Sorry to harp on the galley thing more, but this is my galley-ish kitchen with 4'7" aisle (can't find a pic right now that actually has the cabinet glass in it). It's plenty big enough for 2 people to work and others to pass through. Losing 9" will make it feel less open but would still leave me enough room for working in. Honestly the slightly smaller aisle would make it more efficient for cooking (less steps across), and some of your galley options have great work triangles with very adequate amounts of counter space for more than one cook - things your other layouts are sorely lacking. It will also be easier to do less exterior structural work with the windows - yours involve covering up the far window and putting the stove where your second one is. Any of your layouts keeping the kitchen in it's current location are going to become super congested if you have a large party, but otherwise it doesn't seem like it will be that big of a problem as it will open up directly to your main dining/entertainment space.

About moving the stairs-- I seriously doubt there is enough headroom to get a code compliant stair in the front bedroom area. Upthread there is a picture of the house, showing a bungalow-style, rather low pitched roof. It's not a two story house.

But more than that, IMO it's not practical to gut the entire house and rebuild it, when the homeowner is only going to be there for 5-8 years. Anything can happen in that time, i.e. job transfer, desire for more space and land, several kids, what have you. And the pay back at resale is very doubtful-- It might make some sense if the house happened to be in Cupertino, but not in most parts of the country.

I encourage the OP to work out a realistic budget up front, with a very hefty margin for error. Once the walls are open, you never know what you will find, e.g. dry rot. So sticking with a simple galley kitchen, or one wall with peninsula, will work. At the very most, you could maybe put a small kitchen in the great room, if you were very careful with costs.

Any of these simple kitchens will give "face time" with other people in the home, and remove the isolated, closed off feel that the kitchen has now, which (I'm guessing) is one of the main things the OP wants.

In fact, if the main goal is socializing, then the quickest, cheapest, easiest way is simply to open up the wall to the front room, rearrange and paint the cabinets to get a more efficient arrangement, put down a new counter top, maybe new hardware, new appliances, and build the deck. That leaves money for some redecorating in the bathrooms. (And that garage needs work, too.)

After all, it's a first home, it doesn't have to be perfect. So I say, do a quick fix. Then send out the invitations, and get the party started! ;)

I can't imagine how I missed all those wonderful pictures of the outside! Much different that I was thinking, I thought older vintage bungalow. Your house is adorable. Scrap my idea for the central hall, it's totally inappropriate, but do remove the wall at the bottom of the staircase. Do a nice galley kitchen, you'd have 48" in the middle. After all, the rest of the passageways and doorways in the house are narrow, too. Add a counterheight or bar height table between that and the LR, perfect for hanging out at.

Regarding Code for bedroom size - I don't know what the Code is where Heathrli lives, but keep in mind that rooms that do not meet Code are usually grandfathered in while new rooms will need to meet Code. One thing that I think is Code everywhere, is the need for at least one 3'x5' window in any room that could be used as a bedroom - that includes a Study or Den (or similar) that has a built-in closet. (Emergency access and can fit a stretcher, IIRC.)

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Edited to respond to Heathrli's question about what's different.

Refrigerator...You cannot put a non-built-in refrigerator against the wall like that. You need at least 12" to allow you to open the doors fully and to be able to remove bins, etc., for cleaning. You also want to be sure the door handle will not break the window on the adjacent wall if it bumps into the window (remember, the handle is probably higher than the sill, so while the sill might stop the door from hitting the window, it won't stop the handle). Even a true built-in would still need around 6", but not 12".

Multi-person Kitchen...You keep telling us you want this Kitchen to work for more than one person, yet your layout only allows a one-person kitchen - only one person prepping -or- cooking -or- cleaning up. Only one of those activities can happen at the same time b/c all the zones are on top of each other or have no real workspace.

Workspace...the most important workspace is the Prep Zone workspace which works the best when b/w the sink and range. You need a bare minimum of 36", with at least 42" highly recommended. Right now, the largest expanse of workspace is b/w the refrigerator and sink with the DW in the middle of it. It looks like it's, maybe, 33" wide.

Aisles...You don't have enough space b/w the table and the end of the counter and it's too close to the range. You don't have enough room b/w the table and the sofa.

Something else to keep in mind is that the range in the Cooking Zone should be the area most protected from through-traffic.

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If you haven't already, please read the Kitchen Design FAQ threads. They will help you better understand what we are telling you.

FAQ -- Kitchen work zones, what are they?: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

FAQ -- Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

FAQ -- How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

Looking for layout help? Memorize this first: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

Here's another option. It potentially provides 3 different Prep Zones, although only the primary has water. It does use the bottom Living Room as part of the Kitchen as well as table space. The table could be bigger, but I wanted to leave some space for the entry.

Layout #3:

Zone Map:

Multi-person Kitchen...

• There is one primary Prep Zone with plenty of workspace (42"), located b/w the sink & range, and follows the workflow of Refrigerator --> Prep Zone/Sink --> Cooking Zone/Range.
• There is a secondary Prep Zone on the peninsula that can be accessed from either side of the peninsula. The front would only be usable if no one is standing at the range.
• There is a tertiary Prep Zone across the aisle. While it has 42" of workspace, it is only 16.5" deep, so it's not ideal, but definitely usable if you want to put a coffee maker there, or if someone is making a sandwich, etc.
• The Cleanup Zone is to the left of the sink. It would be nice to have a bit more space, but at least it's not shared with the Prep Zone.
• The Cooking Zone has plenty of landing space on the peninsula as well as around 18" to the right (15" cab + 3" filler b/f the corner). The 18" or so b/w the corner and the range provide enough "standing room" as well w/o being crowded by the peninsula.

Dish/Food/Utility Storage...

• There are two 30" wide x 15" deep tall cabinets across the aisle. This will provide a lot of storage for both food and dishes/glasses.
• For food storage, shallow pantry shelves are best. Deeper shelves lead to lost items - even in pull out pantry cabinets. 12" to 15" seem to be the "ideal".
• The tall cabinet across from the DW would be ideal for dishes & glasses b/c it takes the dish storage out of the Prep & Cooking Zones and allows someone to be unloading the DW while others are prepping/cooking. It also keeps someone who is setting the table out of the work zones during meal prep. The 15" deep shelves are also deep enough for platters and wider dinner plates that might not fit in standard 12" D upper cabinets.
• The other tall cabinet would be ideal for food storage - near the Prep & Cooking Zones, but not in the Zones.
• The counter b/w the tall cabinets acts as landing space as well as additional workspace.
• The tall pantry next to the refrigerator can be used as either another pantry (a tall pullout pantry) or as a tall utility cabinet for broom, Swifter, etc., storage.

Other...

• There's a MW drawer in the peninsula facing the end instead of into the Kitchen. This orientation allows someone to be using the MW while others are prepping and/or cooking without that someone to get in the way of the others.
• There's a 27" wide cabinet turned 90 degrees to face the table space. This gives you the best use of space - better than corner susans, corner drawers, or voiding a corner (especially with the range so close). It also doesn't require 12" of space on the inside peninsula where the MW drawer is and needs 24".
• There's a 48" round table that will seat at least 4, maybe even 5. It can be moved around for the best setup as needed.
• The peninsula has room for two seats. There's enough room as well b/w the peninsula and the table for people to be seated at both locations.

That looks nice. And, if the right side room is the dining but it does seem odd to have the first room be a dining room, the front bedroom could be opened up completely for a den by removing the closets, and it would be separated from the DR by the center load-bearing wall, with access via the bedroom hall and the foyer. Leave the back bedroom as it was originally.

This loses a bedroom but, if you have roommates, gives an added entertaining or work space for someone, and an "away" room when you get married.

@buehl - on the 7' wall, where the sink is in the existing plan, shouldn't that be deeper? Because the existing plan has 2' deep cabinets there. Other than that, I like the plan, I don't think you even need to move the window.

Update, again: Yes, I see where you're talking about. Yes, I made the doorway wider! It opens up access and pulls the rooms together better. Yes, the steps would be wider. I was focusing on the Kitchen

I think buehl took out the little wall by the back hall so the doorway is wider. Those two steps would be wider,too, right?

Sure. I didn't mean that I think cabinets should go on that wall, however. I meant that the whole "niche" at that end looked like it was gone. If bpathome is right, then the opening to the back hall/ basement stairs is wider, correct? But why spend money on that, since you might run into code issues, i.e. you might need a handrail on both sides, etc. Whereas if you leave the niche in place, you can put a cabinet in that corner, and the shallow cabinets can have counter space for plug in stuff like toasters. Just saying. :)

See my updated response above.

There are details to work out there, but I think it will work. My focus right now is the Kitchen layout.

The niche isn't gone, it's just opened up on the Kitchen wall.

See, here's the thing. In a lot of jurisdictions, once the stair treads are wider than a certain limit, usually 36", you have to have a rail on each side. If that's the case here, there's only a stub of wall on one side to do it, and there may not be a good attachment point on the other side. You can bolt the assembly to the treads, but some inspectors will balk at this, and if those treads aren't current code legal as it is, you end up with a big expensive problem.

Whereas, if you leave it alone, you're likely grandfathered in, save your money, and spend it on other stuff. I'm just saying, why not pick your battles, live to fight another day...

OK, just make it 36" wide instead of 42" wide. That would be better than the less than 24" it appears to be now.

I wonder if it could be a pony wall, so that the railing has an anchor but it feels a little more open to that back hall that with a full-height?

That should work, but only if the inspector cooperates. You see, the moment you touch anything in a house, the inspector could force you to bring the surrounding area up to code. So opening up that doorway at all, even a tiny bit, could mean changing those treads down to the great room, and you just don't want to go there, since you might not have any space to spare, to make them legal, if they are too steep or too narrow.

You would really want to discuss this with the inspector beforehand, and then have trust that he keeps his word when it comes time to pass the work. Sometimes, an inspector will tell you one thing, then later check the code and realize they have made a mistake, after you've spent the money! In some places they won't even give you a commitment in writing. That's why I'm saying, maybe let sleeping dogs lie.

Something that bothers me more than the kitchen layout...

If you and your bf plan to marry in a year or so, why are YOU buying this property ? Why aren't you buying a property together? Why would you be the one living with housemates until he moves in? Is there a reason the two of you can't/aren't buying a home together when your marriage plans are more solidified?

If you take on this property and the marriage does not happen, could you afford it? With or without the changes you would like to make?

That's a discussion for different thread. For what it's worth, I think Heathrli's doing the right thing. I would not buy anything together until married. You don't want to be saddled with a jointly-owned property if the relationship breaks up - usually with at least one person upset/disgruntled - that can lead to legal nightmares.

At least with a marriage, you have a legal standing if things go badly.

Like I said, though, that's not really a topic for this thread (or, probably any of our business.) Granted, it's something for her to think about - but it's her decision and it sounds like she's already got it handled.

++++++++++++++

But, why do you think she can't afford the home? Many, many women are very well able to afford a home without a husband. Just b/c she mentions renting it out, etc., does not mean she cannot afford to purchase her own home! I owned my own home b/f I was married - I definitely did not need a man to help me pay for it!

@llucy

Doesn't seem that outlandish to me. My husband bought our place alone before we got married. He had the means and desire to be a homeowner, and I did not. (He'd gotten lucky with some stock sales just as the housing market tanked, so it was a really good time to buy, and he suddenly had the means.) The mortgage was very similar to what we were already paying in rent for the apartment where we lived together. This was an apartment he easily afforded alone before he met me, so when he met me and I moved in, my suddenly covering half the rent was just a bonus.

So he bought our condo by himself, but the understanding was that I would live there too (so he didn't buy anything I wouldn't want to live in) and would still be contributing the same monthly amount to the mortgage that I had been contributing to our rent.

And I don't know OP's situation, but at least for me and my husband, we knew we were going to get married aaaaages (years) before we did or got engaged or did anything official. So we were making long-term life plans when he was still my boyfriend.

buehl - "At least with a marriage, you have a legal standing if things go badly."

That is my point.

"But, why do you think she can't afford the home? Many, many women are very well able to afford a home without a husband. "

Because she stated she was going to take on housemates to help pay the mortagage and when her husband moved in HE would pay that share.

Jillus,

The difference is your bf knew he didn't have to rely on housemates to pay his mortgage whether you lived there or not - or married him or not.

Many people buy homes that they can pay for, but that would make them house-poor. So, to free up money, they take in housemates. Or, they just want to find ways to pay for the home w/as little money out of their pockets as possible - for savings, for travel, even just b/c they want to.

++++++++++++++++

OK, I'm done on this topic b/c it's diverting the discussion from the real point of this thread - the Kitchen layout and, secondarily, the overall house layout.

Jillius, the stairs idea was very cool and would open the house to a lot more flexibility! I'm just worried about the costs. A quick Google search suggests $7-10k to move stairs which would already be half the kitchen budget I was a lotting. :/ Your responses to the other ideas made VERY good points I didn't think of, thanks for sharing!!

buehl, my agent was talking about not needing a formal dining table. He said most people (in this area) are opting for bars/peninsulas/islands as seating areas now. But again, I prefer having a dining table for more formal gatherings.. All my layouts have a refrigerator, not a refrigerator drawer (I didn't even know those existed!).

bpathome, I like the idea of creating another hallway down to the sunroom, so there'd be 2 paths of getting around the house! Why did you later say to scrap that idea?

Carrie B, yes, I still think this house is a good deal. I could probably still rent it out (in it's current condition) for $1500-1800 just because the location is so prime. We've done a lot of analysis and budgeting which is where we came up with the numbers in an earlier post for what we'd like to do.. I was just wondering if I could find a "perfect" layout within that budget (doesn't seem like it at this point so I might have to settle for a close-but-not-dream kitchen).

scrappy25, ohhh that's a great point about covering up the kitchen window and removing access to the deck. I didn't think about the access.. Your kitchenette is so cute! Couldn't I follow the same idea except (mine would be inverted to yours):

• add/move a window next to the fridge
• since mine is 3ft longer on long wall, add a range on the same side as sink
• add 1' to the peninsula and still maintain same walkway clearance as you have

lharpie, oh your kitchen is nice! That does look like plenty of space! Hmm this is making me much more hopeful for a "roomy" galley. :) So is that galley area 8'9" from wall to wall?

scone911, I agree that maybe I'll just knock down that wall first and see what I have to work with. If everything is smooth and easy, maybe I'll pursue more re-structuring, otherwise I'll probably do a galley. Your guess is absolutely right! I want an open and sociable kitchen/living space.

llucy, without getting into too much personal detail, he is currently in a year lease and I'm SO sick of renting; it's a complete waste of my money, so I wanted to buy a house and at least be investing instead of wasting for the next year... and I'm not waiting for him to do it! :) Also buying a house before marriage wouldn't be keen with his family, who are very traditional. Yes, I could still afford this house without him. Getting roommates just gives me MORE room for renovations, in addition to what I've budgeted for myself. I won't be relying on them.

buehl, when I was comparing mine and Jillius' design I meant these 2:

cause I thought the big reason people said my U-style (right photo) won't work is cause of the peninsula being too close to the opposite wall? If I have a 4' wide peninsula and 4' wide aisle, is that not OK?

Note my layout above is also assuming I'd remove the 2 original walls by the stairs.

Was your response (esp. regarding the multi-person and workspace) in regard to this U-shaped layout or the galley layout I posted right after?

Your layout and analysis are always remarkable! You define the areas to a TEE and it's incredible. I feel so wrong for commenting on your layouts cause I know they're probably better than anything I'd ever think of myself, but here are my thoughts on Layout #3:

• I'm worried there might not be enough counter space, which I really want.
• Will all the appliances being on 1 wall be inconvenient for multiple people to work? e.g. if person A is working at the sink, and person B is at the stove and needs something from the fridge, they'll have to walk around each other. Maybe this isn't such a big deal.. ?
• I agree with bpathome that it's odd for the first room to be the dining room, IMO. I would really like the front room to be a living space cause I want that cooking/social environment. Maybe I could do a more comfortable dining space like scone911 suggested earlier.

I like scone911's idea of leaving the niche and fitting more cabinets, and maybe even counter space? Then putting a counter-sitting pantry on top, next to the fridge?

I'm starting to retract from my requirement that I want at least 4'6" of aisle space (lharpie's galley has made me realize maybe I don't need such a wide aisle space). I think I'm going to go over your original galley layouts again, with a dining table at the end. I think I would rather have a galley with a work triangle, than an L-shape with all appliances on the same wall.

It sounds like she has a solid financial plan that is flexible and makes sense for now and after she gets married (the entertaining major structural changes that won't benefit future sales/rentals part excluded - but haven't we all done that? I know I wanted a lofted kitchen ceiling....). Sheesh, if I could buy a house at these prices where I live the incentives would definitely have been different and I would have bought earlier (just looked up my neighborhood and it has surpassed 600/sf average...ugh!). There is certainly a window where you can afford it but it would sure be nice to have that extra $700/month, especially if you want to do a bunch of renovations - that's a great way to help pay for it!

But back to the kitchen layout- Buele's looks great and meets a lot of key desires while being a functional happy kitchen for cooking in. I do worry about the loss of space in the LR area for a couch - you'll really just have room for that dining table with the peninsula. That may mean more corridor traffic between kitchen and the addition for when people are over but at least the aisle is wide!

Oye, I'm all out of order too - need to refresh! Yes - I just measured - my galley area is 8'10". The kitchen in general is very funny shaped with weird bump outs here and there and has 4 doors, but that is the main cooking area width.

I think people are trending to less formal living, but still want an area for a table to eat at when having friends over. It is a less formal space open to the kitchen like you have planned. Your great room is large and nice, so you don't really needs a living room. Whenever we entertain everyone ends up at the table next to the kitchen. I've had 3 homes with a formal dining room that hardly ever got used. When we built our last home, we skipped the formal dining room for a more casual dining room open to the kitchen. I think you are on the right path to taking down the wall between the kitchen and front room.

Buehl's plan has 42" of primary prep space, and on top of that the space above the DW, on the peninsula, and across in the shallow space (which you'd probably use for the coffemaker/teakettle/cookie jar) I think you have puh-lenty of space. What do you have now in your rental? And people have to walk around each other all the time, it doesn't matter where the appliances are. It's a good plan. As for the back end of the kitchen, if you have full-depth cabinets there you won't be able to open the fridge door all the way. Maybe not a bit deal to grab the mayo, but when you need to pull the crisper drawer out especially to clean it, you need to be able to open the door more than 90 degrees. Remember, the fridge has a handle that needs clearance. Maybe you could put a 12-15" cabinet but you may prefer the elbow room, especially for people who come in from the sunroom. Think how cramped the kitchen is now; you want to change that.

Ya know, you could take out the door and most of the other two walls at the foot of the stairs; leaving the one corner because it's part of the load-bearing wall. But the other two are just there to close it off, right? Take it out and you have more open space. LOTS of room to move in and out of the kitchen.

and the downstairs would look like this:(the black line is the foot of the stairs according to you photo upthread)

Hmm, you could extend the center wall a bit to block the bathroom door from the living room. But you have work to do on that bathroom and it may resolve itself.

Pay no attention to the front bedroom without walls, I was playing around with the idea of it being the front room/den.

bpathome, this is my kitchen now and I LOVE IT:

The flooring you see is 8' wide from edge to the stove, so I obviously couldn't fit this kitchen in the new house. :( We actually just cooked tonight and I love this layout cause I usually work to the left of the stove, he works on the right, and we just never get in each other's way. The area next to the sink is what I use for cleanup. I don't use the corner counter spaces (that I marked X) and usually just fill with small appliances. This layout provides me with plenty of counter and cabinet space (some cabinets are actually empty!).

I also like the current size of my fridge and sink. But the new house will be upgraded to SS.

I need to go back and check out all of buehl's layouts again and compare the dimensions. You're right, she probably covers enough counter space and I'm just not envisioning it properly!

We "laid" out what a 4' galley would feel like in my (rental) kitchen and it's actually not as bad as I thought. It's not my dream but it's definitely something I'm considering more now..

YES I've been trying to explain that for awhile now - I am seriously considering taking out the walls by the steps. It's a corner wall so my GC was concerned it carries some load, but removing them would open up the kitchen so much more! I'm talking about removing the red:

I wasn't sure what you meant with the cabinets you drew in Buehl's layout, on the back wall? They're in a u-shape.. are those cabinets or just counters? How are they u-shape? :)

WHAT IF

I leveled the back landing/hall area, and added steps coming from the basement and added steps going down to the sunroom?

This would allow bumping the 7' portion of the wall to 8'. Does this open any possibilities of layouts or is this still not enough room?

Sorry Heathrli - I was looking at the wrong layout. I was talking about the one in the post that starts out with,

"Here is a galley that would provide me with enough walking space where it wouldn't feel cramped or crowded. The cabinets by the stairs are 1" deep.

Is this what everybody thinks is best?"

[I really wish Houzz had kept the date/time stamp that GW used to have - no confusion about which message people were referring to b/c you just posted the date & time of the message. This "21 hours ago", etc., is ridiculous!]

Well, I'd love to have your current rental kitchen's workspace.

The u-shape there at the back was an incomplete effort on my part to make that shallower. It would make good shallow storage, but I like buehl's idea of a pullout broom closet better. Someone had one on here, with their brooms, dustpan, Swiffer, duster, etc, all hanging on hooks inside. Where is that picture?

I've also alternately filled in floor of that same hallway and moved steps around. However, I'd been doing it under the assumption that if two steps were added to the basement staircase, those steps would have to be in front of the existing staircase footprint, like this (in purple):

Is that not the case? Is there room inside the existing staircase footprint for two more steps (as you drew it)?

The reason that truly matters is if you were going to have a 24" deep counter running where the existing kitchen sink counter is, you couldn't add two steps the basement staircase in front of the existing staircase footprint or you wouldn't be left with enough room for a doorway between the kitchen and that hallway.

If the extra two stairs for the basement staircase would fit inside the existing staircase footprint, that would open up a possibility I rejected earlier.

@heathrli - Yes, opening up the staircase and rearranging the back steps would certainly be a great idea, if you can do it. What you need to know is, will the code allow it, and how do you take up the load, if you remove load-bearing walls. Also the money, obviously.

(BTW, if you add two steps from the basement, do you still have enough headroom at the new level? Two steps is about 12" - 14", so your ceiling height is reduced.)

Now, your GC is the person who should know all about this, and should know if the local code officer is reliable. It's hard for us here, far away and not in your jurisdiction, to give definitive advice.

So I'd say it's time to go over this with your GC in detail. He may not want to get involved with load bearing issues, because it's a little more time consuming for him, versus a simple change out. It might also mean getting some drawings from an engineer. That's not too hard, but it takes more time and more money.

But is it really worth it? Changing that back area isn't going to magically make all the constraints go away, you still have a small kitchen that "wants" to be a galley. Sometimes it's better to go with the flow, rather than fighting the house and trying to make it something it's not. There will be more houses in your future, so this isn't your last chance to remodel.

Alternatively, if you decide to stay in the house, you can do a simple galley now, and come back later, adding some space connecting the kitchen to the great room. You could make that "phase two" if you like. Remember, it doesn't have to be perfect, and it doesn't have to be done all at once.

I haven't been keeping up with your thread, but I enjoyed playing around with your floor plan. I'll post in case it sparks ideas. My goal was to try to not move any major structural walls nor the plumbing for the upstairs bathroom, trying to create a kitchen open to the addition and adding a master suite and a laundry room. It's undoubtedly a large budget, I have a habit of cutting and pasting away other people's money :-) Just for fun and food for thought...

There are a couple of other code issues I forgot to mention. Sorry to be a party pooper!

Generally you can't have a door opening directly toward a flight of stairs. The concern is, you open the door, smack into someone, they fall back and break their neck. This might (or might not, you have to check) nix the idea of changing the basement stairs, because the basement door is involved. I wouldn't be surprised if the existing stairs are illegal by current code.

The front "bedroom" has very high windows. If they are more than 44" off the floor, and neither has a five foot square clear opening, then it's not a legal bedroom. IIRC, if it is illegal, and you rent it out anyway, you can be liable if someone is injured, and I imagine you'd have trouble with your insurance. So If you do want to use it as a bedroom, I would replace the front window right away. That would look a lot better, too-- right now it's quite unbalanced, like a face with one huge eye and one tiny eye.

BTW, I thought of another way around the tiny back opening that doesn't involve the staircase at all, but you might want to wait for phase two. In brief, just add a mudroom / back entry with a wide opening to the great room and the kitchen. Essentially, just extend the great room across the back of the house, using the same roof line. So, instead of a deck, you have an extra room. That's not cheap at all, figure at least $150 per square foot, on a crawl space. But it solves all the other issues without disrupting the whole house, so you could do it and still live in the place. HTH!

EVERYBODY - thanks so much for all the feedback and tireless discussions! I LOVE IT!

Some of you made great points about adding stairs to the back area and whether there was even room. Unfortunately I don't have photos or dimensions so I'm working off pure memory on what I could do back there (and my memory sucks). Once I get into the house, I'll do a better inspection and then come back to this thread (I'm not losing hope yet!).

For now, I'm starting to agree a galley is going to be the best option. I think moving the kitchen all-together is out of my scope and most likely budget. But STAY TUNED!

YOU GUYS ALL ROCK!

Until then, I'm going to start another post about my terrible bathroom... bahaha.

Please post lots of pictures, and I urge you to go down to planning to get the permit history of the house.

There's another house on the same street (bungalow, same sq. ft, built 11 years earlier) that is listed for $100k more than what I bought my house for. It's completely updated except unfinished basement. There are 3 other comps too listed much higher and in a worse location (right next to highway). This is 1 example why I have confidence in investing in my house and still getting a good return on it! :)

I'll keep everybody updated! Lots of photos coming soon! I'm still open to other ideas too if anybody is still interested. I have 2 cabinet companies I've asked quotes from who are also working on their own designs I think.

Is the ceiling height here (red arrow) the same height as the kitchen ceiling?

The sloped part of the ceiling (the underside of the upper staircase) isn't actually preventing anything. You can put two extra steps in front of the existing basement stairs, and you'll have enough headspace for them. That's just how stacked staircases like yours work. With each step up you take on the basement stairs, the upper staircase rises the same amount above your head.

The real question is, if you make that entire hallway floor flush with the kitchen floor, will the ceiling height in the hallway be tall enough. My guess is yes because the hallway is within the footprint of the original house (not part of the addition), so it should have the same ceiling height as the rest of the original first floor. However, it'd be good to confirm.

Hey Jillius!

I believe the ceiling height (where you pointed) is the same as the kitchen, but I'll double check when I get into the house. Good point about the head space remaining the same due to the design of the staircases.. duh, I should've known that. :) I'm struggling to wrap my head around what I'd do here though.. level the floor, add 2 steps (up) from the basement, move the kitchen doorway over, and add 2 steps (down) from the kitchen to the great room?

The benefit is that this increases the 7' width to 8'.

However, since the stairs and exterior walls constrain any more opening, changing the back stairs area probably isn't enough for a U or L-shape, huh?

I just hate facing walls while I'm in the kitchen (cooking, cleaning, and/or prepping). But I know galley makes the most sense..

Here are actual measurements I took (red are walls I'm contemplating removing).

Here is another view of the backstair case area, while standing on the basement steps:

The brown skinny door on the left next to the kitchen steps is a closet/pantry thing.

View from standing in the great room looking toward kitchen:

View in kitchen:

Hey everybody!

I want to provide an update cause I know a lot of people put in thoughtful time into this thread, and I super appreciated everybody's input!

We've FINALLY gotten to a point where we have a fully functioning kitchen and just need to finish a few more tasks (backsplash, trim, fixtures, cab corner filler pcs, microwave.. wow, a lot more than a couple I guess! haha).

We did everything ourselves, except the counter install!! :D

Also, we decided not to move any exterior structures around to save on costs (e.g. windows, doors), so we designed around what we had.

I still agree my kitchen is best suited for galley but I just couldn't resist.. I LOVE my peninsula and it allows a place to sit and eat while I still figure out a dining area! It's definitely a small kitchen but I've really enjoyed using it so far!

Again I just wanted to share since so many people put in so much time to help me, and I thought everybody deserved an update. You guys are awesome and thank you again!

You may say that your kitchen is small but holy cow that granite is stunning!!!. There is nothing small about its impact on your kitchen. Beautiful.

Beautiful! What is the granite? I had a little peninsula like that in my last house and loved it.

Thank you blfenton and amyfgib!

The granite is called Silver Cloud, and a lighter variation of it is called Viscont/Viscount White. :)

Here are a few more views of it:

There is actually an entire thread of it on Houzz!

The peninsula is small but I still love it! I've already used it a bunch!! :)

Very pretty!