I love QS oak in a dark stain in inset cabinets. I also don't know if I have the "nerve" to do a kitchen in oak. But, I adore the look. I think it has to be the right house or at least the right decor. Look at these pics that I have had forever. Ignore the pink countertop in the second pic. I think soapstone or a dark countertop looks nice with QS oak. Again I share your love for QS oak.

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oldbat2be: I couldn't get my phone to post the photos but here is a thread where I posted photos: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3602467/which-kitchen-style-for-my-90s-era-house

Cassandra, llucy, omelet and nicole: It is really hard to get over the "oak is dated" thinking, but reading more comments like yours is starting to turn around what "dated" means to me. No matter what, at some point someone will think my new cabinets look dated. Even when they're NEW! Cassandra, you're right... shaker style and subway tiles have been around forever. Can't really go too wrong with that combo. nicole: my house is filled with oak trim that I'm considering painting white one day too.

mrsshayne: I think you're right - it is that specific mix that just doesn't work for me (orange with cathedral doors and plain sawn grain). Love your analogy with the Audi! Yes! This CAN be done! I CAN make oak cabs look good!

lam702: Since reading about wood on GW, I've gained an appreciation for the oak itself. Even though I hate the style of my cabinets, I love how strong and durable oak is. These cabinets and doors have held up so well despite my not caring for them for so many years. They are practically indestructible! Dent-proof, stain-proof... oak is a great wood for kitchens!

Linelle, yes, "it's the context" - really good point. A totally different style of door alone will change the whole look of the oak for me. I'm going to start another post about the stain. I don't know much about stains and how to choose one! "Not too red not too yellow" sounds right to me!

mayflowers: I will be getting them made by a local cabinet manufacturing company and they tell me they can do pretty much any wood, stain, style I'd like. I like the tone of that vanity you posted. Surprisingly, though it looks a lot like my current cabinets, I like it! Do you think that's white oak or red oak in the vanity?

ILoveRed: Love those photos you shared! Wow, oak can be gorgeous. I like the stain on those too but I have to find a balance for DH's sake. He'll already be giving up a white kitchen for me... to ask him to go for a darker stain might be too big a stretch. :(

I think the concept I hate the most is calling something dated. I think if you love something and if it fits your home's style, nothing is ever dated. But I have to qualify that by saying that, in the right home, I like Formica counters with the stainless steel trim and top-mount sinks. Repeat: that is in the right home. It IS all about the context.

Quarter- and rift-sawn oak is classic and has been popular since the days of the Arts and Crafts movement, bungalows, craftsman, prairie style homes, etc. FLW used it extensively in his prairie homes where it is as gorgeous today as it was then. And doesn't look dated at all.

A craftsman style kitchen will never look dated in a craftsman-style home. A country/cottage style kitchen will never look dated in a Cape Cod or farmhouse. A modern kitchen fits a modern home (not contemporary, modern, there is a difference). An MCM-style kitchen will never look dated in an MCM home. Yada yada.

Sure, that doesn't mean that someone can't use more contemporary style elements in any of those kitchens and still stay true to the home's integrity. My MCM kitchen will definitely have under-mount sinks, for example. After all, I know of no Victorian kitchen in Victorian homes that still cook on wood-fired stoves. :)

As I recall, you said your home doesn't have a particular style so you are more free to make choices to create a style that you like. My best advice would be to trust yourself and go with what you love and don't worry if some short-sighted, non-visionary person who slavishly follows trends thinks your kitchen is dated.

What funky said.

Thanks funkycamper. It's going to be really hard for me to put aside the idea of "dated" styles! It's been so ingrained in (the little) I know about design, fashion, etc. but I'm trying! You gave some great examples to show how key context is. And yes, you remember correctly - my home was built in the 90s and has no particular style so I do have some freedom to just pick a style I love. :)

What's been holding me back from going with my heart is that DH much prefers an all-white kitchen and every one of my friends and family also prefer a white kitchen. Not one of them would choose wood. I had to post here to make good and sure I wouldn't regret choosing wood over white. New cabinets are such a huge investment so I feel that I have to get it right. If this didn't involve so much money and if cabinets weren't so permanent, I'd be more confident about my decision.

The overarching message I'm getting from all your responses is to go with my heart and choose what I love; to heck with trends and what others might think. ;)

Yes - you got it! Plus, whatever you put in now will be "dated" in a few short years - you can't be "in style" or match the current fad for all time (unless you remodel every 5 to 8 years or so!) So, go with what you love now and what will make you happy each time you walk into your kitchen!

BTW...as others have mentioned, often the style or finish change the look dramatically. E.g., with no arches and a matte/satin finish, the look is completely different! Maybe your family will be on board if they see some of the pictures posted earlier in this thread...

I remember when white cabinets were dated. While white is popular now, I think wood is still popular too. We have wood stained trim throughout the house so unless we were replacing all good quality windows, I wasn't going with a white kitchen. We went with maple but I loved the beauty of QS oak. I like the darker oak pictures above but there are a lot of options with oak other than the orange oak. I also thought the bathroom oak vanity that Mayflowers posted was gorgeous. I loved the accent tiles in the floor that look like the vanity hardware -great detail. I would have preferred darker cabinets but our kitchen is smaller and not a lot of natural light so I went lighter. That also worked better with the existing windows. There are a lot if stunning white kitchens but I still think the warmth that stained wood brings to a room is beautiful and classic.

We didn't go with white kitchen cabinets either. My DH didn't like white, preferring a natural or stained wood. We chose a natural maple color, not the trend today I suppose but I am very happy with it. I did however, paint my bathroom cabinets white and love them too. One of my bathrooms had an espresso oak stain, but the bathroom, which is small with only 1 window, needed to be brightened up and the white did that. If I had more light in that bath, I would have kept the espresso oak, I thought it was a lovely, rich color. In the right setting, I think just about anything can work and be beautiful. Just look at some of the GW kitchens in colors you might not expect to look good, reds, yellows, blues, greens, etc. These kitchens look amazingly beautiful. It all has to do with finding the right style for your home, and what you love.

Red oak has a reddish cast. No way around that. Unstained white oak may amber over time in the light.

There is something I don't believe has been raised on this thread: limed oak. Here is a link with several examples of how it looks. Oak Gets a Modern Makeover.

Limed oak lightens up the look, modernizes it and eliminates all the red. I think it's the way to go with oak.

IMO -- and it's just mine -- natural oak will look dated or historic almost the moment it's installed. There's just so much of it.

If you have a Craftsman or Mission house then it's right at home. Otherwise, you will get what you love -- I agree with that -- but must accept the visual impact.

I love your inspiration pics and had many of my own just like it. Also like you I felt overwhelmed at the idea picking a stain and I too was worried that they would look dated. But I think unjustifiably so. To satisfy my desire for some wood in the kitchen I went with a natural cherry island. The perimeter was painted (off white). But I still look at pics like the ones you posted and swoon. I hope you follow through on your vision. You didn't mention what kind of counter top you are leaning towards. You posted one leaning white and a couple leaning black/gray. I personally think you want to avoid really dark black. I just think the soft inviting wood looks better with a slightly muted color such as either a light or dark gray. Something like soapstone or marble (or marble look alike). My favorite of the pics you posted was the last one with the medium gray counter. I think that is so pretty. Second to that would be the marble counter. Something about shiny black just seems to lean more dated to me. Good luck.

You're replacing quartersawn oak, for which people would commit murder to have, with more oak.

"TERRIFIED." Holy moly. I am of the opinion that the minute you install anything, you're going to look around and feel you've made a mistake. You're terrified of making some wrong decision that will really, only be wrong because you like something else now.

I wish the words "dated" and "timeless" were illegal. They're rather stupid, conditional, and subjective words. They're so relative I feel like they're magazine-created. Go through, oh, 6 months of any given home decor magazine and collect ever article that calls a room "timeless." You're going to find that every decor style, every material, and every author calls 100 styles "timeless." Geeze, I DESPISE MCM. But look at it all over the place. (Only shicksal's home have I ever enjoyed.) Timeless? Dated? To me it's dated because I hate the era and lines of the furniture.

It sounds like what you actually hate is the color. Why don't you take a cabinet door down, get your hands on some Citristrip (do a search for instructions. It's very simple and non-flesh-eating) and strip it. Experiment with different stains that don't contain the word "honey," "golden," or "medium." Leave the stain on for different lengths of time, and experiment with a 2nd coat, 3rd coat, etc., to see what saturation you like. See my note below on liming.

rococogurl, the most successful liming needs another step in there to not turn the 80s pink. There is a tiny, translucent shade of some kinda brown over that liming. I've been doing that with a bunch of the cabinets I've stripped and Oh, are they pink unless I do that last, small step. Once done? I can stare at them all day.

I started out addicted to painted cabinets. Didn't care what wood they were. Then I stripped an oak door and can't get enough of the grain, either. But I'm not driven by fashion.

Try a door. You have nothing to lose and a lot of time, money and headache to prevent.

It is funny but I see very few complaints about the color of natural oak flooring -- yes, there are a few, but most seem to accept that the golden color acts as a pleasing neutral to most decors in older homes. I love mine.

My family room is completely made of knotty pine (paneling, built in cabinets and shelves), approx. 60 years old. That material is completely "out of fashion" and has aged to an dark orange-y shade -- but I like it and have resisted multiple suggestions to paint it.

Yet, I tend to dislike the 1980's golden oak kitchens (and, I think that I always did -- never went for them in my previous homes). So maybe it is just the combinations that went into that style, as buehl suggests, that turns me off, or just the very particular shade that they tended to be.

I love the inspiration pics that you posted, especially the first. If that is the look that rings your bells, go for it!!!

@CEFreeman -- Yes, you will get pink with red oak. No question. Usually best to lime white oak. No pink. But difficult these days to get the white.

My salvage mantel, from the 1890s, is pure white oak and blond. Coated it with tung oil 12 y.a. and still blond. No pink at all and it hasn't ambered.

But white oak for cabinets won't be the same. There are tons of glazes including that sort of combo that looks like limed plus gray that you sometimes see in flooring. I think it can easily be tweaked. I think it's such a terrific look.

During the 80s I owned a golden oak house built in 1896. Loved it. But it looks historical. Even Crown Point oak kitchens, which are just gorgeous, look historical to me.

All depends on the house and the owner and how it's treated.

Thanks everyone for keeping this discussion going. I need this lengthy discussion to feel 100% confident with going for oak. I still have lots of questions but have tons of errands to get to first. Argh.... why must life always get in the way of kitchen planning? ;)

In the meantime, I'll quickly post these photos of my current kitchen. This is what makes me so afraid of getting oak again!

Ms K, but you're not going to get cabinets that look like those, right? What I don't like about what you have now has nothing to do with the fact that they're oak. They would be unfortunate whatever the wood or paint or whatever.

Oak is not a crime. Oak rocks.

I have "eyebrow" arches on my uppers I ignore. (they weren't my choice) Detailed arches on ALL cabs I think would look pretty busy. You might be happy with oak in a more streamlined design and especially if you do drawers for your lowers.

Agree, don't confuse budget builder grade oak cabinets from the 1990s with classic quarter sawn oak in a mission/craftsman style house or rift sawn oak in a midcentury modern house. The 90s gave oak a bad rep for being cheap and ugly and lets not forget about the whitewashed oak craze that lasted a few months; please don't blame the entire species of trees for the bad decisions of some humans!

Thank you, THANK YOU, for continuing to help me through this, everyone! I've read and re-read every one of your messages and I'm digesting, mulling over all of the feedback. You're all so wonderfully supportive - thank you. I wish I could take time to reply personally but gotta start cooking dinner soon so I'll have to do a more generalized reply.

Can anyone tell me what type of oak my current cabinets look like, and is it stained or natural? I'm guessing red oak because when I look at the end grain, it appears that the pores are more open than closed.

I agree that the wood on my current cabinets is, itself, lovely. Oak grain has a texture that no other wood has and I love how strong and solid oak feels. That being sad, I'm certainly NOT going to replicate ANY design elements from these cabinets! I'm going to go for straight lines with a mix of shaker and slab doors, a brown-toned stain, and no ornate, fussy detailing or hardware.

What I'm grappling with, is I don't know how to make oak work with the look and feel that I want for my kitchen:

• I want my kitchen to look fresh and contemporary, like it was updated and refreshed. I don't want my kitchen to have that "historic" feel that rococogurl described. My home was built in the 90s so that just wouldn't fit in the context of my home.
• I also want to include some old fashioned elements like inset cabinetry and bin pulls.
• A light and airy feel would be wonderful too, but it seems hard to achieve "light and airy" with oak. Oak can feel so overbearing and "heavy" when there's too much of it.

How the heck do I achieve this with oak??

Before I head off to start dinner, I felt I had to reply to you, funkycamper:

Oh my gosh, I HAVE been "designing by poll" (yikes!) I thought it was the best way to glean some design know-how from others who know more than I do. But I totally see how unhelpful it can be. I shall stop it now! My friends and family will be glad too because I keep asking for their advice then not taking it! Ha ha... And, my goodness, you're right - if DH wants white, then he needs to do some of the grunt work to find inspiration pics, etc. too!

MsK, have you been reading my mind? I was all set for white-painted Shaker until I saw way, way too many "inspiration" pix and realized that everyone was doing it. I don't like feeling like a trend follower! So I went back to the one inspiration pic I had that was Craftsman, and now I'm worrying about whether oak is going to look dated. Who cares, as long as I like it, right? I just wish my "is it going to be too dark in my itty bitty kitchen?" concern was so easy to dismiss.

So yes. Your oak is pretty. Your current kitchen design, not so much. Good luck with DH (and if he prevails, white kitchens really are lovely.)

@Ms K - The oak cabinets in the picture are called "golden oak" but they ambered red oak with no stain. If you remove the stain the wood color would not change. I agree you don't want that same look. It is very dated. Sorry.

I suggest again that, if you want what you are describing

"A light and airy feel would be wonderful too, but it seems hard to achieve "light and airy" with oak.

That you look at the photos of oak cabinets on this Oak Gets a Modern Makeover Link.

You will see what I'm talking about. You may not like that look. You may like a wood and white look better. But you can see the point I'm making and decide what you think.

This is what I mean by historic oak -- it's a kitchen with lovely oak but suitable for a Craftsman. The cabinets are gorgeous but it doesn't suit a 90s house. I have a 90s house as well so I get it.

We went with Red Oak and had many stain samples made before we decided on Natural. We have a 90's home with lots of oak and wanted to retain our original upper cabinets and replace our lower cabinets and countertop.

One way to achieve light and airy with oak is what's around it - lighting and color. I can't tell from your photos what your window and lighting situation is - but windows and lighting can be key to the overall feel. In two of your inspiration photos, there is also creative use of colors that provide lightness - one has touches of light green and another has light blue. Especially with crisp white trim, they are a lovely contrast to the warmth of the oak.

Another good oak story. We moved in to 60s blonde oak but an odd finish. When remodeling I told the contractor I wanted to replace the door to the garage. He said it was a really good fire door and we could just refinish it rather than $1000 to replace it. He said the new door wouldn't be as good as the one we had. So we paid $150 to have the door refinished to go with the new trim. Our 1966 door looks brand new and beautiful. The graining shows up now and looks amazing.

If oak is your hang up have you considered another type of wood? I did a cherry kitchen in a former home that was gorgeous.

The trick is, get the kitchen you want and the MINUTE you do your reveal, never visit the Kitchen forum again so you'll have no idea what's dated! ;-)

I checked out the links rococogurl posted and I love the Arts & Crafts oak kitchen but agree that's not appropriate for your home. And I love the different finishes in the modern oak article EXCEPT the first kitchen pictured. And then I realized that I love those finishes on slab cabinets but not if there is any kind of trim unless it's Arts & Craft style trim. You wouldn't think Shaker would be that different from the A&C but, to my eyes, it makes a huge difference. I'm just kinda musing out loud, I guess.

I think you could do a light oak that's pickled or cerused or one of the other finishes described as long as you stick with slab doors. Slab oak with white Shaker could be a very modern, light and airy look for your kitchen that would definitely not look "dated" (for lack of a better term, I still hate that word, lol).

I've posted a few pictures before, but we did quartersawn oak in our kitchen and I'm in love with the end result. Our house wasn't a good fit for white cabinets, and I love the richness of stained wood. (Bad cell phone pics, but all I have.)

We just finished our remodel. If you go with quartersawn oak it should be white oak. We did all of our own finishwork and our cabinet maker was ok with that. We wanted a Stickley style finish so there were several steps starting with a dye before the stain. I felt like the backsplash and other details would be more likely to feel dated then the cabinets. We decided to stick with the Arts and Crafts style that we liked and avoid trendy. We also didn't want it to be too dark so we picked lighter counters and floors. Go with what you like, you are the one living with it.

I'm on my way out, so didn't read all the comments. Don't think Sadie is around GW much/if at all - her vintage gumwood kitchen has the same undertones and I think it is beautiful.

Thank you, everyone, for keeping the feedback coming in! I've read and re-read this thread over and over. I've also looked through my inspiration pics and gazed at each of my favourite ones, carefully analyzing and trying to figure out what makes them work. I think I've figured it out:

All of my inspiration photos (e.g. the ones I posted in my original message at the top of this thread) have one thing in common: there are very few or NO wall cabinets. The wood is limited to the base cabinets and there are either windows, open shelving, or backsplash material on the walls. I find that kitchens with wall cabinets on every wall, have a heavy and overbearing feeling, which works so well in certain homes and styles, but wouldn't help me achieve light and airy.

So I think I've found my way to keep oak... but it will mean sacrificing some major storage. Hmmm.... quite the dilemma! Argh!

emckillip: Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one grappling with this! I totally agree that white kitchens are lovely - the first inspiration kitchens I fell inlove with were all white kitchens.

rococogurl: I really appreciate all the ideas and info you've been sending my way. I do like the limed oak but I'm like funkycamper - I only like it on slab doors. I didn't think I liked the all-slab door style but I came across K L's kitchen reveal last night and I absolutely LOVE her kitchen. She pulls off dark walnut so well - the kitchen looks fresh, airy and pretty too! So I'm mulling over the idea of limed oak slab cabinets... hmm? I don't think I've mentioned it on this thread but I do plan do do a mix of wood and white so your suggestion is spot on. Here's the other thread I've got going, debating how to mix the two tones.

quadesl: I like the tone of your oak! You're so lucky yours has such a lovely even brown tone to it - no redness or orangeness at all! Is this the tone they've aged to, or are they still quite new and fresh?

omelet: I do have a lot of light from a west-facing window from the afternoon through to the evening. But during the rest of the day, and during cloudy days it can be quite dim in my kitchen. I'm getting the lighting redone too so I'll see how we can optimize the placement to get a more light, airy feel. I did twig onto how nicely light greens, light blues, and light greys look next to oak! Those seem to be the colours that give oak a more fresh feel.

maries1120: Wow, what a great savings! And, eco-friendly too... always great to reuse whenever possible.

Cassandra: I did go look at different woods at a showroom this weekend and the next runners up after oak were maple and cherry, but I explained above that I don't think it is the oak I'm hung up on after all... it's how to make ANY wood cabinets work with the feel and look I'm trying to achieve. I love the glimmer to the cherry in those cabinets BTW!

DLM2000: Thanks for the chuckle! ;)

funkycamper: See my comments to rococogurl above. ;) I agree with you about the limed oak and slab doors.

my_four_sons: I really like how the gold-coloured hardware and pendant look against the dark stain! Gorgeous.

lunarlab: I wish I could do more of the work for this kitchen reno myself, like you did. But with two young kids, it just ain't happening! ;) What a great way to make sure the stain came out exactly how you wanted it. That must have been A LOT of work!!

Allison0704: It's pretty amazing how Sadie worked around that very tight little space! Wow did the previous owner pack a lot of cabinetry in a small space - seeing the cabinets so close to the counters made me feel squirmy and claustrophobic!

Cassandra, your cherry cabinets are gorgeous. Was it natural finish or stain of some sort?

I was told by the folks who did our lower cabinets that the stain/finish used on older oak cabinets tended to move towards the orange color as they age. He said my lower cabinets will retain their same color over time.

We went with the Natural Walnut color stain from Old Masters after having a bunch of samples made up for us.

http://mobile.myoldmasters.com/color-compass.htm

Thanks. Those were DuraSupreme natural cherry--no stain. They were quite white-ish or pink looking when arrived (I panicked, almost) but true to what I was told turned that color within a couple months. I'm currently looking at DuraSupreme again for a new kitchen remodel, along with several other brands.

I went well against the grain. I wanted a dated look; somewhere in the 1890's.

Pore-filled white oak, fruitwood stain, garnet shellac.

In the history of wood finishing, somewhere near 1898 the furniture makers decided to emphasize the oak grain by switching to a dark, black pore filler, which I personally don't care for, but prior to that, this was the preferred finish for oak (and we are talking white oak only, red oak was considered firewood).

Sombreuil - those cabinets are gorgeous!!!

sorry for the hijack...

my_four_sons: I LOVE your cabinets! Can you give me more details?

I haven't read all the posts here, but go with your heart on this. After all, someday white cabinets, or whatever the latest trend is, will be "dated" to some eyes.

Everything will be dated in time. Its unavoidable, no matter how much we try and choose things that are supposedly "timeless" so you may as well get what you like and stop feeling like you need to apologize for it. We all have different tastes, you can't please everyone and the only people you need to please are yourself and your husband.

I just started a thread about quartersawn. It makes my heart LEAP! I just found out it's affordable, and less than what we were going to spend for cherry. I'm dancing, really!!

We're staying away from the lighter stains because they tend to look so yellow. I also like the more subtle contrast between the non-grain and grain (I don't know what the non-grain part is called).

Our bedroom set is a very dark quartersawn oak, and I love it. But it's too dark for the kitchen.

I'm late to this party but agree completely with the initial post. But guess what? After two white kitchens because I hated oak SO much I am now building a new home and chose oak today. It is red oak with a rift cut and teak stain and I am going to love it. We are building on the edge of a forest and I wanted the warm woodsy feel to permeate throughout the house. I also want a sort of funky almost mid-century modern look and these will look perfect (Talk about dated--I'm starting out that way!). I have surprised the heck out of myself by choosing these, but am looking forward to something different and unique!

i think oak is going to "come back" soon possibly not an entire house full, but pieces here and there

Well, when this thread popped up again I am now wondering what the OP did? It's been almost 2 years!

In the meanwhile, I also discovered how much I love the raw wood look. LOVE it! Today I spent the day putting neutral, Timbermate grain filler on some red oak cabinets. It grays them and makes them closer to the white oak doors I've put on other things, that I absolutely love so much. It certainly takes away the black grain mentioned earlier. I love the gray/tan/cream look of white oak! (OH! Flat, Exterior, Acrylic, DARK paint base goes on with an invisible finish and doesn't change the color at ALL YEAH!)

Are you ready for this? Yet again, in the 12 years since I've been rebuilding, I find myself admitting I might. Just might. Paint some cherry cabinets I refinished. Might. The thing is, some of the doors are gorgeous and as-of-yet unfinished.

It never occurred to me to ask others what to do. I have such (crazy) eclectic taste nothing I do really appeals to many. Mostly those who are into reclaimed/reused stuff like my home. It always pleasantly surprised me when someone compliments my stuff. Because ***I*** love it.

I wonder if she did a two-tone? Oak on top and white on the bottom to please her DH? Or if he just put in his two cents and forgot about it!?

This is the kitchen in the log cabin we are currently (and slowly) updating.

It absolutely makes me crazy.

We are updating the plan. Not changing the basic layout bit are hoping to do quarter sawn oak lowers and off white uppers. In a shaker front. I’m hoping it stands the test of time but I guess we’ll see. We won’t be changing the wood walls so that’s a design issue for sure.

Pretty!

I think you can second guess yourself to death about any decorating decisions and kitchen cabinets come under the heading of very expensive decorating to me. Even what we think of as 'classics' become dated looking over time because there are always changes in door style or stain to keep things moving. For the first kitchen I did a million years ago, I chose slab oak doors with inset brass pulls which has come around again and is very on trend right now. But that oak was that dreaded golden oak, no stain but finished with a poly that ambers over time. Now much of the look is the weathered French oak so those golden slab doors would look very dated color wise. Three kitchens and 30+ years later I've chosen oak again for the bottom cabs) for the first time since those slab doors - not quarter or rift so they won't appeal to the masses but I'm very happy with them.

I have oak cabinets & I love them! They may not be "trendy", but the are solid & very nice.