Hardwood flooring install a 48 day nightmare. Should we pay our bill?
We were having hardwoods installed in our living and dining rooms (wall recently taken down so now one big room). They were to match the existing hardwood floor in our kitchen. Flooring arrived on Jan. 21st and workers arrived on Jan. 25th to begin the installation. Within an hour (forgive me but my computer does not do commas anymore) the man in charge told me that the wood wasn't the same as the wood in the kitchen. They ordered red oak and it should have been white oak. They told me there would be a slight difference in color when they stained it so gave me an option to keep it or not. I have waited 15 years for this so I wanted it done correctly. They ordered the new wood and told me it would be 3 -4 weeks for it to be milled and shipped. That is 3-4 weeks without an oven or stove (we had taken our old one out and sold it because we wanted new and it had to be moved anyway as they were sanding and restaining our kitchen floor too so the rooms flowed).
So at this point we had subflooring in our foyer. living and dining rooms.
We lived for 48 days with an 11 foot long kitchen table. 8 chairs. our fridge. all of our livingroom furniture. a buffet. rolled up rugs. 2 sets of doors.
mirrors. artwork.lamps. dishes...all shoved into our family room. Not to mention that I tried to cook for a family of 5 on a 2 burner hot plate and a microwave.....
Finally 24 days later they began installing the new wood. Without making this post any longer than it already is I will just say it took 4 tries of sanding and staining and poly before they got the living room to look somewhat passable. I am not picky. They even agreed it kept looking bad. (One time they said they used different sand paper and shouldn't have. Another time they said the sander was acting up. Another time they blamed one of the workers....) It was not the fault of the wood as some areas looked great. Unfortunately the best part of the floor is in my foyer closet.
My floor has blotches. My floor is almost black at my front door and they sanded so much that the grooves are gone there as well. Sad when your mom comes over and says "well just put a rug there".
We paid $5000 down before they started. Our outstanding bill is $4900. It took them 48 days. I had to cancel 2 events that were scheduled at my house. I had to clean up the dust from 3 sanding jobs. I had to patch several holes in my walls. We ate out tons and spent a fortune on food.
Question? My husband doesn't plan on paying them a penny more. At this point I feel they are lucky we don't sue them. Your thoughts?? Pix is of our family room. This is where we ate. watched tv.... Only good thing was that my husband liked having the fridge so close to his spot on the couch!
Comments (13)
gregmills_gw
8 years agonuma1
8 years agoOur contract states "install an unfinished 3/4" x 3" white oak (select and better grade) with a micro-beveled edge. First photo is how nice it looks in our hall closet. Second is how dark it is at our front door. At the door it is almost black and the grooves have all been sanded down so it looks completely different than the rest of the floor.
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Need installer to finish my hardwood flooring installation
Comments (10)ricewO, I had found someone from Angie's list on July 4th that sounded great but he had to be booked in advance and could not buy the BR-111 product at the same great price as from TrueHardwoods.com so told me to buy it and call him and he would see when he had time. He wanted me to order one extra box but he said if I was going to be picky on boards, then two extra boxes. I had ordered 8% extra and he felt that was not enough (he was right I see now). When I called him to tell him I think I made a mistake with the order and I should have ordered 2 T-Moldings and 2 Reducers and not 3 Reducers and no T-Moldings, he told me I needed 4 Reducers and 1 T-Molding. He was too far from me to do a quick stop over here to measure again. My current installer before hiring him, came by and pulled up the carpet to test which molding he brought with was the right one and also bought me a white foam pad with a big board to stand on (pulled the rug and padding up so the wood and pad would be on the cement floor)to let me make a decision on if I liked the feeling of a glued down floor or a floating floor. That is when I decided that I did not want 3 extra boxes of wood like my neighbor who ordered a different product from TrueHardwoods.com so I went with my current installer and also my current was able to begin right away. BUT I see now that I was wrong and my current is not doing a good job and I am afraid for him to cut new molding to install since all his cut boards are poorly done with various size spaces next to my wall. Also the installation itself was done wrong and I had to call the manufacturer of the FloorMuffler with Ultra Seal and put them on Speaker phone since the current installer did not believe the instructions and was not using the ULTRAseal tape (he had it tucked under the pad!) at all and was not gluing the pieces together and was not putting the pad up against the wall a bit. The manufacturer said to insulate and protect from moisture he was doing it wrong and I was right. Then my current installer did it right in front of me and then when I left the room and came back I saw he was doing it wrong again! He installed damaged boards and some of the boards are not enough distance form each other with the seams. I am unhappy with his installation but very happy now with the beautiful Brazilian Cherry floors and so glad I went with the 5" wide boards since the grain is gorgeous and the coloring is now the orange reddish color I felt it should be when first installed despite not looking like that in the box. I really would like someone to install the last row of boards when the new box comes in and cut the new baseboard trim to install it so the cuts and piecing together can be professional. If I have no one else, I would have to have the current installer complete the installation of the wood with me there the whole time since I do not trust him anymore. I almost did not hire the current installer when he did not return my phone calls when I found the 47 foot crack in the cement floor but he arrived Thursday morning without return my phone calls the prior night or the prior days and I wanted the floor done. He also ripped out two side corner moldings near my tiles (my brother took the molding off the walls everywhere else and did a good job) and metal is showing and he cracked two tiles. He installed the two T-Moldings and you can see nail heads and he scratched the molding and a tiny crack now from putting the nail in the molding. Now I see why he wanted to reuse the old trim since I do not feel his carpenter skills are that good. He was referred by a client of mine that used to sell the current installer insurance before he retired from the insurance business. I had a painter come in today to give me an estimate on just painting the walls and not the trim. I have another painter coming by at 2 PM to give me an estimate also. Thank you ricewO for the suggestion of Angie's list. I may call back the other installer as well as all the messages I left last night on Angie's list's carpenters, flooring installers and painters. Thank you for your nice offer. I wish you lived near me....See MoreHardwood Floors installed 6 months ago are still cupped and squeak
Comments (18)If, your flooring is cupped. You need to get your basement RH level down. It needs to be lower than the level above. Usually between 30-35% RH. Otherwise, your subfloor will not dry out. If, the above level is around 35% or lower. Try increasing it to 40%. As jfcwood mentioned, the bottom of your floor boards has a higher moisture content causing the base of the floor boards to expand. In order to shrink it, the RH level needs to be lower along the base of the floor boards. Cool, wet air is a wet basement. Check sump pump wells, it can be holding water. Are you running a dehumidifier? Are you by the water? Is the cupping consistent throughout the home or is it isolated to a particular area? Are you using a diluted cleaner? Also, did the NWFA inspector take a wood moisture reading with a lignometer? The reading should be consistent throughout, cupped or not. Are you able to take a reading of the subfloor from underneath? If, finished is there a vent you can take a reading from? The reading should be within 3% of the sub-floor to be considered stable. If, it is then someone needs to be responsible for a tear out and redo. Who or what caused the moisture issue?...See MoreInstalling Hardwood and Engineering Hardwood
Comments (11)SJ McCarthy, our contract is stated we are responsible for the materials and we pay for the labor. Unfortunately we never met nor discuss with the owner but only discussed in details ( in the proposal) with the project manager who is the solely the carpenter.) We just found out there were a lot of the DETAILS from the proposal were not explained (per the PM,but who knows) in detail to the owner or almost like "bait and switch" - for example like item #2- he spent more time because the owner did not get him another helper to help him- I told him this should not be the customer's expenses-Anyway we are willing to pay for it. The owner was offering to renew and establish a new contract from the original contact ( we felt that he cherry picking the items from the proposal, we marked them up then again he decided not to included) for the unfinished works . Once he agreed in our 2nd meeting (another example: he agreed tiling our study room to be included from the original contact in our 1st meeting then when he write the REVISED CONTRACT- he wants to charge us ), but again we are facing the same old stories-he tried to change the wording. We were burned so many times and now we diligently review line by line knowing the owner's personality. He kept saying he lived by the contract-then I told him then he should honor the low estimated to install our engineering hardwood floor including removing the carpet-in the end he says he would honor but he did not including the cost in the new REVISED contract which we add into it - we are so tired with his games. So now we put a contingency - once we agree with the new contract, no more additional expenses from the previous work was done- and we do agree that we need to be notified first and need both signatures for additional expenses from the new contract. and no more point finger of "not included" since we have discussed in detailed and are in the contract. The new addition has a hardwood floor installed - with Dri-core. Once hardwood floor was installed- they are some areas squeak- we were told by PM -put a marked up then he would fasten without explaining to us-these would be additional ridiculous charges (PM told the owner, too-we told PM that they should explain it to us- ) Regarding the installing the engineering hardwood floor is for our existing rooms(concrete slabs that has plywood already)- we are told just to put a vapour barrier. Is it possible to let me know what brands for the glues have to be moisture resistant ($2/sf) or moisture PROOF ($3/sf).? The manufacture instruction suggests to use Franklin Tongue and Groove adhesive (cross linking polyaliphactic emulsion glue) www.titebond.com -any suggestions? This Applachian engineering hardwood floor - FLOATING only needs GLUE between the wood (tongue and groove per the manufacture manual ) then would be FLOAT - this is not to be GLUE DOWN on our concrete floor (could be glue down if necessary but not in our case). Here is the website- on PAGE 9 http://www.appalachianflooring.com/uploads/general/documents/engineered-installation-guide.pdf We trust the PM and we pay for it- we just want to move on and complete the project-It has been almost 10 months. We have to do what we have to do to protect ourselves now- The owner refuses to install our towel bar in our new shower without charging us, and we told him we will take care them by ourselves. I will update this post and hoping for a better solution. Thank you...See MoreBad Hardwood floor installation
Comments (20)@smoloci - Actually Canada has adopted NWFA standards (this is common for Canada...we borrow someone else's guidelines so that we can save money on writing it out ourselves...it's what we do:-) The Strand Bamboo (it is not hardwood) is a tricky duck. It is tricky. And then it is tricky. And then it gets tricky. And just for fun it is SUPER tricky. And then there are the LIVING conditions that you MUST maintain to keep bamboo happy - which is tricky. Anyhoo...This isn't something a wood flooring retailer would be happy to post on their website. Have you reached out to the MANAGER? How long was the bamboo allowed to ACCLIMATE in your home? What MONTH was this installed? What was the indoor humidity of the home at the time? What is it now? What type of bamboo is it? Solid strand? Engineered (over wood board)? Laminated over fibreboard? And how long was the PLYWOOD allowed to acclimate in your home? Any MOISTURE readings of ANYTHING? Traditionally you will have 1 year labour warranty. If any of the "Best Practices" were "skipped" (one day for everything is suspicious but not unheard of), then you have a BIG stick in your hand that you can use to prompt a decent 'fix'. The Canadian Wood Flooring Association has Provincial branches (eg. BC Wood Flooring Association) that come with HAND BOOKS (ahem...I read that puppy over a summer - the book is 15 POUNDS). Everything discussed in the USA's National Wood Flooring Association hand book is found in the PROVINCIAL hand books. Go ahead and look up the company's website...see if they PROMINENTLY display the logo....See Moregregmills_gw
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