robo, your visitor is gorgeous!

When my husband was alive, generally I'd fall asleep right away and not wake up during the night. After he passed away, strangely, I was able to fall asleep easily but I did wake up several times throughout the night, although I would fall right back to sleep.

Twelve years later, the pattern is still the same. Fall asleep within minutes of my head hitting the pillow (pretty consistently between 10:30-11:00pm) and wake up a couple of times during the night. Look at the clock, go back to sleep. This started when I was 59, so maybe it's just common to menopause.

Generally I will wake up on the natch between 5:30-6:00am which suits me and the cats fine. I'm a despicable morning person and love being up to savor the day's beginning. Every now and then I'll wake up at 4:00 or so and don't go back to sleep. By the time it gets to be 4:30, I'll call it a morning and get up. I'd rather embrace it than toss and turn and fret in bed. Seven hours of sleep seems about right for me.

I also have sleep issues. For me, I would get the best night's rest with a sleep mask and the most important thing, a nice, rhythmic fan for white noise. Unfortunately, the fan is not an option for me right now. I do not feel comfortable being that sound asleep and having all noise blocked out with kids in the house. I probably worry a bit too much, but my daughter is diabetic and if there ever were an emergency, I want to be able to pick up on it.

I have to remember some do nots as well with sleep. Do not drink alcohol too close to bed time, watch caffeine, etc. I also try to go to bed around the same time every night and I generally wake up about the same time every morning. That was bothersome for a while but now I try to embrace it.

I haven't read through the responses, but for me retirement has really helped! I can't tell you how many days I went to work on little or no sleep. My work atmosphere was miserable and it was hard for me to just ignore things, do my work and not let things get to me.

I do sleep better since I retired but I do have evenings I can't sleep. I usually have no trouble falling asleep but 2-3 hours later I'll wake up to use the bathroom then sometimes my mind will start. The nice part is I can sleep in or nap in the afternoon.

I'm more of a night owl then I'd like to be-----I need to retrain myself to go to bed and get up earlier.

It's so reassuring to know I'm not alone in my grouchy sleepless condition! Thanks for all the suggestions and experiences.

To respond to a few topics: my husband and I have been in separate bedrooms for years. Frankly, neither of us ever was very big on cuddling, spooning or the classic 'sleeping in each other's arms'. I really need absolute quiet to get to sleep and while my husband isn't in the big leagues some of you describe, he is a back sleeper and once he gets into deep sleep he, well, puffs is the best way to describe it. And eventually as he gets into complete body relaxation the puffing gets super loud--he actually wakes himself up sometimes. He goes to sleep and gets up very early too, and he makes multiple bathroom visits during the night. Getting my own room was a revelation, especially being able to settle into bed at night to read--it's heaven.

My mattress is super comfortable so that's no problem. Temperature, well we compromise at 75 overnight. I'd probably be more comfortable at 70-72 and he would love to have 80 or higher-seriously. At 75 degrees I'm under a light sheet or nothing, and he is literally bundled underneath a wool blanket and heavy quilt--and often puts socks on in the middle of the night because his feet are still so cold(!). Husband is 6'5" and only weighs 170 pounds so there's no body fat I guess.

I doubt thyroid is an issue but will ask at my next check up. The 9 hour nights are usually catching up after a series of 5-6 hour nights LOL.

As for the Ambien, I try not to take it unless I'm truly wide awake and clearly am not going to be getting to sleep without some help. I break the small dosage pill (5 mg) in half and that will 'trip the switch' and let me fall asleep. I don't have any morning hangover, no weird affects etc. And I don't take it nightly or even weekly other than when my job is severely stressing me at which time I use it more often.

Exercise--ah yes, that is certainly a lack in my life right now. I have been doing Pilates for several years but had to change from private lessons to group sessions a few months ago, and haven't been able to keep my usual routine. I have sworn that once the semester ends I will make it a priority and also add some cardio.

Definitely want to consider meditation, not only for sleep but for general dealing with life calmly purposes!

Thanks again everyone.

I told DH years ago that my sleep and mental health was more important to me than sharing a bed. His feelings were hurt at first, but it had to be said. He's not an every night snorer (after losing weight) so I start out in bed cuddled up to him and maybe half of the time I wake up still in bed. The other half of the time, I can pretty much "sleep walk" to the other room.

I learned a long time ago that removing myself from situations is the only way I can be comfortable. My worst nights come from noises beyond my control or that I can't get away from. I have misophonia so a cricket can keep me awake (thinking about burning the house down to get rid of the cricket), or something like sleet hitting the window can leave me sleepless. One time I had DH go out at 2am to cut off a branch that was hitting the side of the house. I can't sleep with headphones or earplugs - too uncomfortabIe.

Once all extraneous noises are removed, the best sleep comes from a completely dark room, a fan blowing, 64 degree room temp and bundled up under blankets.

I am a few years older than you are, and thankfully have had very little disruption in my sleep patterns around menopause. DH and I do drink wine with dinner, I wind down with a cup of herb tea and often a shower or hot bath. The biggest piece for me is consistent exercise in the late afternoon or early evening after work. It can be the gym, a walk or a home workout. For home workouts that run close to bedtime I do yoga. It makes a big difference in how I feel, allowing to rid my mind of racing thoughts from the day.

We sleep in a low 60's degree room, in a queen bed, complete with dog at the foot of the bed. I go to bed before DH because I am up by 5:50 and he's semi-retired, working from home.

I can't eat too close to bedtime and absolutely can't have any form of caffeine after noon. My biggest issue at this age is trying to drink enough water to stay hydrated, without having to get up in the middle of the night. I keep a glass of water by the bed and slug it down first thing in the morning.

You've gotten many good suggestions here. It's like a puzzle to find out what works for you and your DH.

SO and I both have struggled with sleeping through the night and I guess it is a typical problem for late middle age. My hot flash phase seemed to be mixed in with my getting up several times to pee phase. My nights were a mix of getting up to pee, getting a hot flash, throwing off the covers, getting chilly and piling them back on, rinse repeat. Often toss and turn and worry. Not so much anymore. What helps: of course, sleep hygiene which I introduced SO to (same time of bed, relax before bed, only sleep in bed, etc.) No alcohol, because for me, it triggered hot flashes, and for SO sometimes too. Melatonin works for us. There are varying doses, typical ones being 3 and five mg. I start off with 3 mg. and if I wake up and can't get back to sleep, I'll take 1 mg or 2 mg. more. So I get the 1 and 3 mg. pills. The dosing for melatonin goes up to ten. SO takes five. With that stuff, it's an "as needed" thing, I'll take it for a few days to get through a patch of waking up in the middle of the night, and then lay off of it. It's recommended to use it for a two weeks on, two weeks off regime. It makes a lot of people groggy in the AM, so could be used on weekends to catch up on lost sleep. If I take a low enough dose, it's not so bad for me in the AM.

EXERCISE and fresh air is something both SO and I find very helpful. Lots of folks i know swear by it. I can't drink anything, no matter how relaxing, before bed or I wake up to pee in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep. Other herbs that help with sleep are valarian, chamomile and passion flower. SO doesn't like it when I leave in the middle of the night, but I often can sleep better in the guest room if I'm tossing and turning. It's not an every night thing. SO does well with white noise and ear plugs. Both of those bug me to death and keep me awake, so we have a tough time sometimes if he can't sleep. He's very big on total darkness too, which doesn't hurt.

But really, the silver bullet for us is exercise. If I can't sleep in the middle of the night, I'll get up and do 20 min. of yoga and then back to bed and I'm usually out like a light very soon after. Another thing that works well for me are relaxation tapes, like the kind for biofeedback. I did biofeedback once to treat headaches. Didn't work worth a darn for the headaches but I ALWAYS fell asleep before the tapes were over.

I have a huge beef with the FDA. That being said, if you read their own literature, how could you want to take Ambien which replaced Halcion as a leading sleep aid when it was introduced?

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/drugs/drugsafety/ucm085906.pdf

Magdalena, you and I are psychic noise twins. I once got out of bed and stormed all over my apartment complex trying to roust a BIRD that was singing in a tree nearby loudly enough to prevent me getting to sleep. A whining mosquito in the room, a dripping faucet, a clock ticking...any little noise will keep me awake. I must say that one of the truly wondrous benefits of installing impact windows has been the noise reduction they brought; I literally don't hear sounds from outside now.

Sleeping problems are rare for me, but I think there are some things I do that may help. I'm not a snacker (at least not a night-time snacker LOL), eat a few hours before going to bed, and I rarely drink caffine. I'm also active, even into the evenings and unless the weather is bad/too cold, get outside every day. I take a hot bath to relax/unwind a while before bed. Up early and in bed between 10:00 - 11:00 and I'm pretty regular with that schedule. Hubby and I sleep well together for the most part, if he snores, I ask him to turn over. If I snore, he goes back to sleep. He can sleep through anything. Pup also sleeps with us (end of bed, by my feet) with no problems. Occasionally I will wake during the night and it takes a while to fall back asleep, but that's pretty rare. Menopause hasn't seem to affect my sleep habits.

According to my mom, since birth I had great difficulty falling asleep ... I used to feel certain I would just absolutely "die" from sleep deprivation .. I didn't die, but I think without ambien I might have !!!

I love to sleep. I really do. I look forward to bedtime, and we have a silly little thing we do whenever we fall comfortably into bed. We snuggle down into it and exclaim in a ridiculous, breathy voice, "Ahhhhhh! The bed!" That said, DH and I do not share the same bed for sleeping. I have a king in my room and he has a queen in his. I've gotten to where I sleep all OVER my bed, and at this point I cannot imagine sharing it with another person. A couple of cats always start out on the bed with me (they are such creatures of habit), but even they tire of my rolling around and vacate the room completely when I fall asleep.

I have to have total darkness and white noise (I have one of those little round white noise machines, and I even travel with it - I'm that hooked on it). DH snores (no sleep apnea, he was tested), and we tried to sleep in the same bed early on in our marriage and but that didn't last long. Even when we vacation together, we choose accommodations with two separate bedrooms.

Although I generally sleep pretty good these days, there are the odd occasions when I just don't get enough sleep, and I am about worthless the next day. That's why it is a big priority for me to ensure that I do sleep well. My days of drinking anything alcoholic or caffeinated before bed are long over. I also notice that I'm ready for bed earlier than ever before. Some nights I'll even start getting ready to hit the hay as early as 8:30! Being in bed by 9:00 is a little bit of a luxury; otherwise, my "bedtime" is around 9:30. If I don't get into bed by 10:00, I feel like I'm having a late night! LOL! I was going to add, "Isn't that pathetic?" - but you know something? It's not. It's WONDERFUL. ;-D

I love reading Ambien stories. seems like powerful stuff!

http://ambien.blogspot.ca/2010/12/ambien-walrus-collection.html?m=1

LOL @ the Ambien stories! So very true. I only tried it once, and apparently every third word out of my mouth was f***. I remembered nothing, past trying to watch TV and realizing I suddenly had not double, but triple, vision.

My friend's father used to take it often, and they had some real horror stories. One night he drove to Sonic wearing only his tightie-whitie underpants. The police were involved in that story.

Frightening stuff, IMO!

I love to sleep, but it's been a less than ideal process the past 16 years. I wake 6 to 8 times a night to toss off the covers. That's been ongoing since menopause kicked in. Fortunately, it's usually not too difficult to drift off again. Being retired I don't stress about having to wake at a certain hour. I'm typically out of bed by 7:30 having gone to bed 8 hours earlier. It's not a solid 8 hours of sleep, but for the most part it suffices. Then there are the occasional nights when all I get are 2-3 hours. The next day I'm a zombie. Such is life.

My dh is now retired, but when he worked he was gone half the time. I gratefully share my bed with his snoring self. Wouldn't have it any other way. I slept alone way too many nights. I cherish the ones we now have together.

I need to hear noises. Would totally freak with any device that covered them up, but I get why people rely on them.

Tina, such a picture perfect life you lead. Must be nice. ;)

Oh, no...mid-40s and in the past few months have been sweating at night. I couldn't figure out why because our room temperature is consistent. I assumed because it's spring. Is this menopause?

I have used melatonin with success, but I have to take it 30 minutes before bedtime and knowing I have a full 8 hours to sleep.

My friend is 55 and does a shot of Nyquil when she needs a good night sleep. She understands the effects of doing so but at this point says good sleep outweighs anything Nyquil is doing to her.

Runninginplace, this thread triggered a memory of my mother taking the herb Valerian for sleep. I've included a few links below. Now that I recall this, I'm going to recommend it to my friend instead of her shots of Nyquil.

Good luck and please report back if anything works for you.

http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/herb/valerian

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2003/0415/p1755.html

running, I chuckled at the puffing...it reminded me of Mom. When we would travel and share a room, she'd do what I called "tea potting". When she exhaled, it would be through her lips with a little poof.

Wanted to mention a few things. I think I've had some success with DIM for hot flashes. It's supposed to help your body utilize the estrogen it does have. I take it before I go to bed. It does other things too.

In addition to cold, dark is important for sleep. You need to get adequate exposure to daylight during the day as well as a gradual dimming of light at night to help you prepare for sleep. So even if you're up, look into dimming the lights, turning down the brightness setting on the computer. On my TV, I am able to set a custom setting which is darker than normal so the light it generates is less.

I and my GF also found that when we went on a low carb diet (Schwarzbein Principle) we were sleeping much better.

Mother always had bad insomnia and she found taking a hot bath helpful. I suspect it was the body heating in the water, and then the cooling down that had the helpful effect.

TR, one year for my birthday SO got me a card that read: "You know you're old when you get up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom . . . and it's 10:30 PM!"

I got him into sleep hygiene when we started going together. He used to say, "I'll sleep when I'm dead." But then I say, "If you don't get your sleep, you may end up that way!" He has a LONG commute for work and starts early, so we have to be in bed by 9 for a 5 AM wake up. So we have to start our bedtime routine at 8 PM, which makes me feel like I am 5 years old again! We have basically no evening life during the work week! Sometimes he even has to get up at 4 or 4:30. In the summer sometimes when we go to bed we can still hear the neighborhood kids playing outside! But in my book, it doesn't pay to skimp on sleep during the work week.

Magnesium oil spray has been nothing short of a miracle for me. I learned a lot about magnesium a few months ago (apparently most of us are severely deficient), didn't expect it to work since nothing else other than Ambien had. Gave it a try, forgot to pay attention as to whether it was helping (again because I held out no real hope. I was still doing as OP and using small amt of Ambien to fall asleep) but maybe a couple of weeks in noticed I was sleeping SOUNDLY all night. If I awoke in the middle of the night, I fell back to sleep...a first in many, many years. I very seldom take Ambien now unless we're traveling or I have something big going on the next day. This is a link I pulled but there's lots of other info out there as well as FB groups: http://themagnesiumperfection.com/97/magnesium-oil-sleep/

Several friends have benefited. Some for sleep, some for leg cramps, and other issues. I would strongly recommend reading all you can about it.

Also, I'd like to suggest that the OP be given a break regarding the Ambien. She's an intelligent adult who has been using it for a very long time and knows how it works for her. If she's like me, she will be able to easily leave it behind once she finds a solution to her insomnia. And, if she's like me, she has tried everything else including most/all suggestions above and learned that Ambien is the one solution to help her fall asleep for at least a few hours and it significantly beats the alternative. Not everyone reacts poorly to Ambien and 2.5 mg/night is nothing to get all twisted over.

Interesting about the spray DSG, I've never heard of that, although I have heard many people have magnesium deficiencies.

It's interesting in what some people need versus others to sleep. I'm one who doesn't mind a little noise - I mean I can't imagine NO noise at all. If noise bothers you, does that mean no opening the windows? I'm okay with light, I actually like a bit of light rather than total complete dark. I would go ape crazy with a sleep mask, and probably ear plugs too! Once thing I definitely need to sleep good is a nice cool room. Love my ceiling fan too, use it year round in our bedroom.

Dsg, the magnesium oil is an interesting option I'd not heard of. I may give it a try because sounds like it relieves some of the underlying issues-stress, etc-that make sleep problematic. Tomorrow is grocery day so I'll try to find some to try out-thanks!

And thanks also for the comments about Ambien. I'm very well aware that it can be a scary drug. Years ago when it was first on the market I accidentally took a full 10-mg Ambien in the morning by mistake thinking it was a look alike pill and got very foggy and messed up--at work! Thank heavens my assistant called my husband and he took me home. That was certainly a scary event, not least because I didn't realize I'd taken the wrong meds till I started feeling very out of it. Later that year when the FDA lowered the recommended dose for women to 5 mg, it made a lot of sense to me! When I take Ambien now, half a dose does what I need when I'm desperate: puts me to sleep without any side effects. I also should be clear that using it is a relatively infrequent occurrence. I may need it several times in a really bad week then go a month or two without taking any. As with most things in life everyone is different and what is a problem for some isn't for others. I am very grateful to have Ambien as an option and choice for my sleep problems.

Tina, yes I really do need absolute quiet. So I never sleep with my windows open. Keep in mind I also live in South Florida so the ambient noise at night is frogs, bugs, owls, and when the wind is right the sound of the busy highway that's a half mile away. Sleep doesn't come with the windows open! When my kids were living at home I always used ear plugs. Don't need them now, I can usually ignore my husband puffing away in the bedroom next door :).

rip, I'm so glad you're willing to give the mag oil spray a try. I just want to mention that my insomnia was never stress related. I don't know exactly how or why the magnesium works but I haven't slept this well since I was a child.

A couple of things I want to mention. 1) The spray does cause stinging with some people, it does with me on my arms but not so much my legs. I've found that magnesium lotion applied immediately after the oil eliminates the stinging. I don't know for sure but suspect any good body moisturizer may do the same. 2) Some people experience some really crazy (not necessarily bad but very out there) dreams for awhile which happened with me. This ran it's course and is no longer an issue. 3) There are different forms of magnesium so if you consider supplements by mouth, the "glycinate" form is best to help with sleep, other forms help with other issues. However, from what I read, the spray is significantly more effective and is absorbed into the body much more quickly and effectively than supplements by mouth.

I really hope you experience as much benefit as I have; every morning when I wake up after a good night of sound sleep, I'm still amazed! FYI, a friend of mine began the spray for night leg cramps and insomnia. She had been taking an otc sleeping aid and was hoping the spray would allow her to discontinue the pill. The spray helped immediately with her leg cramps (same with a couple of other people I know) but it took a little longer to help with her insomnia than it did for me. She was actually getting discouraged but it eventually did help and she no longer takes her otc med. So, if necessary, I'd suggest you give it a good long while before determining that it isn't effective.

Good luck; I hope you'll report back!

Dsg, I ordered some magnesium spray from Amazon which will arrive tomorrow and I am very eager to try it out. My experiment may be somewhat thwarted by the fact that the university academic cycle is winding down; last day of classes is Friday and graduation is May 6. My stress is almost entirely cyclical and it runs on the school year :) pattern so the next few months are almost always much better for me. However I"m going to try it and see how I feel!

One more Ambien comment--Turquoise Rose mentioned a side effect having the F* bomb coming out of her mouth constantly. I have a very similar reaction, except the F* bomb appears in my vocabulary when I've had a few nights of severe sleep deprivation if I don't use the Ambien LOL.

That's understandable runninginplace. We're fairly rural, so no traffic noises. Not sure how I'd handle the frogs either LOL, but I do like a little noise. I don't think I would make it in one of those close-up-tight high rises where I wouldn't hear anything from outside! Although growing up, we lived rural also - BUT - we had a train track right near us. Probably would drive some people insane, but you get used to it - to where you don't even hear it.

Cindy/Natal, not picture perfect by any means, just content.

Add me to the club of sleep challenged, have been this way for years. Anyone familiar with the concept of bi-phasic sleep? This is the pre-industrial pattern of sleeping in two, four hour shifts a night. The time between was greatly valued for prayer, meditation and procreation! So I try not to stress out over my midnight wakings, the cat is always happy for the company☺️

Historical sleeping patterns

carolv, I was going to comment on bi-phasic sleep. I first learned about it in a great book called Dreamland.

The book was fascinating, written by a journalist who was an insomniac. He decided to explore the history of sleep. Sleeping in two shifts was our natural pattern. So many people, me included, wake up during the night. I now think it is our brains trying to return to the pattern nature intended.

I go through periods of sleeping like a log and barely sleeping. If I can tell it's going to be a sleepless night, and it is still early, I pop part of an Ambien. They work so well for me, and seem to break sleepless spells.

What works best for me is to go to bed at the same time and go through exactly the same routine. I always read for 45 minutes before going to sleep. It's funny, but I have discovered that the more I enjoy the book, the better I sleep! It also helps to be single. Ahhh!

The biggest impediment to sleep for me is the damn neighbors whose floodlight shines in my bedroom. I have asked them nicely to turn it off but they refuse. I think I will install one of my own and shine it right back at them. Turnabout is fair play!

Running, I was on youtube tonight looking for something unrelated to magnesium but this showed up in recommended videos. I watched it and thought of you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pI3nT-_kW8

What a wonderful resource this group is! I've learned a lot, laughed a little and felt immensely reassured as I read through all the comments and ideas.

If nothing else, an online forum is guaranteed to make you open up your mind to other options than what you're doing to solve or improve a life problem and so this one has. Am going to try some more natural sleep aids (helloooo magnesium), and am also going to try working on some of the stressors in my life to, as my southern daddy says, get my mind right which hopefully will help me get to sleep better :).

I'm another who wakes up in the middle of the night at least once every single night. Most of the time I go back to sleep. Don't have a clue what triggers the wake-up at 2 or 3 in the morning but it happens. We also live in a rural area with no external light or noise except frogs and birds, so any unusual noise will wake me up. DH changed some settings on his new iphone and those starting pinging one morning around 5:00 am on the weekend and I was awake! He slept right through it of course. So when we travel, I sometimes have trouble with the usual hotel room noises.

I do find I sleep much better with exercise. And staying away from any triggers like chocolate also help. I long ago quit caffeine after lunch time and rarely drink more than a small glass of wine or part of a beer in the evening. That doesn't bother me but eating later than usual often does. Since I typically get up fairly early in the morning during the week, I start preparing for bed around 8:30 or 9, take a warm shower, read in bed for a while and lights our by 10. Then another shower in the morning wakes me up. Yeah, I know, I'm a shower freak but I can't go to bed unless I have a shower.

My family doc prescribed Ambien for me several years ago when I was traveling overseas a lot. I rarely take it unless I'm across the pond and when I do I tolerate it just fine. I have taken it at home when DH was around and he didn't notice anything unusual. Often I only take a half tablet. Simply Sleep (OTC) also works well for me at home when I know I need a good night's sleep and I also take a half of one of those.

I just glanced at some of the comments, but I can relate to your issue. I'm 55 now and have been having sleep issues for 1 1/2 yrs now. I first tried everything that I could find to help...better sleep enviro, melatonin, tea, etc, with no help at all. I finally mentioned it my my Dr who sent me to a sleep clinic. We disc that I had sleep apnea, even though I have never snored. As a result, my dentist made a mouthpiece for me to wear nightly, that has helped me tremendously. I now am getting about 6 hrs nightly and feel a lot better. The sleep clinic was an ordeal, but it gave me ans and helped to provide a solution for me. The sleep clinic can help you to determine why you aren't sleeping....whether stress, apnea, and provide you with sol to help you get the sleep that you need. Good luck!

Agree with above. My doctor had me scheduled with a sleep clinic but it was at the same time I discovered magnesium which seems to have taken care of the insomnia. I'll definitely go through with it should I ever find the magnesium is no longer beneficial.

I forgot about magnesium because it has just become part of my routine, but it helps me immensely with sleep. I take calcium (600mg) and magnesium (300 mg.) I have read and heard that calcium and magnesium both help with the absorption of the other. Not sure about the Mg. form, but I try to find calcium citrate because I read that was best absorbed. Ca is really hard to absorb. I have downed my dose from 1500 mg. Ca after reading the studies that indicate that level is too high. I also take this with Vit. C which helps with absorption. No iron in the evening, it doesn't work with Ca. I take a very small dose of iron a couple of times a week in the AM before breakfast. Iron helps with sleep too, but one should never take too much of it, it is toxic at higher doses.

This is one of my favorite calcium supplements if you're looking for a pill rather than a spray. Pills have worked for me, but if they didn't I would for sure try a spray. http://www.amazon.com/Schiff-Super-Calcium-Magnesium-Softgels/dp/B0019LW20K?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_sfl_title_28&smid=ASEVS99O6FS73

Thank you, Ipinkmtn, for the calcium/mag info and link. I didn't know about this and am excited about getting both mag and calcium in one supplement!

Somewhere I read or heard or both, that the ratio is double the Ca to Mg. So 500 mg Ca, 250 Mg. etc. Then C for absorption. D of course is what everyone is touting now, so I guess that's OK too. D is hard to absorb. Calcium citrate absorbs better but is much harder to find in the right dosage. Don't take iron and calcium together, but Vit. C helps both of them get absorbed so I take C in the am with an iron pill, and in the pm with Calcium. You can't hardly overdose on C, it just gets peed away which is a waste if you take way too much. But you can overdo it with Iron or Calcium.

If I find myself getting the weird restless leg thing at night, I get up and do some yoga and take one or two of those pills, and I'm off to dreamland. Forgot to mention that yoga helps me sleep pretty good. I usually forget to do it or put it off, but sometimes get up and do 15 min. if I'm just tossing and turning and not getting to sleep.

Ipink, I've turned several people onto the mag oil spray at night before bed for leg cramps. Every one has gotten immediate relief and improved sleep as a side benefit. Magnesium is also touted to help with pain. I've also read that it's really difficult to get too much magnesium which is why I take a supplement to assist with calcium and the spray for sleep.

I completely agree with everyone who said they have separate rooms. I used to be so tired, even if I thought I had slept through the night. Earplugs didn't help. DH was a snorer big time (it was worse when he was still drinking-I could sometimes hear him through the wall after we began to sleep in our own rooms). I love having a bed to myself when I sleep.

I also need dark, but because I like to wake up and see the light and trees, I wear a sleep mask rather than have blackout curtains.

Have to say that those two changes made all the differences to me. Oh, and make sure you are getting enough exercise. I am older than you are, but I make sure I do something every day. Walking and occasional weights (8-10 lb 3x per week minimum for only 15-20 minutes) plus gardening in season is all I do-probaly not enough, but it is something. Still, if I don't do something active, I don't feel that "good" tired at the end of the day.

Arianna Huffington has just written a great book about the need for sleep and how to get the sleep you need.

There is no way around it, everybody needs the full amount of restful sleep to make the needed repairs on your body and hunt down toxins, pre-cancers,etc. Sleep is everything next to good food and moderate exercise. Some of the most beneficial processes happen only during sleep. The biggest release of human growth hormone happens during sleep. But you need the full amount of sleep and especially when your estrogen begins to taper off, it's harder to stay asleep so you need to make your sleeping habits regular and have a dark quiet room thats not too warm. Dont look at computer screens or TVs right before bed. (The color of the light excites your brain and disturbs sleep messages) Give yourself a little time to unwind in dimmer regular light and let your brain wind down so you dont lie awake in bed thinking of a zillion things like most women do. Do some easy stretching to soft music or take a bath and relax. Dont eat 3 hours before bed so your body can focus on sleep and not digestion. If you can do this, you can regulate your body systems more healthfully and your sleep and wake hormones will take on a natural pattern. You can teach your brain to sleep but it needs quiet and it needs darkness and it needs a buffer of time between normal activities and sleep time. If you get up to use the bathroom, keep the lights as low as possible.

I think its unfair that women lose the hormones that let us sleep and keep us healthy. I think when the doctors can solve this without us being exposed to cancer,etc. women will be so much happier. I'm all for understanding nature but this needs to be worked out. Women shouldnt be having to take NyQuill or whatever out of desperation.

How do you know if you need calcium/magnesium? Are there any side effects from taking these? From my d&c, biopsy, etc. last fall, I know I am definitely menopausal. I've never had a broken bone, other than a little toe. I think I probably get sufficient calcium in my diet, but not sure about magnesium. I have a wacky thing with my blood (have been checked out by a hematologist) and have occasionally shown to be slightly anemic. It's never been suggested that I take iron though. It is hard on the stomach, so I hesitate. It's been about 9 months since last having my blood checked, and had a (bleeding) polyp removed when d&c was done. Need to schedule my physical, and hopefully with the polyp gone, I won't be anemic. Also, for those of you who mentioned the spray - in what circumstances would you use it rather than pill? TIA

I heard somewhere that low iron can affect sleep. Iron, as you know, is very tricky as far as absorption. And too much is no better than too little, in fact might be worse. Perhaps take a lower dose of iron, or take it just a couple times a week. Or just up your intake of iron rich foods.

It's difficult and expensive to diagnose any vitamin deficiency. I'm not a big believer in taking mega doses of vitamins. If they're not needed, you're just wasting money. But some vitamins are relatively harmless. Don't know about Mg, but if DSG says it's hard to overdo it, I can believe that. I know it is hard to overdose on Vit. C because your body doesn't accumulate it, so I don't worry too much about it. Like I said, I decreased my dosage of calcium, but I am one of those osteoporosis risk people so I try to do all the things I can to avoid that. High intake of calcium supplements has been shown to be detrimental, but it was first thought to be good, so that one is a "it depends" situation. Even if you take calcium there is no guarantee of absorption. Not sure about Mg. Diet and stress play a role in vitamin absorption for certain ones. I have just found from my own personal experience, that Ca and Mg. help me fall asleep and stay asleep. So does melatonin and yoga stretching. Meditation helps me fall asleep. Others swear none of that helps. My SO has "sleep issues" and he wants/needs white noise. I LOATHE white noise and it keeps me awake. Me on the other hand, I don't sweat about an occasional car going by or bird tweeting. Constant noise like someone playing music or a dog constantly barking will keep me up though. Light, not so much, but SO is really sensitive to it. So there seems to be no "one size fits all" sleep routine, but it doesn't hurt to try things out. The key to all of them though, is to consistently do what works for you. That's the "hygiene" part.

Had a terrible night last night. Woke up four time, laid awake a lot, but did manage to fall back asleep all four times. Had the leg thing before bed and was without my Ca/Mg pills but got good results from a yogurt and some almonds! Had a glass of wine when I got home because it was cold outside and I was frazzled but I have to add here that folks with sleep problems should seriously reconsider that glass of wine as a sleep aid. It inevitably gives me hot flashes, and it is famous for putting you to sleep but waking you up when the effects wear off. SO is convinced he needs a glass of wine before bed, and he has one almost every night, and I am equally convinced that is the reason for him always waking up several times during the night and not being able to fall back asleep. I LOVE wine, but sadly I have had to limit my wine consumption over the years due to various health problems. It's not been great for my palette, but perhaps has helped with some other side health issues, like menopause and sleep. Wine has anti-oxidants, but so do many, many other things just as much if not more.

Chocolate has anti-oxidants!!

A lot of women wake up several times through the night due to bladder issues. Doing kegals, yoga, etc to strengthen the core can help with that, but it does take time and dedication to make the core stronger. Getting up several times through the night for this issue is as disruptive to sleep as anything else.

This has been such an informative topic for me-glad I started it LOL. I did order magnesium spray, used it for a couple of weeks but didn't notice any drastic or sudden improvement so haven't kept using it. However, my work cycle is tied to the academic year and it's always a very abrupt transition from full speed ahead to total calm....which happened at exactly the same time I started this topic and the magnesium oil. So I'm sleeping great but may oil up in September when school begins again!

However, the past couple of weeks of getting fully rested has left me in an Oprah frame of mind: one thing I know for sure is good sleep is the root of all good in life ;). Can't express how much better I am feeling now that I'm sleeping well. One of my new life goals, seriously, is to do whatever I can to crank down the stress-o-meter of life once it starts to creep up again. I just can't take it any more, life's too short to go through it sleep deprived and cranky.

Hi runninginplace, if I may ask,,how old are you? I'm 55 now, and a decent nights sleep has eluded me for awhile now. I have a mouthpiece which has helped tremendously, but long for the days up until 1 1/2 yrs ago when I would sleep soundly every night.

K Sissy, I'm 58 YO-for 3 more months dammit!-and although I have struggled with sleeping well for years, as I've gotten into my 50s I find per my original post that lack of sleep is a lot more debilitating than when I was younger.

I agree totally. It seems to elude me lately, which leads to a serious lack of productivity.

The first and only time I took Ambien, I woke up during the night and started chewing on a pencil on the night stand. I knew what I was doing but wouldn't stop. Finally I went back to sleep. When I woke up the next morning a vague memory of chewing on a pencil came to me. I picked up the pencil, and my teeth marks were all over it! Scared the crap out of me knowing I could have done something really bad.

I had insomnia for years. All those racing thoughts in my head which kept me from going to sleep. I also had Restless Leg Syndrome pretty bad. It would hit a couple of times a week, or more. Ever since my doctor prescribed Carb-Levo, I fall asleep in 10 minutes, sometimes sooner. I've been taking it for about ten years now and can't live without it! I take it before bedtime, and I don't feel groggy if I need to go to the bathroom, or when I wake up the next morning.

We have separate bedrooms too. DH snores like crazy, and apparently I kick the you know what out of him in my sleep. I denied it until a few months ago I woke up after kicking the cat off the bed really hard. lol.

I love my girly room though. Apparently it's becoming more and more common for couples to have separate bedrooms.

Cindy, I love your story. :)

I'm not supposed to eat chocolate either KS, although it doesn't seem to affect me. I have interstitial cystitis, which is basically a chronically touchy bladder. I couldn't drink red wine because of chronic headaches, and now even white does it for me. One small glass is my max, so I do indulge every once and a while, or just get a sip of SO's, he's a real wino! So luckily there is still chocolate, although I was never a chocoholic. The hardest thing for me to give up is tea, I love, love, love tea. But wine, tea and diet pop/soda are the three things that irritate my bladder the most. Thankfully it isn't worse than that! I was supposed to give up all acid foods but found out that it's only certain acids. So for example, coffee does not bother me even though tea does. Tannic acids are apparently extra bad for me.

I love having my own bedroom. DH and I really need to sleep apart. Once I fall asleep I sleep like a rock but he snores loudly and he tosses and turns and would often get up and go out to the living room to watch tv. Now he can turn his tv on in his bedroom until he can sleep.