Unhealthy, yellowing leaves on Sandia and New Mexico Chillies

8 years ago

I planted my chilis apx 4 weeks ago in 5 gal buckets with bottoms removed. This was to provide protection from the dog and three young children. Usually, I plant my chillies in a garden area directly adjacent and they do great (no buckets), but I had to place them here this year because of limited space. They were planted in store bought garden soil with plant food. They have received frequent watering and get at least 6 hours of direct sun each day. I live in climate zone 6a. I usually have great success with chillies, but they haven't grown and appear to be getting more sickly and yellow with each passing day.

Does anyone have a suggestion? If anyone knows what is going on, your insight would be greatly appreciated, hopefully before they perish. THANKS!

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woohooman San Diego CA zone 10a

8 years ago

The way you planted them is the problem.

1) You have them in buckets not getting sun and you have potting soil or garden soil on top of the native soil, which isn't necessarily bad but if you haven't prepared the native soil to allow the roots to make make an easy transition.

You can try, but I doubt it will be a success, to transplant them into fresh buckets with holes drilled in the bottoms using a soilless potting mix. This time make sure you come to with a couple inches from the top with soil. If you want to protect them from dogs and children(whether in a container or in ground), throw a tomato cage around them. Note: Large fruited annuums, like New Mexican chiles, do much better in ground than in containers. So perhaps next year think about a raised bed or straight in ground or use containers that are bigger than 5 gal. buckets.

Next, I have a few issues with chris051443's assessment. Sorry Chris :(

I won't comment on the coco coir, since I've never used it but I've heard it's great at starting seeds.

-----

2) "I'd never use that amount its primarily used to retain moisture in smaller pots

The degradation of the mulch will rob the plant of nitrogen as with any compost that still contains bark etc

Mulcing is good for soil in small amounts it can also increase the
soils bacterial content and the mulch will always be breaking down and
releasing amounts of other nutrients and minerals.

-----

Disagree entirely.

a) It can be used in ground, in small pots, in raised beds, etc. to not only conserve water but to cut down on weeds, regulate soil temps, and add nutrients to the soil.

b) Well aged mulch will NOT rob the soil of any nutrients. FRESH wood chips will, however, but even then it would have to be incorporated into the soil, which, at that time doesn't qualify as a mulch. Mulch is defined as lying on TOP of the soil, not be a part of. In any case, refrain from using FRESH wood chips on vegetables and other annuals and reserve them for perennials and tress. Better yet, age those chips.

c) BARK does not rob the soil of nutrients. One reason why bark based soil mixes are so popular nowadays. Bark has great durability whether as the soil or as a mulch. The SAPWOOD(basically wood chips) found in many bags of bark does rob the soil of Nitrogen if used as a soil mix. Why it's always a good idea to sift out the sapwood when making a bark based soil. Used a a mulch though, the sapwood doesn't need to be sifted.

3) "Garden soil is always a must add component

It contains a good biodiversity of bacteria and fungi"

-----

This is true and should be reserved for just that--- the GARDEN. However, it's very difficult to maintain a healthy microherd bacteria and fungi)in containers unless they're very large containers. Stick to a soilless potting mix for containers or use large containers like half wine barrels. Something as large that temperature swings and water swings will still support the microherd.

4) "If I was you I'd repot with less thick mulch it can overload the soil
with rotting type organisms which have been known to eat at the roots."

----

Thickness of mulch is not an issue and unless you're using diseased organic matter as your mulch, does not promote bad, unhealthy soil. I've mulched with a thickness of four inches or so before with no ill effects. However, you don't want mulch touching the stalk of your plants, so pull back on mulch about 3-4 inches from the stalk.

5) "PS mulch is no good for pots IMO if you want to cover the top to prevent mould etc you could use small pebbles"

-----

Try telling that to my very healthy potted MULCHED plants. Also, I can see the merits of rocks as a mulch, but they heat up very high. And much like most of the growers in the U.S., we're looking to cool our soils a tad in the dog days of summer. I can see it's merits possibly in the spring when we're trying to warm the soil, but unless you live in a very mild climate or are an indoor grower, I just can't see it as an effective MULCH.

Once again, sorry Chris. But mulch is your friend.

Kevin

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Comments (6)

aniajs
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
What have your high/low temps been like? Peppers especially will really sulk if they aren't warm enough.

The fact that they're down in the buckets might mean that they're getting a lot less sun than 6 hours, which is usually the minimum recommended exposure.

When you planted them, did you break up the soil under them or just plop them on top and cover with the garden soil? You might have problems with water drainage/retention from the two layers of soil not being mixed.

Yellowing foliage can mean too much or lack of nutrients, among other things. What kind of fertilizer are you using?

You might want to check and see if the plant roots are spreading into your topsoil or if they are only growing in the bagged soil. Sometimes they don't like that sharp change in soil type and won't cross it.

Hard to tell, but the soil both in and around the buckets looks kind of dry. You might consider watering deeply, less frequently.

Edited to add that next time you might consider using those metal tomato cages for protection instead of the buckets. They don't work too well for tomatoes, but they are perfect for peppers.
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naturemitch
8 years ago
Right away I think of the soil you're using and too much moisture. Garden soil in containers can be problematic, especially with water movement. Add to that, your frequent watering. How big are those buckets? For me, all my container gardening is done with a soilless mix, not garden soil. And no frequent watering unless you are experiencing extremely high temps and have very small buckets.
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chris051443
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
The mulch

I'd never use that amount its primarily used to retain moisture in smaller pots

The degradation of the mulch will rob the plant of nitrogen as with any compost that still contains bark etc

Mulcing is good for soil in small amounts it can also increase the soils bacterial content and the mulch will always be breaking down and releasing amounts of other nutrients and minerals.

I would advise 1 part Coco coir 1 part compost and half a part non clay garden soil.

The reason why people sometimes never see greater amount of growth with coco coir is because it's lacking minerals and nutrients.

Garden soil is always a must add component

It contains a good biodiversity of bacteria and fungi

It contains different types of minerals than no plant matter compost can even get close to.

If I was you I'd repot with less thick mulch it can overload the soil with rotting type organisms which have been known to eat at the roots

Also there is no harm in planting deeper or covering the stem in up to 3 inches under the leaves.it will take on new root growth and will make the plant more rigid.if you do this avoid watering from the top for a few weeks as you may experience stem rot.instead sit the pot in water for 15 minutes and let it wick some water up .allow the stem to adjust.

And don't water when you do this for a week if you use Coco coir because it will retain too much moisture and will rot the stem

Hope this will help

PS mulch is no good for pots IMO if you want to cover the top to prevent mould etc you could use small pebbles
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chris051443
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I still stand firm with my beliefs

Also apologies accepted and thanks..

You have some good points and I'm sure mulching is fine for you ..but it's not perfect for your plants.

I shall add some more points on the matte so we can understand each other better.

I used to mulch a fair bit hehe.

I believe Mulching is essential in certain environments and there are many factors to support the need to use a good quality organic mulch..

1.I am already aware that bark is very good for mulching in comparison to others.

2.Mulching can trap accumulate and grow a lot of different types mould in Comparison to pebbles

3.Most mulch sold these days is chemically treated and this will leach into the soil and disrupt organisms in the soil.Escpecially wood chips

3.If you over water or your plants become waterlogged and you can be screwed without you even knowing what's going on underneath all that mulch.Unless you dig a hole and check hehe

3.Grey pebbles are not going to get hot at all never mind white pebbles. Dear friend the only cons are they may offer less heat insulation, they may burn the underside of the leaves on a really hot sunny day and are only slightly less water retaining than mulch.

all you have to do is keep track of watering and you're fine without anything...which is why I like coco coir.

I don't use Mulch or pebbles personally.

If i get ever mould (rare) I sprinkle some more soil mix on top to cover to kill the mould, job done.

With coco coir, when the pot needs watering I can clearly see a dry layer on top whilst just underneath is always still moist but never dry. that's why coco coir in the mix is so good IMO.it has the properties of mulch and more ..you just have to buy some and check out the dynamics of coco coir.

I would rather use coco coir than risk the headache and hassles of mulch.

Mulch will only ever add miniscule amounts of nutrients and will always rob the soil of nitrogen.if you water on really thick mulch the excess decomposing organisms will get to the roots disrupting the root micro organisms and leach nitrogen out of the soil in small but noticeable amounts.Yes the rotting kind and healthy micro organisms are two completely different things ..look it up..They can damage roots and root growth also damage root fungi.

Another reason to not mulch and just make a good mix for a better quality growing media for your plants.

Garden soil has a hell of a lot more inorganic minerals the plant needs where as mulch has organics in specific ratios in amounts relevant to the plant it came from.which is not gonna be a perfect balance now is it ....

As long as a small pot never dries out it will contain only slightly lower levels of beneficial organisms.

Also I hope you understand that I agree with you on many points

Mulching is great for plants ..it can do amazing things...

But it's not Perfect..

(In my experience)

Bearing in mind im in the uk and it's not always hot..

all you have to do is keep track of watering and you're better off.

coco coir mix needs compost and garden soil because the coir lacks nutrients and is solely for water retaining.

Thanks for correcting me on a few points.

I did my research over the years but I'm still learning.I honestly must have spent over a 100 hours at least on the subject of soil alone.

This link I found on Google mite be helpful.

https://ecomyths.org/2010/03/01/mulching-your-garden-is-good-for-the-environment/

Thanks Kevin I think you are right to disagre as there exists many factors and variables to do with soil quality.f or example one type of soil or plant may be perfect for mulch where as others may conflict and cause noticeable problems....Hence the reason for this thread...

Absolutely no hard feelings.

Thanks Kevin

Chriis
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chris051443
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
I believe that pots do require garden soil.It all depends on what type of soil and as everyone has different gardens.I was wrong to say it's a must have.My garden soil is perfect.Long story but it has been passed down and has a variety of over 10 fruit trees and tons of stunning plants including tons of differing roses which look amazing right now.its a very diverse garden I call it a jungle the soil is rich and full of life.

I will post pics if you're interested.

There is a YouTube video that shows soil is better than compo where the soil plant is shorter but much better looking which is to do with nutrients being more present in comparison to composts ability to help water intake I'm not sure what its called.il try and find it.

To further increase nutrients absorbed by roots mycorrhizae is a great organism if you don't know about it please check it out

I made a double post because I'm using my mobile for pics etc.

Thanks again Kevin top man.If I ever seem blunt forget it I'm here to help and make friends

Much appreciated

Chris
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Unhealthy, yellowing leaves on Sandia and New Mexico Chillies

woohooman San Diego CA zone 10a

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aniajs

naturemitch

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