Is there any chance that you might be having a bout of diverticulitis? I am asking because my friend was first diagnosed with having gall stones by her primary care physician but it turned out to be diverticulitis when she saw the specialist. I hope you feel better soon.

I'm going for a screening colonoscopy soon, but this is up top, exactly the same pain as gall bladder...right side of lower rib cage and around to the back.

I've read it's not uncommon and most doctors will prescribe Omeprazole first. I also know drinking lots of water helps with the attacks. Sorry you're having this problem.

When I had my gall bladder surgery 12 yr ago, I was told that for a period of time I may have issues with fatty foods.. or even spicy foods.. or I may not. The period of time could be a few months or "forever". I have been very lucky since my gall bladder surgery-- the only thing I can't eat is bacon and I don't really care for it so it's not a big loss for me. Gall bladder disease runs in my family and no one else in my family has had any lasting issues. Unfortunately, two of my friends have had continued issues post surgery. One had surgery in November. I don't know what, if anything, she's narrowed it down to but she avoids eating in restaurants as a result. It has worked well for her but it does seem a rather limiting solution.

I have noticed that I seem to be more sensitive to wheat lately.. but I haven't associated it with gall bladder, in part because it's been so long since I had mine removed. I'd be interested to see the research but given what I understand of the gall bladder, I'd look to other sources first.

My reaction to bacon is pretty immediate.. that helped me isolate the source of the problem. I would look to what you ate immediately prior to the start of the attack. I don't have to have a plate of bacon to kick off a reaction-- as I said, I am not really a fan. Even a small amount in a salad or such can set me off... so don't discount something that is pretty minor in the ingredient list.

Hope you are feeling better and can figure out what's causing these recurring bouts!

Read up on and ask your doctor about SOD, which is Sphincter of Oddi Dysfunction.

Annie, you've never had a colonoscopy before? Glad you are getting that done. It's been over 20 years since I had my gallbladder out, but like Funky, apparently I have been one of the lucky ones. I had a few issues with some foods the first few weeks/months but since then have had no problems and can eat whatever. You can have stones even without the gallbladder, so good idea to get it checked.

Yeah, funkyart, both parents and all 4 grandparents had theirs out and I don't remember any of them having subsequent issues with eating. Unfortunately, none of them are around any more to ask.

No, tinam, I've had a colonoscopy before, but it's time again.

TRose, thanks, I remember from your other thread that that's what your doc said it was...I'm wondering if you noticed it more frequent with certain foods or not. That's the problem though, isn't it? I hate to "test" it as the results are so terribly painful. But I guess it's better to know than not.

This article seems to be pretty descriptive of the SOD...sounds like it's a diagnosis of exclusion. Definitely have to do more investigation with doctor.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/192761-overview

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3473449/pdf/bjr-83-351.pdf

"Post-cholecystectomy syndrome (PCS) may occur early in the post-operative period, because of incomplete surgery (retained calculi in the cystic duct remnant or in the common bile duct) or operative complications, such as bile duct injury and/or bile leakage. A later onset is commonly caused by inflammatory scarring strictures involving the sphincter of Oddi or the common bile duct, recurrent calculi or biliary dyskinesia."

I'm glad you brought this up. I went to the dr with severe pain in the ribcage area. She sent me for an ultrasound and sure enough I have gallstones and sludge in the gallbladder (gross). I have an appointment this Monday with a surgeon, I am hoping to get away with no surgery because my deductible is so high. If he tells me I need it right away then I will go the surgical route. I've gone from no medical bills to so many visits to so many Drs. that my head is spinning. It is too much to keep straight.

The bad pain that I had was in the beginning of March and it's taken this long to see the surgeon. I was in a lot of pain for about a week but now I feel great so the attack resolved on it's own.

Annie, I have been on a gluten free diet since last July and it has helped not only my weight but my digestive issues. It is very limiting though. Many of the foods I used to enjoy are now out. There is no pleasure at all from meal time anymore and honestly wish I didn't have to eat at all. I eat very small portions at a time throughout the day. I wouldn't give up gluten if you don't have to for health reasons because it is not fun at all.

Annie, stop the bile salts! Your body is still making them. All the gallbaldder did was keep some in storage. Never take bile salts unless your doctor tells you to, and it would be because of a problem you're having. Maybe bile sludge.

Holly-Kay should take bile salts. Some people take them when they are trying to prevent having surgery.

Go to the doctor and figure out what's going on.

Thanks, Oakley, I'm not taking them yet anyway. I did have sludge in my gall bladder, and now that it's out, I'm thinking it may be the sludge is in my liver or in the bile duct yet. The purpose behind the bile salts would be to help supplement the bile output during a meal if the liver isn't able to make up enough to digest the food at that time.

Holly-Kay, between the time I was diagnosed with gall stones and sludge and when I actually had the surgery, I went on a fat free diet...or as close to fat free as I could at the suggestion of the doctor: lean meats and fish, fruits, vegetables and low fat breads and dairy. I felt wonderful, lost weight and had no attacks. My energy level was very high.

I'm not sure how/why gluten would have any impact in this regard as it is a protein, not a fat....unless it's that eliminating the flour eliminates a lot of fat too as so many carb products are fat delivery mechanisms. The bile is used to digest fat in the food.

Low fat is what they would prescribe for someone with gallbladder problems, or stones. After being hospitalized after a gb attack, I was on liquids a few days, then a low fat diet. Sorry, for some reason when you said "screening colonoscopy", I was thinking of a first colonoscopy.

When you schedule your colonoscopy, describe your upper abdominal pain to your gastroenterologist. He/she may want to also do an upper endoscopy & take a look at your esophagus & stomach. The two procedures are frequently done at the same time. Your insurance should cover the additional procedure with your symptoms. It's likely GB related but why not have them take a look since you are going to be sedated for the colonoscopy.

Good idea, romy!

GF is recommending standard process product called A-F Betafood that is supposed to help thin the bile sludge. Any one have any familiarity with it? It's supposed to be made from red beet greens.

She's also recommending bile salts, but I'm not sure I need that. I have started using swedish bitters which is supposed to help stimulate the liver to produce bile.

I'm glad Annie. Let your doctor decide for you, because it may not be sludge.

Did I tell you I got an Incisional Hernia years after my gallbladder surgery? It was a laparascopic surgery and it happened under a tiny incision on my upper tummy. If you get one you'll notice it immediately. :)

Standard medical release forms all say that one of the outcomes of this surgery is continued pain and other symptoms.

Pain --> Gallstones or "sludge" seen on RUQ ultrasound ---> HIDA scan for blockage /decreased function or ERCP--> surgery. Unfortunately there are many alternate explanations of the pain and the mere presence of gall bladder problems doesn't necessarily mean the symptoms are caused by them. But it's a relatively inexpensive, low impact surgery that does often cure the symptoms so it's frequently tried first.

And, sometimes if your gall bladder wasn't working properly and your symptoms were caused by lack of function, removing it (necessary to prevent it becoming diseased and causing other problems like pancreatitis) leaves you with the exact same problem---it wasn't aiding your digestion before and certainly isnt once removed. Then lifestyle changes and/or OTC remedies can help alleviate the symptoms.

You are going about this the right way, Annie, and I am glad you're having a colonoscopy. It seems that everyone I know has lost their gallbladder, Oscar Wilde would probably say that's very careless :-)

Annie Deighnaugh -

eld6161 asked me to chime in on this thread and rhizo was kind enough to provide the thread link over at the Kitchen Table. I think it was because I'm gluten sensitive and have been on a gluten-free diet since 2013.

How long has it been since your surgery? Most people experience "phantom" pains after surgery, but there are so many potential post-removal issues, or something completely unrelated, but lots of great input by the other posters.

What I dealt with for 9-months after having my gallbladder removed (7/2014) was phantom pains and "dumping syndrome", and you may want to check that out as well. I have learned to avoid trigger foods, I don't drink liquids 30-minutes before and 30-minutes after a meal - which were the chief triggers of the dumping syndrome. Thick liquids like a malt/shake or smoothie can also cause a "dump". During a meal, I'll restrict my water intake to sips for a total of 1/4 cup (or less).

I have a long list of foods I can no longer consume due to the Fructose Malabsorption I now deal with after gallbladder surgery, so I really watch the high-fructose containing fruits, vegetables, and sweeteners I consume. Have you looked at a FODMAP, GAPS, or Specific Carbohydrate Diet?

I would also suggest reading "Digestive Health with REAL Food" by Aglaee Jacob, M.S., R.D., because I'm a firm believer that most diseases start in the gut, and that includes gallbladder and post-gallbladder issues.

I know it's not funny because I had it, but I had no idea it was called "Dumping Syndrome." Can't they name it something else? LOL. Mine lasted a couple of years but it finally went away. Before it went away on it's own, I'd take two Imodium 30 min. before a meal.

Thanks grainlady...I remember you posting about this before. Fortunately that's not my problem...just the "colic".

How ironic that I would come across this thread...I was going to ask about this myself today! I had my GB removed June 2013, no problems until about 3 months ago. It seriously felt like I still had a GB with stones, EXACTLY the same pain....radiating through the back, no relief unless I lay on my right side. I also have an upper abdomen hernia from the incision Oakley! Any way, my PCP changed my meds from Nexium to Omprezerole just about the same time this started (due to stupid ins co refusing to continue paying for Nexium) so I figured that was the problem and after a couple of really painful "bouts", she switched me to Pantoprozole. It has been about two weeks now & I don't have the "GB" pain but terrible diarreah!! UGH, so frustrated! I have been avoiding fatty foods but don't like the idea of removing dairy, I love me my milk!! But alas, I can't go on like this!

p.s. I also take Digestive Advantage every day...maybe I should stop that?

Saw doc today and they are setting up an ultrasound for me and drew some blood to see if they can see anything.

Always best to get the doctor to check it out.
I had my gallbladder out many years ago because I had huge stones and had tried passing a couple. Horrible pain. After removal I immediately began having terrible pain, cramps and diarrhea. I unfortunately had Bile Dumping syndrome. I don't wish it on my worst enemy. Truly dreadful condition. I could not eat with out being very near a bathroom because it would hit so hard and fast that I might not make it there. This for quite some time caused me to be home bound. I learned where every bathroom was in every store, restaurant, believe me. I learned to always have a bag packed with me just in case. I was put on Questran powder which helped a little. In my case it didn't matter at all what I ate, everything caused it. I still have bouts of it today, it's never ending. I still always make sure I don't eat with out having facilities near by. My husband knows if I say find a bathroom now it means right this second not a few miles down the road. I have medicine that helps control the horrible spasms and rolling cramps. Occasionally it triggers vomiting too. Oh joy!

I try to warn friends and family that are about to under go gallbladder surgery to be aware of this possibility so they aren't blindsided by it like I was. I thought I was dying the first time it hit me. And in several cases they have also developed Bile dumping syndrome. They were all thankful that I had warned them because they too thought they were dying. They were able to get the proper care because they were familiar with my situation. My nephew was one of them and unfortunately he has it about as bad as I do. I don't know if mine will ever completely go away, I doubt it will. I am not sure I would have had the surgery at the time if I knew I would have this condition from it. I think I would have waited until it was absolutely essential.
By the way the dumping refers to the sudden dumping of Bile into the system , not the other kind of dumping lol.

Lisa, you're the only person I know with the same kind of hernia! Mine is huge, about the size of an egg. Doctor said to leave it alone for now because it's common for them to come back after surgery. I have asthma and allergies so I cough a lot, so I'm always covering the bump with my hands with I cough. I have this fear it will explode. lol

Raven, could you have IBS? The strange thing when I had the syndrome...I cannot call it "dumping" or I'll crack up...lol, it only happened after lunch. I put up with it for several years until the doctor told me to take Imodium AD thirty minutes before I ate. It worked wonders, and thankfully it went away. I remember what it was like though and it limited me going out to eat during the day.

No it's definitely bile dumping syndrome. Apparently in some cases it's due to damage to certain nerves during the laparoscopic surgery. It rarely happened to patients who had the non laparoscopic surgical method. But that type is rarely done now because it is much longer recovery time.

I developed a hernia in the incision area in my navel. I will have it repaired some day but for now it's OK except when I have a bad cough.

Oakley - I have asthma and allergies so I cough a lot, so I'm always covering the bump with my hands with I cough. I have this fear it will explode. lol

Me too!!

Cool! Okay, can you stand up straight and see it bulge out from your shirt? I can! hee

Re the sphincter of oddi, apparently 1 in 5 have issues with this post gall bladder surgery, esp middle-aged women.

I came across this video showing how to massage the s. of o. as well as other organs in the area. Thought some might find it helpful.

Here I am a year and half later & guess what? I had stones in my bile duct, they were removed after I had a stint put in for 3 weeks back in June 2016. And would you believe I am getting those familiar pains again??!! I had bloodwork done last week & my liver & pancreatic enzymes are through the roof, AGAIN!!

What in the world is causing this? I am so frustrated!

I'm sorry you're going through all of this. I hope they find a good solution soon. That pain is no fun at all!