As I said in my previous post, the Bluestar wall oven is a very new product with limited sales. The current wall oven is maybe a year old at this point. The original poster wants to know about French door wall ovens. There are reviews for the wall oven on GW. The more recent reviews seem to be positive.

My Bluestar Rangetop is a thing of beauty and I am an extremely satisfied customer. My opinion only, but I think Bluestar is making good products. I do think they went through a period of time where they were growing and had some challenges to overcome. Their recent reviews are much better than reviews 5 years ago.

I think BS service, has improved relatively speaking, more recently. Local service would just depend on who you draw. I mentioned it too as with the American just to mention other possibilities. I would not pick the BS oven as it is now but some people love them. For the OP, the preheat is probably too long but this is most likely due to the bigger size and the fact that you have to heat the stone. I don't like that it is so hot that you can't put food in while preheating. The OP would most likely not like the restart thing either.

I do think it has potential if you could change the following.

Make the baking stone optional. I would like to have an open element on the bottom sometimes.

Put the fan on a switch that would turn from 0-100. :-)

Get rid of the restart issue. People preheat the oven with the intention of using it. This would be a real source of irritation for me.

Best? A commercial oven from the likes of Blodgett will blow the doors off any of these home appliances from a functional perspective. Any of the home ovens I've seen (ours is a Capital Culinarian, have used Wolf, Meile and longer ago a Viking) pale in comparison to the real thing in terms of capacity, evenness, and effectiveness of steam injection. There will be a tradeoff in more challenging installation requirements, noise, and reduced flexibility of design (even the single stack ones are relatively large), though not as difficult as installing a true commercial range.

With the Bluestar, the restart would be a complete deal-killer. I'd probably forget to hit the button again about the half time.

If you have a large oven -- either a 30" wall oven or an even larger oven in a range -- then don't carp about preheat times. Expect 30 minutes minimum if you want a properly heated oven. Don't complain that the dinger that goes off after 12 minutes isn't accurate. Just accept that a large oven will pretty much take 30 minutes to properly and fully preheat.

If preheat is an issue then there are ovens, like mine, that have cold-oven-start settings which are available for functions like roasting. F.ex. I am able to start my turkey or anything I want to roast in a cold oven. The way it works there is no additional roasting time because the top element is used along with the bottom one.

The other aspect is the fan. If the oven is hot the fan will run. Sometimes that's for a long time. You can leave the oven open for a while to reduce the length of time the fan runs. But the fan is a fact of life with most ovens today.

These are not easy decisions. And reactions to various features as well as each person's priorities for the reno, the budget and cooking vary widely. I agree with @meyerk9 -- get the oven that works for you.

However, I would be very careful taking the word of any sales person who may be ok and steer you right but still has the conflict of profiting from the sale. Read everything possible on each product. It takes a huge amount of time and does become overwhelming and confusing.

But forums like this are places to clarify your thinking. The mistakes are made when they are used to shortcut the decision making. After a while we all learn to read through reviews and judge which ring true, which are complaints, which are hype or all-out phony. There is plenty of all of that.

Buyers often get hooked by features and the promise of the appliance and it's easy to lose sight of what happens after it's installed and you are forced to live with your decision. Recently there was a poster here who removed an oven that's pretty much considered best of the best to put in a French door oven that's considerably down the line. The new oven didn't perform well and then there was a complaint. Surprise was expressed at the swap out but the poster was determined and got what he/she wanted. But that included performance issues because the decision wasn't thoroughly researched.

It's a pain. A big one. But when a poster just mentions that there's a stone in the bottom of an oven that cannot be removed that can become a big deal when you're innocently baking sweet potatoes and the sugar drips out of the foil, or you forget to put a pie on a baking sheet and the sugar bubbles over onto the stone.

It's just not obvious without the research. And it can cause someone to live with an expensive mistake for some time. Or get exactly the oven that's right for them.

Speaking of commercial ovens, I am looking at these tabletop ones in a half sheet size. There was a lady over on fresh loaf that loved hers and it can go outside in the summer.

https://www.katom.com/cat/cadco-convection-combi-ovens.html

edit

They make a combi oven too.

http://www.cadco-ltd.com/Combi_LineChef_Resume_05_-.pdf

FWIW, I completely disagree about avoiding using the self-clean function. I haven't cleaned an oven any other way in 30 years (KitchenAid, KitchenAid, GE, Fagor).

Well, I've fried a mother board using the self-clean function. In my comment, I am referring to wall ovens, single and double, that are installed in cabinetry.

There are many stories at GW about wall ovens dying after a self-clean cycle. Self-clean uses enormous amounts of heat. Many ovens have electronic, wiring and connectors that will literally melt when exposed to oven cleaning heat due to a lack of ventilation around the cavity. While stoves may or may not have this problem, it's a widespread problem in wall ovens.

That doesn't mean give up your wall oven. It means, don't use the self-clean cycle if you have a wall oven.

There are lots of anecdotes about fried mother boards - I don't deny that. But there are many many more ovens out there where the self-clean function works just as its supposed to. Every one of my ovens has been a single wall oven. It's a risk I've always been willing to take because cleaning the oven is not a chore I'm willing to do. I just think a statement like "do not use the self-clean function because it will fry the electronics" is hyperbolic.

It wasn't hyperbolic when I had to write that check for $800 for a new motherboard. If I fry it again, there are none available. That means it's a new oven or I have to have the current one rebuilt. I'd rather live with a dirty oven or clean it myself.

Kim Laden, I am curious about what you decided. I have been 'starting' my remodel for many months now, after waiting years to save the money. I have a 1990 hated GE/mw combo unit where the MW board hasn't worked for 10 years, thus all I can do is bake and broil. Didn't replace with another identical item (only thing that fit) so waited it out. When I first 'planned' to remodel I 'knew' I wanted the double convection KA based on a trusted salesman's recommendation. That product has changed. Twice. Searching for reviews is a waste when it comes to double ovens. (we are avid review readers). The more I read, the more I believe nothing is worth the money. Higher ends don't seem to be any better on reviews. Sales folks keep telling me to get Dacor (I love my current Dacor cooktop). Reviews and the extra high price for a double convection have me thinking 'why spend double to have something with no better reviews?". I am totally baffled. All the customer service complaints (CS is important to me), repair issues, cost....what to do? The Dacor has a special 3 year rather than 1 year warranty. Worth considering. The best advice I have seen so far is to buy the extended warranty no matter what. I have never done that before. I can't stand the thought of buying something I won't be happy with or will need repair. If they all do, why buy high end? So.....that said, are you still looking or did you decide? Are you happy with it?

Kim Ladin Please share what you decided on. What is your feedback? Thanks so much!

"Sales folks keep telling me to get Dacor "

I think the commissions must be higher on those. If you go that route, I would not buy one with a "discovery" controller.

Wekick,

Why not Discovery? I am looking at Renaissance, as it is the one with Double convection. I think I am going to make a drive to the official showroom. The Dacor (edited from KA) prices are all 'set' so no shopping around...

Hi guys,

Sorry for the slightly delayed response on this. I'm having some troubles with Houzz notifications.

We haven't actually begun our remodel yet, so I don't have much to report.

I have decided to go with KitchenAid double convection ovens, despite seeing plenty of bad reviews. The reasons are somewhat idiosyncratic, but it basically came down to :

1) Realizing my budget limitations wouldn't let me spend $8,000+ on my ovens.

2) exactly what you said, Rick -- it seems like even the very high-end ovens have problems, so it's a crap shoot to some degree. I feel better spending less money if I might be disappointed in the end.

3) The ovens will be on the same wall as my fridge, which will be Kitchenaid. I don't insist on having all the appliances matchy-matchy, but since they're so close together I figured it wouldn't hurt to have the same styling.

4) I like the way the controls are laid out on the Kitchenaid, and this has always been a big issue for me. Too many of the high-end ovens have super-complicated controls that would drive me crazy (I'm a user interface designer by trade and I think the new UIs on the high-end ovens are TERRIBLE.)

5) Eventually I really do want a french-door oven, but I decided the market just isn't "there" yet. If my Kitchenaid breaks, or turns out to be a disappointment, I won't feel that bad replacing it with a French door unit a few years down the line.

So basically: Que sera, sera!

Thank you Kim Ladin!

Kim Ladin (I don't know how to get the 'green' name, new to Houzz.

My thinking is so much like yours it is scary. We should have worked on this together. and shared our research! :} My holdup is the ovens....and it shouldn't be so hard. Its just an oven. Please keep posting your results. I think this is a valuable thread and will be more so over time.

The french doors look great. Unfortunately for my design it would be an awkward location.....and the 'new design hot item price'. Did you ever consider a corner oven? I Dreamed of having one but have been told repeatedly it takes too much room in my little u shaped kitchen. We are retiring here, so no more 'next times'. The oven stays where it is, although I look forward to a double larger cavity from the little 27 single GE which barely held a small turkey. It may be overkill with the doubles but I have done without for so long...I look forward to baking cookies again, when it isn't 1 pan at a time, and being able to do a holiday meal ahead, without the oven, roaster oven, microwave, crockpot, and my 5 burners all going at the same time the day of.

ricksrb4, if you put your mouse over the name on the post and right click, you can choose "copy" and then paste it into your comment. That gives you the "green" name.

And I totally agree with you -- I'm really looking forward to having double ovens again!

I didn't consider corner ovens, as that wouldn't work with my layout. Plus I'm getting a pretty big kitchen (yay!!), so I don't really need to do that.

Thanks. :} (Corner ovens need a big kitchen, sadly, due to wasted space). I am tossing a corner sink/windows and figured it wouldn't be much different but it seems it is. Corner sink is one of the big reasons i am remodeling....other than everything is cheap and falling apart.

"ricksrb4

Why not Discovery? I am looking at Renaissance, as it is the one with Double convection."

The Discovery controller works a little bit differently than most ovens. I've had first hand experience with it but there are clues in the use and care manual. It has a very intense preheat. The use and care manual warns not to put food in during this period. Other ovens allow and even encourage putting some foods in during preheat, on certain modes like roasting. After it heats, the heating element(s) oscillate on and off with the idea that it will maintain the temperature evenly. When in this mode, it can't really move the temperature up very quickly. If you open the door and the temperature drops 40F, it takes a long time to come back up. If you open the door and it drops more than 50F the rapid preheat comes back on and you are supposed to remove your food until it preheats again. If you turn it up by 50F, you are supposed to remove your food. If you put a load of cold food, it can drop and take a very long time to come up. Some ovens have a fast preheat but you can still have food inside while it preheats or the fast preheat is optional.

I had a Discovery oven several years ago and it was much worse. It had to drop by about 150F in order to have a fast recovery which meant the temperature would drift down while doing something like making cookies. They did decrease that gap to 50F but it still is not something I would put up with. Most ovens have about a 25 degree drop or much less now days but when the elements come back on, if the door is open, they come on much more quickly bring the oven back up and don't burn your food. My biggest problems with this were while baking cookies or appetizers where it was necessary to open the door frequently and you need fast cooking times. Reading the manual, they tell you not to open the door. I am wondering how the "delay bake" would work. Does the fast preheat come on or does the oven preheat with the maintenance mode which is very slow.

Looking at the Renaissance, they have similar but not quite as strong warnings. I am not sure if it works the same way.

The odd thing in their manual for the Renaissance -->

When I had my Discovery wall oven and range, I was astounded that they could not maintain temperatures as well as the least expensive oven. I noticed it in the baking results but when I got a thermometer, WOW!

Yes, you would keep in mind a drop in temp when you open the door(40-100F but quick recovery) and a normal amount of swing in the temperature(5-25F on either side of the set temperature) but "Do not measure"? Unbelievable!

Dacor's response to this issue was to use the all convection mode, all the time with high speed fan, which was no better temperature wise but created hot spots. To their credit, they did buy my appliances back.

Wekick, Thanks for putting more doubt into my head. :} I am already choking at the cost of the Renaissance oven over my planned budget, so didn't even look at a more costly one seriously. I did look at the controls but they were way techie for me. I prefer simple buttons for my own personal use over fancy computerization. I am not a 'top of the line' person unless it makes a big difference.

As far as the temps not remaining constant, I guess I am used to opening the oven and adding, removing, shifting, stirring, etc and know the temp light goes off each time, but it comes back on quickly enough. Agreed baked goods are more sensitive, but then again I only do 1 tray/pan at a time. I wasn't sure if you were saying the Discovery is much worse when you asked why not consider it. I will make a note of this issue when I get an answer from the Dacor showroom rep about another question she is looking into for me. (If the 3 year warranty can be added on to).

He is saying tht the oven works by temperature averaging and that keeping a constant temperature may be difficult. Diplomatically not a recommendation.

Wouldn't most ovens, convection, be like that or is that a specific issue? This is a new concept for me.

NO! Most ovens lose heat when you open the door, though some turn off the heat when you open the door to save energy, while others try to keep the heat going so that they'll reheat better. Some ovens with fast preheat/reheat ruin the food with the fastness because they just throw a ton of heat indiscriminately from all angles to reheat. Normal ovens just put a little more energy into heat recovery than heat maintenance. For baking, I wouldn't ever buy an oven that can't do a cold start and heat while full.

What Wekick is trying to tell you is that unlike an old fashioned, good oven, these Dacor ovens have been specifically engineered to work wrong and ruin your food or make you relearn everything you know about cooking and baking to accommodate the idiosyncrasies of ovens that weren't designed for cooks. How they expect you to put the food in without opening the door, beats me!

Even heat and quick recovery time are hallmarks of a good oven. There are good ovens at every price point and not so good ones. None is perfect. None is best.

However, anyone oven shopping would be well advised to diligently read threads on this site and contact owners for real world follow up vs taking the word of a salesperson or random reviews. I say this as someone who did not and spent 2 years regretting it until I was able to replace the oven.

@Kim Ladin - Replacing an oven is no easy task. Don't assume it can be done easily, especially ovens with very different opening sizes and configurations. It usually requires precision carpentry and wood that matches the cabinet. Some FD ovens are so heavy they require specially reinforced cabinets.

I haven't had a complete working oven for 10 years. Didn't like it the last house (13 years) or this house (14 years). The last 10 I have muddled by with a 27' bake/broil only because the motherboard to the M/W blew out. I was NOT going to replace it with the same oven combo when I never liked it. I waited until I could do a remodel to a double 30". I was going to get a double convection KA, but honestly, reviews on everything are bad. No matter what I look at I have issues.

I have never seen anything like it. I am on the wire now and have to decide but after reading and studying, and asking, I am not confident about anything.....

Although I have 'stalked' houzz for many years I just this week got on. I thought the kitchen would be so much easier than 2 bathrooms at the same time....and for appliances it should be less work, but it isn't, sadly. I am grateful to be keeping my fairly new DW and Fridge. They both died before I could remodel. I am not into 'matching' as long as it is white.

Of course I would love suggestions and positive comments on ovens. The only thing is that even the 5,300 Dacor Renaissance oven has me choking. I have a gas cooktop that I put in a few years after moving in and just love. Hoping the newer one is as great.

Rick, a Dacor cooktop doesn't require a Dacor oven! Have you looked at Electrolux and Bosch?

no. I only went from KA and moderate priced, haven't worked up. Have you had success with those? I actually did see the electrolux a few years ago.....drool...price...faint....KA :}

ricksrb4 In the same boat. Had a small (27") GE wall oven with microwave and loved them, however with the remodel, we're getting a bigger (30") double wall oven OR wall oven/microwave combo. Our GE oven finally died, but we are using the micro for everything since we have already "gutted" the kitchen. Have to make a decision...the kitchen designer is ready to finish with us, I'm sure. :) I just cannot decide though...

No, I don't have personal experience with Electrolux and Bosch, but people here seem pretty happy with them. I'm guessing (given no model particulars) that Bosch has a price comparable to KA, and Electrolux is a bit more but not out of range. Certainly well less than Dacor, and with many many more supporters. I have Gaggenau, which really is high end (original theme of this thread -- as in if you have to ask the price don't bother). I went into my remodel knowing I was going to have Gaggenau ovens no matter what, and they're worth it, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other good ovens for a reasonable price. From what I've heard over the years, I think my best mid-range choice would be Electrolux. This is a double wall oven you're looking for, right?

Oh, sheesh! Now you guys have me considering the Bosch! ;-)

hahahah... I have been doing this for months! Ready to start gutting and still don't know which oven. SWhat, I have been using a son's hand me down mw on the counter for years. I spent a long time trying to figure out what MW to get and eventually decided it isn a useless dead spot on the counter. Have always had one there, can live with keeping it there. For the most part, I didn't want to dedicate a space to a short lived and always changing appliance or be locked into a size that I have to fit another one eventually, possibly the same brand if I don't like it. I have issues with dedicated space for always changing items. On the counter it stays. As far as ovens, I am trying to read about the others on Appliances, as suggested, but am still not getting anything solid. I don't see bosch having a double convection. Steam sounds fun, if you have room. I don't.

ricksrb4 -- I hate to tell you this, but the Bosch Benchmark has convection in both upper and lower ovens. So that won't help you rule it out. Sorry! ;-)

Oh, my, I have just started reading through the User Manual for the Bosch Benchmark double convection ovens. Only a few pages in and I'm already outraged at the ridiculous user interface design. I may be wrong, but it looks like it takes the following steps to set a general kitchen timer (not the kind that turns the oven off, just the kind that tells you to start checking your cookies):

1. Select Upper Oven or Lower Oven button (since you're not actually controlling either oven, this step is stupid and should not be necessary).
2. Select a cooking mode (again, irrelevant)
3. Enter an oven temperature and hit Enter (I'll just stop repeating myself here, but... well, you know)
4. Select "Kitchen Timer" from the three soft-button options under the display. (Do NOT try pressing the words "Kitchen Timer," because this is not a touch-screen.)
5. Enter the desired time and hit Enter.

Phew! I think I'll just get one of those old-fashioned egg timers that take all of one step to set.

Want to know how to turn off your timer once it starts beeping?

1. Depending on which oven you turned on to set the timer, press either Upper Clear/Off or Lower Clear/off (am I turning off my oven or just my timer? how am I supposed to know?!?).
   OR...
2. Open the oven door (ok, in some circumstance this could actually make sense, but it seems rather non-obvious).

This has all the usability of a fax machine.

I wonder what's wrong with appliance companies that their user interfaces are mostly so bad. Do they not realize they are creating software, and that they need to follow the same design processes that good software companies do?

Hey, Bosch ... if you're reading this ... give me a call one of these days and I can help you straighten this stuff out. Wouldn't it be amazing if your ovens were as user-friendly as they are high-performing?

ricksrb4 good call on the microwave sitting on the counter. Kim Ladin I was leaning toward a Bosch, but I use my oven timer for everything! My old GE was easy with a very similar touch screen. THAT would be the easiest transition and they are very reasonably priced. A reason to not go with GE? Other than my Rangetop will be Wolf and fridge panels will be Thermador....will throwing in a GE wall oven be too big of a quality difference for one kitchen?

Assume folks know that microwaves are essentially made by one or two companies -- Sharp or Panasonic I believe (someone correct me if that's currently changed) -- and rebadged. Few complaints about either. Some put them on a shelf, behind an appliance garage door. Some are left on the counter or put in a pantry. If you're redoing cabinets, I do suggest finding a home for the micro vs having it on the counter. There never seems to be enough counter space no matter how much you have IYKWIM.

Reading the user manual before buying is key. Also getting assessments from real users. Again, I had good luck and excellent responses with emailing GW posters on old threads and got very candid assessments when I bought a Bertazzoni range a few years ago. That's a controversial range in online reviews but when I heard from four different actual users over several years the story was different.

Re brands. The GW way always has been to pick your personal best for every category vs buying a suite of appliances from one brand. The brand buy can get discounts but it presents another one.

After you get the lovely ovens and start using them, things can go wrong. Hopefully, not right away or ever! But it happens. Then you confront service. Each brand services in a different way. So it's also important to see how that works and the responsiveness where you live.

I totally agree with @KimLadin on the user interface issues. That is likely to be found even at the high end. Our DD's TOL Kenmore ovens have a more intuitive interface to use than my Miele, f.ex. So no guarantees at high end.

A new thought: Historically with double ovens the second oven does not get the same level of usage. The combis are slightly smaller and seem to be frequently used. What about considering a single oven plus a combi or a single plus a combi seam oven and micro? Might be easier on the budget.

I have really loved my Electrolux oven and it is very intuitive and easy to use. The Kenmore Elite double ovens are also made by Electrolux I believe. It has a few less features but no blue enamel. If I had to replace my oven today, I would go with Electrolux again. They do still make a model that is very similar to mine.

http://www.appliancesconnection.com/electrolux-ei30ew35ps-i377849.html

The newer one is here

http://www.appliancesconnection.com/electrolux-ew30ew55ps-i373864.html

-the racks are covered with porcelain so that they can stay in for self clean

-dual fans

-the fans may run longer

My microwave is on a shelf close to the fridge because it is mostly used to reheat. The reheaters are out of my way while I am cooking!

I slid my 20 year old GE microwave in a shelf. It's been in appliance garages or on the counter in previous kitchens. I keep thinking it will die. But, it doesn't. It's black, my appliances are stainless. So what? I can always slide a new one in the shelf space. And, it has a timer that I use frequently.

Speaking of timers, I've got one on the microwave, two on the Thermador double oven, and three timers in the drawer. Because I come from a food testing background, I've found myself using all of them at same time. You can never have too many. Just buy yourself a good kitchen timer and be done with it.

When I open the oven door, I've made it a habit pattern to turn off the oven and turn it back on. Invariably, there will be a loss of temperature when I open the door. This habit isn't necessary, but I like to jumpstarts the thermostat. I would do this with any oven that I owned. I always have an oven thermometer in the oven to monitor temperature.

Back when we had more manual ovens, the temperatures were just as variable. We just didn't notice it. With digital thermometers, we get a little obsessive.

I like the idea of a microwave garage and as to your point Homechef, I really do like the microwave AND it still works. Maybe a garage with my current (cream colored) GE microwave is good enough. We are getting a hard plumbed Miele steam oven and putting it underneath the Wolf Range Top. The plumber came the other day to run the water line (steam oven) and gas line (range top) and I'm getting excited about having those! Seems like we use the microwave more than we need to...hoping we use the steam oven as our "go to" reheater after the kitchen is complete.

Speak for yourself, Homechef! I always noticed and worked with the temperatures in my old ovens!

S What!, the microwave is good for a fast heat of a single thing at a time. For reheating mixed foods or several portions nothing beats a steam oven!

Kim Laden, those instructions are shocking! I understand choosing an oven if there are two timers. The rest sounds like they didn't even test it during the design phase. Like with someone who cooks dinner. What model were you looking at? I just had to see for myself and looked up the manuals at AJMadison (which loads faster than Bosch):

Bosch Benchmark Series HBLP651UC

The kitchen timer can also be set by pressing the clock/timer
touchpad at the left of the control panel. The timer
input “00:00” value blinks in the center of the display. Enter
the desired timer value with the numeric touchpads and
press “Enter” to start the timer

Bosch Benchmark Series HBLP651LUC Sideswing is the same.

Cancel by touching the kitchen timer softkey or opening the door. That's the part I don't like. Losing the timer when you open the door. But that might mean that the sound of a finish timer ends then, not that it resets. I don't know. One could ask the forum. I know there are owners here.

There is also something called an "oven timer" which will turn off the oven when it hits zero.

maybe the variation in timer instructions is 1/ for the food inside and 2/ for a separate....timing the pasta on the stove? I purchased a little OXO? 3 item timer a few years ago and love it. I can carry it upstairs with me to work on the computer, or outside and not forget I have something in the oven because I can't hear it.

You guys talking about steam is tempting, except for the space limitations. Smallish kitchen. My sister in law in Vienna (she is Austrian) cooked us a meal there a few years ago and I had never heard of them till then or again a few weeks ago. Im having trouble fitting in basic double ovens.

If we all lived close together it would be fun to do an 'oven' tour. :}

Rick, it's the budget that a steam oven needs to fit in. Steam ovens are pretty small (though they hold a lot because you're not using a large air volume), and a single large convection oven with a separate steam oven takes up less room than a normal double oven. There are combo units that probably take a few inches less vertical space, though I'm not a big fan of combo units...

Right, Plllog. I prefer to not have combos. I can't sleep, so am poking around at steam ovens on line just out of curiosity, but still need more info on convection reliability as my first priority.

I have a small kitchen too. I made room for a steam oven and warming drawer by converting a tall pantry cabinet into an appliance cabinet. I have a separate closed door pantry so I didn't loose storage space. I also have a duel fuel range. This setup works great for how much I cook and entertain.

plllog - thanks! I was wondering how that Clock/Timer button worked, but I couldn't find the instructions in the manual I was looking at.

I've had a chance to get over my snit about the timer UI, and realized I could probably just get a couple of standalone egg timers and not use the timer on the oven if I hate it that much. ;-)

ricksrb4 Our kitchen is on the smaller size, so I fit the Steam Oven under the Range Top. I'll let you know how that works out after after its installed and I start using it. Its taking the place of a drawer for pots/pans that would normally go under the Cooktop/Range Top. Now to figure out where to put pots/pans...

I appreciate Kim's concerns about usability. Good idea to check the manual.

I rather like the idea that the timer goes off when you open the door, but only if it is at zero. If I open the door to rotate my cookies with 5 minutes left, I don't want to timer to go off!

While fancy electronic controls are sexy, I'm looking at the ones with knobs and, ideally, buttons. I assume (could be wrong) they are less prone to failure.

We have an 18-year old DCS double wall oven. We have replaced the display board three times in that period, and F-P is scrounging refurbished boards, so no guarantee the next one will be repairable.

If you can't find a new display board, you can have the original repaired. There are two or three companies that you can find on line. Just do a search on line.