Is this normal--Dumb cane question
cityplants
8 years ago
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zzackey
8 years agoMentha (East TN, Zone 6B-7A)
8 years agoRelated Discussions
Question About Shortening Canes of Bare Root Roses
Comments (8)It's been a very long time since I've read a "body bag" on a rose, but they used to have "mounding" instructions printed directly on them. In "the good, old days" nurseries used to give cardboard "rose sleeves" away with the bare roots to place around them when planted, for you to fill with dirt as the instructions above state. You watered directly into the top of the cone or sleeve to keep that soil and that under the rose damp. Maintaining the whole plant in a cool, damp, dark state encourages it to absorb water, prevents it from drying out until it forms sufficient new roots to take up enough water to grow, encourages it to form those roots instead of being stimulated to develop leaves and new canes. As many of us have seen from bare roots as well as cuttings, too much light and heat stimulates them to develop foliage, try to grow new canes and even flower using the resources stored in the wood before any roots are formed. I've had both push flowers and leaves then totally collapse because there was no root system under the plant to support it. It's the same issue seen with wrapping cuttings. If it's too warm, they won't root, but will try to push new growth from the growth buds, resulting in failure. As new growth develops, you slowly remove the soil in the sleeve to expose increasingly greater amounts of the plant until it is gradually hardened off, used to the normal garden conditions. This can be wonderfully accomplished during a longer period of rainy weather, just as transplanting and setting out newly rooted plants can be. The cooler, more over cast, more humid conditions are perfect for all of these projects. Trevor Griffiths wrote in one of his great books, a customer brought him a dried out, "dead" bare root he'd purchased from him demanding a refund. Mr. Griffiths buried the plant in damp soil, then planted it in a bag of soil where it flourished, grew and flowered as expected. He wrote that was the plant he frequently took to lectures and presentations to rose groups to illustrate how difficult it is to kill a rose as long as you know what you're doing. I purchased heavy gauge plastic rose sleeves from Gurney Seed back in the early to mid 80s which I used for over fifteen years before they finally wore out. I then began making them from cardboard boxes, even many sheets of newspaper, both of which worked perfectly. Taking fifteen or more full sheets of newspaper laid out flat, then folding them in half length wise to make a thick layer, I could take them to the can I'd planted, insert them into the rim of the can and determine how large it needed to be to prevent the water and soil from washing from underneath them and hold the soil in place. I'd then staple them closed to form the sleeve. I planted the rose in the can, but didn't finish filling it to leave a large area of the interior can sides to securely hold the sleeves in place. Once inserted over the plant, I finished filling the sleeves with soil, watering them to settle it in until the sleeve was mostly filled, leaving enough room to water them well without spilling over the sides. Many sheets of newspaper in a thick layer, rolled in a cylinder like that and supported by several inches of the can sides will hold water and soil in place well until new growth is seen. I only left the top few inches of the canes protruding from the soil so the majority of the plant was kept buried in the damp potting soil. As new growth pushed, I removed an inch or two of soil a week until there was enough taken out to permit the sleeve to be removed and the remaining soil to stay in the pot, filling it to the planting depth I wanted in the first place. By then, the cardboard or paper was pretty much ready for removal and could then be disposed of either in recycling or the compost pile. You can save many dried out bare roots simply by "heeling them in", burying them in damp soil, for a few weeks to plump them back up. This shouldn't be done in heavy, dense clay as you do need air circulation around the plant to prevent it from rotting or developing canker. A trench dug deep enough to bury the entire plants, leaving a few inches of soil to cover them fully, should be sufficient. The soil should be of a type you would want for planting, which drains well, yet is moisture retentive. Any good potting soil would be perfect. If you lay lengths of rope perpendicularly across the trenches at the top, middle and bottoms of where the plants are to be buried, then lay the plants down across the ropes, keeping them under the plants, you can tie the ends loosely and fill the trench, leaving the ends out of the rope out of the ground so you know exactly where the plants are. The protruding ends of the ropes help keep the plants together in a bundle, assisting you in finding and removing them. A couple of weeks in that cool, damp, dark environment will frequently rehydrate up to pretty severely dehydrated bare roots. I wouldn't suggest it as the usual procedure, but for extreme cases, it can work wonders. The trenching and ropes have been used for many years to overwinter tender types in harsher climates as well as to hold early arrivals which have been received before it was safe to plant them. Now, suddenly, to many of us, it's new information. There really is nothing new under the sun, except the plumbing Kim...See Morewhen 2 canes don't separate question
Comments (7)A few addenda: Some fasciation is caused by organisms called phytoplasmas; if a rose had multiple fasciated canes, there are probably scientists who would like to test which class of phytoplasmas it belongs to. And about the splitting of a cane: that would be a total disaster for the reasons mentioned elsewhere. Where the canes are joined, they are pith to pith with no meristemic tissue. You might get lucky and get a callus along the cut, but the pith would still be exposed and that would allow fungi, etc. into the center of the rose. Cutting would also weaken the two canes that grew up dependent on each other for some support, although not for nutrients. This fall, if you see Cock'sComb growing,take a close look. It's the big 'flower' that's so good as a dried flower because in it, fasciation is passed along in seeds. There are unfasciated related plants in the wild that are just a small tuft of 'bloom'....See MoreCane Borers (was Cane Borders)
Comments (11)hello Michael: The Ceratina Bee females WILL continue to tunnel into the plant to accommodate multiple rearing cells. They don't stop at just one cell. The general range is two to twelve cells, although many more than that have been observed. At a minimum size of 3 cm. per cell, twelve cells means the females will have excavated well over a foot into the plant. I'm not saying they will go that deep all the time on every rose they nest in, but as you have already discovered, they may certainly go more than just an inch or so down the cane. Please check out the article I provided and the references there. I'm glad that you don't see much Ceratina bee nesting where you are. Baldo lives in California where these bees are also apparently uncommon. However, Ceratina Bees are quite common around here, and they will nest in rose canes if one doesn't seal the cuts. To speak generally, if you don't get the bees where you are, you don't have to seal the cuts. If they are present in your area, it's a very easy preventative. Actually, garden roses aren't even their preferred nesting plants. They much prefer native species - roses and otherwise. So it doesn't take much to convince them to move on and look for better sites elsewhere.- just a blob of glue that disappears in a short time. And Susan - No these aren't leafcutter bees. In fact, they are so tiny that you might not even recognize them as bees at all. To the naked eye. they do look more like gnats They are considered beneficial pollinators, however, which is why I don't recommend insecticides. This post was edited by nickl on Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 13:19...See MoreMass cane question
Comments (3)Dracaena fragrans massangeana has a VERY aromatic flower. I'm kind of surprised it hasn't flowered sometime in the 10 years you've had it. Yes the tip that produces the flower will die off after the process. Just that single tip not the whole plant. That's why you're seeing the decline. Most of the canes have multiple tips/heads. Hope this helps....See MoreTiffany, purpleinopp Z8b Opp, AL
8 years agocityplants
8 years agoMentha (East TN, Zone 6B-7A)
8 years agoaruzinsky
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoaruzinsky
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agocityplants
8 years agoaruzinsky
8 years ago
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tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a)