sorry about the rant and thanks Poppy and Alex for taking the time to answer! This is just frustrating me so much since in order to have what *every* machine (even the cheap cheap ones) has in Europe I need to spend $2000!

To find a cold-fill profile washer, yes, $2000 or more. To find a machine that delivers reliably hot washes regardless of water heater robustness and variability, no; one can be found for half that or less. As Jane explores in the above article, looking for a machine with sanitize or allergen cycles will deliver targeted hot washes.

Akex's link should help you. Any machine with an on-board or integrated heater will heat water like a dishwasher and prevent the no hot water in tank scenario you describe, the North American machines just heat at 120v instead of the 220/240 of the European machines. No heater in machine, you get the tap temperature irrespective of water temp selected. For rxample, in my LG, if I select heavy duty cycle with steam, I get a minimum 130F hot water wash. Read Jane's article and enjoy shopping.

I am sorry. I read the article, but it does not answer any of my questions! If the heater only kicks in in the "sanitize/veryhot/NSF guaranteed" cycle, it does *not* mean that the integrated heater will heat the water in other cycles. Is this written somewhere which I missed? What I am understanding is that yes maybe I can get the very hot water in a sanitize/allergen cycle. It does not tell me that chosing "warm" or "hot" will give me the temperature I want. Unless you are telling me that the heater comes on all the time to adjust the temperature, which I believe it is not true both from reading a lot of threads on this site and by reading the single washer manuals.

just off the phone with Electrolux which just confirmed what I suspected. The internal heater will *only* kick in the in the "sanitize/veryhot" cycle. There is no temperature control in any other cycle: "Madame, if you chose "hot", but you have no more hot water in your electric water tank your wash will be done with whatever water the washer can pull in. If it is cold it will be a cold wash no matter what you select".

Out of curiosity I will now call the other <$2000 brands...

I cannot speak for other brands, but on the LG, the steam function operates on many other cycles than allergy and sanitize. No it's not continuous heating but you don't get that on the dish washer either, it heats to extra hot about 155F and gradually cools as the wash cycle progresses. The length of the cycle depends on the soil level selected. The manual won't tell you this but I have tested water temperatures with the available readout function over two years and found it to be consistent and accurate. On my model, extra hot is available on normal, heavy duty, bulky, comforter, kids wear, rugged, sanitary. Some of the unusual cycles duplicate what tweaking a basic cycle would do. What specifically are you looking for. The washer manufacturers decided the definition of levels of warm would be cooler than what most of us expected about 15 years ago. So called dumbed down machines. It's different on every machine. IMO the water temperature is one level lower than the named cycle i.e. warm =cool or tepid, hot = warm. Actual degree readings are rare or regarded as a trade secret.

Thanks Poppy. I am not familiar with the steam cycle as I never had one. And maybe that its the answer. What I am looking for is the certainty that if I set a temperature (call it C, F or warm) I will get it no matter what are the conditions outside the washer! And I don't mean a sustained temperature, but at least that temperature when the cycle starts.

By the way...no answer from Bosch..the CS does not have any information on when the heater kicks in.

afruscione, I afraid that your suspicions are correct. Most domestic machines do not guarantee temperatures, other than for the hottest and only in certain cycles, anymore. In my quest for a new machine this past summer I was confronted with this very issue as well. The only ones I found that would heat to target temp, across all temp ranges and in most cycles were Bosch, Miele and Asko. I ended up, as you've bemused, with a >2000USD Miele. Like you, I wanted to be able to reach the target temps that are the norm in Europe. It seems a no brainer but America is used to hot, warm, cold and majority are not worried what those temps are, sadly.

Good Luck in your quest!

As a European transplant I had a difficult time adjusting to American hot fill as well - I still find it bizarre that our dishwasher is hooked up to hot water only... I think you'll get what you are looking for with Miele. I don't have the Little Giants, but the W3038 and you can either do a cool prewash to get the effects of a profile wash, or "trick" it by setting the wash temperature to Cold or Warm, letting it fill and then adjusting it to Very Warm or Hot (it lets you change the water temperature in the first 5 minutes of the cycle or so). It can even be programmed for cold water only hookup which I'm assuming will lengthen the wash cycles, but I doubt you will have just a cold water pipe in a standard American laundry room.

Thanks amassther! Are you sure about the Bosch? It is a bit more "affordable" (AHAH!) and if it guarantees temperatures in more cycled than just "sanitize" I would be at least partially happy! How did you find the info? Any special channel?

By the way, page 42-44 of the Blomberg washer manual lists *all* the temperatures for *all* the cycles! At least they do not have this as a trade secret :)

Please confirm that you have service in your local area for any non mainstream brands of washers. It can be a real pain if you have a problem and the service tech won't come because you are "not in my area." Blomberg has had spotty reviews and limited service in many parts of the US. Have you considered looking for a used MIele or Asko machine? We have a couple of regular contributors who were happy with the preowned machines.

Yes thanks I have service in my area, but as others have pointed out (and I forgot) "Blomberg Washer must be purchased with Dryer DV17542 to be operational" !!! (quote from abt.com). Which is a bummer since my Bosch dryer works very well and I do not intend to change it as yet. I will ask my handyman husband who installed a 220V outlet and may be able to change the plug on the machine (but then maybe the warranty will not be valid?). Need more research! But the fact that they have no phone number is not a good sign for me...

I had a Nexxt Premium, that I had to move away from, that guaranteed temps on all cycles. It would even heat on cold, if the temp of incoming water was too low. I was going by my previous experience. Apparently I'm wrong, after a call to customer service. The new Bosch's do not heat as they used to. I'm not sure they understood my question, so you may want to do more research.

I will be buyng this washer in a few months..waiting for a great sale. As far has customer service goes on info about when the heater comes on is worthless. cause they dont know. After all it does have steam cycles and they can be added to many of the cycles. When I get it, I will run a full review for everyone on here. Id like to find some owners on here to hear what they have to say about it. Most reviews on HD sites will use only the normal or fast wash, not the fun cycles that clean real well.

Most reviews on HD sites will use only the normal or fast wash, not the fun cycles that clean real well

I bet the all wash in cold water and use cheap liquid detergent too. And never do a clean cycle on their washer. A recipe for mold and odor.

That's how I felt about it and still do. Did you get the matching dryer?

Beautiful machine! I will be needing a new machine soon. This may be the one.

practigal, no dryer. No room, no 240V. It's a 1967 condo, 120V only, 60 amp panel. Minimalist by today's norms. This is in the kitchen, which is an ongoing work in progress. We have a laundry room in the building, downstairs, where I can dry sheets and such. Everything else gets hung on a drying rack, cabinet pulls, and door frames. Great fun! Still figuring out how to line dry our Rough Linen sheets.

@cubedweller, regarding drying, could you mount a ceiling clothes airer that rises and lowers. The one I linked can hold 68lbs!

http://urbanclotheslines.com/cast-in-style-kitchen-maid-traditional-4-ceiling-clothes-airer.html

@enduring, that's pretty cool! We have metal studs, or something like that, in the ceiling, from which the sheetrock is hung. Above the studs is a substantial concrete ceiling/floor. I'll have to check around to find exactly what's up there. Prior to seeing this, I was considering a stainless steel cable (thin) stretched from wall to wall, at a point where I'd have enough room to hang a king sheet. It would be a permanent thing, but fairly unobtrusive when nothing is hanging from it.

I love challenges like this - thanks for adding a new dimension to it!

Cubedweller, look around their website, they have cable retractable lines too. But I really liked the weight holding capacity of the airer type systems.

enduring, yes, I'm having a great time looking around. Lot's of fun stuff. I like this IKEA curtain line, though it only supports 5kg, but something like this is what I had in mind. IKEA DIGNITET

Be sure the line is covered in vinyl so it doesn't stain your sheets.

something like that would be very handy.

CubeDweller how about something like this Over the Door Clothes Dryer? You could zig zag the sheet over the rods. It has 17 feet of hanging space and holds 50 pounds. I grew up in a tiny NYC walk-up and we had something like that over every door.

thank hhmorton, that's pretty neat. enduring, it would be a stainless steel cable, but clothes wouldn't come in contact anyway, they will be clipped to the cable. Even sheets: fold in half, clip at the fold line, so even the monster Rough Linen sheets (118" x 120") wouldn't touch the floor.

Electrolux update: Still awesome. We've run about 15 loads of laundry through it in its first week, and couldn't be happier.

With the LG, we leveled and leveled and leveled that thing, and still, spin cycles were usually very noisy events, with the spin stopping to try to rebalance the load fairly frequently.

I must confess, I did not level the Electrolux at all, beyond eyeballing it vs the adjacent dishwasher. It's under the counter in the kitchen, with no place to wrangle a level above, but I couldn't find my level anyway. Still, it spins up smoothly and quietly, even with a load of Levis. That was a nice surprise. I think a little of that is luck, but I think it's mostly just a better designed machine.

@cubedweller, so happy to hear the good news. It sure is a cute thing :) What have you done for increased hanging space?

@enduring, I'm going to try out the IKEA DIGNITET this weekend. Picked it up last night. For the price, it's worth a shot ($20 with extra support). I want to wash our Rough Linen sheets, so I need to get get going.

It'll be a good place to hang photos/art too. :-)

Yes I thought that the Electrolux was very interesting regarding its leveling. We did make an effort to level it. When it first starts to spin, it seems to be slowly thinking about what it's up to and then it spins. It's got that little clock counting down and it supposed to spin between this minute and that minute and it does. Having seen some of the other machines struggle to level and level and level for an extended period of time before finally giving up and spinning at an unusually low speed, I do wonder what Electrolux did that was so different... but I am happy it did it.

@enduring, the IKEA line is working very well. I weighed a wet bath towel (medium spin in the electrolux), and it came in at just under 2 lbs. The weight limit as per IKEA is 11 lbs. I only have room for three towels, so that worked well - plenty of margin.

On there now is the king Rough Linen sheet, and it is working well - this was the reason for the line in the first place. The house smells like Portfolio Linen at the moment, but that should dissipate as the sheet dries.

The clips are the ones used for ID badges, we have a bag of them from some project. They are chrome plated steel, so I'll have to keep an eye out for rust, otherwise they work great.

LOVE IT! Thanks for sharing your experience. It looks terrific and very unassuming.

Cube Dweller a little off topic but how hard was it to install the Ikea line. I live in a loft apartment in NYC with 12 ft ceilings and 9 ft. tall windows that start at the ceiling line. There is no space to hang a conventional curtain rod (though the previous owner did and it looks awful) and want to use that line to hang curtains I plan on making. And to make this laundry related, I plan to wash the fabric in my Malber washer and dry in my Malber dryer. LOL

Edit to add:

I love your drying solution. It looks great!

@hmorton, it was pretty easy-ish. Each end is secured by three screws (you supply, based on wall material), then the cable is secured to the simple end (vs. the complicated end) via two hex head screws - hex wrench supplied.

Drag the cable to the complicated end, complicated as it has a turnbuckle type extension to tighten the cable, and then cut the cable with diagonal cutters, aka wire cutters, bicycle brake cable cutters, etc, as per the instructions. Note the almost invisible plastic sleeve on each end of the cable - these hold the cable strands together, so before cutting the cable, push that almost invisible plastic sleeve back behind your intended cut. Secure as in the simple end, then turn the turnbuckle using the hex wrench until the cable is as tight as you dare.

Now, if the run is over 55", IKEA recommends additional supports every 55" max. My run was 157", but I only used 1, and it seems to be fine. You can see it mounted to the ceiling. At $5 a pop, you may as well go with their recommendation.

If mounting this support from the ceiling as I did, take note:

Assemble this support before doing anything else, and measure the height of the hole for the cable from the base. This distance should also be the height of the center of each end bracket from the ceiling. Otherwise you will have the cable running uphill or downhill from the wall to this post, depending on the direction of error. If you are mounting everything on the same plane, life is much easier.

Regardless, string that support post onto the cable before securing the complicated end, else you'll have to undo it all, and you'll have quite a time reinserting that squished cable back into the cable clamp.

Be aware of any interesting things behind the walls, such as sprinkler lines. Mine are at roughly the same height as my brackets, which made for very cautious drilling.

Thank you for such a detailed and very useful explanation. I will be careful of the various lines in the ceiling. This forum is great! There are such kind and sharing members.

@enduring - wondering what you ended up doing. Electrolux? Have been reading this thread and others. I am trying to decide between the Electrolux compact vs. their 517 larger model. My 20year old 3.1 capacity FL finally died. The size was perfect. (Goldilocks here). I'm a little concerned about going with a smaller capacity machine. Could I wash two bed pillows in such a small machine? Other than that and the occasional duvet, my loads are pretty small so wondering if a larger machine is overkill and with my small loads have spin issues. Also, I have 20yo compact gas dryer. I love it, but I suspect that will die soon too. Compact gas dryers don't exist any longer. So my choices are (a) go with the compact Electrolux and keep the current gas dryer hoping it lasts forever (b) replace both the washer and dryer with the larger capacity Electrolux and hope that spin issues aren't a concern with my mostly small loads. Thoughts?

Hi, I ended up finding a used Miele set dated around 2003? I have been very happy with it. I use electric dryers. The compact Electrolux is a condensing type dryer. That's what the new Mieles are too. As for load size, you can die king sized sheets in a compact, a duvet cover will fit, I've read here on GW. You can't fit king quilts or comforters in one. I have queen sized bedding, and I can put a medium thick poly filled comforter in my Miele, but it's a tight fit. My Miele will hold 2 standard sized pillows for wash. I will never have king sized bedding because my house is too small for that size of bed. I find that some times I have to wash before I have a full load too. The Miele I have is the regular one, at 2.01 cf (I believe). I now have 2 sets and I love my "laundromat".

enduring I like that you explained what you can wash in a 2 cu ft washer. Most consumers do not realize that front load compact washers can handle most laundry loads for 2 or 3 persons as we sort clothes. Front load compact washers save a lot of water and are more gentle on the clothes. The high speed spin shortens the dry time.

I have an old Malber compact washer and a matching electric dryer. I can wash almost everything I need, queen sized sheets, pillow cases and a duvet cover at one time. Three large 60X 36 heavy towels and several wash clothes and hand towels. But most of the time my loads are small. I could wash two thin standard size bed pillows at one time but not anymore than that. I have washed a very thin king size summer quilt but it was tight. Once I got the machine leveled I never had a problem with spinning. Hope this helps on size choice.

hmorton glad to see you chime in. Compact washers handle most loads for the average family. I just had a friend that installed compact laundry upstairs in their house as they were tired of going up and down the steps to do laundry, They kept the old washer and dryer for time when they need to do more when the kids come home with their grandchildren and the laundry piles up.

First, the compact Electrolux washer does, in fact, have an onboard heater. But no temperatures are specified for hot, warm, cold or what they call "eco cold."

A chart shows which water temperatures operate on which cycles. Many are preset.

There is a setting for the washer to what appears to be a profile wash which I define as a cold prewash followed by a specific temperature set main wash plus 3 rinses.

I have a Miele Euro size machine -- essentially a compact. I do a set of king sheets weekly. It also does a king quilted (but not thick) blanket cover/bedspread. It will do a king blanket. However, very heavy bath sheets (800-850 g) were problemmatic. I did only 2 at a time because they become super heavy when saturated with water. I've had trouble with the spin washing these. One reason I went to lighter weight (500 g) bath sheets and towels. No issues on washing those at all. They don't strain the machine.

The Miele does have definitions for the various water temperatures and my tests have shown them to be very accurate. However, it has a hot and cold fill vs the 240 v previous Miele which was cold-water fill only. My previous Asko compact was 240v and cold-water fill only. When the controller board went I got only cold washes vs the Miele when the heater broke I got very warm washes just not hot or sanitize. Both unfortunate but essentially explains how the difference in the fill affects the machine.

For most of my loads the machine size is perfect. As someone said upthread, for 2-4 people and someone who sorts it's just fine.

I thought that I would be better off with 2.4 which is closer to the 3.1-2ish that I had than going up to today's new "standard" 4.5 and that was true. To check ask yourself this: When was the last time you had to break a load up into two loads vs feeling guilty for running too a small load? I never had to break up a load up but I felt guilty a lot.

Thank you so much everyone. I am a mainly small load person too. Mostly workout clothes, kids clothes, queen or full sheets. I loved my Kenmore/Fridgidaire compact because it was the same depth and height of the current compacts, only 3" wider (27") but held 3.1cu - enough to easily wash 2 down pillows (and handle the weight) or very lightweight queen down comforter + 2 sheets, or 5-6 towels.

Based on everything posted here, I think I will stick with the small size and go with the Electrolux compact unit as it should work for most my needs. I will appreciate the heater as my current need is cleaning my son's very dirty and smelly high school football uniform. We might have to switch to thinner towels or just scatter towels in various wash loads.

Wondering about bath rugs? My current FL could fit a cotton 48x28 rug with a 22" x 35" one. It could handle the weight (although maybe it really couldn't and that's why the machine finally wore out).

I will just keep my compact gas dryer until it dies. I love the compact gas dryer. It can dry a set of 5-6 towels in about 30 minutes. I don't want to give up speed plus the cost of using running a gas one for 30 minutes, I have to imagine, is much less than running an electric one for twice the amount of time (no solar panels yet).

The only downside of this option is that I will not be able to stack unless I build a shelf because the dryer is 3" wider. Alternatively I guess I'll put them side by side.

Hoping this machine lasts 20 years too! :)

@practigal - yes! Same feeling which is why I am leaning toward the compact. Most of the time I throw in small loads and I batch dry them. I throw in my workout clothes with kids clothes, then wash sheets, then run the dryer with both loads. The wash times were short - ~20-30 min so I would hang the wet clothes while the second load was running then throw everything in the dryer together.

I sort so I don't ever do towels with other clothes. Just do towel loads as they are a different weight. I don't find it any trouble to do another load or two as it lets me launder each one optimally in terms of temperature and detergent.

I have 3 bathroom rugs. One is about 36" x 24 or so. That I do separately. I do two smaller ones together.

As compact sgo my Miele is a heavyweight. But I've learned to be careful with my big bath towels -- granted they are bath sheets and very large. Nothing else is an issue. Last night I did a very small wool load with about 6 pairs of wool sox. Perfect.

If I was in the market for a new compact I'd be looking at E'lux. While it doesn't seem to offer as much control as the Miele or Asko in terms of temperature but it has the heater -- but none of the Asko issues and is less expensive than the Miele. Looks like a really good option to me and folks here seem to like theirs a lot.

My compact elux does two bath mars just fine, there is a loud thump or two when they redistribute around the washer at the beginning of the spin but they get nice and clean.

I would build a shelf for the dryer anyway that way you can deal with each machine without disturbing the other (maybe by the time you need a new one there will be a gas dryer to fit the space?)

My compact elux does two bath mars just fine, there is a loud thump or two when they redistribute around the washer at the beginning of the spin but they get nice and clean.

I would build a shelf for the dryer anyway that way you can deal with each machine without disturbing the other (maybe by the time you need a new one there will be a gas dryer to fit the space?)

Love this machine! I've done about 15 loads already including a queen sheet set, 2 standard pillows, a light weight full down comforter with a small blanket and just now I did the two bathroom rugs. I had to run an errand and didn't get back in time to listen to how it handled the spin cycle as the rugs are heavy cotton. But when I got home, all seemed fine. At 2.4cu, this unit is big enough for our everyday needs. Very glad to have gone with a small unit.

FWIW, I tried to use a cooking probe thermometer to test the water temps. I put it on sanitize cycle and was able to pause the machine and stick the probe in the middle of the clothes. I realize this isn't accurate, but it gives a sense of how hot the temps might get. Temp read about 124 and that was at the beginning of the sanitize cycle. I tried to pause further in the cycle but it would not allow me to open the door - I presume because the temps were too hot. Anyway, this machine is likely not getting to temps over 140, but my clothes are getting clean and this feels like a solid machine. So far, very happy. I'm amazed at how little water it uses. I had one of the original Frigidaire FL machines purchased about 20 years ago and while more water efficient than the TL at the time, it still used a lot of water as I could see the clothes sitting in water during the cycle. With the Electrolux, the clothes are wet, but they are not standing in water.