I haven't tried it (shocking but true), but CR gives is middle of the road reviews. About the same level as Gain, All, and Sears. They also make an enzyme booster. I probably would have bought the booster alone, but it has brighteners as well.

I think it's cheaper to buy direct from Amway.. the amazon listings are resellers adding markup.

Worked very well when I lived in a house with hard well water. I usually ordered it on E-Bay to avoid dealing with a sales rep.

That's been 10 years ago so the formula has likely changed but it worked better than Tide in that horribly hard water.

Well we will see. I ordered it. I hope it doesn't disappoint me.

I have used it for about a week now. It is too soon to tell if it helps with Hubs rash but so far I like the way it cleans! Low to no suds without sttp and minimal suds with. No heavy duty grime to try out yet but I love the "just plain " fresh smell out of the dryer.

I grew up in an Amway home. I've been ISO a new detergent (and desperate lately due to allergies), and finally got desperate enough to give my dad a call to see if he'd send me some of their new (supreme) powder formula, which he did (note: growing up in Amway home=I was forced to use ONLY Amway products for my entire childhood, which is why the sa8 was more of a desperate last resort for me....their sa8 formula back when I was a kid (1980s formula, which they've clearly updated extensively by now) used to give me rashes). My dad also sent me the link to their (recently reformulated) legacy of clean page, which, refreshingly, lists every single ingredient in the "supreme" detergent. In looking at their ingredients list, I was really impressed; they've gone with some really advanced technology, so I was super excited when it arrived. (Note: the ingredients for the non-supreme version were absolutely nothing to write home about). Based on my experience with the supreme version (which is the kind you should try if you're truly looking for something different), and in review of its ingredients, this detergent would be ideal for people who have moderately to extremely hard water (200+ ppm) and prefer to use cold water. Unfortunately for me (in terms of the sa8 usage, that is), my tap water is approx 72ppm (not complaining!!!!), and due to my dust mite allergies and severe skin allergy to detergent/body soil residues (and also because I feed my cats raw food and the cleaning rags for the raw food get mixed in with all the rest of my laundry), I must wash everything hot (140-150°F). So, for me, the sa8 detergent had too much suds for the amount I had to use to get my stuff clean, which is a difficult tightrope to walk if you've got soft water and you're washing hot, mind you (thus is the blessing/curse of soft water) ...even after countless rinses. I tried several different loads, and I even stripped possible detergent residue from both my machine and from clothes prior to using it to remove that as a confounding factor, but still had way too much suds remaining in the rinse water even after 6-7+ rinses. Also, it had a hard time removing "biological fragrances" (body funk scent). HOWEVER, it managed to completely remove powerful chemical fragrances (which are among the hardest types of stains to remove from fabrics). To do this justice, I will elaborate further: the sa8 legacy of clean supreme powder completely obliterated thick layers of bath&body works lotions/body creams which had accumulated in my clothing, and then had aged on the laundry hamper (I have super dry skin, and for whatever crazy reason, b&bw lotions are the only kind I've found that don't leave my skin dry, thirsty and itchy for more moisture within 2-3 hours of application, so I just deal with all the potent fragrances and chemicals they use). Ladies, you know how hard that stuff is to remove from clothes....I'd actually thought it was impossible. So, yeah, if you've got hard/extra-hard water, and prefer to wash cold (or even "warm"), go buy some. It literally costs a fraction of what I pay for my German Persil (I've done the math).

I always wash warm if not hot depending on the load. I am still learning the dosing but only had one load that required extra rinses and that was due to there being cleaning cloths in the load with some residue of cleaner on them. I should have ran a rinse first. I am enjoying the "funk" removal for sure.

No way anyone uses cold water regularly for laundering...people don't put their clothing or their machines in such misery. LOL.

Laughable, yes...but I know a lot of folks around where I live who do just that (and think I'm being wasteful for using hot water).... But we all have soft water in this area, so I guess that's a fair assumption for them to make (they all change their tune when they hear about the raw cat food clean-up rags I'm washing, though...lol). I can't imagine washing everything cold in hard water though, unless you have a seriously built detergent like the sa8 supreme powder. (then you could very likely get away with it just fine). My dad (Amway salesman, if you'll recall) has informed me that their Amway formulation/manufacturing processes are so proprietary that they'd be impossible to replicate, which is why they have no qualms about listing all their ingredients in detail on their page. And I gotta hand it to them - I'm seriously impressed by the stuff they've got in there (all together in the same detergent). Fellow laundry detergent geeks, behold:

(Ok, that did NOT show up the way it looked when I initially pasted it onto this comment). Here's the link for a more coherent version of the list:

www.amway.com/Shop/Product/Product.aspx/Legacy-of-Clean-SA8-Supreme-Laundry-Detergent-Powder?itemno=109851

IngredientsNameCAS #Common Name / FunctionSodium Carbonate497-19-8Washing SodaC10-16 Alcohol Ethoxylate68002-97-1Nonionic SurfactantSodium Citrate6132-04-3Organic Water SoftenerSodium Carbonate Peroxide15630-89-4Oxygen BleachSodium Bicarbonate144-55-8Baking SodaHydrated Silica112926-00-8Absorbent MineralTAED10543-57-4Bleach ActivatorSodium Carboxymethyl Cellulose9004-32-4Anti-Redeposition AidSodium Sulfate7757-82-6Process AidStearic Acid57-11-4Dispersing AidSodium Polyacrylate9003-04-7Anti-Redeposition AidSodium Chloride7647-14-5Process AidFragranceProprietary
See IFRAorg.orgFragranceSodium Orthosilicate1344-09-8Stabilizing AidWater7732-18-5WaterSubtilisins (proteolytic enzymes)9014-01-1EnzymeDimethicone63148-62-9DefoamerPigment Blue 15147-14-8Blue DyeAcid Red 52 (CI45100)3520-42-1Pink Dye

I'm looking at the ing. Listed here but am by no means an expert but which ones are the serious ones all together?

Are you saying if you use this stuff with soft water than cold water will be sufficient to clean the clothes?

No ..sorry..after reading the ing. I see nothing special and absolutly nothing to take the place of hot water even if you are washing in soft water. Are you a sales rep for Amway?

@mamapinkey:

Abridged answer: arguably any detergent in any temperature will clean better in soft water vs hard water, all other things being equal.

Long-winded version: Soft water cleans everything better at all temperatures, by virtue of being soft water. This is due to the lower mineral deposit content in soft water. So the softer the water, the closer it will be to approaching distilled water (which, by way of comparison, is the ultimate soft water, with 0 parts per million (ppm) mineral content, since distilled water is created from condensation formed by steam, so there's nothing in it but pure h2o). The mineral deposit contents of your water hijack your detergents. The detergents latch on to the minerals instead of making their way to their designated destination (the dirt in your clothes), since the minerals will always get to the detergent first as soon as the water touches it. So the higher your water mineral content, the less detergent ends up left over and available to do what it's supposed to do. High mineral content is referred to as hard water (usually 150/200ppm+, depending who you ask). Because soft water has much less interference from mineral content, everything gets cleaner faster, and better, all while using less soap/detergent, and less residue remains after rinsing. Sorry for the long-winded explanation, but figured it'd be good to just put that out there in case anyone is reading who has heard "soft" and "hard" water thrown around, but without much clarification (I absolutely did not know the difference until I started having skin issues due to laundry detergent residue allergies about a year and a half ago). So back to your question: Soft water doesn't really require a detergent as well-built as this one (in any temperature). In either hot or cold soft water, a detergent like this might end up being overkill, as the sheer volume of water softening agents it contains indicates to me that it's designed for use in much harder water. So back to soft water. In soft water, it doesn't even matter, for example, whether your detergent is missing phosphates, which is a huge gripe nowadays (effectively, phosphate is pretty much a glorified water softener...see where this is going?), and you can get your clothes cleaner, in any temperature, with nearly any detergent (all other things being equal). People pay thousands of dollars to have whole-house water softeners installed because it just cleans stuff better (dishes, too), and it's also easier on your washing machine (less mineral/detergent residue).

As far as the ingredients go... I'm super excited to see TAED in a US detergent in conjunction with the sodium carbonate peroxide (aka sodium percarbonate), which is the oxygen bleach. The TAED is a cold water bleach activator that's usually just found in Euro detergents (and they've been doing the eco thing so much longer, so their stuff tends to work better, in my experience). I don't use cold water, but think the science behind it is cool, for its own sake. And even though I purchased bulk sodium percarb off of Amazon, I've never been able to get the dosage amount quite right on my own without weakening my clothes (store-bought oxygen bleaches contain too many extra foaming ingredients for me since I use hot soft water)...but I love how well it cleans... And I get excited when a detergent contains a decent amount of it (they've obviously buffered it somehow). Per my original post, the sa8 did not work for me, but I'd recommend it to people who prefer to wash their stuff in cold water, and who also have hard water. I ended up returning my box of it to my dad (braving his disappointed look, lol), since I use hot water and it's very soft @72ppm, so this stuff actually foamed up too much for me for those reasons, which made rinsing difficult (the dark side of soft water haha).

And no, I'm not an Amway sales rep. Are you?

Lol...and lol again...I'll respond later. I'm getting a roasted chicken on the table.

I understand the soft water vs hard water and the cleaning benefits with soft water...as do all the regular members here.

I will however disagree about phosphates being a glorified water softener, I'm sure you know phosphates do a whole lot more than just soften water. But maybe not since you termed it as a glorified water softener.

Personally I'd take Sodium TriPolyPhosphate over the others that have replaced it and still doesn't function as well as the phosphates on there own. But that's neither here nor there....as far as detergents, and cold water goes...there's not any detergent even in soft water that removes the largest soil in clothes and that's body oils. There is also the matter of keeping a washer clean and mold free that won't happen regardless of water softness if cold water is the majority of what's used on laundry day. There's more to gunking up a washer than hard water deposits, soils, detergent, FS are just a few that come to mind.

By the way if your using pure sodium percarbonate it will require hot water to activate as there's no activator in it. Yes the Europeans have a fine bleach activator, than again so does P&G USA. I flunked laundry 101 so could you tell me what ing. Are In the sa8 detergent that make it special? Thanks

I tried Legacy of Clean sa8 and disliked it. Not in cold water. DH's clothing still had a body oils smell on them when they were dried. I re-washed them in his usual free and clear.

A quick word about enzymes:

When phosphates were banned, enzymes took their place.
Enzymes are what clean clothes. And enzymes are what cost. A lack of enzymes is what makes budget brands inexpensive.
Tide is now offering a budget detergent named Simply Clean, which has reduced enzymes and is getting terrible reviews.
That said, SA8 is powered by a ton of enzymes.

Keep in mind, Alticor has the money, technology, and resources to spend millions on research of green approaches to laundry science.
Conversely, P&G and similar mega corporations have shareholders to please.

Also, P&G Chemicals is a massive global industrial products manufacturer and supplier,(sourcing from many countries, Malyasia for example, where work and eco conditions are dire) and has little reason to vary from the current standard of using as many of them as possible in the manufacture of their own products.

Conversely, Amway is a LEEDS certified Green manufacturer right in Grand Rapids Michigan.