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My rating of best Fragrant Roses..

Straw, in another thread, posted a list of top fragrant roses that she ever grew. I just clicked me that this is a very important topic and must be discussed separately.

This is what Straw wrote: "Here's my rank of the top-fragrances among the 100+ varieties that I grew for the past 22 years, from best to least: Comte de Chambord, Duchess de Rohan, Dee-lish, Versigny, Sonia Rykiel, Jude the Obscure, Firefighter, Romantica Sweet Promise 2007, Radio Times, Mary Magdalene, Bolero, Munstead Wood, Madame Isaac Pereire, Le Nia Rias. These I can sniff at least 10 times a day.

The fantastic wafting scent: Marie pavie, marie Daly, Perle 'd Or, mini Norwich Sweetheart, Poseidon (grassy clove).

These are good, but less addictive: Golden Celebration, Wise Portia, Annie L. McDowell (smell like lilac), W.S. 2000, Evelyn, Crimson Glory, Frederic Mistral, Charles Darwin (like lemon), Jacques Cartier (gave it away, not impressed). Double Delight, mini Scentsational, Pink Peace, Gruss an Teplitz, Souv. du President Lincoln.

These are OK in cool weather, but blah in hot weather: Scepter'd Isle (smell like dirty socks, so I gave away), Queen of Sweden (barely myrrh), Stephen Big purple (only good when it's cold), Liv Tyler, Christopher Marlow, Crown Princess Mag.

These are weird scents: Francis Blaise (apple & myrrh), Deep Purple (clove), Prairie Harvest. Khalid & Jess & Sam & Val: What's your ranking in terms of fragrance in your garden? Thanks.

As asked by Straw, I would also request all members to post their top fragrant roses ever, also giving about the quality and strength of fragrance and the reason why they like that fragrance so much.

best regards

Comments (82)

  • Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb)
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Oh wow.... that's such a comprehensive list. Almost every rose that I could think of (and so many more that I didn't even know) are there. Thanks for the link Straw.

  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    Yes, thanks, Straw!!! Wow!!

    One that I really, really agree with is Radox Bouquet!!!! The fragrance is amazingly strong - and mine was a first year rose!

    One I would love to get from that list is Love Potion - strong raspberry sounds amazing!!!! Oh my!!

    Carol

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  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Carol: when I checked on almost thornless roses .. Love Potion is low-thorn, but Radox Bouquet is thorny. I put Veteran's Honor into my clay, the scent is sour cherry, not that great. But it lasts long in the vase. The quality of scent matters .. I would take The Dark Lady's light Old rose scent over Frederic Mistral anytime. Francis Blaise was another unpleasant green apple and myrrh ... a bad combo.

    Question for Carol: Is your Strawberryhill vigorous? Then your soil/water might be alkaline. See below:

    TNY78(7a-East TN)

    I also have slightly acidic soil, although it is heavy clay as well. I'm on the 6b/7a line. I can tell you which of my own-root Austins don't do well own root here: Strawberry Hill, Leander, Geoff Hamilton, & Cordelia. If you're moving into slightly acidic soil, you may also look at getting some Austins grafted onto multiflora (Palatine & Hortico). My grafted ones seem to do very well compared to my own root ones...and I'm normally a fan of own root.

    Tammy

  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    I agree with your Straw - I don't like the scent of Frederic Mistral - in fact I got rid of mine, because I didn't like the smell.

    My Strawberry Hill was only 2 years old this past summer. It had a fabulous amount of blooms!!! I have it wrapped around a tall rectangular cage, so I'm not sure how tall it is - but I love this rose!! The fragrance is top notch!! I imagine my soil is more alkaline since it's not garden soil.

    Carol

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago

    Oh, I want to try Grande Dame and Love Potion now. I was just asking about it on Khalid's "Fall Roses" thread!


    One of my favorites is Jude the Obscure for fragrance. I also really like Twice in a Blue Moon though it isn't nearly as strong on a first year band so you have to bury your nose in it.


    Lemon Spice was a favorite for me but not as sweet now unfortunately as we move into fall. It is a first year band so I don't know if it's changing because it's older or the cooler weather or??



  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    I absolutely love Grande Dame - what a stellar rose!!

    Carol

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lavenderlace: I regret NOT getting Lemon Spice when it was 1/2 price Roses Unlimited sale. I was concerned about its hardiness to zone 7b, while my zone is 5a. Warm-climate roses lose its scent in cooler weather, could not smell anything from Double Delight in cold weather, but it's mightly strong when hot.

    Austins are just the opposite. Austin are "cool-weather" roses so they smell best in cool climate like rosecanadian (Carol). I could not smell anything from Strawberryhill during hot summer at the rose park.

    Carol: your pots are definitely alkaline .... the myrrh scent is strongest when the soil is alkaline. I picked Mary Magdalene blooms at near freezing temp., and the blooms have this strong frankincense (myrrh) which lasts forever. Also I put alkaline horse manure (pH 8) on that in September.

    So glad that I took The Dark Lady (Austin rose) off from my buy-list for 2017. The Dark Lady (grafted on Dr.Huey) has a good Old-rose scent after tons of ACIDIC rain at the rose park. But The Dark Lady (grafted on Dr. Huey) has zero scent with Seaweed's dry California & alkaline tap water.

    But if I buy The Dark Lady as OWN-ROOT, its roots won't produce enough acid to release the Old-rose scent. William Shakespeare 2000 (offspring of the Dark Lady) had light scent in its 1st-wimpy year .. but the scent became stronger as the own-root matured and produced more acid. But W.S. 2000 gave me a hard time with its wimpiness, and the Dark Lady is even smaller as own-root.

  • totoro z7b Md
    7 years ago

    I think my favorite quality of fragrance is Jude the Obscure. I also like the warm tea scent (according to DA) of Lady of Shallot.

    But First Crush smelled really amazing when I first got it last year. Thus year not so much.

    One rose I am surprised with is Koko loco. It is especially strong now and I am not sure if it is because it is cooler or if it is one of those roses that smells stronger when cut. It is old rose with hint of something else that I do not know how to describe - Musk or spice?



    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked totoro z7b Md
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    7 years ago

    I tend to appreciate all fragrances and even if I don't initially take to them I may still add them to my collection just to expand my scent vocabulary. Some that I initially found bizarre, I now appreciate and recognize in many other roses. But that's just me. ; )

    I'm actually please with the scent of my Kordes roses, although mine are all from the Parfuma collection and are newer varieties, I think. Dark Desire has a lovely old rose scent while Summer Enchantment starts with a unique and startling fragrance in the fleshly opened bud, yet finishes with a classic rose scent. I adored First Crush when I smelled it at Lowe's and was so pleased to find a discounted $5 plant there in Oct. that developed a big fat bud. The anticipation was killing me and then this happened: : (



    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Vaporvac: What happened to that bud? Thanks. Will have to check Lowe's for discount Kordes.

    Totoro: Wow!! That's the best and biggest bloom of koko loco ever. thank you for the info. on its scent.

    Here's a Noveber 19 bouquet, it will dip down to 20 F or -6 C tonight and tomorrow night. The large peachy one is Evelyn (smells like a cross between Jude and damask), the light pink is Cloudert Soupert .. no balling, just took longer to open up since it's below freezing last night. Louise Este is the top pink .. barely fragrant. Gene Boerner is the bottom pink ... smells like Knock-out. Radio Times and Jude are on the other side of bouquet.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago z5
  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    7 years ago

    What and ethereal bouquet, especially as it includes CS and GB, two roses I'm considering for next Spring, although I'm looking at the Cl. CS.

    I don't know exactly what happened to that bud, but it was attacked by ants! I've never seen that on any other buds. Very disappointing as i waited so long.

    Lowe's is great for own-root Kordes in big 2 gal. pots. They take terrible care of them so they're often marked down. My Lowe's had tons of different varieties in the Spring, but as a newbie I didn't know if they were any good. When I went back to buy they had sold most, but continued to get in different varieties over the summer. It's worth calling around. I got 6 Austins there for a price I'm almost embarrassed to mention. I felt someone would surely arrest me they were so cheap.

  • Anna
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lemon Spice is on my buy list too. I recently got Radiant Perfume- the scent is very strong, spicy citrus! but I don't like that it only last for max 3 days. On 4 th day it drops the petals.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked Anna
  • totoro z7b Md
    7 years ago

    Vaporvac, sad about that FC bud. I have one now and I hope it has a chance to open. I love seeing roses this late in the year.

    Besides one's that were already listed like Heritage, clotilde Soupert, Other fragrant roses I have are Buff Beauty, Mystic Beauty, Blossomtime, Pretty Jessica, Earth Angel but the strongest wafting fragrance is Sombreuil. (see below)

    Wollerton Old Hall is strong too, but I just don't like the myrrh scent as much.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked totoro z7b Md
  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago

    Totoro, so glad to hear that about Earth Angel! Mine haven't bloomed yet (received in October) so I'm sure that I'll have to wait until spring. EA is the tallest for me of my Kordes.


    Anna, Lemon Spice seems to have cooler undertones so actually looks very nice with colors that usually don't work with yellows. I thought that I didn't care for yellow until I smelled it! Jude the Obscure is dark peachy pink for me right now though I think that it's supposed to be more yellow.


    Straw, that bouquet is so pretty, wow!


    Vaporvac, if the fragrance suits you, I think that you will be very happy with First Crush as it's just lovely. I wish that those ants didn't destroy your first bloom, how disappointing!

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Anna: I love that cheerful yellow of your Radiant Perfume. My climate is so gloomy, so I like bright yellow (reminds me of Midas Touch rose).

    Totoro: I like that many petals of Sombreuil. Wafting scent is my favorite, I wish Perle d' Or would survive my winter. It's single-petal & peachy but the wafting scent is heaven (better than Marie Pavie).

    Lavenderlace: On your Ebb Tide's fragrance not strong in 1st year (in the other thread). Scents will get stronger as own-root mature. I was really disappointed in Tchaikosky's mild scent in the first year, but it's WOW strong in 2nd year .. delicious candy & floral, like a yummy desert.

    One site said copper helps with flavor & scent in fruits & veggies. Another site stated phosphorus helps with flavor & scent in fruits. If that is the case, then Khalid's testing sunflower-seeds (highest in copper) will show. I notice when I use chicken manure (high in phosphorus & copper, zinc, and boron) .. roses have better scent than horse manure.

    Horse manure messed up Bolero's scent many times, so I won't even give that to Bolero next year. Bolero smelled like expensive perfume (classy Old Rose scent) at Cantigny park, but smelled like bizarre waterlily in my clay & horse manure ... like rotted fruit.

    Personally I think the rose' vigor and the right soil for the right rose determines the scent. Deep Purple (Kordes that like loamy soil) scent was better in loamy potting soil, but when put in my alkaline clay, scent was gone & plus really wimpy.

    At Chicago Botanical Garden's loamy & alkaline soil, zero scent on most roses (including Austin and OGR), except for the ones that like such soil: The Dark Lady and Betty White.

    But at Cantigny's alkaline-clay rose park, everything is so intense & wonderful in scent. They use high-phosphorus chemical fertilizer.

    With horse manure at pH 8, I won't give to roses that have Old-Rose scent, which comes out better at acidic pH. Stephen Big Purple scent was wonderful with acidic rain & high-copper & high-phosphorus chicken manure .. but completely gone with horse manure.

    Another person made the same observation that Old-Rose scent is best with acidic soil, while fruity scent is intense in alkaline soil, see below from HMF:

    http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=5731&tab=32

    Reply #2 of 3 posted 20 JUL 09 byMichifur

    I should've updated my experience with Shocking Blue in Fremont, CA. Mine also gets 1/2 day sun facing southeast, but hasn't done as well as I'd hoped. It is not a strong grower and the flowers are disappointing. The color is more medium magenta than lavender, the form is more rounded with slightly ruffled edges, and the scent is NOT pure lemon and stingy at that, only slight to moderate. I suspect that it doesn't like the alkaline soil here, but Regan's Nursery told me that it's almost impossible to correct that unless done at the time of planting. I wish I had better news for you. But bare root roses do take up to 3+ years to really hit their stride, and I assume you are fertilizing regularly.
    I've found that my favorite roses in MA/MD smell different here, and not for the better. They have more of an anise/black licorice undertone (like Yves Piaget), although on the plus side, the fruity roses which I don't care for, smell better/sweeter. Like the rose, Secret (white shaded pink at edges) which in MA/MD had a hint of fruitiness, here is pure sweet, and one of my top all time picks for Fremont, CA - ridiculously strong grower, disease resistant, moderately shiny leaves, beautiful form & great scent. I haven't found a lavender I like as much. Memorial Day comes closest, scent is lovely, but the pale lavender (a litttle too pale for my ideal) fades to almost blush pink/white as the flower opens. On the other hand, if you like bicolors, Sheila's Perfume (yellow-peach edged pink) is my other top pick for Fremont. Also ridiculously strong grower, shiny leaves, disease resistant, great hybrid tea-like form, flowers like crazy and scent to die for. If you had to fault it, you could say if the flowers had a few more petals, they would open a little slower and last longer, but with so many flower, who cares!
    Hope that helps, take care, Mich (aka Michifur)

    http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=5731&tab=32

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago


    Very interesting. Your "rotten fruit" comment reminds me of Memorial Day, though manure was great for Jude the Obscure.


    Straw, based on your observations, I wonder if my sandy soil is more alkaline than we assumed, not acidic?


    Memorial Day smells like rotten fruit, Jude smells great, and Meilland roses are doing super- does that sound acidic or alkaline?

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lavenderlace: Jude smells great with horse manure here too. Horse manure is alkaline due to the shell lime & other products used to suppress odor. Also Texas & my North Chicago soil is high in lime. So if you have well-water like mine, the tap-water is very alkaline at pH near 9.

    Meilland roses like alkaline pH, since southern France is vastly alkaline clay. Meilland roses with dark-green & large & glossy foliage like Betty White, Liv Tyler, Dee-lish, Sweet Promise, Bolero bloom easily in my alkaline clay. Austin roses with LARGE & GLOSSY foliage like Pat Austin & Evelyn also like alkaline clay.

    If your bottom clay layer is cloudy in red-cabbage-juice, it means the pH is high, and there's free-calcium. My top dark-clay isn't cloudy in red-cabbage juice, the high-magnesium made calcium less available. But my bottom yellowish clay is very cloudy, with free calcium that raise pH.

    Here's a link that shows how HIGH calcium levels vs. super-low magnesium in tap water are across the country, esp. in North Chicago and Texas. I take magnesium daily to sleep better. My kid really likes high-magnesium veggies like okra, spinach.

    BEST SITE ON LOW MAGNESIUM LEVELS IN TAP WATER OF CITIES:

    http://www.mgwater.com/mgrank.shtml

    Below link shows the calcium level in water across the nation, with a map. I'm in the red-area (highest in calcium, with hard-water):

    http://www.water-research.net/images/hardwatermap1.jpg

  • totoro z7b Md
    7 years ago

    Maybe the reason my Koko Loko is so fragrant now is because I gave it and all my roses some Coop Poop in September (with copper). Or is fragrance always less in the heat of summer?

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Straw, great charts, thanks!

    It's hard to tell because I can only expand the size so much but I think I'm on the red and white zone lines. But my well water tests at 7.5 and we can certainly smell sulphur if the filters aren't changed constantly.

    Totoro, that Koko Loko bloom was beautiful and I'm going to have to put it on my list now that you say that it has fragrance. Straw has said before that chicken manure helps with scent so it sounds likes yours likes it!

  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    Straw - alkaline soil. That's not good is it? Roses like more acidic don't they? I'm definitely using chicken manure this coming summer!!! I think about it a lot ... :) Oooh!!! I just saw your bouquet!!! Stunning!!! Such lovely roses and colors!! Oh my!! Oh, I just love it when blooms get better fragrance the next year!! Tchaikosky's fragrance sounds wonderful - candy/floral!!! My favorite!!

    Totoro - Oh wow!!!! Your Koko Loko is stunning!!! I love it!!!! Swoon! Love your Sombreuil!!!!! And the fragrance wafts!!! Oh heavenly!!!! :)

    Vaporvac - I found that too - scents that I didn't like... I know love! And vice versa. For example I used to like Frederic Mistral's fragrance - but I started hating it so much that I gave it away. / Too bad about your big fat bud. :( Disappointing. OTOH - what are the cheap Austins you bought? I would love to know! :)

    Anna - I've always thought about getting Radiance Perfume if I had a chance. It's so nice to know that the fragrance is great!! OTOH - blooms that blow quickly... meh. But there's a big difference between your zone 10 and my zone 3...the blooms may last a lot longer here. Hmmmm....sounds like a rose I should keep looking for. :) Yours is beautiful!! Love the intense yellow!!

    I am so happy that Straw talked about how good chicken manure is!!! :)

    Carol






  • totoro z7b Md
    7 years ago

    Another thing I like about Koko Loko is how the blooms age from tan to a mauve color. Also it is vigorous and great repeat in a mostly shady spot. I may have to plant more of these if my other shade tolerant roses don't perform.

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago

    Oh, now I'm really fascinated by Koko Loco if it does well in shade and has a nice scent! Can it handle clay? Do the blooms shatter quickly?


    Straw, what are the chickens eating that is so agreeable to scent? Are there different kinds of manure available, such as for corn fed versus range-fed that just eats bugs? Which one works best (assuming that there is a choice)?


    Are there any roses that would smell worse with chicken manure?

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lavenderlace: Seaweed from Southern CA (Mesa Costa) has alkaline clay soil and her Koko loco (grafted-on-Dr.Huey) blooms well. HMF stated this on Koko Loco leaves "Medium, semi-glossy, medium green foliage. " So Koko Loco is in between the large/glossy that likes alkaline clay, versus the small/matte leaves that like loamy soil.

    Folks put minerals (copper, zinc, and boron) in chicken-feed.

    http://www.soilminerals.com/compost_manure_humus.htm
    "Going back to the chicken manure with the high levels of Copper, Zinc, and Boron, where did those come from? It turns out that commercial livestock growers and feed manufacturers are well aware of the value of and need for minerals in the diet."

    Those minerals increase the flavor/scent. My Mom's 5-acre land used to be a chicken-farm, and the first few years we grew that sweetest corn and veggies. I asked Mom if she put sugar in her zucchini and corn !! After 30+ years on that land, there's a decline in flavor/sweetness when we used chemical fertilizer.

    When I checked the reviews for chicken manure, one lady reported the same " sweeter veggies". This year I didn't use chicken-manure for my tomatoes, I used leaves & Tomato-Tone & red-lava-rock .. and the tomatoes are less sweet, my kid refuses to eat fresh tomato this year. Last year with cocoa mulch & chicken manure she ate lots of those sweet cherry tomatoes.

    Range-fed chickens love corn. Mom used to raise chickens to clean out her corn-field. Range-fed chickens consume more veggies scraps than bugs. The type of food chickens eat do affect the flavor of their eggs.

    When I was in grade school in a tiny lot, Mom raised chickens that fed on bugs, in addition to corn, and I didn't care for the flavor of their meat. I definitely like the veggies-fed chickens roaming on a 5-acre land better.

    One time I bought "high-omega-3" eggs .. and it stank like fish .. they used fish-meal to feed the chickens !! My kid refused to eat those "fish-flavor" boiled eggs. From that time, I make sure that my eggs say "vegetarian-fed diet" on grains or flax-seeds.

    Chicken manure brings out the best in the "old rose" and "clove" scents in purple roses, some Austins, and old-rose-garden like Comte de Chambord.

    Horse manure brings out the best in myrrh scent and fruity scent. Mary Magdalene was mild in myrrh, until I put horse manure and the myrrh became magnificent like $$$ frankincense. Pink Peace (grafted on Dr.Huey) didn't have much scent for 2 years, until I put horse manure in September, and the fruity scent came forth, still NOT AS GOOD as own-root-Pink-peace (secreted less acid).

    Which brings back to Carol question: " Straw - alkaline soil. That's not good is it? Roses like more acidic don't they? " Answer: alkaline soil is NOT good for roses grafted on multiflora, but alkaline soil is fantastic for roses grafted on Dr.Huey, I had to put 4 cups of lime (pH 9) in the planting hole of Pink Peace (grafted on Dr. Huey).

    Alkaline soil is NOT good for certain Austin roses which are wimpy as own-root: W.S. 2000, Lady Emma Hamilton, Eglantyne, and certain Kordes like Deep Purple, Shocking Blue (with multiflora-parentage).

    Alkaline soil is NOT good for the 7-leaflet roses with mulftiflora-parentage & less thorns (Excellenz von Schubert, Annie L. McDowell, Duchess de Rohan). But alkaline soil is excellent for French Meilland roses, with 5-leaflet and bloom well with alkaline-tap-water.

    Also if a rose has 7 to 9 leaflet but VERY THORNY, like Rugosa or my Centifolia Variegata B., then it's drought-tolerant. I killed 2 Centifolia this year: one 5-leaflet for suckering, and the other 7-leaflet for nasty thorns. Both are drought-tolerant.

    For pictures of 7-leaflet (most Austin) that needs acidic rain versus more drought-tolerant 5-leaflet (French Meilland), see below. The exception is Austin Strawberry Hill, which has large & dark-green & glossy & 5-leaflet and blooms well at nearby alkaline clay rose park.

    http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4252064/how-to-fertilize-link?n=9

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Great info, thanks Straw!

    Do worm castings also change the scent also? Do we need to worry about the wood in mulch on top affecting the scent?

    If the horse manure comes from stock that has been fed minerals, especially copper, does that change your opinion on whether it will affect the scent or is it just trial and error?

    I know that everybody's nose is different! Is it possible that my Memorial Day's rotten fruit scentl would smell lovely to somebody else? Or just more likely that the manure affected it?

    I'm glad that we can all agree on Jude the Obscure, trying to find more like it!

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago

    Straw wrote:

    "Which brings back to Carol question: " Straw - alkaline soil. That's not good is it? Roses like more acidic don't they? " Answer: alkaline soil is NOT good for roses grafted on multiflora, but alkaline soil is fantastic for roses grafted on Dr.Huey, I had to put 4 cups of lime (pH 9) in the planting hole of Pink Peace (grafted on Dr. Huey)."

    _______________________________________________


    So does that mean alkaline isn't a problem for own root roses except for those certain ones that you listed? I appreciate your patience so much, thanks!

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lavenderlace: Carol in Canada uses worm casting, she would know if that helps with scent. "When I've had my vermicompost tested the results have sometime come back high (once as 2-1-1), but more commonly much lower (1-0.5-0 or 0.5-0-0) typically with high calcium (these probably differ depending on what I've fed the worms)."

    http://wormmainea.blogspot.com/2012/12/n-p-k-value-of-vermicompost.html

    Memorial Day is listed in HMF as "damask scent". My Comte de Chambord is listed in HMF as "damask scent". My experience with 4-year old own-root Comte: scent is best with chicken-manure, and lesser quality with horse manure.

    The amount of phosphorus is very high in Coop-Poop at NPK 2-4-3, compare to NPK of horse manure at 0.95 - 0.3 - 1.5. An excerpt from below link on horse manure "Horse manure also contains many other plant macro- (e.g. calcium and magnesium) and micro- (e.g. copper and zinc) nutrients."

    http://www.acrcd.org/Portals/0/Equine%20Fact%20Sheets/ManureMgtBooklet.pdf

    Many sites point to phosphorus & copper are essential for scent/flavor in flowers. For veggies crop, "Potassium, sulfur, and boron are three of the essential nutrients that need special mention with regards to production of quality vegetables in general."

    http://njfarmfresh.rutgers.edu/documents/CanSoilFertilityImproveTomatoFlavor.pdf

    My vote goes to no-odor Coop-poop NPK 2-4-3 as best in boosting scent, high in phosphosrus & potassium, plus very high in copper, zinc, boron and manganese.

    Here's info. on trace elements of manures by University of Wisconsin:

    University of Wisconsin and trace elements in manures

    "Average concentrations for 87 dairy, 10 swine and 24 poultry manure samples are in Table 1. Swine and poultry manure contained similar amounts of Zn (zinc), Cu (Copper) and Mn (Manganese) and was approximately 10-100 times higher than in dairy manure ... Swine and poultry manure also contained about 10 times more Selenium than Dairy."

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lavenderlace: With regard to your question "So does that mean alkaline isn't a problem for own root roses except for those certain ones that you listed."

    Answer: "Agree, vigorous own-roots that bloom well actually do better with alkaline soil, if there's acidic rain to release the alkaline-minerals. I like horse manure at pH 8 for its trace elements that deepen the color of blooms, and I like chicken manure for its trace elements to enhance fragrance.

    Below is the deep color of Christopher Marlowe, fertilized with horse manure, it still smells good if chicken manure is used concurrently. When I dug up this own-root Christopher Marlow this fall to fix my rock-hard clay, its roots was chunky & woody and much bigger than normal Dr. Huey-rootstock.

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago z5
  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago

    Excellent info, thank you Straw!

  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    Straw - your Christopher Marlow is gorgeous!!!!! I love the colors!

    So how do I make my potted soil less alkaline? Could I do that merely by adding chicken manure??

    I really don't know if my vermicultured soil helps with fragrance. I don't remember how the fragrance was before I started using it. Sorry.

    Carol

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Carol: Multiflora-rootstock doesn't produce much acid, even less than own-root. I dug up OWN-ROOT Comte de Chambord, soil is loamy, thanks to aggressive root that broke down minerals easily.

    I dug up Comte (grafted on multiflora), and soil is rock-hard .. no acid produced by multiflora-root to utilize hard-clay-minerals. Thus multiflora-rootstock needs to be spoon-fed SOLUBLE fertilizer.

    For multiflora-rootstock or wimpy own-roots that don't produce much acid, alfalfa meal (pH 5.8) on top helps, same with acidic cracked corn (pH 4). Gypsum with 17% sulfur and sulfate of potash with 21% also provide acid. Blood meal at NPK 12-0-0 is also acidic.

    I checked the pH of composted worm casting in U. of Kentucky green-house study, and it stated pH of 6.82, versus pH of 8.21 for horse manure.

    http://www.uky.edu/hort/sites/www.uky.edu.hort/files/documents/orgfert3.pdf

    No-odor chicken manure is actually alkaline, thanks to the oyster-shell-lime in chicken feed & also the alkaline minerals used to de-odor the coop.

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago

    Straw, that's an excellent chart, thank you so much!


    It seems like I will be making the soil more acidic with the castings than with the coarse sand I had previously assumed was acidic until reading Straw's previous research of sand at 7.5 (my bagged sand tested exactly the same).

  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    Yes, I do "spoon feed" my roses with solubles. So that's good. :) And I do use alfalfa pellets in the spring. I do use worm castings and leachate. So all of that looks good. I started adding gypsum this past summer.

    So do you think I should use chicken manure? It sounds wonderful...but maybe too alkaline???

    Carol

  • Anna
    7 years ago

    Carol: I think you could put chicken manure right now when they are dormat to give a good kick for the spring... That's what I am doing here in California but I am not sure about your winter and timing. Let's see what Straw says. ;)

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Anna: Agree to that for CA. Roots can still grow when the temp. is above 58 F so the phosphorus & potassium in Chicken manure is good for roots. Plus chicken manure is best when it's cool & rainy for warm zone. Coop-poop at NPK 2-4-3 is much lower in nitrogen, thus safe for pre-spring-fertilization.

    Carol: Chicken manure is slightly alkaline, I saw white mold on that during spring rain, and mold grows when it's slightly alkaline to slightly acidic. Since you grow roses in pots with loamy soil, the release of chicken manure is fast. Best during spring warm-up with tons of acidic rain.

  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    Ahhh!!! That makes sense!! We get a lot of rain until August...so I can use it in June/July. Thank you!!!

    Carol

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    An excerpt on rose fragrances from below link:

    http://www.gardenguides.com/78104-different-fragrances-roses.html

    "Musk is a popular rose fragrance that has a delicate, yet lingering scent. Several hybrid musk roses known for their musk fragrances include Pax, Felicia, Cornelia, Buff Beauty, Daphne and Vanity.

    Fruit Fragrances

    The hybrid tea rose "Rosemary Harkness" has the fresh aroma of passion fruit and is orange-pink. Comtesse de Provence is the name of a Romantica rose that smells like sun-ripened apricots. "Sweet Juliet" is an Austin English rose that has a scent of lemon mixed with some grapefruit smell. Another English rose, known as "Jude the Obscure," smells and looks like peach ice cream.

    Spicy Fragrances

    Although the rose known as Honey Perfume suggests a perfume that smells like honey, it actually has a warm, spicy smell. Sun Sprinkles is a miniature rose also known for its spicy, as well as musky, fragrance. The hybrid tea rose known as Elle also has a spicy fruity fragrance. Elle produces pastel pink flowers that are excellent cutting flowers. Another hybrid tea rose, Double Delight, has a spicy-sweet aroma Wild Spice roses smell spicy.

    Unusual Fragrances

    These include roses with smells as diverse as honey, pepper, wine, tea, fern or moss and honeysuckle. The Rosa Moschata is an example of one of the many honey-smelling roses. Roses with a pepper scent include China roses, such as The Bourbons Maggie and La Reine des Violettes. The deep purple-red Gallicas varieties such as Tuscany have a wine scent. Tea roses are so-named because they smell like fresh tea leaves."

    http://www.gardenguides.com/78104-different-fragrances-roses.html

    Khalid Waleed (zone 9b Isb) thanked strawchicago z5
  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago

    That's interesting, Straw!! I didn't realize that Tea roses are called that because of the tea smell of the leaves!! I've always wondered if all the Tea rose flowers smelled like tea. Thanks!

    Carol

  • lavenderlacezone8
    7 years ago

    Souv.dlM is supposed to smell like tea but so far, I haven't cared for it.

    I don't drink a lot of tea but never noticed it smelling lovely, LOL! Are there some kinds that do? (OK, this has to go down as my biggest newbie question yet!)

  • strawchicago z5
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Lavenderlace: Agree on SDLM .. zero scent at Chicago Botanical garden.

    I don't think tea smell lovely either, except for Peach-flavored tea. Lady of Shalott smells like black tea with fruits .. I'll rate it a 1 out of 10 for scent, versus Comte de Chambord a 10 for best scent.

    Carol: How's your rose-rootings doing? Check out the below link, where I post pics. of rootings via pop-bottle ... best if someone has lots of sun like Texas folks. My rootings would take more if I have more sun. Sun is needed for photosynthesis to make new leaves.

    http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4313593/soil-mix-for-indoor-baggie-rose-rooting-vs-outdoor-rooting-with-rain?n=10

  • rosecanadian
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    So far two are still alive. I have them with an inverted plastiic container (nut container - so quite big) which I spray with water every other day to keep moisture in the container. I read your link on getting roses to root. Very informative!! Wish I had known about the cactus soil earlier. But I'll remember it for next year!

    Carol

  • strawchicago z5
    4 years ago

    bump up for reference.

  • strawchicago z5
    3 years ago

    Pea gravel UP the scent in roses big time. Also I detected zero scent on Honey Perfume at the rose park. But many people raved about Lemon Spice scent.

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    2 years ago

    This is such an AMAZING thread packed with so much good info. Thank you to all who contributed to it.
    🌸
    StrawChicago: I agree with Betty White has one of the top scents that lasts and lasts, even once she cut. My only issue is with her blooms being super sensitive to browning… and what appears to the thrip damage. How do you manage and prevent this from happening without having to resort to systemic pesticides?

  • Holly Webster(7bNC)
    2 years ago

    Yes, this thread is a rose gardening seminar! Glad to see it's still around!

  • rosecanadian
    2 years ago

    Ann - I got rid of mine for that reason.

  • Ann-SoCalZ10b SunStZ22
    2 years ago

    Rosecanadian: it’s such a shame about Betty White being so sensitive to thrip damage. Because if it weren’t for this one short-coming… she would be such an incredible rose. I adore her bloom form, color and fragrance.

  • rosecanadian
    2 years ago

    Yeah, I know. It's a shame. But, I don't like having a rose that bugs me. A friend took it...she had wanted it for a long time. So it worked out well. :)

  • strawchicago z5
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Low nitrogen & Low phosphorus and high potassium & calcium was what helped with my Betty White. Both high nitrogen and high phosphorus attract thrips. High potassium & calcium (2 part potassium to 1 part calcium) helped with Betty White. It's short since I use low-nitrogen. My garden is no-spray and I use organic fertilizers: horse manure, alfalfa meal and just a tiny bit of chicken manure NPK 2-4-3 (Coop Poop), plus red-lava-rock for high potassium & calcium.


    Below top bloom is Betty White:


    Below Left is Evelyn, right is Betty White:


  • Sunny Mississippi 8a
    last year

    @strawchicago z5 have you ever experimented with fish emulsion?

  • strawchicago z5
    last year

    Fish emulsion is too expensive for my many roses, but I was impressed when neighbor showed me a tiny pot with her pepper plant (loaded with fruits). She never changes the soil since fish emulsion is low-salt.