Hi Al/plantcrazed/et. al., I thought I should come back and share some results from my "experiment" that I started at the end of April. The controls in my little trial were almost non-existent, but I think that actually makes the results more relevant to me and my growing conditions (and hopefully others will get something from this too). Back in April I got an order of leaves of 19 varieties of AVs. 14 came as pairs of leaves, so I decided to try growing them in different media. As I described in my post in mid-May, 14 leaves went in 100% vermiculite and 19 leaves in 100% turface fines (the smaller stuff left over after sifting for other mixes). The planting tray is an old kit I had leftover from years ago that has a clear cover for germinating/propagating. I had grand plans to carefully measure watering, leaf condition, first sign of roots/new leaves, etc. (like a good experimenter would), but the same day I planted the leaves my toddler ended up in the ER, kicking off several weeks of stress and doctor's visits, not to mention usual life events and adventures when working full time and caring for a small child. My plant care regimen settled in to, basically, watering when I noticed they looked dry. After the plantlets started to appear I took the covers off the trays, but otherwise I've just watered and left them under fluorescent lights and hoped for the best. Here are my results. Vermiculite 4 have plantlets, all of which seem to be growing alright 5 are mostly-dead or all-dead 1 formed a nice-looking plantlet that subsequently died, tho the leaf is still there and has roots 4 have roots but no sign of new leaves (yet?) Turface fines all 19 leaves are still alive 16 have multi-leaf plantlets 1 has a new leaf just beginning to appear 2 are strongly rooted and some gentle investigation revealed new leaves that just haven't broken the surface yet (I had just finished watering when I took this photo, which is why the turface shows wet and dry spots. This is what my usual watering of this tray looks like) A few other observations: the leaves of the new plants in the vermiculite are larger than any in the turface the leaves of the new plants in the turface are much smaller, but there are many of them, they are a strong green colour, and have a vital appearance (my experience tells me these are stronger plants than in the vermiculite) one variety was not in very good shape when it arrived. I considered complaining to the store owner about the quality, but see above re: bigger life priorities right now. That variety didn't survive more than a few days in the vermiculite. The leaf just rotted away. In the turface, it slowly rotted up the stem towards the leaf, but then rooted from the remaining piece of leaf and now has a lovely little plant growing: What these results say to me is that, for my horrible, neglectful treatment of these leaves, the turface was a better growing medium. I'm sure Al or Kevin/ewwmayo would have the correct terms for the properties of the two media, but I would say it seemed like the vermiculite contributed to a less stable environment - it went from a soggy mess when I watered to very dry, very quickly - and the turface was much more stable and allowed these poor things to survive despite my neglect. I've read some of the very lengthy threads about the properties of the various gritty mix ingredients and it makes sense to me that a plant like an AV that doesn't like to dry out but also hates being soggy would appreciate the turface's qualities of holding water but allowing for drainage and air movement through the medium. I think from now on the turface fines will be my preferred method for starting AV leaves (and likely other similar plants like episcias or begonias). I also moved two other AVs (a standard and a mini) into a modified gritty mix (1:1:1, but perlite in place of bark). So far nothing meaningful to report, though neither plant has bloomed and the mini seems to be happier than the standard. But with my neglect of the plants lately I don't think these results are meaningful, beyond saying that AVs can actually survive in the gritty mix even with an inconsistent and sub-optimal care routine. If there's anything interesting to report as these AVs continue to grow and I pot them up (likely into a gritty mix of some sort), I'll be sure to come back with an update. I would happily accept comments/questions/criticisms of my results, but please be kind in your criticisms of my care routine. I might be bad with my plants, but this little one is thriving: Thanks everyone, Melanie

coco does not disintegrate, it resist decomposition and last several years.. i have made a quick video showing how airy it is, and it's certainly not "dust" like it's mentioned in that 2 line sentence about the person in that link you posted say it is, and as i've said, coco can be purchased in coarser grade too. i'd imagine mixing the finer grade coco with the coarser coco would make one hell of a mix that will put the 5-1-1 mix to shame and keep so much money in your pocket.. but i think just the normal texture coco is fine, there are plenty of people who use it on thehotpepper forum by itself with amazing results. it does not compact at all despite how hard it is squeezed. very fibrous which is why it does not really need any additives such as perlite, bark, etc..which saves huge amounts of money. the amazing thing about is it has tremendous water holding capacity while still staying light and airy and not suffocating plant roots. there are so many other reasons why it's superior to just about every type of planting media out there. research and very much doubt you'll find many valid negative things about it.

Probably orchid mix - I believe they are well sorted by size (it is sold as small, medium or large in plastic bags, and size is as they say). Perhaps more expensive if lots needed. Repti bark is good, but many posted that it varies in size from bag to bag (also quite pricey if quantity is needed). I hardly use bark in gritty any more, since it is difficult to find right size (even if I don't mind sifting); and usually there is too much sapwood & I don't feel like picking it. I would like to find a source of good bark as I like to use it in 5.1.1

Yes, and using mixes specifically for 'potted' plants can be quite tricky to say the least. A balancing act too that is one does not master, your growing experience can be quite limited or very rewarding. For me it's all about sacrifice's, sacrifices made in order to attain the best possible growing experience possible without sacrificing the integrity of the mix and the vitality of my trees and their root systems. One has to be able to foresee any potential issues before deciding what to use. What might do a great job in the 'summer' might be the death of your trees in the 'winter' months. For instance: One could use a mix that hold much more water for the summer while in the end could kill your trees holding too much water come the winter and shorter days. One could use a mix that holds PWT that can be used to your advantage and disadvantage if it rains too much, stays cold for long periods of time, or gets worst as the mix break down. One could use a mix that dried out very rapidly, almost too fast for the summer and in the winter and then in summer loose their trees to not enough moisture. One could also use a mix in which you have to check the moisture levels quite often in each and every pot, for some hundreds, or use a mix that you can water every time you water for all at once without fear of root rot without having to check to see if they need water. The 511 to me is a good balance. You can add just enough smaller particles to keep the soil mix moist longer in summer while reasonably dry out in the winter in a good amount of time. You can use it on all your plants and water all your plants at the same time whether they are still moist or not. The 511 also allows you to store your trees at very cold temps, even though the pots are still moist without fear of rot. The 511 also dries out evenly and holds its structure much longer than peat or fine particle based mixes.. So If I were to match up the 'pros' with the 'cons'. I'd say the 'pros' far outweigh using a 511 mix or the like in my favor. It might be a great idea for each of us to decide what you are willing to sacrifice in the winter or the summer and find a happy medium that will work for ALL seasons to save yourself a lot of headache and certain trees their demise. What is forgiving in the summer time or in a nice warm brightly lit greenhouse structure might not bode so well for trees in less than ideal conditions come shorter colder wintery days indoors. MIke