Heh, I'm baaaack...To tell the truth, I'd not do much of anything with a weeper. As I said in the post above, some of the ideas we use in pruning regular, non-weeping types doesn't quite apply here. Branches pointing skyward now could well be the very weepers you will want later....as they grow and get heavier. I'd mostly just leave it do its thing, taking care only to make those few cuts that will help it fit its spot.

that's what I was wondering too. Will these branches that are sticking up get weighted and fall over weeping later?

But if I wanted to, your saying, they could be trimmed at any time.

I've heard with weeping varieties, sometimes if you trim more can grow in it's place. Any guidelines to avoid this?

i will be the third to tell you to let them grow and get to weeping length ...

if you cut them.. the new growth will grow just the same .. up ..

you can ask again .. and probably get a 4th same answer ...

ken

I agree that those are branches that you should let alone.

Thanks so much guys! I won't cut them

My only question is: If pruning makes the tree grow twice as much in the cut spot, how do you ever control branches you don't want? In other words how should I cut in the future (say a year or so down the line) if for example the tree is too wide In a certain direction. How can I remove branches without it growing more in it's place. I know it can be done, but now I"m confused how. :D

Thanks again everyone! SO helpful!

Also, there are a couple branches (I think three) that are growing *towards* the brick wall. I'd like to limit the back growth towards this wall and encourage the shape to fall more forward towards the patio. In that case I don't want those few branches to grow out, can I snip now?

Thanks!

Dang, I lost what I had written earlier when I took a break to vote.

Those upward growing branches will tend to weep as they lengthen. I did have one oddball vertical that did not, but I just eventually pruned it because it looked silly. The thing is, you want to restrict the growth of your tree [from other thread] in several directions. Those upward growths will tend to grow out and overlap the current weeping branches--making the tree broader. You want your tree to put its energy into growing in the direction you have more room.

I hate having to repeat stuff from the other thread; part of me wishes you had tacked these two onto the previous threads. As noted before, normally you would want to prune from under the canopy, and let the new upper growth take over. However, in your particular case, you will want to remove the upward growth that is headed towards the size-restricting walls only, while leaving the already weeping branches that are closer to the trunk, and the upward growth that is growing in the directions where you have more room. They should not be too large by fall, and doing it later would not encourage the secondary growth as much. If the pruning isn't overdone, and it does not appear it would need to be from your photo, the plant's energy will go into the primary and laterals that are lower on the primary (weeping) branch.

This would not be my normal advice, but you are trying to fit an 15' tree into a 8' space. It will look better in the long run to train it to be lopsided now, to encourage it to fit while keeping the weeping form, than to have to butcher it later and have no branches on several sides.

Thank you for your reply.

So If I trim here and there on the backside, and it gets more front heavy is that ok? Will the tree be unhappy to grow more on the front side and side front areas but not backside that touches the walls? Is that ok?

Also, taking off a few branches going to backside, will it make tree get denser? You mentioned only doing underneath as usually they have a way to grow to their natural width and 'weep'.

Thanks!

I'm uncertain what you mean by 'So If I trim here and there on the backside'. Haphazard pruning is not a good idea. The tree would be "happier", if there is such a thing, having sufficient space. But that isn't an option for your tree, so really you are making the best of the situation.

What I am picturing is your tree being roughly equal in foliage density all around, but with the size restricted sides having the weeping branches fall closer to the trunk than on the front, roomier sides. In other words, it would look natural, but with the trunk not being in the center of the canopy. Viewed from the front, it might just look like a perspective illusion that the trunk is not centered, and many people may not even mentally register the unevenness.

If the tree is allowed to grow as wide as it would like, on the size restricted sides, drastic pruning may be necessary as the branches begin hitting the wall in the future. You may end up with weeping branches to the ground in front, and branches that reach less than half way down in the back. That asymmetry would be more glaring to the eye, and the desired form of a weeping tree would be diminished.

Floral mentioned pruning underneath in this thread, and I did in the other thread in reference to my tree. That is my pruning method, because I am not restricting its width, and I want to encourage a nice weeping form on my tree that is open under the canopy. I'm not encouraging a very dense mass of foliage and branches because the openness shows the form better, allows for flowers to grow underneath the tree, and I can watch our hummingbirds that like to perch there.

On my tree, I selectively stagger-prune some of the branches about 2-2.5' up after they reach the ground, (sorry, that would take another page of typing to explain, and I lack the time right now) to prevent the appearance of a straight "haircut". It does serve to thicken the foliage amount on the lower sections of the tree by encouraging side branching, but not to a very noticeable degree. Is that where you want your tree to be thicker in foliage, or somewhere else? As the tree matures, it will naturally increase the number of branches and be "denser". Under-pruning can be used to maintain a slightly "airier" look as the tree matures and produces more branches.

When you first posted about this tree the majority advice was that this tree was not suited for this position because it could not achieve its natural shape in that space. Already you are beginning to see the reasons for that opinion. Weeping trees are easily messed up by injudicious pruning.

Hello

When I said prune here and there I did not mean haphazard but more prune "when needed" but not aggressively.

To answer the other comment when I first posted it became apparent it wasn't an ideal location for it. The nursery gave me the wrong information even after they saw the location they said it was fine- they lied. But, I can't dig it up. I can't return it. And we can't move it because our patio is the size of a postage stamp. So we are stuck with it there and I plan to make the most of it. And that's what I plan to do.

I don't mind if the back side is a hot mess. It can be ugly...no one will see it. I want to know if I just trim it on backside and let it free flow on the front side it it will be imbalanced and that could strain the tree with the weight differential.

Also I am trying to understand how to trim so that I don't encourage super bushy growth.

With most weeping trees it seems you take out branches underneath and then let the top branches cascade. With our tree and it's location it can cascade up to 10 feet across in the front and side front areas. Only the backside cannot.

I'm looking for genuine advice. We already have a whole thread about how dumb of a decision it was to plant there. I get it. But it can't go anywhere. So now I need to make it work and I am no tree expert but I have to learn fast.

Thanks so much for your help everyone so fat. Most appreciated.

Restricting the majority of your pruning to when the tree is dormant will reduce the amount of new (and perhaps undesired) growth it will generate. It is also far easier to see what's what and where best to prune when the tree is out of leaf (dormant).

Pruning during the growing season only encourages new growth, as others have mentioned.

I've heard dormant season for this guy is end of summer? Is that right?

Dormant is when it no longer has any leaves. That's typically mid to late fall for most tree species.

As far as all that goes, in some ways, it is precisely dormant-season pruning which most results in an uptick in new growth. Trees, as energy gathering and storing systems, are poised in the spring to put on a push of growth. There are however, numerous other reasons to do most of your pruning in that late winter/early spring dormant period. But in this case, so little (if anything) need be done that it doesn't really matter. Even in cases where it does matter, the truth is, there's only a slight difference (to the plant) between getting pruned at the exact perfect time and any other time. Take our own forestry department in this city. With 35 or 40,000 trees to manage, we do not wait until the precise moment and then somehow, impossibly try to prune all the trees! Far from it, we do it year-round, avoiding only the two worst times of year to prune-spring, when buds are expanding (to the point of full leaf expansion) and that part of fall when the trees are getting ready to shed their leaves. If one can simply avoid those two times-this for deciduous, broadleaved trees, you'll be straight.

But the more important message here is that you-midorit-don't really need to do much of anything.

For the time being the best advice would be not to do anything to it at all. As far as I recollect it has only been in the ground a short while. I would give it a lot more time i.e. at least a couple of years before pruning anything at all. It is still settling in and getting into its stride. Wait and see how it reacts to the proximity to the wall rather than trying to second guess it. It will probably adapt itself without any intervention.

It is clear you do not yet understand pruning techniques, so unintentional haphazard pruning is a real possibility. 'I don't mind if the back side is a hot mess. It can be ugly...no one will see it...' doesn't instill confidence. Yes, it will show! I can see the branches and foliage of the back of my tree when viewing it from the opposite side. When the leaves are gone, and the bare branches show the form of the tree, I can see the entire tree.

Have you considered putting the tree up for sale through Craig's List, or a gardening club, locally? It is a desirable tree and it hasn't been in the ground that long, so it should not be as difficult to move as an established tree. You might be able to recoup a enough of your investment to be able to purchase another tree that would be perfect for the location. Trees are an investment in some ways; nice ones, in appropriate settings, can add $$ to the value of a house when sold. Mature trees that are not in appropriate places, or are an eyesore, detract from the value because buyers consider the cost and effort it will require to have them removed, plus the cost to replace it with something appropriate and of sufficient size.

You are receiving genuine advice from a lot of members. We don't always agree on everything, because we all have different horticulture experience and training. I have used my experience with my weeping birch to try to offer my best advice. I haven't seen any posts where members were not trying to help you.

Thank you so much everyone for all of your advice! I think for now I will just do nothing. Even those few branches added to the backside really will not fill it out immensely. If it starts getting more in that direction I will intervene. I will try and take out some branches underneath on the backside as it grows and then some from the top to thin out the canopy and try to do it as tasteful as I can! :D. I plan to buy a book on tree pruning as well. I feel like if people can bonsai trees into shape, I should be able to save this from being a total disaster! Haha

Lastly, I can't remember if this was answered (if so I'm sorry!) but I was told by a couple friends that trees that grow against a house or wall will self limit themselves a bit. Does anyone in their experience know this to be true? In other words, they will grow up to the wall, but their growth will be a bit stifled by the existence of the wall. I heard this and wanted to see who had experience of this.

Thank you so much again and sorry this didn't get tacked on the other question! Originally it was just a pruning question but I could quickly see where it fit into the whole scheme of things :D. Thank you though. I'm taking all opinions on board and they are all valued here!!

Good luck with your tree. To save on purchasing a bonsai book ;), that restriction of top growth size is typically achieved by root pruning and restriction, and is not something that can be easily achieved for an in-ground tree.

You asked if the tree was only pruned on one side would it lean because of the unequal weight.

After the the tree is taller you can let the branches grow on that side to restore the umbrella and proper balance. Just hope your neighbors allow it.

Mike

Midorit, if I sound cross, my apologies. That is not my intent, but at this point, I really and truly believe you need to just take a few deep breaths, move on to something else, and literally forget about this tree for a while. You will learn more by direct observation in the coming couple of years than b y any number of additional posts and questions about this one plant.

Mind you-I'm not at all saying to discontinue participating on this forum-I couldn't make that happen even if I wanted to, and I don't.l I'm just saying, let the tree be, again for a year or two, see what's happening, and move on. The tree is-as has been adequately stated-a bit close to the house, there are ways to deal with this, but there is simply nothing that needs to be....or even should be...done now.

".... and then some from the top to thin out the canopy ..." Please, no. Maybe we haven't explained ourselves clearly enough. Cutting from above the canopy is a bad idea unless you are an experienced pruner. Look at how those new branches go up a little and then arch over and downwards. If you cut stems from above the canopy you can end up with stubs sticking up in the air and multiple new growths therefrom. I too have a weeping birch in my tiny garden. It is getting on for 30 years old so please believe that I do know what I am talking about. Just leave your tree alone and watch how it develops. Look at it in all seasons. As has been stated above, in the winter you will be able to see it all and if there are ugly stubs and clutter from poor pruning they will show horribly.

I cut the middle upward branch, did I ruin my weeping cherry tree?

Impossible to say. I would suggest you start your own thread and provide more information including a picture. Where are you situated, how old is the tree and how big is it? But as a general rule of thumb, weeping cherries are best left entirely alone. If the shape doesn't suit then it's probably not the right tree for the situation.

"Heh, I'm baaaack...To tell the truth, I'd not do much of anything with a weeper. As I said in the post above, some of the ideas we use in pruning regular, non-weeping types doesn't quite apply here. Branches pointing skyward now could well be the very weepers you will want later....as they grow and get heavier. I'd mostly just leave it do its thing, taking care only to make those few cuts that will help it fit its spot."

Welcome back, Tom!

I wouldn't touch the tree. These upright branches will eventually cascade down to form weeping branches. Leave them be.

"I cut the middle upward branch, did I ruin my weeping cherry tree?"

Why don't you create your own thread instead of hijacking this one?

I was also excited when I thought +om was back, but then I checked the date. :(