchildren and 1 great granddaughter. All my children work hard but when they are off they sit in front of the TV and do the game thing. Same thing with most of my grandchildren. My oldest granddaughter (a nurse) is the only one that does anything outside the house. She is determined to grow roses like her pop pop.

As far as roses being "old fashioned", maybe to some people. Roses have been around a long time and I'm willing to bet they will still be around after I'm long gone.

Everyone has their opinion on what a rose is and what it should do for them. You have your opinion, I have mine. We share what we do to help each other out just a little. That's what this form is for. Not my rants.

Ken, we all have bad days. I can also put out a good rant. haha I greatly appreciate your contributions to the forum.

It seems to me that the trend now is to grow food plants rather than ornamentals. This makes sense given the multiple factors out there including climate change, environmental toxins, the slow food movement, the locavore movement, GMO's, endocrine disrupters, E. coli scares, Michael Pollan's books, and population density causing an increasing separation from nature (see "Nature Deficit Disorder"). These may also drive the push toward water harvesting, native plant use. Do I think that this means the doom of Rose growing? Probably not. But it might mean that roses and rose growing may become different than what we've seen. Maybe the push will be to breed with native species, to develop and grow roses that don't need additional water or petroleum based fertilizers, and those that produce tasty fruit in addition to being beautiful and fragrant. Can you imagine?

Noseometer, wow... that would be great! I'm imagining now... I wouldn't mind some mango roses. :-)

Like anything, roses take time and care. Many people just don't want to do it or don't have the time. If they want some yard color KOs are perfect for them. The kinds of roses we grow are really a hobby, a passion. Plus many young people are still living at home or just have apartments. Even those that have houses have other priorities. I work full time, but I don't have kids. If I did, I probably wouldn't have time for roses, at least not as much as I do now.

Well I hope at some point more people will stop and smell the roses! In my neighborhood people barely bother with daffodils and summer annuals, let alone anything that needs more care. In fact my nearest neighbors usually set out annuals by the front door and their mailbox which promptly die due to lack of water!

Most of my roses are in the backyard and cannot be seen at all from the street. Over the years I've invited various neighbors to come see my roses when they are at their peak. Some folks actually declined my invitation, just REALLY not interested.

I volunteer at an organic rose garden at the Norfolk, Virginia zoo; despite the signs we get few visitors. The ones who do come are amazed, since we are growing a wide variety of shrubs from Mutabilis to Carefree Beauty to Peach Drift. (Roses never seen in big box stores!)

@ken - no worries about the rant. I'm on this forum to learn more about roses, because no one I know grows them. My own mother never even had them "because they were too fussy". I also love seeing everyone's wonderful blooms, plants & gardens. There are many people on here who are very helpful, kind & knowledgeable.

I want to grow roses mainly because they are beautiful, but I like the idea of having plants that have continuous colour throughout the season. I want to be done with annuals. I cannot go away for more than 24 hours in the summer because my annuals need water everyday. By next year I will have enough established perennials that I don't have to water daily.

About 18 years ago I was on a trip with some serious plant people/botanists looking for new potential perennial introductions in the Andes. When they found out I worked in roses they made it quite clear that this was not fashionable or cool. Only perennials were cool. I have slowly seen them change their minds about roses mostly because the improvements in the breeding of roses that work well in gardens. I think they may had been right 18 years ago as roses were not that easy to care for, prone to disease. They also disliked the formal rose garden designs that were so prevalent at the time.

What has changed is that there are all kinds of roses being introduced that have such a wide range of plant habit and flowers. I think more people see roses fitting into all different kinds of garden designs not just formal rose gardens, but also into cottage gardens and mixed perennial beds. The fact there are now on the market roses that are no more fussy than other perennials is also a big factor.

In the late 1980s rose production in the USA reached its peak at about 60 million bushes produced. Currently there are about 40 million roses produced. Knock Out has the largest share of this market, but there is an increasing market for the more traditional roses like Hts and floribundas. I think the numbers of roses that are sold is starting to increase with the improved disease resistance. Honestly what perennial can match a rose in the amount of color, fragrance and length of bloom time? What is needed is probably a industry sponsored campaign to promote roses.

There are problems and challenges. One of them is RRD and it is a big challenge. The other a bit easier - making sure that when consumers go to the garden center the roses available are the easier to grow varieties. Now I know that some of you will disagree with me, but when the majority of the roses available are the older varieties that in many climates are susceptible to disease are what they will find we are not going to increase the rose growing public. When the roses from the 1960's-1990's as the most available varieties in the garden centers we will not convince gardeners to grow roses. This is something the industry can change. The problem is often that those ordering roses for garden centers still order names they know rather than looking for the best and easiest to grow in their climate.

I see the current trend of growing food as a good sign for the entire horticultural industry. If a gardener can grow food successfully then they have more than enough skill to grow roses or perennials and woodies. I think these young farmers" will move on to landscapes with more than just food crops.

I am an optimistic that we will see a resurgence in the popularity of the rose. It will take some time, but I believe that the younger gardeners will find their way to the roses and when they do they will see roses are not hard to grow and provide so much enjoyment.

alot of people see roses as fussy or old fashioned but i enjoy the fragrance and look of a rose in a garden. i see it like furniture or records some people like antiques/vintage or playing records while others see it as outdated i think if stores would carry more of a variety roses as apposed to oklahoma, intrigue, and the rest of the mid century gang they could draw more people to buying roses.

Chris - you are correct, of course, about mid 20th century roses being more difficult to grow than some of the "easy care" modern shrubs. However, what I have found, at least in my climate, is that the REALLY easy to grow roses were all hybridized in the 19th century! HTs are the problem, not "old" vs "new" varieties.

Jackie

Adding to Jackie's comment, this is my first- second full year of growing many tea and other "old" garden roses. One thing I have found astounding is how many of these plants began to really take off as it has become warmer; and I use "warmer" very loosely... it is hot.. !! The roses that struggle the most and require afternoon shade, with a small number of exceptions, are the "new" David Austin modern roses.

When I first began growing roses, as someone mentioned, the ARS publishings skewed modern, BUT they also seemed to focus upon gardeners back east. I also use to watch gardening programs on the television, and some did not seem to acknowledge that gardens even existed west of Georgia.. for the most part..... Mass purchasing of roses and even information regarding rose growing still seems fairly redundant (same roses.. same ideas) ... but I see improvements.

I guess what I am trying to communicate is gardening of anything, especially roses, becomes a lot easier when you first discover the varieties that perform well in your individual climate and garden. If more people successfully grew those first, prior to putting on their maverick suit, maybe some attitudes would change. The key is knowledge. The GW forum, historical rose societies, and local rose societies, in the scheme of things, are so important.

california seems to do well for mid century roses my angel face is healthy and floriforous same for my old oklahoma/chysler imperial i used to have

i just think stores should show people more of a variety of whats out there disease, color or fragrance wise in newer roses as i have had people tell me that roses are too delicate and high matinence. i found that my local stores just get assortments of plants in and some dont do well in the area. last year they were selling zone 3 hardy hibscus which were just labled that for sales

Providing more specificity or descriptors regarding where we garden, can be useful too. I list Las Vegas and not Nevada... as my climate is very different from Reno.

I was born in Coastal Southern California and lived most of my life there. It just isn't the same as say Palm Desert, Santa Clarita, or even Riverside County, CA... which right now, all bear a strong similarity to my climate... in Las Vegas.

The mid century roses were mostly hybridized in southern California and were trialed with fungicides and the expectation everyone would use fungicides. Of course these HT and Fl do well in California that is where they were selected.

Yes the key is knowledg,e but I do not think the average buyer of roses will have that knowledge so the responsibility falls to the local nurseryman. Big boxes can tailor regional programs. Still it is complicated. Most of us in the business are choosing roses that can do well in a wide variety of climates.

While I understand that 19th Century roses have disease resistance because they were hybridized before fungicides a lot of very good new traits have been bred into roses since that time. I think there are now disease resistant HT roses with great hardiness and disease resistance plus more flowering and faster repeat available.

That said there are many tastes in roses and all should be able to find roses they like. I do not think those that participate in this forum are typical of the majority of people buying roses.

Chris, you wrote:

"The mid century roses were mostly hybridized in southern California and were trialed with fungicides and the expectation everyone would use fungicides. Of course these HT and Fl do well in California that is where they were selected".

Let me preface this by saying I am not trying to be contrary, but to understand what you wrote.

Just dealing with Coastal Southern California, I was raised in the southern California South Bay area - Palos Verdes... Redondo Beach.. My hubby was raised in Camarillo.. Camarillo is so wet/ moist comparatively.. and where I grew up was was no farther inland than where he grew up. At one point, I lived almost ocean front and I would swear it wasn't as wet as Camarillo ( Coastal Ventura County). San Diego can be so foggy... Morro Bay has a high that regularly does not hit 70 degrees during the summer. There is a strong marine layer, and it is wet.

Now, you move away from this area, farther inland, and it is almost as hot and dry as I am in Las Vegas. No major disease pressures due to dryness. There are of course, areas in between what one finds near the coast or near/ in the California desert.

You mentioned that these roses were bred assuming that people would spray for diseases. Now that so many do not spray, and will not spray, do you still believe mid-Century roses are the perfect fit for all of those rose gardeners in California? If so why?

Glad to read that the breeding is taking disease resistance in mind. Now if they can make roses that are un fazed by 100+ degree temperatures.

I trial roses where it is low humidity and I often have temperatures in the summer over 100F so yes, I do see what this does to the varieties. It is why we created the Sunbelt Collection really more for high heat than for the humid south although they seem to work in both areas. Kordes is hybridized in northern Germany so it is not a given that the roses will work in the southern regions of N. America but some of them work exceptionally well.

I know California climates quite well and yes there is a pretty significant difference between coastal and inland climates. Some roses work in both. Most of the mid-century rose trials for the breeders were conducted at inland locations. There is very little black spot pressure, some powdery mildew, and lots of downy mildew in this region. But most sprayed the fields so it was not evident at selection how the roses would perform without fungicides.

I still think that when you look at the larger picture of roses working well for gardeners the most difficult climates are the Midwest with humid hot summers (lots of black spot) and then very hard winters. The other hard location for roses to function is the deep south which has hot humid days but more difficult is the very high nighttime temperatures. In Florida the lack of winter vernalization makes it even harder for roses to function.

In reality what we look for is roses that work well in the largest geographical areas as possible as it it quite expensive to bring a new variety to market. Our goal is to trial in as many climates as possible. It will always be true that some of these will be better in one climate than another. It is also true that soil, pH, water quality and how the roses are cared for will also give a very wide difference in how well they perform. It is not just genetics.

I saw a recent post on one of our varieties saying it is not a good rose because it was balling. When I looked at the photo I saw thrip damage and I suspect this was the issue on balling not genetics. There are things we cannot control and insect damage, unusual weather, drought and the like may effect the performance of a plant. People seem to be quick to blame genetics.

By the way, for the California and desert southwest residents- UC-Davis and the California Extension service are conducting trials on drought tolerance in ornamental plants. We have entered some roses into these trials. I think they are publishing results and it is great data not just for roses but other ornamental too.

Thank you, Chris :)

The comments above about zone issues are so informative & needed to be addressed. I live in area where we probably have ideal late spring, summer & fall weather for growing beautiful roses. However, as soon as winter hits you start thinking what's going to make it through for next year. The average gardener buys what's available at the stores. They buy a rose because it's pretty. They plant it, take care of it, then winter hits. It dies over the winter. Spring comes around and they say well I can't grow a rose. They then replace it with an easy care day lily, hydrangea, spirea, etc. The biggest problem is our stores mostly carry roses that are rated a zone higher. The average gardener does not look into this, they also are not going to bury the grafts when planting, because the tag says plant the rose at dirt level of the pot. The average gardener also does not winter protect or necessarily know about that! Which further propagates the stereotype that roses are difficult! The good news though is I am seeing a bigger push in stores for the Canadian artist & explorer series. But there are still so many zone 6 & above floribundas & hybrid teas in my area. The average gardener chooses those based on the huge bloom & colour when they walk into the store. And yes the knockouts are widely available here too. But they still require after winter pruning and care.

I'm sure the bad planting advice goes back decades--the tags of the roses I bought 2001 were wrong--fortunately I learned what to do after having just one really bad winter.

Of course you can argue that something like thrips damage is genetically related, just as we all accept that resistance to powdery mildew, rust, balling, and heat shrinkage are genetically related. Some varieties show thrips damage and some do not, and that's varietal. Some varieties are more susceptible to balling, like Clothilde Soupert, and others, like Iceberg never ball. That certainly is affected by genetics, as well as what the weather does. Genetics determines how resistant the variety is to those vagaries.

Chris, thanks for your diligence in trying out the roses you propagate in various climates, and for helping us all be aware of the very different needs of those climates. My heart breaks for rose gardeners in drought locations like California where you know what the rose needs and can't give it the regular water it really wants. Breeding some drought resistant roses sounds terrific for all of us as summers get hotter, and particularly for desert climates.

I did also appreciate your comments on hard places to grow roses - when you described the Midwest with blazing hot summers and bitterly cold winters, I thought that totally describes Nebraska. The breeder of "Husker Red" penstemon at our local Bluebird Nursery said, "If it'll grow in Nebraska, it'll grow anywhere". Of course that's not true, but we can give a plant a wide variety of experiences to challenge it.

I still think the hardest place to grow roses is zone 3 and lower, since even when growing things like Explorers that are bred for that climate the season is so SHORT.

Oh, and on the original topic, I agree that we're pretty cyclical with what's currently popular with young people and it can change fairly quickly when conditions change. Heck, with Pokemon Go all of a sudden couch potato teens are emerging from their video caves and not only exercising, they're walking their communities and really taking an interest in their surroundings (at least in my house). Won't last as an isolated thing, but maybe new developments will help nudge people in a way that influences trends. The introduction of easy-care roses like Knockouts, Kordes, and Easy Elegance roses is a factor that can help change people's rose behaviors and perceptions, and trickle to all ages (old fogies like me can be set in their ways too).

Cynthia

Nippstress, I was so impressed this past weekend when visiting a nearby city garden to see the roses: so many people and so many YOUNG people. Then I realized they were all playing Pokemon Go! I thought it's probably the first time many had ever visited and maybe some of the beauty would stay with them.

I love working with my children in the garden. They help with deadheading, picking Japanese beetles, etc. I often find them strolling through the garden and taking time to smell and admire a rose. I hope to pass on the desire to grow roses and the reward of work in gardening.

I applaud companies such as Kordes, David Austin, and others that have and are continuing to develop disease resistant varieties. This will do a lot to ensure the continuation of the rose. Growing roses in the Midwest has certainly been different than growing them back West.

I think the only thing that would keep me from purchasing more roses is RRD. I had not seen it in person until about 2 weeks ago in 2 nearby town but have found more cases just in the past week - one just 2-3 miles from my home. This has even made me reconsider my garden plans over the next 1-2 years. I had plans to finish my garden, adding approximately 40 more roses. I'm not sure now.

The popularity of high maintenance hybrid teas is the reason roses have such a negative reputation with the general public. As healthy varieties become more available in big box stores the reputation of roses as landscape shrubs will improve. I'm seeing flower carpet, and Kordes available locally in addition to the knockout and drift roses. I wish the easy elegance and oso easy series were easier to find locally. I don't mind mail order but people like my mother are uncomfortable ordering online plus sometimes it is nice to see a rose in person before you buy.

One idea may be to propagate old favorites like Rhode Island Red and give them away at rose and garden club meetings. Many members of the CT Rose club have Clair Matin for precisely this reason--a member liked it so much that he made it available to everyone.

I've been growing roses for about 25 years, and have no intention of stopping. My friends think they are pretty and make fun of how many I have, but have no desire to grown them themselves. My son, who is 27, grew up with my rose passion, now has his own house and asked me a while back if I had any spare roses I could give him for his gardens. Yes!!! He seems genuinely interested and takes good care of them. I hope to have passed on that love to him.

I'm a millennial and I blame those cheap orchids you can find about everywhere haha. Most young people today do not have the stability of their own home and backyard to plant roses, many jump from job to job that is just the reality of today. With orchids they can bring them anywhere with them as long as they've got a single rented bedroom with a windowsill. Marketing ploys like "Just add Ice" Orchids really add to their attraction also. Most millennial gardeners I know are really into orchids and they view roses as old school, finicky, and unsightly when not in bloom. Some people I've tried to give cuttings to told me that the thing about roses is that they look awful most of the year and their thorns are ugly. Personally I think orchids are much more difficult getting them to rebloom and such, I kill them all the time somehow. I admit, rose bushes do look unsightly sometimes, but there's nothing like seeing them change with the seasons.

The recent drought restrictions in CA also factors in. I've seen many yards just in my neighborhood here remove their roses for rocks and cactus because it seems like all you hear is people shaming others for "wasting" water. Neighbors are encouraged to report each other if they see people not abiding by the restrictions. It sucks when you have a tiny yard to begin with and are being told to water on certain days and during certain hours only because I can't always be home during those times. Landscapers are always knocking on my door offering their "drought tolerant" landscaping services now and meaning people are using their services. I find roses are pretty drought tolerant once they get established so I'm not going to worry about it.

Here's the water restrictions for my city.

Watering - Exterior Irrigation

• No watering - between 11 a.m. - 6 p.m. or within 48 hours of measurable rainfall
• Even numbered addresses - Tuesday and Fridays only
• Odd numbered addresses - Mondays and Thursdays only
• Locations without addresses - Monday and Thursdays only
• Water leaks - must be corrected within 24 hours of discovery/notifications
• Wasteful running of water/washing with water - unlawful, without reasonable purpose

Thanks for all your answers folks. It is quite an interesting and informative read. I agree there are many problems that can come with growing roses but like all of you, I love the beautiful blooms and the diversity. In my opinion, there is no other flower except the peony that can rival the rose. Of course the modern rose has the advantage of a long flowering cycle.

The main obstacle for me for growing more roses of course is the japanese beetles. I plan to redesign my front yard by installing a new driveway and garden in a year of two and also wanted to have a large rose garden. But if the JB situation is not controlled I may have to grow less roses and add other plants instead. I will have to see what happens.