Another request re: handling our own renovation

8 years ago

The downstream thread on acting as your own GC is really interesting, and there were some useful comments. We are debating this very topic, and I hope you can issue spot for me.

The work: remove existing tile and wood floors (1900 ft2) and replace with wood. Demo kitchen island, replace with new island (same footprint) with larger cooktop. New countertops, which will necessitate new backsplash tile. Replace sink and faucet, island cooktop, downdraft vent. Replace bar cabinet with new cabinet and countertop to house a new wine fridge. Replace tile in powder room and laundry room. New baseboards.

We have solicited bids from cabinet makers, floor guys, and a few GCs. GC#1 bid was so full of "owner to provide" lines that it is almost impossible to evaluate. He even suggested "owner to provide flooring materials, adhesive, grout, etc. " and "owner to provide cabinets," which is exactly the things I asked him to bid on. GC#2 is incredibly detailed and thorough, but his bid came back at $90,000 which is FAR more than we expected. Adding up the individual bids for floors and cabinet maker, along with estimates for tile and countertops came to about $40,000.

Given the cost discrepancy, we're considering handling this ourselves. I work from home, so I am on-site though I work hard and don't necessarily have a ton of time to spend overseeing every minute detail.

Here is the schedule and budget I believe we are dealing with:

1. Order new kitchen island and bar cabinet - 8 weeks lead time. Cabinet-maker will install, but will not demo.

2. Order cooktop, downdraft, blower, sink, faucet, wine fridge (all already selected). Store in garage. Appliance store will install cooktop and downdraft when island is ready. Select and order backsplash tile.

3. Work with single contractor for all wood floors and tile. He is highly recommended by friends who have worked with him, and cost is reasonable. He will demo all floors, prep slab, install wood and tile, and replace baseboards. Start demo and floor work approx. 3 weeks before kitchen island is completed.

4. demo kitchen island and bar cabinet ourselves. We will have to take care of trash.

5. uninstall existing cooktop. My dad is an electrical engineer and very handy, and can uninstall and cap electrical lines.

6. Hire electrician if needed to expand electrical current to meet needs of new cooktop and snake lines for island outlets.

7. Select slab from location that has fabricator and installation included.

8. Cabinet maker will install kitchen island and bar cabinet.

9. Electrical engineer dad to install wine fridge. Or appliance store to install for fee.

10. Counter company to template kitchen with new kitchen island; fabricate; and come back to install. (Do we need to remove existing counter tops from surround counters, or will fabricator do this?)

11. Hire tile guy for new backsplash.

12. Appliance store to install new cooktop.

Plumber to hook up new sink, faucet, and disposal.

Does this sound reasonable? I would appreciate any and all feedback.

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Comments (11)

Ichabod Crane
8 years ago
Permits?
etab35
Original Author
8 years ago
Thanks! We don't need any permits for this work.
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User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
Design work by a professional to fully document the construction and materials selection, as well as the layout, should be the absolute first thing on your list. Without that documentation, it's not surprising that you got such differing bids. A contractor will substitute his usual materials or way of doing things instead of what you want if you don't have the proper documentation. And 90K would not shock me for your list. At all.

Yes, you need permits. And there are required updates that you need to fund as well.
User
8 years ago
6. Hire electrician if needed to expand electrical current to meet needs of new cooktop and snake lines for island outlets.

You need permits.

I'm not surprised by 90,000 either, especially including cabinets and not much work being done by your family team.
User
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago
As suggested by others, the reason you are getting widely different and high prices is that rather than giving the bidders drawings and specifications, you made it necessary for them to make assumptions. Not only will you not get good bids, if you manage the project yourself you will get enough extra charges that it would have been cheaper to hire a GC.

Item #1 on your list should be "Design and document the work.
jellytoast
8 years ago
"Yes, you need permits. And there are required updates that you need to fund as well."

What do you mean by required updates that need to be funded?
klem1
8 years ago
"What do you mean by required updates that need to be funded?"

As in codes that were inacted since home was built. As in if more electric outlets are installed a new breaker box will be required. As in ,,,,,,,wait a minute,why did you ask jelly?
jellytoast
8 years ago
Thanks, klem. I asked because I wasn't sure what it meant, though now that you've explained it, it seems obvious, lol.
etab35
Original Author
8 years ago
Hi everyone, thanks for the helpful comments. I have a few responses / questions:

1. I live in a big, low-cost city. Prices are universally, and significantly, cheaper here than on the coasts.

2. Our city "no permit required" list includes cabinets and countertops, as well as new flooring. What else are we doing that would require a permit? I mentioned we may need an electrician to expand the electrical in the island, *if needed*. It's not clear that this is needed. And if it is needed, wouldn't our licensed electrician file the permit? Also, we do not require any additional outlet boxes.

3. I understand the point that contractors are giving different bids potentially for different things, but should not be the case here. We came with very explicit ideas about what we needed in a kitchen island (we are not replacing any other cabinets - only the island). The dimensions are the same as the existing island. Both of the cabinet makers we are considering will do a detailed CAD drawing before finalizing the bid and work order, so there should not be any major surprises. Also, both cabinet makers we met with turned in bids that were within $1,000 of each other. Some of the flooring contractors included a bid for pre-finished floors, and another for un-finished floors, but I have taken that cost discrepancy into account.

4. There is no change to the layout of the house. There is no real "design" work except the design of the kitchen island, which has been decided upon. We are primarily replacing a few things with better options of the same things.

5. When I'm comparing the $90,000 contractor bid to the individual bids I've received, the contractor bid includes a few things that we have not received a bid for: (a) plumber, (b) electrician, (c) backsplash tile and installation, (d) demo of kitchen island. So, it doesn't make sense to me that those items plus the overall management of the remodel should be an additional $50,000.

I suppose the thing to do is to solicit yet another GC to see what the bid looks like, and to go back to our favorite flooring bid to get a exact bid using the precise materials we want, and then see where things stand.

I really appreciate everyone's feedback and collective experience. Please keep the comments coming.
weedyacres
8 years ago
I think you've got a good handle on things. You've got the design done, and it's just a matter of deciding on materials and hiring people to install them.

So I'd proceed as follows:

1. buy/order/reserve everything first so that materials won't hold up your project. i.e., don't wait to pick the granite until your cabinets are installed. Pick it now, reserve the slab, put down a deposit, and then pull the trigger when the time comes.

2. Demo applicable cabinets.

3. Move/add electrical as needed (yes, electrician can/should pull permit and get inspection)

4. Get the flooring replaced (assume you're changing the kitchen as well)

5. Install new cabinets

6. Install new counters and appliances

7. Install backsplash

Good luck!
Bruce in Northern Virginia
8 years ago
Every city has slightly different permit requirements, but in my area you would definitely need an electrical permit, and you may need a mechanical permit for the vent. Updated codes for kitchens have some very specific requirements (e.g., two 20 amp circuits for counter height receptacles, make-up air for venting systems above a certain CFM, etc.). Once you run any wire and do any type of electrical work that goes beyond plug-in devices, your city may require you to bring the entire kitchen up to current codes. However, what you describe in your plans looks like very standard work for any electrician.

Bruce

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Another request re: handling our own renovation

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