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scott_westbrook89

New Poster - seeking advice on our floor plan

Scott Westbrook
7 years ago

Some information: Young couple planning this to be our forever home. So need to plan for current life and future. Hope to have 2 kids. With a recent MS diagnosis we have to account that a wheelchair could be a future necessity - but for right now healthy and living life with the best hopes that won't be the future. Front of house faces east and an easement road that gives access to one wooded lot to the north. North is acres of wood and wetland before reaching other currently empty lot. West (back of house) is more trees and a creek. South is bridge over creek to main road and another lot that currently has a home built on it. Distance away but still visible.

This is a custom design we made on our ipad then had an architect draw up. Would love any feedback or thoughts before we move forward and lock in the layout. Have already taken so much great advice from this forum so thanks to all for past and future advice!

Comments (49)

  • PRO
    Virgil Carter Fine Art
    7 years ago

    Obviously, a very large and rambling first floor, without seeing other levels. This promises to be a very wonderful, albeit very expensive house to build and maintain.

    All I can say, from a life's experience, is that if you are a young couple without children at present, there is no way that this will be your "forever" home. Life simply has too many changes and challenges, over time, for that to happen at your apparent early age.

    There will come a time when this house is simply too much to manage.

    In the meantime, if this house fits your budget and family needs for the foreseeable future, then go for it. As long as you're not building the largest and most expensive house in the territory, you should be able to sell it when and if your family and health situations change.

    Good luck!

    Scott Westbrook thanked Virgil Carter Fine Art
  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Our house is a ranch, with a full basemen with walk out on western and northern sides to be finished at a later date. It is within our means and will "fit in" nicely in our neighborhood. Thank you for the feedback

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  • BuildinginTN
    7 years ago

    This whole house design is not my forte, but if you hang in there you will get fantastic feedback from this forum. I have 2 kids, so I can only comment based on personal experience.

    Your 2 bedrooms are a good size, but you have a lot of bathrooms for a 3 bedroom house. I'd be tempted to move a bathroom between those rooms (maybe a jack & jill) and use the extra space for closets. You'll want lots of hidden space to hide toys.

    I'm one of those that prefers laundry near bedrooms, but in this case - if and when you have small children - you may find it a challenge to sneak in loads while they sleep. I would be tempted to position that where your back foyer is.

    Cant see dimensions so it's hard to comment on that.

    good luck!

    Scott Westbrook thanked BuildinginTN
  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    We have future plans for play room when we finish the basement. "Babies" will probably be kept in master bedroom until sleeping better through the night. Good thought on the kitchen table.........

  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thanks BuildinginTN! Great tips! We will have the added luxury of having an extra washer and dryer in our master bedroom closet if we need to sneak in a load during nap times. Thanks for the feedback

  • cpartist
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Overall, it's a decent layout.

    Where are you located? And what size is your plot? I ask because I'm wondering if there's a way to turn the house so it uses passive solar energy better. If you're in most of the US, during the summer, that deck is going to be quite hot during the summer months in the afternoon. In some climates it will be unusable.

    I have a friend who is in a wheelchair so when finalizing my home, I spoke with her about how best to make the house accessible. One because we want her to be a frequent visitor. Two because one of us is already enjoying medicare and I'm not far behind and 3 because I saw my Mom's mobility deteriorate over 12 years from Parkinson's disease. Having seen that, I am a firm believer in making houses accessible.

    Where is the elevator/chair lift and stairs going to?

    One thing I see right away is your bathroom is not workable for someone in a wheelchair. Someone in a wheelchair would not be able to get in and out of the toilet stall. Ideally wheelchair access should have a 60" radius for turning and at the least should be able to get into and out of the room by just moving forward and backwards. Your toilet room does neither and then to make it even worse, you have a door that opens in.

    I designed my bathroom with a toilet room too but I designed it in such a way that if I ever needed it opened, it's an easy fix.

    And it also looks like your shower (which I hope is wheel in) doesn't have a wide enough door and is too narrow.

    And yet your tub looks large enough to fit 4-6 people. You need more room for the shower and less for the tub, even if you have a walk in tub.

    Your other bathrooms will also be difficult for someone in a wheelchair to use.

    How wide is your walk in closet?

    With where your bed is situated in your master, someone in a wheelchair will have a difficult time maneuvering around the bed. Even without mobility issues, it's less than ideal to have to walk almost halfway around the bed to get to the bathroom.

    Can't say I love where the powder room is either. It looks like from some areas of the kitchen you'll have a view into the powder room. Not something you want.

    Your kitchen is large but very poorly laid out. You have pathways from other parts of the house right through work zones. I understand about having the kitchen the heart of the home, but you want the work zones to be contained so while someone is working, kids or others are not brushing past.

    You don't say which of you has MS, but hopefully it's not the person who normally does the laundry, because it's a long walk from the master to the laundry room. Especially if you're thinking of staying in the house, I would think you'd want a laundry room closer to your bedroom.

    Why do you need your garage being almost the first thing you will see especially since it's almost the same width as the house?

    Lastly, do you need such a huge house for the two of you? As the person with MS possibly becomes less mobile, the extra distances between rooms might become more of a problem.

    Might I suggest you do as I did when vetting my house? Show it to someone who has mobility issues and see if they have solutions and suggestions on how to make it more user friendly for your family.

    Here's hoping that the MS is controllable for many, many years with minimal problems and that all these ideas are never needed. However, better to be ready just in case and if not necessary, then you have extra large bathrooms, etc. I've been told that exercise is probably the best thing you can continue to do on a daily basis.

    Scott Westbrook thanked cpartist
  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Thank you cpartist The stairs and "possible future chairlift" go to the basement (to be finished at later date). Good points on the accessibility on the bathroom / shower /closet. House will be on a 3.33 acre lot with private easement in Wisconsin. Garage is closest to driveway exit and neighbors house. Best view will be from large screen porch and great room. Deck off West off house will be for sun and shade will be in screened porch. Walk in closet is slightly over 6 feet wide. We don't need a house this big but nobody does :-) Thank you for your feedback!

  • BB Galore
    7 years ago

    My husband would drool over that 4-bay garage. Well done.

    In the master bath, you've got his & her sinks that would have you and the missus bumping booties if you're both washing up at the same time. And placing the sinks at the entry point to the bathroom may be inconvenient with someone else trying to walk in and out of the bathroom.

    Very awkward to have to go through the kitchen to get to kids' bedrooms. Maybe alter the plans so you can run a hallway off the foyer to the bedrooms. Also, even when your children are no longer babies, you still may prefer having them a little closer. A tearful child waking from a bad dream, having to referee a sibling fight, teenage friends tapping on the windows in the middle of the night are all good reasons to keep the kids within earshot. My kids' bedrooms are a bit far from the master wing, but that's on the second floor, with only a long hallway separating them from hubby and me.

    Having to walk past your dining table to get to the living room would be considered a floorplan no-no where I'm from, but maybe that varies from region to region.

    Your plan requires your guests to run the kitchen gauntlet to get to the powder room.

    Personally, I'm a huge fan of dumping the auxiliary dining space in favor of having a space well-suited to everyday dining as well as hosting dinner gatherings for extended family and friends. This presumes that the dining area will be on an easy-to-clean floor like wood. But I'd much prefer to have a screen porch off the kitchen than the dining room and living room. It's much more convenient if you plan on toting food and beverages out there.

    I'm in my third "forever" home, but who knows...maybe you're the kind of family who will stay put. But since you don't know if/when you'll be needing a wheel chair, have you considered whether things like the master bathroom water closet and shower are wheelchair accessible? Does the kitchen have adequate room to rotate in a wheelchair? Are doors and hallways wide enough? Is your architect well-versed on accessible design?

    Sorry for the long post. Looks like you've got some beautiful concepts laid out. May your MS progress slowly, if at all, and may a cure be on the way.

    Scott Westbrook thanked BB Galore
  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Thank you cpartist The stairs and "possible future chairlift" go to the basement (to be finished at later date).

    Smart to plan for them now. Especially the chairlift. We are putting an elevator in our house for the same reason. It actually is less money now than to retrofit.

    Good points on the accessibility on the bathroom / shower /closet.

    Kitchen and bath will be the most important rooms.

    Walk in closet is slightly over 6 feet wide.

    That will work as long as you only have hanging on one side. You need 2' for hanging. Again though, how will someone in a wheelchair turn around? Again you need a 5' turning radius.

    We don't need a house this big but nobody does :-)

    LOL. My concern is for future mobility issues. Maybe there's a way to make the main area of the house more compact so it will be easy for the person with MS to navigate easier. Especially at the point where the person is not in a wheelchair but may need a cane or a walker. What seems like just a walk down a hallway can feel like a marathon race for someone who has problems walking.

    Scott Westbrook thanked cpartist
  • bpath
    7 years ago

    I think I'd want to shift the left side of the house back, and reconfigure the kitchen, so that:

    There is a straight shot from mudroom area across to the foyer and master;

    The kitchen is not the main passageway to everything, it's like a highway cloverleaf right now

    Scott Westbrook thanked bpath
  • lakeerieamber
    7 years ago

    The traffic flow through the kitchen would be a huge problem for me. You'll people coming in and out through the garage entrance, people going to and from the powder room, kids coming and going to their bedrooms.

    I would definitely want some sort of playroom on the first floor (maybe shared as an office or sunroom?). Having kids myself, you can't just send kids down to the basement to play when they are under 2-3 years old which means you have to go down to the basement too. I don't love spending the day in the basement (even though ours is finished - I would much rather be on the first floor). If you have toys in their bedrooms they are inevitably going to get drug through the kitchen to the family room throughout the day.

    Scott Westbrook thanked lakeerieamber
  • Amy79
    7 years ago

    Like others I'm not sure which of you received the MS diagnosis, but I would consider one larger bathroom for the kids to share making it easier to assist in bathing and nighttime routines if mobility will be decreased. I know it's tight when my husband and I try to get our 7 and 4 yr olds ready for bed in our tiny bathroom. It would be untenable if one of us was in a wheelchair (both my in-laws are in chairs so I'm pretty aware of their wheelchair needs).

    I'm also pro-keeping the kids close when they are young and older. I like knowing if they have a bad dream, get up to go potty, get sick, or during the now long-ago middle of the night feedings (which can continue for several months even if they are sleeping well). I wouldn't want to be trekking across my entire house to get to them.

    I'd love to see the front elevation. The 2 front porches seem like they would be confusing to guests.

    Just my $.02. I'm still new around here, mostly lurking and learning. Hoping to contact our "person of design talent" soon.

    Scott Westbrook thanked Amy79
  • mrspete
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I don't like the exterior of this house: A large V shape with an oversized garage (with all those front-facing doors) ... then add two doors to the front of the house. The exterior has so many jigs and jogs that'll drive up the cost ... without adding any function to the house. I really don't like the exterior at all.

    If you're sure you need a four-car garage, I suggest you divide it into two two-car garages; it's so much less overwhelming this way -- the second garage could be attached or detached and can share the driveway -- ignore my proportions; clearly I'm off on proportions:

    Bonus to this garage: You could build a two-car garage now ...and the second one later, hopefully keeping it off your mortgage and saving you big bucks.

    The foyer, dining room and living room look lovely. Gracious proportions, lots of nice windows and the fancy staircase at the end. This large public room is the best part of the house, and I like the ceiling treatment -- it humanizes a large space.

    Why are you building an elevator and a staircase? With a difficult medical diagnosis staring you in the face, why not go with an all-one-floor build?

    I'd move the head of the bed to the exterior wall. This'll give you a more direct path to the closet and bathroom (without circling around the bed). 90 degree turns are tough in a wheelchair, so consider the difficulty of entering the closet ... and then backing out. You need 5' empty space to turn a wheelchair, and you don't have it in this closet. Similarly, a wheelchair bound person won't be able to use this toilet-in-a-closet. The shower's going to be a tough sell too -- you'll want it to be wide enough to support a hospital chair. Note that a person standing at one of the bathroom sinks will block the doorway to the bathroom for the other spouse. Overall, the bathroom is large, but not handicapped friendly at all.

    What I do like in the bedroom is the exterior door. With the possibility of a person in a wheelchair living in this room, that door is necessary for fire safety.

    The kitchen is oversized, and bigger isn't always better. In this case, everything is so far from everything else, and the extra island will always be in the way. People tend to want island seating envisioning the kids happily doing homework while mom cooks -- but mom'll be cooking an island away from the seats. With a large pantry, you don't need the cabinets for storage, and this much counterspace quickly becomes clutter-space. I suggest you take this to the kitchen thread for suggestions.

    I don't care for the kitchen "front porch" at all. It's going to be confusing to people approaching your house -- but I would like to see a door straight from the kitchen to the back porch. This'd be very useful for grilling or eating outside.

    For most people I'd say two mudrooms are overkill, but since you have reason to think a wheelchair may be in your future, a second mudroom may be worthwhile. People tend to start by using a wheelchair only when they leave the house ... so a place for it to "sit" by the door is a necessity. Do you have space for a ramp in the garage?

    Do you have a 5' turning radius in the powder room? What about the kids' bathrooms? The kids' closets? Overall, I think you need someone who's an expert in handicapped access to look over your plan and point out "problem zones" -- it'd cost so much more to go back and correct things later.

    Do the kids really need private bathrooms? That's a huge expense, plus it's more to keep clean.

    What are the stairs in the garage? Is this for a bonus room? Do you really need this large house PLUS a basement PLUS a bonus room?

    What I don't see is any place to work at home, and since you're a young couple, I assume you still have years left in the rat race. With more and more people working from home, I think it'd be wise to carve out a space where one (or both) adults could close a door and work in quiet. Depending upon your jobs, you might or might not need space for files, etc.

    All
    I can say, from a life's experience, is that if you are a young couple
    without children at present, there is no way that this will be your
    "forever" home. Life simply has too many changes and challenges, over
    time, for that to happen at your apparent early age.

    99% sure this is true. I'm close to retirement, and as I think of my same-aged friends ... not a single couple is still living it their first home. Literally zero.

    I know, it seems tempting to try to "have it all" at a young age -- and you dream of never moving again, your children having memories of only one house, your grandchildren sleeping over in the room where their dad slept as a kid. But it rarely works out that way. Jobs, family, neighborhoods changing, priorities changing. Build what you need now and think about more when it's time.

    There will come a time when this house is simply too much to manage.

    Oh, yes. Kids -- while they're wonderful -- take every minute of your day, and I can see a house this size being a burden instead of a joy while the kids are small.
    Aldo, no playroom for the children - you're not going
    to wanted them and all their tots in your LR.

    No loss. Kids never use playrooms anyway -- teens like away space, but small children want to be under your feet. And, yes, that means toys in the living room. Priorities.

    "Babies"
    will probably be kept in master bedroom until sleeping better through
    the night.

    My oldest didn't sleep through the night for a year and a half. I can't remember how we were brave enough to have a second.

    Seriously, though, I usually don't have a problem with kids being across the house -- they learn really quickly to get out of their cribs and find their way to your bed. However, in this situation, if one parent's mobility is impaired, it might be wise to keep the bedrooms closer together. Perhaps a small study off the master, where the kids could sleep for a couple years ... then move them to their "big kid rooms" with pomp and circumstance.
    Here's hoping that the MS is controllable for many, many years with
    minimal problems and that all these ideas are never needed.

    With proper care, this is very realistic. One of my good friends has been dealing with MS for 15-20 years now, and because she is fastidious about following her doctor's instructions, hers has progressed very slowly.

    Deck off West off house will be for sun and shade will be in screened porch.

    So your garage and one kid's room are getting the Southern exposure? I don't know if this is true in the North, but here in the South, the Southern exposure is our nicest light, and we all try to orient our public rooms in that direction.

    We don't need a house this big but nobody does :-)

    Well, you recognize the truth. Thing is, I think you have your space in the wrong areas; that is, you have space in your living areas and kitchen (everyone says he or she wants a big kitchen -- what people really want is a kitchen that functions well and efficiently), but you don't have the space you may need for a wheelchair in your "functional areas" -- your closets, bathrooms, laundry.

    Walk in closet is slightly over 6 feet wide.

    24" for clothing on each side ... that leaves you only 24" of walking space in the middle -- pull out the yardstick and see just how small that is. And that doesn't allow for any wall thickness. Even without the possibility of a wheelchair, even without the idea of adding a washer/dryer to the closet, if this closet is to be comfortable, it needs to be wider.

    Scott Westbrook thanked mrspete
  • zorroslw1
    7 years ago

    I don't usually comment on house plans, but....

    I would not want toddlers waking in the middle of the night and wondering through a house looking for mommy and daddy's room or a 6 month old in a crib that far away, even with a monitor.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    This is a custom design we made on our ipad then had an architect draw up

    Was this a licensed architect or a designer/draftsman? I ask because if it was a licensed architect, he/she did not take into account your special needs and how you live now and might need to live in the future. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you have a very large house but not a well functioning house for your needs.

  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    cpartist, Our Architect has given us some good feedback and we have chosen to not do somethings despite her recommendations. I'm the one that has MS. I'm 35 years old and work 50+ hours a week and golf / go to the gym 3-4 times a week. If my health changes severely in the next 5-10 years, We will have to sell this house anyways. My disease is on our Minds but there is a very good chance that I will never need a wheel chair or at least not for a very long time. You really do have me thinking about the bathroom sizes / walk in closest space. Thanks again for your Feedback

  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    mrspete, Our lot is on a creek and has a pretty decent slope. We are restricted on how deep we can make our footprint because of the creek. When you pull onto our private drive you will come over a bridge over the creek and see the "back side" of the house. We made the hallways / walkways 4' wide to make room for people to navigate around each other etc. We have our master bedroom bed positioned so it doesn't block our view out the Northern wall or the western view into the screen porch. I understand Kids will probably have stuff everywhere.... Will have to make some trade offs. Thanks for your feedback!

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    If my health changes severely in the next 5-10 years, We will have to sell this house anyways.

    Would that be because of financial reasons and if so, would making the house smaller and more efficiently laid out so it costs less to build, help you to stay in the house longer?

    Just a thought. Assuming your health stays stable (and nowadays there's a good chance it will with everything coming down the pike), might you consider building a bit smaller now, and increasing later on if needed?

    Please excuse me if I'm getting too personal. It's just that as I've gotten older, I've found I don't necessarily need a larger house, but one that is more efficient.

    Scott Westbrook thanked cpartist
  • just_janni
    7 years ago

    It would be nice to see some elevations - I think you may get some additional advice. Also - there was another poster here recently who WAS in a wheelchair and her designer put in some 5' turning radii in some of the critical areas. I thought that was very helpful. For example - it may not be a huge thing in the accessory baths, but maybe the powder, helping in kitchen design, thinking about laundry and DEFINITELY the master / master bath. With some minimalist trends, and open spa-like layouts in master baths, you should be able to create an accessible bath that does not compromise your current aesthetic and abilities.

    One thing that I heard here was to line EVERY bath / shower with plywood before the tile backer board so that if you NEED to add grab bars - you would be searching for a stud. Same for anywhere near a commode.

    Scott Westbrook thanked just_janni
  • mrspete
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    might you consider building a bit smaller now, and increasing later on if needed?

    Sounds like a very good idea. It's hard for anyone to anticipate what he or she will need once kids arrive, and you're in a more complicated situation because of your health.

    It's just that as I've
    gotten older, I've found I don't necessarily need a larger house, but
    one that is more

    My experience has been the same. Our first house was 3 Bed/2 Bath 1400 sf. That's the house where we brought our kids home from the hospital. The rooms were perfectly good, but we were sadly lacking in terms of closets, laundry, and bathrooms -- we moved partly because of location and partly because we badly needed more than minimum size in those "functional areas".

    One thing that I heard here was to line EVERY bath / shower with plywood
    before the tile backer board so that if you NEED to add grab bars - you
    would be searching for a stud. Same for anywhere near a commode.

    That is excellent advice. It'll cost so little during the build, but it could save big bucks down the line.

    I'd take it a step further: Also add the backing for grab bars by the main entrance door (probably the garage); my grandmother could come and go out her back door by herself because she had solid grab bars both inside and out ... she needed help at the front door.

    Scott Westbrook thanked mrspete
  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    All good points, Prepping for grab handles sound like a great idea. I will get pics of elevation up when I can. After reading this, just makes me want to make certain things bigger (bathrooms). We originally were thinking of having an office or 4th bedroom but didn't want to make anything smaller or increase the square footage of our footprint. We want a large open concept, having everything connected Kitchen, dining room, great room, screen porch with doors that open like an accordion to make one huge space for friends and family to hang out. We plan on using bedrooms 2 and three as "guest suits" before Kids (we don't have any yet) after and while they are very young and wanted them all to be a decent size.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Your bedroom sizes are perfect for kids and/or guests. Just right.

    As for your bathroom, you don't need to make it larger. You need to make it smarter. You need to get rid of that tub that is larger than anything else in the room. First of all a tub like that will take an hour to fill and how often do you plan on using it? Get one right sized, not oversized and then reconfigure the bathroom to meet your needs now and possible future needs.

  • pooks1976
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I don't care for this plan. It seems big, but also nonfunctional. For me the biggest problem is the placement of the kitchen, which seems to act as the homes main hallway. The garage, mudroom, one porch, powder room, and the kids bedrooms are all accessed only by going through the kitchen.

    I also don't like the 4 garage bays going across the front elevation.

  • chisue
    7 years ago

    It is extremely difficult (impossible?) for a *couple* to plan a house for a *family* before they are parents, much less plan a *forever home* for their senior years. We even see parents of very young children who can't envision the sheer *space* their kids -- and kids' friends -- will require in a few years.

    Many of us have been through the first two stages, and are now seniors. You can trust us on what has worked for our families (from infants to teens) and what works for someone with even minor mobility issues.

    I hate to rain on your parade. I would guess that building a home represents your confidence in the future, despite the MS diagnosis. I'd urge you not to build *this*, merely to 'get started'.

    This house is indeed *big*, with a lot of glam touches, but it doesn't work well for a family or seniors, and it doesn't 'flow'. It isn't positioned well for a northern climate. Your garage blocks the sunny South side. You have porches and decks on the hot West side. It has stairs and stairs and stairs.

    Do you own this lot? is it near work, schools, shopping, libraries, recreational facilities, doctors, hospitals, (baby-sitters)?



  • mrspete
    7 years ago

    Your bedroom sizes are perfect for kids and/or guests. Just right.

    As for your bathroom, you don't need to make it larger. You need to
    make it smarter. You need to get rid of that tub that is larger than
    anything else in the room. First of all a tub like that will take an
    hour to fill and how often do you plan on using it? Get one right sized,
    not oversized and then reconfigure the bathroom to meet your needs now
    and possible future needs.

    I'd say the bedrooms are on the generous side ... but not over the top.

    I agree that the bathroom needs to be "right sized" and "smarter" instead of larger.

    About the tub: We always stay in the same hotel when we visit our college daughter, and sometimes we get the suite with a two-person heart-shaped bathtub. The first time we saw that thing we laughed and laughed and laughed. We've enjoyed it, but it is truly a ridiculous item and not something I'd want in my own house. It takes forever to fill, and with such a large surface area, it cools quickly. I also wouldn't want to clean this large tub.

    If you do build an over-sized tub like this, plan a hot water heater that can handle it.


    I suggest you consider a master bath that'll give you the space you need ... without going over the top. Here's a quick layout of a simple master bath:

    Notice how the floor space is enough for a wheelchair to turn around, but you don't have wasted space (that's expensive to tile and can lead to a "cold" feeling). The toilet is tucked behind the vanity, so it has a bit of privacy ... but a person with reduced mobility can use it more easily, and you can have grab bars on both sides; also, without the walls, it's easier to clean. The bottleneck at the bathroom door is gone; instead you have a small laundry cabinet, which'll be tucked behind the door when it's open. The tub and shower could be a comfortable 4' wide, and you could extend the tub deck into the shower to act as a seat near the no-door shower. You'd have space for tub towels on the wall near the door and shower towels on the pony wall opposite the toilet. You could potentially have a window over the tub and a window between the toilet and shower, giving you natural light from two sides. You could easily adjust this style to be longer /shorter /to incorporate a door to the closet where the linen is.

    Simple works.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Honestly the more I look at this house the less I feel it works. I really think you need to rethink this and not be married to this floor plan. Yes I understand you drew it out from your own idea but most times our first ideas are not our best. I say that as a full time artist so know about getting married to an idea.

    Here I drew arrows showing different activities. About the only one that works well for your needs is coming in from the garage and putting groceries away. That is indicated by the Red arrow.

    The Blue arrow shows the path you need to take to bring laundry from your closet to the laundry room.

    The Green arrow shows the path a guest needs to travel to get to the powder room.

    The Yellow arrow shows the path you'd need to travel in the middle of the night to get to a sick kid from your bedroom.

    And lastly the purple arrow shows the path you'd need to travel to get from your car to bring in something like a bag of new clothes or shoes.

    Your kitchen should not be the hub through which everything passes. It's a working area and should be for cooking.

  • just_janni
    7 years ago

    The above diagram is key to understanding the flow of this house. You really ARE running every single activity or 'to do' right through the middle of the kitchen - the most dangerous area, the mostly likely to be congested, and the last place you really want folks passing through.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    One other quick thought. Don't rush it.

    We were already in permitting and there were a few things that were bothering DH and myself. We are building on a relatively small city lot so had additional restrictions. We are so glad we decided to take a step back (and in our case buy a little more land). Doing that allowed us to fix the things that were bothering us inside and outside, rearrange a few things like our master suite, and overall make the house so much better than from when we started.

    The above diagram is key to understanding the flow of this house. You really ARE running every single activity or 'to do' right through the middle of the kitchen - the most dangerous area, the mostly likely to be congested, and the last place you really want folks passing through.

    And that is why I asked if the architect is a licensed architect because she should have seen this and gently led you in a different direction. :)

    (I'm a New Yorker by birth, so I'm a lot more blunt.)

  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    We do plan on having a washer and dryer in the master closet. (No long trips for laundry) We were waffling on the huge tube and it does seem to make sense to do a much smaller one and give more room for the toilet. As far as the kitchen goes, everyone that has an attached garage usually has to walk through the kitchen right? Not concerned about distance between master and bedrooms 2 and 3 and actually embrace it. Does anyone on here agree?
  • just_janni
    7 years ago

    I think that the CONCEPT of a split bedroom plan is a good one. However, I am at a little bit of a disadvantage here because I can't see the room dimensions clearly - but can you use a string to map out the true distance of some of these trips?


    For example - going from the master to bedroom #2 (and even giving you a break assuming the midnight runner is on the closer side of the bed) I used a measure of the 13' based on Bedroom #3 dimension that I could read - and it appears that to actually walk a path that was was about 7x13 - or 91 feet.


    Also - I am not so sure where the fridge is in the kitchen - but getting a bottle of water in the night could be 5 or 6 times that same measure.


    It appears that you assembled a series of boxes to represent what you wanted for rooms, and let the design kinda sprawl. it's led to bad flow, a complicated foundation, and I still think that you may have issues with your roof dwarfing the overall first floor, too, because of the size here. Also - you'll need to work on the siting - take the exterior deck - it won't be a nice place. It'll be hot as blazes and the u shape of it will concentrate the late sun's rays and turn it into an oven.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    7 years ago

    Tell the architect about the MS diagnosis. From the looks of the plan, they don't know about it.

    Are you building in an area where temperatures can get below freezing?

  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    Yes, House will be built in Wisconsin. We are not trying to build this house with full wheelchair accessibility.

    Just planning to have the closet near the stairs to be big enough to have the possibility of it being converted to a wheelchair lift to walkout basement way down the road.

    The advice for adding more room to access the toilet in master bathroom / powder room does make sense.

    *Many people live with MS and live full active lives and do not need wheelchairs.
  • just_janni
    7 years ago

    While you might not need full wheelchair accessibility - my mom broke her hip - navigating with a walker is a whole 'nother issue. IF (and that's a big if) this is a forever house - making it more livable is a great idea. I am super healthy, as is my husband. Our house is (will be) one floor, easy to navigate (hard floors), wide aisles, daylighting, no steps to the garage or outside, large doors throughout (3'), a walk in / roll in shower, space between our island for 4 cooks (and a wheelchair), side opening ovens to eliminate burn risks from reaching "over" the opened door, and many other things that don't scream accessibility - but will allow us to (hopefully) age in place, and somewhat gracefully.

    We were VERY cognizant of how the sun impacted our house and our site. It's stuff like that, that will make a house livable and should be the value your architect brings to the table.

  • mrspete
    7 years ago

    As far as the kitchen goes, everyone that has an attached garage usually has to walk through the kitchen right?

    Yes and no. Here are a couple houses with attached garages /adjacent kitchens -- but these kitchens are better placed than your proposal. Note how traffic will scoot BY the kitchen, not through it. Note that I'm not suggesting these houses to you -- just trying to illustrate the idea of the kitchen as a "protected place" for work.

    Imagine for yourself the "flow lines" of a person coming home and entering the house; note how that person would enter NEAR the kitchen but wouldn't walk through it, wouldn't disturb the cook.



    *Many people live with MS and live full active lives and do not need wheelchairs.

    Of course! And that's exactly what every person here hopes for you, but I thought we were incorporating something like the old saying, "Hope for the best, be prepared for the worst, take what comes with a smile."

    Actually, you can do more than hope. I mentioned that my friend's MS has barely progressed, though she's been dealing with it almost two decades. Part of that is good luck on her part, but a whole lot of it is strict adherence to her doctor's instructions.




  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    As far as the kitchen goes, everyone that has an attached garage usually has to walk through the kitchen right?

    Yes, sort of, in most cases including in my new build.

    HOWEVER, for example in my build I am NOT walking through the kitchen work area. My kitchen consists of my kitchen and dining area and people coming from the garage have to only walk through the area between kitchen and dining. Meaning no one crosses anywhere near the working part of the kitchen and they shouldn't.

    Secondly, my kitchen is not so centered that EVERYONE and EVERYTHING has to cross through the kitchen. In fact other than coming in from the garage, the only reason to go through the dining area of the kitchen is to either get to the powder room or to go to DH's study. Nothing else.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Since I did it for your house, I thought I'd show you with the same colored lines my house so you can compare and see how you never have to walk through my work zone in my kitchen or dodge around furniture in the house.

    The only difference is I don't and will not be having children and my guest bedrooms are upstairs. Hence the stairs and elevator. If I was having young children, then I'd personally arrange for the bedrooms to be easier to get to.

    Again red is for entry to put away food.

    Blue is for laundry. And notice the laundry isn't in my clothes closet.

    Green is for a guest going to the powder room. Notice you can't see the bathroom from the kitchen and you don't have to walk through the work zone of the kitchen to get to the powder room. Additionally if a guest is outdoors in the backyard, it's easy for them to enter to use the bathroom without having to walk around a maze. There is a door right off the backyard into the hallway where the powder room is.

    If your guests are on the screened in porch or on the deck, they have to run the gauntlet through your kitchen to get to the bathroom

    And last purple for when I buy new shoes or clothes. :) That is the furthest distance, but again, I'm not having to run a gauntlet to get to the master closet.


  • Sunnysmom
    7 years ago

    I did not read thru every post so sorry if this is repeat advice.

    You stated that you expect your infants to sleep in your room til they sleep thru the night. We tried that and when one of ours was 2 years old and he had a race car bed at the foot of our bed we said ENOUGH!! The other one had severe asthma as an infant and we wanted him close by til him was about 10. That would be way to far to RUN and a lot of corners to go around when you hear that cry from a nightmare or some other concerning noise thru the baby monitor.

    Also you might consider a washer/dryer in your closet. Thats a really long way to take laundry. A lot of the new homes in my area have a stacked set in the master bath or in the master closet.

  • cpartist
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    *Many people live with MS and live full active lives and do not need wheelchairs.

    Absolutely and my wish for you is that you never need one.

    However like mrspete said, the best thing to do is plan as much as possible for the just in case.

    A prime example is my parents moved from a colonial to a ranch house in their 50s. My mother loved her colonial and it was her favorite style of house. I asked her why she was moving and she replied that she wasn't getting younger and it would be best to plan for the "just in case."

    Mind you this was a woman who cooked for the whole family every Sunday, (that was between 13-15 people), went to the gym 5 days a week, etc. Well, it's a good thing she planned for the "just in case" because when she turned 72, she developed parkinsons disease. Because she had planned her house for the "just in case" she was able to stay in the house until the last 6 months of her life. She passed away at the age of 84.

    I am 61 and my DH is 68 and we are both in excellent health. He walks 4-7 miles a day and I make it to the gym at least every other day. However we both realize there may come a time when we can't be as active as we are now, so we're planning the house for that time. We may at some hopefully distant point, need a cane or a walker or even a wheelchair, so we're planning it so we can stay in the house as long as possible. Just like my Mom. Just like you should do too.

    I had a friend with MS. (She's still doing well but we've lost touch.) She had relapsing/remitting. At times she needed a cane to help her and you can bet during those times a longer walk was no picnic for her.

    You can do better with your house.

  • PRO
    Mark Bischak, Architect
    7 years ago

    Do not locate plumbing in exterior walls, such as shower heads, even if the exterior wall is thicker.

    It may be a good idea to design those spaces that would be potentially used by a person in a wheelchair such as the garage, mud room, back entry, powder room, pantry, kitchen, laundry, living room, dining room, foyer, master bedroom, walk-in closet, master bathroom, screened in porch, exterior deck, elevator/lift, and elevator/lift hallway to be fully accessible to anyone in a wheelchair. I'm taking from personal experience. i was in a wheelchair for a period of time and it wasn't all that fun.

  • lakeerieamber
    7 years ago

    No, walking through the kitchen in an attached garage house is not necessary. In our new build we will enter into the dinette next to the kitchen so you enter near the kitchen but don't have to walk through it to access the rest of the house.

    We have 3 kids (ages 9 and under) and I always preferred having the bedrooms close together. We kept them in our room til they outgrew the bassinet at a few months old but 2 out of 3 boys still woke the ought the night until they were 2. Now that my boys are getting older (youngest is 4), I finally feel okay with our master being removed from their rooms.

  • Caroline Hamilton
    7 years ago

    Just as an aside re: age and forever homes. My husband and I built our dream home when we were in our mid and late 20's. We spent a year designing it and 18 months building it. It is a 4500 sq.ft. center hall colonial with an 1100 sq. ft. finished basement. At the time we heard a lot of these same criticisms, it's too big, wait until you have kids, this won't be your forever home, it's too much to maintain, no one needs a house that big, etc. I have now lived here for almost 18 years. I absolutely *love* this home and have no intention to sell until we retire (I am 43 now). Yes your family changes, we now have an 11 year old son, but your house will change along with it. (Ex: we converted a room into a play room for him when he was younger and needed it, we built a huge bar and entertaining kitchen in the basement, we have completely replaced all the floors in the house to hardwood, we have a completely new kitchen etc.) It was my dream home then and it's my dream home now. So many blood sweat and tears have gone into this house, I simply can't imagine living anywhere else!

  • cpartist
    7 years ago

    Caroline the only reason we are suggesting in this case that the OP try to condense the house a bit now is because the OP got a diagnosis of MS. While he is healthy now if his disease does progress, (and none of us have a crystal ball), some of the walking distances in the house he has designed may be problematic.

  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    Caroline, Thank you for being positive.

    I'm a salesperson and have always been a "go Getter". I've always had that go for it attitude.

    I figure worst-case scenario, We have to sell it. Best case scenario, We Love our new house and get to live in it for many years.

    Both scenarios we get to experience and build our dream house. I appreciate everybody's feedback and perspective on this and we will be making some changes.
  • ILoveRed
    7 years ago

    I like your plan.

    i would make adjustments to the master bathroom/closet area to make it more accessible. It doesn't look like it would be that difficult.

  • MagdalenaLee
    7 years ago

    I think your plan is pretty cool. I wish I could see the dimensions. Your design reminds me of the plan we had designed but it was too spread out which made it prohibitively expensive to build. We ended up with a plan resembling this plan but more compact. Our original inspiration is the Southern Living Harrod's Creek plan.

    Note the "gallery" that provides space to walk from one end of the house to the other without interfering with work space:



  • Caroline Hamilton
    7 years ago

    Scott good luck with the build and unfortunately your illness. I really like your plan, You don't see too many 1 story homes around here. The only thing that I personally would not like (but it may work for you) is that it appears you walk through your closet to get to the bathroom in the MB. I also don't like just having one closet to share between husband and wife. We have two room size closets in our master bedroom and mine is my sanctuary.

  • Caroline Hamilton
    7 years ago

    Also could something be converted into office space in the future? I have always needed office space for my business and my husband also ended up needing an office over the years.

  • Scott Westbrook
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    The Closet is like that so my wife can take it over.....lol. Also the little hallway is so we can get ready in the morning and not disturb each other because we have slightly different work schedules. Go in close the door and come out after showered and clothed.