Hi Mama. Yes, aware of all STPP's Magic beyond just softening. My point of bringing up our Mieles with built in softener is just that many of us are approaching this with the exact same water hardness yet have different results. Not saying STPP is moot just because our water is soft. :)

I used to really like Cascade Complete Gel and liked the first Tabs or solid blocks that Cascade put out. I can't remember what they called those.

Mainly what I was talking about, at least thinking in my mind, was the chlorine brands of the past when I said "What we were used to cause we knew no better clean back in those days"(60's 70's) were Cascade, Finish, Electrasol, DW All or Calgonite . I'm not trying to make anything out of this cause I don't care what anyone uses or tries, but for me the bleach ones (old kind) are not as good as todays formula's. Maybe its my water, machine etc. Todays Cascade Extra Bleach Gel really works well but I try not use it much after I had the mess before with the older gels. I even used Sears DW detergent at one time. It had a very clean scent but not perfume scented but it did have a tendency to suds. It was a very fine powder similar to baking soda. Some of you might have tried it also?

Use what you like and enjoy!!!! Was just adding my thoughts.

It's possible to reduce dosage too much, even with soft water, such that there aren't enough cleaning agents to do the job. I use 3 tablespoons of the chlorinated/phosphated Cascade for the main wash dose. I'm on well-water of approx 9 to 11 grains hardness. My dishwasher takes 0.8 gals of water per fill.

Dadoes, that's good information, thank you. I have some high-heat searing ahead of me tonight and will have some dirty cookware. I'll increase to 2 TBS tonight and see what happens :) It's fun experimenting.

Sparky, don't get me wrong..I didn't think you were stepping on toes or saying any wrong, your opinion is valued.

Alex sorry i didnt mean it to sound as if you didnt know what all stpp does, lol

I actually ment that even in soft water some people have more or less of other chemicals in their water lol.

I'm using 2.5 TBS. tonight in my Dishwasher. We'll see how it goes! God knows I have ENOUGH, I do not need to ration it. LOL

I just started it with 2. It's on, Larsi!

Pink: I didnt think anything about your or anyone else's statements. We all have our own opinions---that's all my post are just opinion. Sometimes I do have trouble typing what is actually in my mind LOL.

Results: 2 TBS of Cascade was certainly more effective than the single spoon I did on the first night. My All-Clad came out much shinier and with only one corner a bit hazy. I think we're on to something here with dosage. I did notice that two of my wine glasses still had some marking around the edges from lips. I can't recall ever seeing this with the tabs before. Larsi - how was your 2.5 TBS?

Results: 2.5 TBS. of Cascade Fryer Boil Out seemed better, and once again the inside of my Miele dishwasher looks like 100's of little elves hand polished every inch of stainless. It is gleaming!!! I wish these same elves would hand polish every item being washed though!!

Again, I had a few items that were not cleaned. The worst was an All-Clad roasting pan that I used last night to roast a 6lb. chicken for 1.5 hours. This pan is now currently sitting on my kitchen sink with Dawn and hot water, trying to break thru the sticky, greasy residue that was left behind. Also, a Pyrex measuring cup looks murky and streaky...but came clean with hot water and some detergent!

I cannot figure out how this Cascade powder can leave my dishwasher interior so insanely polished, clean and shiny....yet not leave everything else the same?!

There is however NO scent left in the machine, or on any item...including plastics. This is really awesome!!

I use the Cascade "Complete" powder for small loads or really big ones when I need to supplement the single-dose pod. I'll only buy the Complete version because it is the best-rated powder (of the few powders rated) at CR magazine. Honestly, this powder is worth the money. It cleans great in our Bosch DW.

Has anyone tried the Miele Dishwasher tabs? They are more expensive versus other brands. So far I've had good luck with any dishwasher detergent. My dogs pre-rinse everything so a normal wash and sanitary rinse works for me. But they say you get what you pay for, so Miele is the best?

1. Cascade Platinum Pacs .34 cents per tab
2. Cascade Complete Pacs .27 cents per tab
3. Finish Powerball Tabs .20 cents per tab
4. Miele Dishwasher tabs .50 cents per tab

I have the Miele Dishwasher tabs. In my experience Cascade Platinum>Method>Finish Quantum>Cascade Boilout>Miele.

They are not worth the price, IMO. If you'd like to try some, I'd be happy to send you a sample.

I found the Miele tabs to work quite well, but they are not extraordinary. I used them exclusively for several years. They are expensive, yes! @ALEX...you rate the Miele tabs below Cascade Boil out powder? Wow, our water and Miele machines must be quite different. I found the Miele tabs to work quite well, but I get tired of ordering them and paying the price!

I found for tabs....Somat 10, Ecover and Method Smarty Dish tabs (not the plastic wrapped powder ones though) work very, very well!!

I admitted to Alex earlier this morning, that I bought a bag of Cascade Platinum pods this morning. You know, because I only have a f'ing 5 year supply of Cascade Fryer Boil out powder and about 4,568 Somat 10 tabs :-O I have to say these Cascade Platinum tabs smell VERY close to Cascade powder of the 70's, 80's and 90's (sorry Alex and Mitch..you both are too young to remember this ;) lol

Larsi - did you use the previous version of the Miele tabs or those that are produced today? They went through a reformulation a few years back. I think they are just fine -- maybe on par with Cascade Fryer Boilout. It's hard to tell because no two loads are the same. I really should have put my ordering into tiers rather than an actual rating. I think Miele and Boilout are probably around the same. Splitting hairs.

You'll love the Cascade pods! I think they work phenomenally. And you're right -- I don't remember what the scent was all those decades ago :p But don't be so sure about Mitch. He probably has a special closet full of that stuff!! xoxoxo

Alex...I have used the original Miele DW tabs from it's inception, to the most current version. I found both to work quite well. No complaints at all. It is one of those products where it does everything it should do, there is nothing wrong with it, nothing makes me not like it....yet I do not love it. It is like Method laundry detergent!! Works fine, does a good job, but there is no love from me!

This is certainly a very interesting discussion!

Previously, I used Finish powerball tabs and had an issue with "fishy" smelling dishes. I think it might be because I'm using too much detergent for the load. I'm looking for a good powder. Has anyone tried the Cascade Advanced powder available at Costco? It's on sale now and I'm thinking about trying it.

I do not know of a good powder other than the Boil-out, which you can see from the discussion I'm only moderately impressed with. I have immense respect for powders, though, in the ability to control dose and also split between prewash and main. I told Larsi earlier today that my next endeavor will be to take a large bag of Method Smarty tabs and pulverize them to a powder in my Vitamix. They aren't compartmentalized like the "pacs" so there should be no danger in doing so, and I should be left with a nice powder. I let you know how it works out!

I Will jump into this later. But there should be no probs crushing Smarty Tabs...I opened all my Dropps because my detergent door won't open with them in it...lol

Thanks Alex and Mama!

I read on the Appliance forum that someone there splits the method tabs and just uses 1/2 per load with fine results.?

Oh yes. On a load without cookware I often do this. They are tough little buggers to break, though.

I Have the Smarty Tabs but haven't used them yet. But I will need 2 in my machine with the water amount. I'll have to try them soon.

Everyone gets such different results with the same detergent. ..isn't it GREAT!! Imagine if we all like and used the same detergent, how BORING.

Sparky I often wonder when people break detergent tabs in half that sure their dishes may be getting clean, but could they be under dosing their machines? Gotta keep them inner parts clean also.

Sparky, keep sharing your thoughts..we respect them.

Mama you HAVEN'T tried the Smarty Tabs yet? I tear in my driveway with barely enough time to let my garage door open to pull my car in and immediately start whichever new product I just bought or got in the mail! I admire your restraint-but I am waiting with bated breath to read your results!! This is a great informative thread!

Jean, ROFL I just bought them tonight, I forgot to add that. I remember seeing them at Giant Eagle (grocery chain) and after seeing them mentioned a few times I told hubs today ** hun lets stopin at the Giant Eagle since its not out of our wsy and we can get some of those wonderful sugar cookies from their bakery that you love** he was all for it, while in there I needed Dawn and very sneeky like I put the Smartys in the buggy..he never noticed, he was way to busy eyeballing some pretty woman LMAO. Than we go to Walmart, he wsnted new black jeans for work, yes he insistson the cheap black jeans there. BUT he says ** what kind of detergent do you have to keep these from fading...I almost said Cheer but instead said not a darn detergent for black omg he headed to the isle..hehe he looked around and said what's best, now I was down to 3 Persil Caps and I love these, so I looked around, grabbed my heart and said OMG when did walmart get the Persil Caps, oh this is wonderful Mike here's what we need for your jeans...so he bought a double pack..haha...than of course I used the same ploy to buy more Downy...worked like a charm..I'm so devious.

MamaP...if Mike EVER comes across our posts on this Forum!!! OMG, your ass is grass, and he's gonna be the lawnmower!! He will find every one of your secrets and manipulations!!! LMAO!!

You are so clever Mama!! I may need to borrow a few of these! My hubs said what do you want for Valentine's Day? I said Detergent!! But I don't think he will get what I want.

Larsi, the beautiful thing is he hasn't the foggiest notion on how to use a computer or the internet, even his phone is a basic old skool flip phone. I could type this beside him but he couldn't read it without glasses and he won't wear them at home..I could sit next to him and tell him you know your a real A hole and he wouldn't hear me...I've done it tons of times..mind you I was only testing to see if he could hear me ...lmao

We've been married for something like 38 years, I think , so I've earned the right to call him a name hehe

Alex Chicago,

I ran a load of dishes this afternoon and realized when filling the detergent that I *seriously* overstated my dosage above. Normal dose for the main wash is 3 teaspoons, not 3 tablespoons. I got mentally crossed-up with using a tablespoon for measuring STPP and laundry powder vs. a teaspoon for the dishwasher. Ooopsie!

Dadoes, Thank you for the follow-up. While 3 TBS did seem like a lot of detergent, it forced me to question how much I was using and I think that was a worthwhile exercise. Given the long cycle time, lower water pressure, and lower water volume of my contemporary machine, I've deduced that today's enzyme + non-phosphate detergents work better than the bleach + phosphates of yesterday. That said, my next endeavor is to determine whether there is any value in adding STPP to modern formulations.

Over the years I've read your posts with fascination. You use two appliances that are, without a doubt, controversial to some: an HE top load and a dish drawer (correct me if I'm wrong). However, you report outstanding results and I've seen some photos to support this, so I take your posts to heart and look forward to continuing the experiments. Thanks for all you contribute!

I got a box of Finish lemon flavored powder yesterday and am trying a load right now with just 1 tsp of detergent. I did a google search about how much detergent to use and found a bunch of blogs as well as a NYT article talking about how we're using way too much detergent:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/your-money/13shortcuts.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Remember though there's such a thing as too little also lol.ya its always a balancing act.

With Finish powder you could probably used 1/2 cup. The last I used of that there wasn't much to it. Dishes about as dirty as when I started. Just dont have the punch of the pacs/pods.IMO

I also can't recommend Finish powder unless its spiked with a hefty dose of STPP. There's a Finish powder with phosphates on Amazon but I've never used it...I think our next test should be Bubble Bandit. .lol.

Sparky, i read the ingredient list for Finish powder and it has only one enzyme, amylase I think. Could be why it's lacking. Most of the reviews on the web site were negative.

Surprisingly, my dishes were perfectly clean. Here are the ingredients, which are very similar to Cascade:

Sodium Carbonate

Sodium Sulfate

Sodium Citrate

Water

Sodium Silicate

Sodium Carbonate Peroxide

Alcohols Ethoxylate

Sodium Polyacrylate

Tetraacetylethylenediamine (Bleach Catalyst)

Fragrance / Parfum

Subtilisin

Kaolin

Titanium Dioxide

Polyethylene glycol

Microcrystalline Cellulose

Amylase Enzyme

I count 2 enzymes in that...how many are in Cascade?

Greeny my chick..I'm glad the Finish powder worked for you...just what I always say what works for one doesn't work for everyone. .heck some things that work great for me don't work worth sh! T for others lol

There are two Mama. Here are Cascade's ingredients:

Sodium Carbonate

Sodium Sulfate

Water

Sodium Silicate

Sodium Percarbonate

Modified polyacrylate

Alcohol Alkoxylate

Polyethylene glycol

Hydrozincite (Etching Inhibitor)

Amine Cobalt Salt (Bleach Catalyst)

Protease Enzyme

Amylase Enzyme

Perfumes

SO the Finishpowder and Cascade both have 2 enzymes

Very similar...I haven't tried the Finish powder since I've increased my wash cycle..maybe it will work well for me also now. Lol

I'm not buying the Finish powder. I just have a boat load of D/W'er detergents...powders, gels, pods, pacs, tabs, with enzymes, with chlorine, with and without phosphates, US made, Euro made, ....liquids, powders, and tabs from days gone by..LOL...I-just-can't-buy-anymore- today. Tomorrow may be a different story lol.

I ran a full load with the Cascade Platinum last night. I used 2 pacs and turned the dial back to run 2 wash cycles and 1 rinse. I am very happy with the results as everything was completely clean. Next time I will use just 1 pack but I started this load with 1 and it the wash water didn't look like I had used even 1 pac. will be trying the Method Smarty Tabs on the next load!

Nice Jean, I'm guessing your machine like mine uses more water than modern machines? I don't really know how much water mine uses but I think I'll hand fill it and find out lol.

About turning the knob back..my son Matt stopped in and seen me do this and said mom thats a huge waste of water..lol...until he realized it was continuing to wash with its existing water and detergent, but still thinks if I have to do this I need a new machine. I told him flat out this one stays until it suffers total death or until I get my other 3 appliances paid off. Lol.

Glad you had good results with the Platinum Jean and will be looking forward to your Smarty Tab review.

I like my dishwasher but I have envy over the newer on especially with the stainless steel interiors. Mama I'm sure our dw's are about the same and use more water. Mine is a JetCLean. I'm thinking around 10 years old. You have a Matt, too! That's my brother's name and we call him Damnit! Actually it's Mathew Damon Damnit Dillon-Damnit for short!!

LOL Jean. Yep I actially have a Matthew, Michael and Mark...you will never believe their birthdays and they were all natural delivery no planned c section to blame the dates on...September 12'th.. & November 12'th....and December 12'th...my mom joked about missing a grandchild for October so my sister delivered her eldest son October 12'th.

Wow! That is incredible! Lucky number 12!

WEird dates in my family..my brothers were born 16 months apart and died 16 months apart...CREEPY.

Ok, 1 tsp of Finish lemon powder didn't cut it. My coffee mugs have a bit of a coffee stain inside. Doing a load now with 2 tsp.