I grow Thalictrum rochebruneanum and find it is happy in full sun to part shade, based on where it self-seeds. In one spot where it only gets 5 or so hours of morning sun, it is more likely that the stems aren't as sturdy and it is more weeping or leaning but in general it is upright and doesn't need support while it's blooming, even in a fairly exposed location. It isn't happy in really dry situations and in general seems happiest in moist, well-drained soil. I haven't tried it in really wet settings since I don't have a garden that's really wet but it is happy where it never dries out. I love this plant even though it self-seeds some because it's easy to remove where unwanted, and it plays well with others, finding empty spots and then soaring into its full height in summer when things can be a bit slow. Because it is so airy, I don't mind having it even at the very front of the bed.

I have a couple kinds of monkshood. I tried one in a drier spot in mostly shade and it sulked, so I moved it and it's happier in a spot with morning sun and a bit more moisture-retentive soil. I also have one I planted in my most damp garden which never totally dries out though isn't soggy, and is in bright shade until 10 AM and then full sun the rest of the day. It is really happy there, so despite its reputation for liking shade, this far north it is fine with full sun if it doesn't dry out.

I don't grow Digitalis mertonensis, but I grow D. purpurea, one of its parents. It is miserable if dry, getting large brown patches along the edges of leaves, so this is one best in an area that doesn't dry out.

I haven't grown Campanula persicifolia for years, but my memory is that it isn't fussy about sun, growing more densely in sun than in bright shade, but flowering regardless. Mine was on the north side of a building, but with a large open area on other sides.

I grow that meadow rue. It got morning sun and afternoon shade in its original location and it grew 6' tall. I moved it where it gets mid-morning to afternoon sun and it's not happy. Right now it is 3' and we've had some days in the 80s. The top droops and the leaf margins burn.

I like variegated Solomon's Seal with my hostas, but they only get 2' tall. The all-green gets taller. Direct sun will lighten the leaf color but they've never burned. They also don't mind dry soil. I have Asian lilies in dappled shade for height. I was surprised at how well they do. A few will lean toward the sun but I use individual stakes for them. That is a problem with any tall flowering plant that is in mostly shade.

Toad lilies might work too. Mine get sun until about 2 pm and have never burned. They're real spreaders so you'll have a nice show of tiny flowers in late summer/early fall.

That is a spectacular picture mayflower.

Thanks, rouge. DH is a photographer, but toad lilies are a spectacular flower.

but toad lilies are a spectacular flower.

If one is 6" from said flower ;) !

As said, stopped using toadlilies because of the lily beetles.

Re Thalictrum rochebruneanum (the species): have had one for about 10 to 15 years. Moved it because the flower didn't look so good in front of the eaves trough. Hence it went from semi-shade to the back of a full sun bed. Several years after the move, it's back to around seven foot tall.

In terms of what you could call a flower-to-leaf ratio, I find there's not enough flower with that Thalictrum species and it tends to flower above, rather than as part of, our mixed perennial beds. I've also found other species of Thalictrum and cultivars more showy; and also with more delicate foliage.

Admittedly I've had a reasonably long-term exposure to only one T. rochebruneanum plant, but I'd say, for a large garden with a big area to fill, T. rochebruneanum, planted in threes, etc., might be a useful long-lived, low-maintenance perennial.

I'd highly recommend Arend's (fall) monkshood for a mixed perennial garden, at least here.

Thanks!

I’d like the height of the Thalictrum
rochebruneanum I bought but do they achieve the 2-3 foot width I see online? Pics I see online focus on the flowers, not the
whole plant. If they do, then I need to
find a space for the other two. I have a
small narrow woodland garden I am working on. But that is dry bright shade
under trees. Hostas and ferns doing well. Gradually adding more woodland plants. It has a bit of dappled morning sun. I do supplement with water, and it is terraced to retain rainfall.

I bought a monkshood arendsii for a
different, sunnier bed last year, and sadly, it did not come back. (unless it
disappears entirely below ground, I see nothing where it was) Moisture was
probably not consistent there. I wonder
if it would like this bed with more shade and a bit more moisture better

Linnea, I think mine have a basal rosette of 12"-18" when mature, but the stems of flowers may make the plant wider. I think you could easily fit all 3 plants in a 2'-3' radius since the basal foliage isn't particularly dense, and they will be more effective when planted in a cluster. As Sunnyborders said, the flowers are airy and loose as is the stem foliage. I just went out and checked; I have several groups of three within 18" and one group of 6 within 2' (the ruler is 1'). All are several seasons old and seem quite happy.

Thank you for that added effort. :) My original
plan was to plant them all together, I
will go ahead with that.

I tried and failed to remove a shrub stump
today (so small above, so large below). I have had to hire someone to remove
it, hopefully next week, and some other past-their-prime shrubs. So for now I
will have to heel them in in a holding bed, to allow for clear movement around.

We don't have lily beetles here.

So is it common on the garden forums that you put a lot of thought and time into helping the OP and they totally ignore your post? Can't even click the thank you button? I get sick of that rudeness in the home forums and have always heard gardeners are nicer. Oh well.

MF Yes unfortunately it is all to common. Many no longer frequent here due your same experience. I now only pop in occasionally in search of new plants...

I'm sorry! The whole "Thank you button" idea is not something I have gotten used to on Houzz. I have seldom noticed it. It was not used on Gardenweb. As far as your post content, I am sorry, but I completely misunderstood what toad lilies were. I was confusing them with a very short wildflower. I had no idea that they were tall. I must not have ever seen one. My apologies. My intent was not to be rude.

Where's the "thank you button"?

linnea I adore Toad Lilies too. They are among the last plants to bloom here. I know some do not like spotted flowers but they are an intricate and interesting bloom. Bees love them.

mayflower you are lucky to be able to grow many varieties that would be borderline hardy here. We are a friendly bunch and I hope you continue to post!

Thank you, linnea. You must have been thinking about trout lilies. Toad lilies get spotted leaves too.

My meadow rue is only two stalks, the same as it was last year. It probably needs looser soil to spread. It also reseeds easily. What I'm growing now came from seed from my original plant.

I really don't like the thank you button myself--I know the effort involved in a reply so I try to write a comment back when I'm the OP. As I did when NHBabs helped me with my island last week. I got that planted this morning, NHBabs. I decided on a temporary solution for the summer--I put in a Hot Lips salvia and moved three hakone grasses to the shadier side. I still have some room to plant so I'm thinking of adding other annuals. The hummers have their salvia, so I may add flowers for butterflies. When we add the flagstones later this year, I can take it all apart for a more permanent plan.

Thank's, NHBabs, another useful contribution.

I'm with you about ongoing learning (gardening included).

I think people post/comment because they want to. If doing so results in something that bothers them, they should stop and decide whether it's worth the aggravation.

To me though, there are understandable frustrations resulting from the huge range of garden and gardening strategies/interests involved/employed, plus all the plant hardiness zones and other growing conditions referred to/implied in posts on this Forum.

Trout lilies! That must be what I was thinking of. I was thinking, "short, woods, I think they have spotted leaves...?" Well, now I know of a whole new plant. Thank you, mayflowers! I will keep my eyes out for toad lilies. I didn't see any photos of the whole plant in my initial google search, so I'll keep looking... and hopefully see the whole picture in a nursery this year. ...once I have the meadow rue, etc., appropriately placed or heeled in. The bare root plants arrived Wednesday, and I have had time to plant only 13 of the 63. I spread dirt and compost for 3 hours yesterday. Still need more!

Mayflowers - I love the Salvia gregii cultivars like 'Hot Lips' and for you it may be a perennial since there are some cultivars hardy to zone 6. I like them enough so that I sometimes plant one in a pot that I bring in to overwinter and then get a jump on the next year's flowers. Great choice (with apologies to Linnea for being a bit off topic.)

I did grow it two years ago, NHBabs, but I removed it in the fall. I probably had to make room for something else and knew I could buy one inexpensively the following spring. Last year I grew black and blue salvia and that has come back.

I'll look around for some toad lily photos, linnea. That part of the garden is hard to photograph in late summer when they bloom, but I know I have some. I have a 3' wide clump right now that's about 6" high. Their form before bloom is very much like the Solomon's seal.

While I was out gardening this morning, I also noticed my astrantia/masterwort, which would give you some flower height. They bloom late spring here, but I leave the dried flowers on because they look like paper.