Wow, it must be hard to make rose decisions in a place where it's hard for a rose to die, Suzy. Sometimes i'm secretly glad when a rose that really doesn't thrive in my yard has the good grace to die over the winter, so I don't have to be a rose murderer. As for the rate of failure, it's definitely a product of being a zone pusher and wanting to try something different. Plenty of people in my zone have never lost a rose because they're smart enough to only plant roses suited for their climate- imagine that! I'm more like Ingrid, in sandandsun's timely quote, that I prefer to look at winter survival as a challenge rather than the roses of a particular type (or breeder) having a specific death wish in my garden. You're all absolutely right that knowing the breeder isn't enough to judge health, survival, or any other qualities in your yard. I absolutely do the kind of trial and error experimentation that Lyn was talking about in my own yard, it's just that I haven't really come up with particular patterns for what thrives in my yard, except for the obvious ones like "lavenders and russets are usually weak" (understatement of the year) or "roses with teas in their heritage are a long shot". Rick, I admire you for checking the breeding history of the roses, and it certainly would be a more logical approach with fewer failures. I'm afraid I don't follow the breeding history or even keep track of which parents do well for me, though I have noticed that climbers with New Dawn as a parent are likely to be a good match for my yard. Wow, Nastarana, I hadn't been familiar with Jacobus as a breeder but I looked up Dream Girl, and - wowza zowie is she ever! I love those fat blooms with swirled packed petals, and it's great to hear it thrives in zone 5. Might be a nice counterpart to Nahema on my fence. You ought to share your observations with Helpmefind, since there was very limited personal information on this rose. Where did you get yours? Cynthia

Campanula, you can certainly do that 2 season thing but in my opinion there's absolutely no need to. Just move it during its dormancy even without any soil on it's roots and no fibrous roots whatsoever. New fibrous roots will start growing immediately after re-plant unless soil is frozen (if it is you shouldn't move the rose in the first place). Remember this was probably the way it was originally sold to you. Any plant that goes into winter dormancy can be moved bare root as long as it can be pruned hard. I tend to think that this can be a better way of moving a rose in its dormancy than carrying a root ball with it since you will avoid issues with rootball soil incompatibility with soil in the new spot drainage wise and you will also avoid the odd chance of the 'pot' syndrome (i.e. the new roots growing all around the rootball as if they were in a pot rather than growing into the new soil). If however you want to do this 2 season exercise, you will have to hard prune the rose twice. Since you mentioned hybiscus have you tried moving one? They have a huge hellical tap root that goes very very deep like a giant corkscrew. They are beasts to uproot and sensitive after that. I have successfully managed to move a 10 year old one almost bare root and with severely cut back root system and this in the beginning of the summer season. It took a drip irrigator and a couple of seasons for it to recover but recovered it has. Since I did that I have no fear to move any rose although this is not something I practice regularly. Nik This post was edited by nikthegreek on Thu, Jan 9, 14 at 13:35

This is a complicated issue. It is no wonder you are confused. It varies according to the variety. Some roses are weak growers, and need the strength of a robust rootstock to enable them to perform. You see this mostly with some (not all) of the HTs. It is my experience that robust own root roses do catch up with grafted roses, but that weak growers do not. Growers in Florida have a nematode in their soil which attacks some rose varieties. Some do fine on their own roots, but others need to be grown on a particular rootstock (Fortuniana) to withstand the nematodes. Roses in cold climates are not really hardier on their own roots. What happens is that the cold can kill off the top growth of a rose while the root protected by the soil survives. If it is on its own roots, it has the potential of growing back true to type. If it is grafted, you will get the rootstock, not the rose you selected. One important issue is virus. Rose mosaic virus (RMV) is spread by grafting. If either the parent plant or the rootstock is virused, the new rose will be virused. Similarly, if you take a cutting from a virused plant and grow it on its own roots, that new rose will also be virused. Some people think that own root roses are less likely to be virused. This can be true, but only if the parent plant was clean. It is thought that healthy own root roses will probably live longer than grafted roses, because grafted roses can build up scar tissue at the graft and eventually fail. But a grafted rose can easily live twenty or thirty years, and no doubt longer. One member on the Roses forum mentioned having some grafted roses that were at least forty years old. I personally suspect that grafted roses will not live as long as some of Jaqueline3's hundred year old teas and chinas, but then most own-root roses don't get a chance to live that long either. Her garden stayed in the same family. If you sell your house, expect the new owners to replace your garden with their own. For this reason, longevity may not be an issue for you. I kinda like the idea of roses that outlive me (and I plan to be here a long time), but that is my romantic streak expressing itself. Rosefolly

Oh dearie me - off to babysit in Norwich this weekend and, as promised, arrived bearing roses (and some other stuff). The couple who own the house had obviously started to make a garden because I had previously noticed a little rose on the trellis. I spied a label so looked to check....only to lurch backwards in shock. The tiny, tiny little garden and 2 foot wide bit of trellis has Rambling Rector planted on it. For those not familiar with this monster rambler, this is tantamount to planting a dahlia in an eggcup. It is obviously a baby rose, planted just this year but will, in short order, eat the whole of the garden (it is even smaller than mine at around 28 square metres).Will have to contact the owners and hope they are reasonable and will agree to a replacement (we should get away with rose replant syndrome). Naomi is now custodian to Royal Celebration and the hulthemia, along with a purple salvia and some penstemons and a slew of tulips. Mild wet weather makes garden planting and dividing easy, if a bit damp.