Mamapinky0,

Don't forget the 15 minutes of processing and mixing. On a slightly more serious note if anyone is interested in DIY detergents, we did a video testing a few of them, which you can watch here. Note: we were a little ill prepared!

Loved watching him make these. Gagging over the scent. Not suprising that the Dawn formula did the best of the handmade. Some of those were crazy diluted!

Sandy1616,

It's funny, we were unable to get rid of those Purex crystals. It took a relocation of labs to finally force us to throw them away. I like to smell them, but not to smell them on me.

Thank you for the graywater information.

mamapinky0

What's the difference between Charlies and a box of washing soda and a bar of Kirks shredded...except price.

I used to make homemade detergents. Charlie's just works better. I don't know why, but I can certainly notice a big difference.

Despite the name, Charlie's is actually a detergent, not a soap

The big difference is the fat content of soap. Body bars (ivory) have between 5 & 20% free fat. Fels is around 5 as well. Instead of removing oils they add more. Old school lye soap would burn your hands and remove the oils from your skin or clothes.

Fun fact, the fat in soap also serves another purpose. Soap molecules have a hydrophobic ( fatty, water hating) end and a hydrophilic (salty, water loving) end. The fatty end gets stuck into dirt and the salty end gets pulled by running water. For anyone interested, which was probably just me, that's basically how soap works.

So, washing bedding now with Mrs Meyers Rosemary. It's still ridiculously thick, maybe even thicker than before but I found shaking the bottle for a minute thinned it out a bit.

I did check the ingredients and it appears to have changed a bit since purchasing the Lemon Verbena (LV) about a year and a half ago. They've removed one of the surfactants and all the scents are either lower in the ingredient list and/or the enzymes went up. Rosemary's scents are: rosemary, peppermint, lavender, eucalpytus, sandalwood, clary and 'fragrance (natural)', vs the LV which has just 'fragrance' in addition to the oils(lemon, fir, lemongrass).

Good news: Peformance seems very good. The scent is MUCH better then the Lemon Verbena..more of a natural herbal, slightly sweet vs flowery cloyingly sweet, slightly artificial and significantly lighter as well. Very little scent out of the wash and no scent out of the dryer. I'm guessing because of the lowering of amounts and natural oils don't tend to be long lasting. In addition I am using the same scented fabric softener for this and I did for my previous wash on the same sheets with LV

Bad news: it's Vaska-bad in terms of rinsing..4th rinse is just as foamy as the first. Sticky out of the washer. I'm rewashing with no detergent. Dosing is only a Tbsp, I'm going to try a half or 2/3 Tbsp for the final sheets..but then I'll see how that affects its performance. The 2x version may be better, but I can only get it online, and I really don't want to spend 20 bucks on such an unknown

sspeer9,

That's very interesting. I didn't notice any over sudsing when I was testing. I wonder if that missing surfactant is the key.

On regular bed sheets the sudsing was good, but I did use 2/3 of a Tbsp. The items I had a problem with were a king size cotton knit type blanket and a king size quilt type cover. I'm wondering if it was just built up detergent from poor rinsing as they are more bulky. I did use 'hot' water on those, which likely enhanced the suds. I also did a hot water wash with no detergent, hopefully that took care of the buildup. The suds were my only real issue with it, otherwise it worked well. I'm going to continue using it for the next round or two of washing and see how it does.

Just starting to do research here on non toxic laundry detergents. I am about to begin the process of trying a lot of new to me detergents and was hoping to find a shortcut by seeing the results of someone else's efforts. Unfortunately, I'm feeling a little stuck, because the reference I am using to determine which products are actually non toxic, is pretty stringent. I'm happy that it is, but, it just makes me wonder how others have approached this problem.

I'm looking at the EWG site - Environmental Working Group. A group of scientists who are rating products with A to F grades. My choice to start with, is to consider only those in the A category. Mrs Meyers for instance has grades from C to F. Ironically their Fragrance Free formula gets the F.

I wonder if anyone else has taken the EWG ratings into consideration?

EWG is a factor, but you have to be a little critical when they give poor ratings. Sometimes an F refers to a lack of disclosure rather than actually bad for you or the environment..Sometimes the manufacturers update the ingredients and give more details, but EWG hasn't re-reviewed them. Anything with enzymes and the preservatives that's required for them will get a significant downgrade, and they hate borax. I don't find their overall score consistent either. They'll give a failing grade to a product that has one F item and the remaining good, and I've seen As and Bs to many products that have more C ingredient scores than As and Bs. They seem to act like people are drinking these products versus washing and rinsing them on clothing

I am finding it requires quite a bit of study of what they are giving for grades and trying to become familiar with the objectionable ingredients. I have also read a couple of articles discussing how they give their ratings. One article said they grade sometimes not just by the ingredient, but by the amount of it that is in the formula.

Yes, I see a number of products that have been re-reviewed and then have different product grades, depending on the date of the formula and review. And you may be right, that the company gives more information and that changes the grade.

As for why they believe these products are toxic, I think it is tempting to believe that just because you put it in the washing machine that you can rinse these away down the drain and it's no problem. If there is a residue of these chemicals on your clothes, your skin can absorb them. And I find it interesting to read on other sites, that some ingredients are hormone disrupters. A lot of people have problems with hormones and reproduction issues today and it's hard to ignore this information, as it could apply to that.

Bottom line, we're never going to have a definite smoking gun from the product to the health issue but there's plenty of evidence out there that some of these ingredients, and their affects have been documented in studies. And that's not even talking about the accumulative affect, since some of them seem to be in everything. Or talking about some of the affects on the waste water.

I usually will try to find the least risky option and in this case, I'm just going to have to try some of these products on the A list of EWG, to find out how much I feel they compromise the cleaning ability. I'd be happy if I can get away with using one of these less toxic alternatives most of the time and find some benign booster or pretreatment to help with more difficult laundry problems.

Also, I wasn't able to view the test results. I guess the page was old and is gone.

Didn't realize that Charlie's was up to an A, good to see that they finally updated their scores. Nothing wrong with sticking with Charlie's, then use a pretreater on stains and some oxi for whites. I've also had good luck with Biokleen and they're high on the EWG. The cold water version has enzymes, the premium plus powder has oxi bleach and I think enzymes.

My favorite green detergent is Puracy, but it's low because of the borax.

I did find a link to the reviews from the OP. He did this back in May of 2016.

How we tested eco friendly laundry detergents

And this seems to be an update

best Eco Friendly Detergents of 2018

I did look all of them up on the EWG.org site that grades all these products for the risks to health and the environment.

Mrs. Myers Clean Day is the reviewers #1 pick - EWG rates them.... The Clean Day Laundry Detergent [a liquid] Lemon Verbena Scent - They give them a "C" That is a 2017 review. Back in 2011, they gave them an "F". They did actually change the formula. The company had a rating of poor for disclosing all the ingredients but now they give them "some". There were ingredients in the old formula that I personally would definitely avoid, and I'd like to avoid 2 of the ingredients in their new formula as well.

#2 Tide Pur and Clean - I have used Tide as a stain remover, and a bottle lasts me a long time, but, after reading about their products on EWG - I'm going to stop buying them and find something else. All of their products are either a "D" or an "F".

#3 Method 8x Free & Clear - EWG gives them a "B". They have 25 different ingredients in it. 3 that are graded a "D" that I would like to avoid. They have 12 ingredients that there is no data available on them and EWG reports they are not good about disclosing what is actually in their products. So that fact and that they use so many ingredients that have no data about them, doesn't give me confidence in this company.

#4 Another Method product

#5 Common Good Bergamot - which I couldn't even find on Amazon - and it relies on refill stations? I didn't find it reviewed in EWG either.

#6 Seventh Generation Free and Clear - EWG gives them a "C". They have one "D" ingredient that is on their High Concern list and personally I would avoid that after having read what it is all about.

#7. Green Works - is made by Clorox and I see some here on the forum favor it. Wow. EWG gives this product an "F". It has a ton of ingredients too. At least 7 of which have no data on them. They have two ingredients that make their high concern list and 2 more that make their moderate concern list. I'm personally looking for ingredients that are on the low concern list.

#8 Biokleen - the review above is using their Cold Water Laundry Liquid formula in the review, based on the photo that matches the review on EWG. Finally - a product that makes the "A" list on EWG. It has a lot of "C" ingredients that make their "some" concern list and a few that have no data. This is not green certified, but EWG feels the company is good about disclosing what is in the product. It's not scentless which is a drawback for me, but they offer a Free & Clear formula that I assume would be without scent. According to the review - it didn't do a good job on greasy clothes but if you are doing loads that don't have that problem, I suppose it could work fine for you. This is one I will probably try.

#9 Green Shield Organic - the review reports it does a poor job, so despite the fact it gets an "A" at EWG, I guess I'll be skipping over this one.

#10 Charlie's Soap - I can see that a lot of people have tried this and either love it or hate it. AT EWG - The 2011 version was given a "D" grade. The latest review in 2017 gave them an "A". I compared the two reviews and the old version had 'surfactants' in it and they give that ingredient an "F" of high concern. The new formula has taken that out. It still has two ingredients that have "some concern" but the main ingredient is simply Sodium Carbonate. You could just buy Arm & Hammer Washing Soda which is pure sodium carbonate, which is on their "A" list of ingredients and add something more to that and make your own if you wanted. I'm still looking for a recipe I would find worth making.

# 11 Boulder Clean - EWG doesn't even review this product, even though they do review a couple of others by the same company. The laundry detergent though, according to the review has Methylisothiazolinone in it, which according to EWG is bad for the environment and for skin reactions.

#12 Ecos Free & Clear - gets a "C" from EWG - it also has Methylisothiazolinone in it. Which is on the EWG high concern list for environmental damage. The review thought it struggled with every kind of stain, so another I'm not considering trying.

and the last one is the EcoNuts - I didn't find the name on EWG, but it's said to be as natural as you can get, but it didn't perform well.

Here is the link for the EWG site where they review laundry products, if you want to look it over yourself....

EWG - Laundry Product reviews

I've used a few of them.. Mrs Meyers works pretty well, but most have artificial fragrance, which on another post you said you didn't like.. I don't either.. My fav is Rosemary..Lemon Verbena is yeah..citrusy shampoo.

Tide Pur, yeah not very green and the Lavender is pretty artificial smelling. I use the unscented on occasion

Method uses Optical Brighteners..which the fact that they're pretty controversial and they don't mention this, make the article suspect, IMHO

Greenworks is pretty good, but I think the unscented is discontinued, and the scented is artificial and no idea what it's supposed to smell like

Biokleen. I think this is where you need to start based on your other threads. All work pretty decently and they score highly on EWG

Charlie's.. I like it for general/light cleaning, but yeah..you'll need to pretreat stains.. not an add a teaspoon and magic will happen detergent

Boulder. I actually have this one and like it.. nice citrus smell. Bought it on vacation (in Boulder no kidding) and between that and some powdered oxi bleach. Took care of some blood on sheets (bloody nose I swear)

Ecos.. like washing with water...

I don't know if it's considered eco friendly, but I just had to try Honest laundry detergent. Those commercials with Carrie Moss Jennings had me in a trance I suppose. It was sudsy and I guess cleaned lightly soiled clothing ok, the scent was nice, but now that I have tried it, I am over it. LOL

As for using washing soda and adding something to it....what would you add to it? Remembering washing soda on its own will not clean clothing.

SSpeer9 -

Thanks for a run down of the list and your thoughts. I think you are right, Biokleen is where I may start. The fact you’ve tried some of these “green” detergents and then report back is just so helpful. Now I don’t have to try them all. [g]

The other products I am thinking of trying are….

There are some really low risk detergents out there, with very benign ingredients but…they’ll probably not do a very good job of cleaning. Some that I thought of trying from scrutinizing the EWG list of only “A” grade detergents… and not on the review on this thread….

Eco-Me Detergent - Was it SSpeer who said he tried that and it was awful? Lot of people on Amazon like it.

Meliora - also had good reviews on Amazon but…only 17 reviews, but 88% were 5 star reviews. Very good ingredients list on EWG

Better Life - has very benign list of ingredients but awful reviews.

There are a couple of detergents meant for baby clothes … Attitude Little Ones Fragrance Free….Molly’s Suds…..

Another with a very benign list of ingredients, is Lion Bear Naked Soap Co. Washboard Wonder Laundry Powder. But they only sell on their own site and are sold out at present.

I found one detergent that actually had probiotics in it?! What? That seems to be overkill. Fit Organic Laundry Detergent Free and Clear.

Don’t think so. [g]

Mamapinky - I found a link on Pinterest that looks pretty good. Someone who is trying to accomplish exactly what I am trying to accomplish. She took that recipe with the Fels Naptha soap and the Borax and substituted out for other ingredients that were rated higher on the EWG list. She used...

Washing Soda,

Castile Soap,

Baking Soda,

Oxi Clean Baby Fragrance Free

and if you have hard water....

Epsom Salts

Here is a link to the article with the story of what she was trying to do and how it worked out. Love to know your thoughts.....

Natural Homemade Laundry Detergent - Borax Free

I found ECOS to be very underwhelming.

Meliora looks to be soap based, so I would avoid that unless you have very soft water or a softener as it will bind with any hardness in the water and build up on your clothing.

Biokleen Sport has an extra yeast like ingredient that consumes components in sweat, not sure if others do. I find it works well and I like the lavender and eucalyptus scent (goes away in the dryer like most natural scents)

Molly's doesn't have any soap or detergent that I can see. I can't imagine it being effective, but I'm sure it's an option if you have sensitive skin

I'm not convinced home made 'detergent' is any good in the long term, being as they are all soap based. I've seen a lot of people mention that their whites turn gray over time

Thanks SSpeer - That's very helpful, too, in narrowing it down.

It occurs to me to ask, are you in the laundry business? Repair washers, or something similar? You know a lot about detergent. [g]

Well again the castile soap is....soap. the baking soda and salt will do nothing but perhaps help with softening the water a bit along with the washing soda....the baby oxi is most likely loaded in washing soda so its overkill that your textile will not like...if it was me...I'd go back to the drawing board.

Problem is finding a surfactant the chemical that will do the cleaning that meets your needs.

Look at it this way...how many manufactures have more earth and people friendly products out there...many many people being paid big bucks to do this yet still there's not a product that gets an A and cleans the clothing.

Sspeer is just cray cray.....hahaha

@prairiemoon, I admire your dedication to your search for the perfect detergent. It's an exhausting task but can be rewarding. Have you heard about the product, sorry can't recall the name off hand, that uses no detergent at all. I believe it creates an ozone effect and is said to clean and sanitize laundry even with cold water.

I have had thoughts of changing to all green products, mostly those not tested on animals, but with not cleaning as well and rinsing not good at all, at least for me, I gave up on it. I did finally order Rosalie's Zero Suds, the verdict is still out on that one. Scents are a biggie with me and so far that leaves Tide FandG heturbo liquid and occasional Tide with Bleach powder and always at least two rinses and this with a top load Speed Queen.

Forgive the rambling on, good luck with what ever you choose and keep us posted.

@mampinky - It's a long post and feel free to skip over what you're not interested in reading. I provide it for anyone who is going through the same process as I am, to see where I started from and how the search is proceeding.

A&H Washing soda is 100% Sodium carbonate. [A]

Borax is basically sodium borate [F]

Fels Naptha [C]

Castile Soap [A]

Grab Green Alternative Bleach - [A]

is Sodium Carbonate Peroxide and Sodium Carbonate.

OxiClean Baby [A]

Sodium Carbonate Peroxide and Sodium Carbonate

Baking Soda - Sodium Bicarbonate only [A]

Epsom salts - Magnesium sulfate [A]

The letter grade was given by the EWG website.

Those are some of the potential and actual ingredients for this particular recipe for laundry detergent. The original recipe called for Fels Naptha, Borax, and Purex Crystals. All of which had poor grades on EWG. So the author of this Recipe replaced them with Baking Soda, OxiClean Baby, and Castile Soap all of which have an A grade on EWG.

So the formula is about as non toxic as you can get. The person who created this formula has her own blog and she reports that she’s been using it for 4 years. She said - “This recipe cleans great! I can honestly tell no difference between my recipe and store bought laundry detergent. It is also low foaming so can be used in HE machines.

She has pages of comments on her site and hundreds of questions asked. Quite a few have evidently asked her about soap scum in the washer. Enough so, that she put a Q&A on her blog.

[She also has a recipe for a liquid detergent.]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the Q&A -

Asked if she would use it on darks --- she said....

She uses it on everything - delicates to stinky gym clothes. Cleans great and has never damaged an item.

Can you use it in cold water?

She uses cold water for some laundry and in that case she dissolves the powder in a cup of warm water before adding it to the wash.

Is Oxiclean really natural?

Oxiclean is mostly sodium percabonate. When water is added it releases hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate. Eco friendly ingredients.

Do homemade laundry detergents clean well?

“I am completely satisfied with my DIY version and have been using this recipe for about 4 years and have had no problems with my washing machine or cleanliness of laundry.

About the ingredients -

Soap or detergent

Soap and detergent are made differently - Soap is made from vegetable or animal fats and oils. Synthetic detergents are made from petrol-chemicals.

Soap is considered better for your health and the environment than detergents. Detergents are toxic to fish and wildlife. Soap can react with minerals in the water and leave a residue if not rinsed correctly.

Does homemade detergent get your laundry white?

Commercial detergents get laundry brilliant white by adding a coating of harmful chemicals to clothes that make them appear bright white (normal clean laundry appears yellowish to the naked eye). These substances don't get your clothes any cleaner, but trick your eyes so that they seem whiter and brighter.

The two most common types of whiteners are bluing and fluorescing.

• Bluing is what your great grandma used to make white appear whiter, it is fine blue iron powder suspended in water. The bluing counteracts the natural yellow in items (just like blue shampoo is sold for platinum blond or white hair) and eventually wears off. (The data is still out on the safety of bluing.)
• Optical brighteners (OBAs) absorb yellowish light and re-emit it in the blue region making whites seem really bright. They can cause skin irritation and are dangerous to the environment. (OBAs are widely considered unsafe.)

To get your laundry whiter you should:

1. Use the correct water temperature – Fabrics get cleaner in warm wash water that has had detergent dissolved in it. Fill your washer with water, add the detergent to dissolve, then add laundry.
2. Allow laundry to agitate – Friction in the washing machine gets clothes clean. Allow laundry to freely move and they will get cleaner, don’t over fill or stuff your washer.
3. Give the cleaning agent enough time to work – Pretreat tough stains to give the cleaners extra cleaning time or soak tough loads instead of piling on extra detergent.

You can also naturally whiten laundry by soaking clothes in lemon juice and water, hanging them out to line dry in the sun, using a solution of hydrogen peroxide and water, or using a non-chlorine oxygen based bleaches.

Do homemade laundry detergents build up in your machine?

Soap and detergent can both work great for household laundry if used correctly. If you use too much soap in each load or have hard water laundry soap can leave a residue.

• Any “soap scum” (residue that may form when soap is used in hard water) can be eliminated by adding white vinegar to the final rinse water. Vinegar naturally breaks down soap residue. I fill my fabric softener dispenser with white vinegar or use a Downy ball full of vinegar in each load.

• Please be aware that detergent residue and hard water laundry problems also affect synthetic detergents. (This is why all kinds of laundry additives from water conditioners to brighteners are sold in the laundry aisle.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So, I do have a new machine and I certainly don't want to end up scrubbing soap residue off it. I think we have medium hard water. The author of the recipe has soft water, so she doesn't even add the Epsom salts, but I would add them as a water softener because my water is hard. She also uses white vinegar as a rinse, which I have no problem using. Whether these two adaptations would prevent all soap scum, I don't know. But it would seem that if she is still using the recipe, 4 years later, it couldn't be that big of a problem or one she was not able to solve.

I have posted a question specifically about whether she has ever had any soap scum in her machine that she had to address and I'm waiting for an answer. That question is my biggest concern about trying this recipe.

And I did want to point out, that yesterday, I was reading this comment on the Laundry forum....

[Miele Service Today - Ewwww![(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/miele-service-today-eeewwww-dsvw-vd~5076206?n=15)

And from the photos, it would appear that using synthetic, commercial products have certainly left a build up in some of the parts of that washing machine as well.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you that using soap in the washer can leave soap scum. We all know what it is like in the shower, but, I can't help wanting to find out if this particular recipe, which is different from other recipes I've seen online, has bypassed that problem. If this woman can use this recipe for 4 years, and is satisfied with the performance and isn't complaining about it causing a problem in her washer, it's intriguing. [g]. And in the process she is using ingredients that I could feel 100% happy with.

So, I am thinking of trying it. I am looking for a response from her with a direct answer specifically to whether she has had a build up in her washer.

It's probably true, that some of the commercial products you are using do a better job. A great job. Maybe even a perfect job. You're very satisfied with the performance. But for me, in order to give that performance, a lot of these companies have added ingredients that I can't feel happy about. It appears they are improving, and maybe I will end up deciding, in the end, to use one of them, but only after I've exhausted all other options to find something with ingredients I can feel happy about. I have found a couple to try and if I try the recipe, I can have something to compare to.

@ beaglenc

I’m spending more time on this, than I expected to. It’s already the 16th of January and I’m taking time away from other things I planned to do, in order to once and for all, explore all the options for laundry detergents. To tell you the truth, I’m sick of it. lol Once I started, I felt I had to follow it to the bitter end though. [g]. The information on the EWG site, really put a fire under me, I guess.

No, I haven’t heard of the product you are talking about. You’re not talking about Oxiclean right?

I do hate scents as well. I never wear perfume or cologne. I love natural scents but I find a synthetic fragrance not to my liking. And considering the problems they present, I guess I’m glad I don’t like them.

Thanks for the encouragement to finish. :-)

You realize that Epsom salts along with sodium carbonate and water cause an insoluble salt to form, right?

This was my biggest issue with Molly's powder and why I ultimately was uncomfortable even trying to use it in my washer - there was a visible precipitate even when I mixed the powder in a glass of water at a low concentration.

"Hardening Water

Fill two jars each with a cup of distilled water, and then add 1 teaspoon of Epsom Salt to one of the jars of water. Secure a lid onto the jar with the Epsom Salt solution, and swirl the jar to dissolve the salt. Then, remove the lid. Add a few drops of regular dish detergent -- not the type for dishwashers -- to each jar, and secure both lids. Swirl the jars and notice how the one without the Epsom Salts forms many more soap bubbles than the jar with the salt solution. By adding the Epsom Salt you hardened the water in that jar, which means the mineral combined with the soap molecules and rendered them ineffective.

Insoluble Salt

Mix 25 milliliters of Epsom Salt and water in one container, and mix 25 milliliters of sodium carbonate and water in a second container. Then, mix the two solutions in a conical flask. Place a funnel into a second conical flask, and then set a paper filter into the funnel. Gently swirl the mixture, and then slowly pour it into the funnel, and allow it to filter through the paper before you add more. A salt will collect in the filter paper. Once you've poured the entire mixture into the second flask, gather the filter paper -- with the salt inside -- and set it somewhere to dry. The Epsom Salt reacted with the sodium carbonate to form magnesium carbonate, the insoluble salt you collected in the filter paper."

Source: https://sciencing.com/science-experiment-ideas-epsom-salts-14030.html

@ Recorderas - No, I'm really just trying to get clean clothes without harmful ingredients. [g]. Chemical processes are not something I ever pay attention to and I'm not familiar with them. I will take your word for it, that those three ingredients produce "precipitating salts". Help me out, what is the significance of precipitating salts in the wash water? Would I be correct to guess that is part of the residue that can happen when using soap in the wash load?

I will point out that the person who created the recipe that I'm interested in trying, has soft water and doesn't add Epsom salts. So perhaps she is better off and that is part of the reason she finds she is doing fine with the recipe.

I believe I have moderately hard water, therefore, I thought adding the Epsom salts, would soften the water and make it less likely to leave behind a residue. But since your view of it, isn't seeing it that way, I'd love an explanation.

And since whether I have hard or soft water seems to be a significant variable, I've just called my town DPW to ask about how hard our water is. They are going to call me back tomorrow and let me know the number of grains per gallon.

Another ingredient I see suggested for hard water, is citric acid. So I am wondering if my water is hard, if citric acid rather than Epsom salts would be a better additive?

What happened to the comment by Recorderas? I have it in my inbox and I saw it here, now it is missing.

Think about soap this way, it leaves a film period. How much vinegar would you need in a full tub of water to help break down soap scum? Not just a cup. Try pouring vinegar on a soap scum shower floor and nothing happens unless you scrub. It's the scrubbing that gets the job done. Remember that you can scrub the outside basket of your machine, but not the inner basket or the various inlets and outlets. Using the ingredients listed might (probably) fade darks. I never put bleach alternative, oxi, hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate in the washer to clean dark clothes. There are detergents that do not have optical brighteners and I prefer them. Of course I can never remember which has and which doesn't have obs.

Truly it sounds to me you want to use the homemade laundry soap. You should if you feel strongly it will work, but be aware of the risks. I would try Grab Green before I did the home made route. I buy it at Marshall's or TJMaxx. It's less expensive there.

I edited my comment a couple of times, it seems to be showing for me right now, but wondering if that could have caused it to disappear for a while?

Adding Epsom actually makes the water harder, and creates an insoluble residue that hopefully rinses out of your washer and clothes fully, but I personally am not willing to take that chance.

Chemistry was one of my least favorite classes in school, which is why I like to leave detergent formulations to the pros that have degrees, and not bloggers!

I bought a second hand top load washer once and tore it apart to clean. We scrapped almost a three gallon bucket of soap scum out of the drum (inside where you can’t see) so I called the previous owner to tell her. She had been using homemade detergent with vinegar as fabric softner for a little over a year. She was horrified after I showed her the pictures. She stripped her clothing that had been washed in homemade in a bath tub and the water was black. She never used homemade again. In fact she said not long before her dryer caught in fire too and the repair man came to look at it to see if anything was salvagable (it was not) and she told him she was using his homemade detergent with vinegar rinses. He took her lint filter and ran it under water and it’s was completely clogged from soap scum. He ran it under hot water to show her and even that wouldn’t even move the build up. This was the reason she sold her washer since her dryer caught in fire and bought a new set. In the end she gave me back the 50 bucks I bought it for ha.

Bottom line is soap is different than detergent. I have seen first hand what it does to machines not from just her but several others too. Can’t go and buy the ingredients used in commercial detergents. I would highly highly recommend anything else but homemade. I did try it for a few months but clothes ended up dingy and with an odd smell. Thank goodness I didn’t continue. It took two hours of soaking my dryer lint filter in degreaser to get the film off. After I opened that new to me washer and scrapped all that soap scum out I had an ah ha moment so to speak :)

eta corrected the spelling mistakes lol sorry was waiting for lab work to be done and was in a hurry.

This is exactly why our grandparents were so happy when synthetic detergent hit the shelves.

Boiling water, washing soda, and soap was the standard for laundry practices years ago...along with scrubbing, soaking and bloody hands...still many stains in the linens and clothing wouldn't shift.

As far as these blogs go....do they receive payment from manufactures for promoting products? If you really look you will find many people that used the homemade and months later reported yellow, grey and stinky clothing.

I wish you luck in whatever you choose.

I think though a serious compromise is in store for you. Sadly I don't think the formula for safe ingridents and at least moderatly clean clothing exists ....yet.

By the way I also vote for BioKleen Premium Plus and Grab Green. Both contain oxygen bleach so not advised for darks or colors.

Good Luck

^^^ A hundred likes to Larisa Batchelor's post above.

Thanks to all for all the great responses, to offer the other side of things.

A couple of things….

You’ve certainly convinced me that the DIY recipes can cause problems with the machine and with soap being trapped in clothes. I looked at your links and I went back and read further on the blog that offered the recipe and saw a few things that were said, that made me question whether what she was saying was accurate.

She offered instructions on… ‘how to naturally clean smelly towels, the fool proof guide.’ Which included cleaning out the washing machine too, by soaking in vinegar and hot water and then scrubbing the interior with a cloth. Cleaning the dryer in the same way, including taking a soft brush to the lint trap. And washing the towels using regular green detergent plus 1 cup more of washing soda and 1 cup of white vinegar in the rinse. And then if the towels still smelled, doing it all over again. She suggests cleaning your washing machine with vinegar once a month. If there was no problem, why would that be necessary?

I did get an answer from her to my question about soap scum in the washer. And here is what she said…..

“I have never had a problem with soap scum in my machine, in fact I’ve never seen soap scum in my machine. The only disadvantage I’ve found to the homemade detergent is that I have to make it myself instead of being able to buy detergent at the store. Hope you find a detergent you love.”

Mamapinky suggested that …”if you really look, you will find many people that used the homemade detergents and months later reported yellow, grey and stinky clothing.”

That was something I hadn’t done and so I did look and I did find people who at least had experienced the clothing having a detergent buildup. People who then “stripped” their clothes using mineral removing solutions, producing dark water from the clean clothes. But oddly, the formula used to strip the clothing was … Washing Soda, Borax, and Calgon. That sounds a lot like what is supposed to create the problem in the first place, which didn’t make sense to me. I know the Calgon is a water softener, so maybe that’s the difference.

They did post their own photos of what the water looked like after using this formula on the clean clothes, and they reported which recipe they had used. I didn't see anyone that had used the exact recipe that I was considering. But if I took the time to keep looking I probably would.

I also find myself wondering how clean clothes that have been washed in commercial detergents would fare putting them through this same process. And looking at the gunk that came out of the hoses on the Miele washer on the thread about it on the forum, leaves me with unanswered questions still.

Bottom line....I have a new machine and I want to keep it that way. Too much information out there to point to a bad outcome to try the DIY recipes. So at this time, I am going to avoid soap based formulas, but I may continue to look into DIY recipes over time, to see if anyone comes up with something worth trying.

I am going to have to make a compromise, as Mamapinky suggested and use one of the commercial products. Try a few of them that the EWG gives an “A” grade to.

I am disappointed. Having control over the ingredients had a certain appeal. I wish there were a formula you could make at home that worked without problems.

Thanks to you all for filling in the gaps in what I found online. Very much appreciated.

Oh, btw, I did find out what the hard water test is for my water. 5.5grains per gallon or 93mg per liter.

@ SuburbanMd - I don’t think it’s about letting EWG take up space in my head. I have a good deal of respect for what they do. Someone needed to do it. And they are scientists who know more about it then I do for sure. And I even took the time to read through all the information on the site, explaining their methods. How they arrived at their conclusions and grades. How many sources they sought out and analyzed to get to the bottom of it and get some questions answered. I am very impressed with the comprehensiveness of what they do.

And I imagine what they are doing, has pushed manufacturers to clean up their act. EWG has shined a light on a lot of companies who didn’t even want to let the public know what was in their products.

And I’m simply using the results of their efforts to make a better choice about laundry detergent. Once I am satisfied that I’ve considered all my options and make a choice, I can go back to putting my focus on other things without worrying about laundry products.

I hear what you are saying, not to worry about it too much, and I'm not, I'm just going through my usual process to make a decision I'm happy with. I appreciate you looking out for me though. :-)

I have been using puracy detergent for awhile for my sons clothing however when rated on EWG it’s an F. I found a great response to that rating from the cofounder of Puracy about EWG and what they don’t consider in all their ratings. I buy it on amazon and their response is there in the customer questions but will post it below.

Prairemoon2 you said, "She suggests cleaning your washing machine with vinegar once a month. If there was no problem, why would that be necessary?'

Actually new machines need to be cleaned regularly with hot water and bleach or washing machine cleaner. Check your manual to see how often and what cleaner is suggested. Most new machines use less water and dumbed down temperatures resulting in the need to "clean" our washing machines.

Also just to point out something you have stated about the Miele, "And looking at the gunk that came out of the hoses on the Miele washer on the thread about it on the forum, leaves me with unanswered questions still." You have to remember that every time you wash clothes lint fiber, dirt, oils etc. not to mention the occasional tissue left in a pocket accumulates. I think any machine with some age and use on it would result in at least a little gunk. Dadoes would know better than me. So do not assume that is from poor quality detergent or something else, it probably is in most machines with that amount of use. I just cleaned my shower drain and it was disgusting even with a filter stopping most of the hair, it is the nature of water, skin, oil and cleansers.

Larisa - Thanks for posting this.

I think you do have to take into consideration that a company that receives an “F” has got to say something in response.

Their explanation, that Borax takes up 1% of their formula and they don’t believe EWG takes that into account, is not correct. I just read that on the EWG site, that they definitely do take it into account when giving grades.

Have you looked at the review of Puracy on their site?

They do list Borax [sodium borate] as an ingredient with an F. It is reported to be HIGH concern, because it causes developmental/endocrine/reproductive effects. And based on their explanations of what they consider in their grading, that 1% that is in the formula still ranks enough to cause high concern. Perhaps the company is saying that due to not wanting to give away trade secrets, they do not want to reveal how much borax is in their product. But - they just did. So it doesn’t add up that they didn’t want to tell EWG how much was in the formula before the grade was given.

For me that category of concern about developmental and reproductive toxicity is really on my radar, so I don’t even want to use a product with moderate concern about these effects, let alone high concern.

Here is EWG’s position on Borax…

https://www.ewg.org/enviroblog/2016/05/watch-out-borax#.Wl5yCa2ZNGU

Look at the whole review. This product has one F ingredient, 8 ingredients that get a C, 9 ingredients that are a B and 5 ingredients that get an A. That’s a lot of ingredients. The company in their statement, said “there are ONLY 19 ingredients”. [g]. That is a lot to me. Compare that to the products that receive an "A".

They also have Benzisothiazolinones which are of moderate concern for acute aquatic toxicity.

They have 4 ingredients that have no data on them.

They do have a good rating for ingredient disclosure, which is a good start. I’ve noticed a number of recent reviews have upgraded some of the grades on products that changed their formula to remove some ingredient that was problematic. Or provided EWG with better information.

The company is claiming that there is no exposure to these chemicals. That they are completely rinsed away from clothing in the rinse cycle. I don’t think they can guarantee that. Nor does that address what happens to them when they are dumped into the waste water and the effect that eventually has on the environment. If the chemicals that are of concern are not in the product in the first place, then there is no concern.

The company is saying to you - as these companies have for decades - we have done OUR OWN testing and we say the risk from this product is a 1 or a 2 on a scale of 0-4. I’m sorry, I am not going to rely on what the company that makes the product tells me is the risk. They have too much at stake to be an objective source of that kind of information.

The only way to have a chance of getting objective information, is to have an independent organization like EWG.

If a company disputes their findings, then they should have their scientists meet with the scientists at EWG and work it out. Instead of getting their PR department to make an attack online of EWG and what they do. In this response from the company, they criticized everything that EWG does and didn’t take into account anything they are doing right. It’s a one sided, PR effort to avoid the consequences of a bad review. I'd be interested in seeing EWG's response to it.

They explain that you have to have borax in a product that has enzymes in it to stabilize it. Yet Grab Green Pods has enzymes and no Borax and many of you here are happy with that product. So, that’s not right either.

That's just my take on it. I know you use the product and like it and it's not simple and clear cut to weigh everything. But, I really support having an independent organization like EWG to protect the consumer and I don't think a manufacturer should criticize what they do, in defense of their product, especially when their defense has some inaccuracies in it. EWG is not singling them out. They are very anti-Borax, no matter who is using it in their formula, including DIY recipes.

HMorton - Since I have a SQ top loading machine, that allows for straight hot water in the wash, it might be less necessary, but I will definitely check the manual to see what the recommendation is for cleaning the washer.

As for the Miele washer with the gunk - no, I don’t assume that is from poor quality detergent. Again, it leaves me with more questions. And I agree any drain, shower, washer, or kitchen sink, can collect quite a bit of gunk under normal conditions.

While less than 1% of what some call a questionable ingredient is acceptable for my family I know it’s not the right choice for others. I will say I have used all versions of puracy (fresh scent and free) and none of them leave any smell after the wash is done even the scented ones indicating to me that there isn’t any residue leftover.

Personally my husband and I have done quite a bit of research about EWG and isnt a reiable enough source for our family to follow.

Hope you find something that works for you.

What kind of scientist are at EWG? Is it a proven fact theyare scientists?

@ Larisa and all - We all do research and still come up with different conclusions. And since I am new to the subject of laundry detergents and EWG, I'm sure you've done more research than I have. In the Information Age, we are bombarded with information and many opinions and companies and organizations have their agendas. I did briefly do a search on criticism of EWG and clearly anyone who is not getting a good grade by the group, is criticizing them. And the criticism may be fair and justified or not, but it would be difficult for me personally, to devote the amount of time it would take to draw a fair and accurate conclusion about that.

On the other hand, to me personally, I don't need to do research to already have come to the conclusion that large corporations do business with their bottom line and their profit margin clearly as the motivating factor. And their PR departments working overtime to project the image the company wants to have. And covering their tracks and their butts when it's discovered that they have done something not entirely responsible or ethical.

I'm not quite sure what motivation someone would consider a watchdog group to have, other than to protect the consumer and the environment. Something that is clearly needed. I don't know who could disagree with that. I highly doubt that corporations are happy to have to answer to the public or happy with any watchdog group that is pushing to make sure that information about their products is making it's way to the public. So, it seems to follow that those corporations that are getting poor grades are going to try to undermine the watchdog group, so people don't listen to them. It's a well known strategy. Damage control.

So unless information comes out proving that EWG is making up data that they are using to grade corporations or lying, I guess I'm going to have to consider the information they provide reliable. Even if you take the grading system out of the equation, they have managed to improve the amount of information the public has about the ingredients in these products. And I'm basing my decisions more on that information than the letter grade, anyway. It's a pain to know that there are issues and it requires us to do something about it, but I would rather know about the issues and have the opportunity to do something about it.

It's a simple equation to me, a formula with the least amount of ingredients that have any indication of toxicity that is still able to clean clothes. And any company that is trying to take the toxicity out of their products and shows actual concern for the health and well being of my family and the environment, I want to give my business to. And the only way I am going to figure that out, is by washing clothes with the products that have the least amount of toxic ingredients until I find one that works for me. Obviously, many here, have already been going through that process a lot longer than I have. It's too bad, that choosing a laundry detergent has to be so difficult. [g].

I'm sure my long posts are tiring. Many of you have already figured some things out for yourselves, I"m still wrestling with them. I will be out of your hair pretty quickly at this point. I have gathered a lot of information and appreciate the help that you all have given. It's basically at the point of just trying more products to find the one that works out for me. So thanks for all the help.

Until EWG becomes a non-profit and uses science to prove their results and quites taking corporations money and then rating their products higher than others who don’t donate EWG is just that a view an a lot of people won’t and can’t and take them seriously. Too much data to prove that (Been proven scientificlly with their report on sunscreen to name one). They still have products listed on their site that have NOT been updated since 1993 dispite those companies sending them scientific data to prove they have changed formulas or are wrong in the first place. But again that’s my thoughts on this and everyone can have their own. Back to laundry detergent, let us know what you find that works.

I do small amounts of laundry so I don't buy those big jugs which rules out Ecos and others. I've found that Grab Green tabs do as good a job as Persil or Tide. The unscented get an A from EWG. The scented get a B.

Do use the Henkell's German liquids because Germany has stricter green laws than we do. They are likely similar to some of our concoctions but I can stand the fragrances. The Sport Wash is very good.

Apart from those, I'm reducing my stash. About to use the last of the Persil liquid for colors, which is excellent but likely not very green. I use Le Blanc linen wash on my sheets and there are no ingredients listed for that nor has it been rated so who knows. But it does a superior job.

Mostly, though, I will just use the grab green. They also make a delicate. Good rating. Good results. Easy.

As for EWG, I agree it should be updated more often. However, there is nothing else out there than is as rigorous and methodical. I certainly trust it over the FDA, f.ex. or the Good Housekeeping seal.

Here’s a new one however it’s not on the EWG. I ordered it to try from my son and daughter and reviews look promising. It’s an branded amazon product part of their new line. I have heard since they acquired Whole Foods it may be available there soon too.