Our split-foyer face lift: second guessing dormer and lack of portico
Hi everyone!
This thread has two purposes:
1) To show what can be done to a split-foyer home to improve the exterior curb appeal. Below you will see a before and after photo of the dramatic changes we made to our split foyer home. We added an addition to the house and redid the exterior. The back half of the house is now a two story. We are not at all done inside the house so the photos will only relate to the outside today.
2)To discuss a few last decisions we need to make (or past decisions we have made and have second guesses about).
First the before and after:
Before:
After:
Please note, we have photo shopped in the railings and two coach lights.
Our questions:
a) Is it still possible at some point to build a portico in front of the front door? There is some shelter under the front door, but I wondered if the front door would be less lost if there was a portico. Just not sure if that would be too much. Please note any portico would have to accommodate the stairs, and 8 foot door and transom, and the man door (which we use all the time as mudroom is on basement level).
b)Did we get the shape of the dormer wrong? Is there just two many gables. Should we have done a shed dormer? Obviously, with so much to finish inside, we would not do anything to the dormer for quite some time. However, I would like to know so we can plan for a change there if necessary, once we recover financially from all these changes.
C) Finally, and perhaps the easiest question: What style of coach lights whould we buy for this home. There will be 5 coach lights on the front and there is spots for 4 on the back. What sizes of coach lights would you suggest as well. Our efforts to try different finishes, have led us to believe that oil rubbed bronze would look the best due to the dark door and oil rubbed bronze door hardware.
Here is the back of the house where the home is now a two story.
I would love your suggestions to my questions above.
Carol
Comments (30)
8 years ago
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Looking for suggestions for our floor plan
Comments (36)Yan, ok, I'm back, with more information than you probably want to think about! Some of this is in addition to my other post, some is in place of it. Since you seem open to lots of ideas, I'm going to suggest many things since several aspects of your plan are similar to ours (although our lot is wide, and your east side is our front, with our entrance where your stair landing is). Lots of detail, but you can obviously choose to ignore it all if it doesn't suit how you live. Energy efficiency-- 1--You have 12" energy heel trusses, nice deep roof overhangs, and 2x6 exterior walls. You might want to consider doing the garage walls in 2x6s also. We did a thicker (ICF) wall for our house and garage here in Michigan, and even when the temperature outside was zero, our unheated garage never got below 50! The 2x6s won't do that well, but every little bit helps. 2--Regarding fireplaces, the most energy efficient place to put it would be between two interior walls. We put a 2-sided Heat N Glo between our living room and dining room and have really enjoyed it from both sides. (I'd put yours in place of the west half-wall--you did say that you think of it as a hearth room!--and shorten or eliminate the other short wall). The other night when the power was off for 5 hours, we used some sort of built in override system and were able to heat both rooms with the fireplace, although we were not able to adjust its heat as we can when there is electricity. 3--An HRV (or maybe ERV; not sure which in Wisconsin) should distribute the heat from whatever sun comes in your west and south windows. Our library has exterior walls on the SE and SW, and our living room's walls are SW and NW. I love the sun coming in in the winter, and both rooms are always comfortable. Now if I'm actually sitting where the sun is, it is warmer, but I designed both rooms to have walls blocking part of the sun so I'd have places to sit and enjoy the rooms. It really helps to plan your furniture arrangements as you decide where windows and doors go. 4--Suntunnels (Solatubes, etc.) are much better for energy efficiency than skylights. We used Suntunnels by Velux; the rigid ones give more light than the flexible ones, and the TGR type looks better on the roof if it matters to you. We put one in the stairwell, one in the 2nd floor bathroom which has no windows, and two in the kitchen, since it has a 10'x20' porch across the front of it that blocks the light. I LOVE the light they bring in, and so does everyone who sees them. DH would rather not have ANY holes in the roof, but I insisted on these because light is so important! Symmetry (or, when do you give up form for function?)-- 1--A lot of architects and homeowners like symmetry. By putting the fireplace where I did, I removed the symmetry from 2 rooms. Since you have a Craftsman style house, you can have a more informal style without symmetry if you choose as long as there is balance. 2--If the exterior door now goes out from what is now apparently the screened porch, I would change the symmetry of the French doors, since it makes it difficult to place furniture. If you want to keep the symmetry, you could put two 6-foot sets of French doors and have the two doors in the middle fixed, and the two end ones open. Then you could put a love seat in front of the fixed parts. Or you could just have one door operable at one end. Laundry/powder/mud/pantry/office suggestions-- 1--Move the pantry to the powder room location. Move the refrigerator to the west so there is room to cut a door through from the kitchen to the new pantry; make it a pocket door. Move the desk functions into the pantry under the window or into the new office, since it would just probably pile up with stuff where it was. Cut a counter- height 20"w x 36"h pass thru in the pantry wall on the mudroom side instead of a door. Extend the left wall of the new pantry to the mudroom wall, and move the laundry door onto the mudroom wall. Put a shallow cleaning closet on the laundry wall facing the kitchen wall. Move the cubbies to the back of the kitchen wall. Change the mudroom/garage door so it opens to the right. 2--Move the 12'7" (new) office wall west 1'. Move the toilet and wash basin to the garage wall where the closet was, and make the powder room 5'x5' with the door on the south wall, opening into the powder room onto the back of the office wall. Move the closet opposite the powder room wall that has the door in it, so that the back of the closet is on the dining room wall. Have the door to the new office be between the closet and the powder room, and wall off the door into the dining room, if you want the office private from the rest of the house. 3--Kitchen--Are you having a cooktop and separate oven, or will there be a range? Where will the microwave be? Some things to consider when planting trees as a screen, especially since you are so close to your neighbors-- 1--How big will the trees get? The sizes listed by nurseries are usually the height and width after TEN YEARS, and they don't stop growing! They will get much larger than you expect. 2--The roots will get at least as wide as the tree canopy, so they will extend into any cracks that might occur at any time in your basement wall, and they will extend onto your neighbor's property where they may decide to plant something. 3--The evergreens will make the rooms darker as they grow larger and block more of the sun. 4--Most evergreens need full sun to look good. Yews will be about your only choice if there's a house on the east or west side blocking the sun and you only get full sun for 6-8 hours. I would definitely keep the windows in the master walk-in closet. Before we built our house, I visited LOTS of builders' homes in the Detroit 3-county area Parade of Homes, etc. I always disliked the larger WIC closets without a window, and liked the ones having a small window. Ours is 28" w x 42"h and 4' above the floor (9' ceiling). It's opposite the closet door as I walk in, and I LOVE not having to turn on the light during the day, seeing the sky and trees, having the light spill into the bathroom and bedroom, but still having privacy. A 4 in 12 slope for the roof seems shallow for Wisconsin since you get more snow than we do. My draftsman said the least he'd recommend was 6/12. Maybe it doesn't matter if the roof is in smaller sections, and their are no large trees around for leaves to collect. I designed our house from scratch, and had no previous experience. I bought and looked at lots of books, but two that I kept finding myself going back to for major concepts and practical applications were Patterns of Home: The Ten Essentials of Enduring Design by Max Jacobson, and Not So Big Solutions by Sarah Susanka. These might be helpful to you at this stage. IMO, your architect has done a very good job with your very limiting factors. One thing I found while designing our house was that every time I moved a wall even a couple of inches, it could have a huge impact on everything around it, which then had to be changed. I used a 3D Home Architect program. I assume from your print, that your architect can show you the 3-dimensional views of each room? If he hasn't, see if he can show you each room from the various entry points, so you can decide if that's how you want it. Also, there are online programs that will let you draw your plan and place your furniture. I don't know what they are, but maybe someone else can give you a link. Then you can see if the room sizes are ok, what you will be seeing when you are sitting down, etc. Anne Here is a link that might be useful: TGR style SunTunnels...See MoreNeed help with Split level
Comments (58)I would definitely consider taking the space from the garage or basement (perhaps where oil tank sits currently) to be able to make the garage connected to the house. Your house is very different if you need 5-6 steps to go from garage to lower level. You might also want to consider a ramp if you have room. Think of what a pain it will be to take the trash to the garage. Or even worse, you arrive home in the car, park it in the garage and then have to go outside again to enter the front door. For me, those tiny little foyers in split entries are completely useless if you have more than 2 people living in the home. Just think of all the sports equipment, knapsacks, boots, coats etc your children will want to bring into and out of the home. Find some way to make the garage door connect to the basement and even try to add a man door so your children can go through the garage without opening one of the big doors. Then plan on a very decent sized mudroom in the basement. My kids no longer are allowed to use the front door. They all come in the garage man door, walk on one side of the garage (there is a pathway away from cars) and enter the home. Upon entering there is a large space used as mudroom (not finished yet, but still functional). I will never go back to having the family arrive into the tiny entry. In the old house, you usually couldn't open the door without pushing back packs out of the way. Carol...See MoreOur split-foyer face lift: ?s on dormer, portico and lights Xpost
Comments (23)Thank you lizbeth and k9arlene for your thoughts. @lizbeth: I appreciate your kind words on the house. Thanks for your vote on the railings, and for helping me once again on my home. I see that the darker stair railings do draw your eye to the door more. DH has mocked it up as a brown to match the door. In real life, we won't likely get a brown that matches the door as well as the mock-up shows. The metal railings only come in so many colours. The door is a stained door, and the man door is painted metal. We can paint the man door brown, but it won't look the same as the main door. I will ask DH to mock-up the darker door to see. As per having the picket railings on both sides of the steps, I don't believe there is a safety issue (please let me know if I am missing the safety concerns). There is a full wall on the left side (left as you up steps) so the pickets are not needed for safety. However, they may look better if the two sides are symmetrical. @k9arlene: Thanks for your question. If we did a different kind of deck railing it would block the gable window and gable door. The glass railings, while not allowing privacy as you stated, prevent the house behind from being screened. Our build has been long. At one point, we had a gable roof on the garage (not the flat roof that we have now). Sadly, we had to tear down the newly framed gable roof as it blocked the window/door behind and did not look right (too tall of a garage in your face). Carol...See MoreSpecific questions about our architect's preliminary designs
Comments (46)Am I seeing correctly that the half bath opens directly onto the living/dining area? Agree. This is a complete no-no. I also don't understand why you'd have two half-baths. The master shower looks tiny. 3x3? You are not going to enjoy it. Agree. 3x3 is do-able, but it's a bit summer-campy. I'd give up quite a few other things in order to have a more comfortable shower. The kitchen does look "off". The kitchen is "off" because it's broken up into fragments, meaning you'd have to walk from section to section to cook a meal. The space is here ... but the kitchen needs a complete re-do. Nice pantry though. You want the southern exposure for your bedroom, right? I'd rather have the prized southern exposure for my great room -- the room where I spend most of my waking hours. In the laundry room, well, just put the machines along the outside wall and the sink on the inside wall. No, don't vent into the garage, you will have encrusted lint and moisture all over the cars, and everything else. Trust me. Experience. You could easily run a long dryer vent along the length of the garage ... but why bother /why make it more difficult to clean your dryer vent, when you could easily move the washer/dryer to the other side? General thoughts on the plan: - I like this style of house very much, but I do agree with the poster who says that proportion is key. - Imagine yourself bringing large furniture into the master bedroom. How are you going to make the turn from that small hallway? - The master bath could be so much better. It's a large room, but everything's kind of "strung out" with a bunch of empty space in the middle of the room. - If the great room were JUST a living room -- not a living plus dining room -- it'd be a nice size. But it isn't nearly big enough to house both. - I love that you have a broom closet. One of the things I anticipate with the most joy for our new house is a cleaning closet ... where I can keep all my cleaning goods in one place. Don't neglect to include an outlet in this room ... you're likely to want to keep a hand-held vac and/or a stick vac plugged in here. - You've included three eating areas ... all within a few feet of one another. Does this fit with your lifestyle? How often will you use the big dining room table? Where would your family of four eat dinner most evenings? - The whole mudroom /half-bath area seems over-done /overly complicated. So many doors inside -- more than are needed for a mudroom, and they're going to be in the way ... I also don't care for two entrance doors on the front of the house. - I do not care for the idea of a full bath near the mudroom (note that I grew up on a farm and own a working farm today -- I have never once wanted to come in and take a shower by the back door). Think it through: it's more trouble than it's worth: It's another shower to keep stocked with towels and toiletries ... and after you've showered, you're across the whole house from your closet /clean clothes. Two better options: 1) Put a foot bath outside the entry so you can take off your muddy shoes /come in with clean feet and walk to the bathroom in your bedroom. 2) Place the master bedroom near an entryway so you can go straight into your own bathroom, where you have all your stuff at the ready. Design the master suite so that you don't have to walk through the bedroom and the closet area to reach the shower....See MoreRelated Professionals
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- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
Thanks for taking a look JDS!
Here is the front (north) and one side elevation (west). If you click on them they are much larger. If you need the back and east side let me know, I will convert them later in the day or tonight. You will note that we put in an 8 front door with transom above, but the architect showed it as a standard height door with very tall transom.
Carol
8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
- 8 years ago
One decision that we still need to make is whether to have the front railings on the steps the same finish as the glass railings (grey finish to match window trim) or to make the stair railings a darker brown finish. Perhaps a darker finish on the hand rails might speak to the door more and contrast more with the stone steps?
Here is a mock-up of what it would look with grey upper deck railings and brown hand rails over steps. Please vote whether you like it better both grey as per original picture in opening post, or one below. Note, brown railings on the upper deck don't look nearly as nice as the grey, so we want grey for the glass railngs.
- 8 years ago
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8 years ago- 8 years ago
Thought I would post a picture of a mock-up showing both upper and lower railings in a dark brown (one of the options we ruled out). I imagine you will agree that the upper deck looks better with the grey railings vs the dark brown posted below. Do vote on whether you like either 1)Both upper deck and hand raillngs in grey (as per the second photo posted in the opening post) or 2)Upper deck in grey with darker brown for the steps (as per Wed 9:00 a.m. photo).
Thanks for voting.
- 8 years ago
Thanks Jack for your ideas and kind words. I see what you mean about the brick separating the bottom half of the house from the top. It might have looked better if the brick and siding were closer in colour. As it is the mortar matches the siding, but that is it. However, the brick is brand new so we would not paint it at this point.
The door is a stained mahogany colour (dark brown with red undertones). Currently the trim around the door is real mahogany wood and the door itself was a well done fiberglass door with decorative glass. I do agree the contrast on the windows (white windows and grey trim) is missing in the door. But I do love the door! Here is the door a bit closer up. There is some lumber behind the door that is required until we get the hand railings installed. There is also a paper curtain over the transom window that is temporary.
8 years ago- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
- 8 years ago
- 8 years ago
JDS, here is a Sketch-up model of the home without cladding. I might be able to get a family member to add a portico to this? The door is not accurate (ours is 8 foot) and there is a decorative vent over the windows on the gable that is not accurate. Not sure if we add a portico to this basic model if that would help. Is that what you had in mind for a 3D model, JDS?
Carol
- 8 years ago
8 years ago- 8 years ago
Thanks jlhug for your good thoughts on the door, and kind words on the house project. I am struggling with changing the door because in real life it is quite gorgeous as is. It is a stained door, not painted. I believe to paint it now (say a lighter colour) might be challenging (paint over stain?). However, the darkness of the door may be making it receed as you and others have mentioned. To combat the dark door, we have roughed in for lots of lights at the door landing area (two coach lights on either side of door and two can lights over head the door as well as other can lights and coach lights nearby). The garage blocks the door as well, depending on the angle you are facing (esp a problem if you are on the driveway).
JDS: What we have it seems is jpeg images of the house that my BIL did for us. My DH is calling him to see if he can send us the Sketch up files. I did find an image that was more uptodate than what I posted earlier, and I have reposted it below. If we do get the Sketch up files sent to us, how do I send them to you? I have no ideas how to send files or even photos on the Houzz message board. I can send you my email on the message board and then if you email me, I can reply with the files. Does that work?
Carol
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- 8 years ago
- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
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I couldn't find a solution that I though worked well but here is one I tried.
- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
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- 8 years agolast modified: 8 years ago
I found an image of a steel and glass portico. Is this similar to what you had in mind, JDS?
Forest House - Exterior features · More InfoI imagine we need to tie in the look of the step railings (and likely deck railing) with the portico. Looks like we should not proceed with step railings (and possibly deck raiilings) until we get a handle on the possibilities for a portico or not.
Any thoughts JDS on appropriate railings? We had assumed picket, but I am now not sure that would look good with the glass deck railings and a possible glass/steel portico.
Thanks,
Carol
- 8 years ago
- 8 years ago
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