"In fact, I don't consider any of the existing posts to be rude."

Not rude really, just somewhat sarcastic in a "what a stupid question" kind of way. And I'm not referring to all the comments, just a few. It's just my opinion, but that can be somewhat off-putting to new posters and I don't find it surprising when they make a quick exit.

That's the thing. There are a lot of people who are new or inexperienced with the internet. They are not accustomed to online conversations like GW, where interactions get blunt and abrasive on a regular basis. Posting one' s first thread on the internet can be unsettling for a lot of people, believe it or not. If they receive less than friendly, helpful responses ... can't say as I blame them for not posting back and I don't know why anyone would expect them to.

Not rude really, just somewhat sarcastic in a "what a stupid question" kind of way. And I'm not referring to all the comments, just a few.

It is a stupid question. How are we going to be able to answer her? We cant. In her last thread I answered her with a vague answer because that is the best we can do. Then she proceeds to ask the same question again in a new thread. People need to learn forum etiquette if they want to use them. Dont double post and if you want a real answer you need to give enough info. Back and forth exchange is expected as well, dont just dump a question then let it sit there if people do try to help you.

It might be a stupid question to you but a simple, general question to others. OP is a layperson. They don't understand what they ask and they don't know how vague their question is until they get feedback.

But I guess that's why I find THIS thread particularly frustrating (but I'm still not angry at the OP, just frustrated). It isn't her first attempt at posting. The other thread was exactly the same question. I don't understand why she wouldn't have learned from that experience and attempted to be at least a little more specific with this thread.

And I feel like there were more posts by this person a few weeks ago. I could be wrong and there isn't anything listed in their profile so if they did exist, maybe they got so heated that they had to be totally deleted. Or I could be mixing them up with someone else.

Again, I'm not trying to blame or shame or ridicule the OP for anything, I'm just trying to let her know (if she's still reading) WHY she might be getting some of the responses that she's getting. I thinks it's helpful to understand both sides.

"People need to learn forum etiquette if they want to use them."

Not sure if I agree that sarcasm or ridicule is the way to whip them into compliance with "forum etiquette." Are sarcasm and ridicule included in proper forum etiquette? I don't think there is any way to stop people from asking what you consider to be "stupid questions." It might shut up one poster, but someone else will surely ask another "stupid" question tomorrow or the next day.

Maybe she lost the other thread or even forgot what site or forum she had posted on. Happens all the time with newbies to the internet.

Who knows, she might be inquiring what others have paid for remodeling because she already received an estimate for $1,000,000, that her stupid, cheap little self did pay for, and which is now sitting in her sad little hands. Reality check. Price gouging detector.

But even a 'stupid question' is totally fine if you are willing to answer questions to turn the 'stupid question' into a totally legitimate situation that people can help you with. Or at least engage in the conversation to come to the conclusion that it's not possible to answer a question in a meaningful way.

None of the threads started out being all that bad until it started being obvious that the OP wasn't going to participate. Then the responses might have gotten slightly more sarcastic.

Lol, maybe she was at work and couldn't look at the thread all day, then came back and thought "um, never mind." She certainly isn't the first and only poster to leave their own thread without responding!!! It happens all the time, even in threads where there is no controversy!!

And it looks like the OP has now deleted her profile altogether. I
clicked on her name and it goes to "Page Not Found". So I guess we can
safely say that she's not coming back.

Oh well. Hopefully she's learned something and might be a little more successful with her questions on other forums (or this one if she signs up under a different name).

Or maybe she's learned that internet forums are just not a place for her and she needs to get her advice in a less blunt way without the threat of trolls bouncing in and upsetting her.

Either way, I wish her the best.

No doubt she is really impressed with this group, lol.

It's been a fun debate nonetheless.

nellytoast-

We're in heated agreement on that! And you're right, I did state two different points of view. I think the first time I posted I was really frustrated because I didn't think it was a realistic request, but I later reconsidered and thought that more details could at least lead to some rough ballparking. But thanks for catching that and reminding me that late night posting after my second glass of wine does not always produce my finest commentary... :-)

All I know is that when you ask someone a question at a service counter and they ask you for more info so they can help you, you dont button up and run and hide behind a rock if you really want help. That isnt just forum etiquette, its just plain common sense. What is upsetting is not only do people post these doorstop baby posts and run off, and then to top it off they come back later and do it twice when they dont get an answer they want.

If someone treated me like this at a service counter, I would absolutely leave and take my business elsewhere.

If you engaged someone in a conversation and then randomly walked off in the middle of it what would that person think of you? Same thing here. Is it that much of us to ask for some back and forth and closure...? Not really.

The difference being that the person at the service counter is getting paid to help you. So they have to be nice even if you're rude (to a certain extent).

We are all just doing this for free from the goodness of our hearts. If you're inconsiderate to us, you'll get it right back (to varying degrees). If you want to go and 'take your business elsewhere' then go right ahead. Good luck finding another knowledgable forum with people who are willing to put up with your behaviour and answer everything with smile pasted on their lips even though you ignore their questions or advice. :)

Regardless, I'd like to agree with jellytoast. This has turned into what I would consider an interesting and reasonably polite discussion even if it is totally off topic.

IMO, sarcasm and ridicule do not deserve a polite response. If that sort of communication is acceptable in "forum etiquette," then so is choosing to ignore it. If posters are going to get their feelings hurt because they aren't getting thanked and appreciated enough, maybe they are the ones who need to develop thicker skins.

"This has turned into what I would consider an interesting and reasonably polite discussion even if it is totally off topic."

Agreed. And since the OP has deleted their account, I don't think they care if their thread has gone off the rails, lol.

It's fine to ignore sarcasm and ridicule. But don't ignore the helpful advice too. That's the rude part.

And as far as sarcasm goes, I personally think a little bit is okay. It's just a joke. But I guess everyone has their own limits on what they consider funny.

While I don't expect to be thanked for everything I say (and I also don't get upset if I don't get thanked), the odd time that there is an acknowledgment that I actually helped someone is enough to keep me on this forum and attempting to help people. If I felt like everything I said was just falling on deaf ears, then I'd probably lose interest and stop posting. Call me shallow if you will. ;)

"The difference being that the person at the service counter is getting paid to help you. "

True that they are being paid to be professional, it's their job. But I don't see that anyone has to tolerate being treated poorly. That they choose to ignore rude and condescending behavior is not being inconsiderate in the least. She obviously has more self-respect than to let people treat her like that.

" But don't ignore the helpful advice too. That's the rude part."

Well, she did throw a few Likes out there.

But I didn't get one!!! That's what has made me soooo furious!!!

(That's sarcasm)

lol.

Relax. So, she brushed us all off. Good for her.

Interesting; similar thing happened in the Building forum the other day. Question was asked, they didn't like answers, so they left. Completely.

Which thread?

LOL, greg!

"And as far as sarcasm goes, I personally think a little bit is okay. It's just a joke. But I guess everyone has their own limits on what they consider funny."

I can think of one poster who frequently comes across (to me, anyway) as what I would call "blatantly rude" but others would call "blunt and direct." I've seen newbies take offense to replies from this poster and are then scolded for not being grateful enough for the free advice.

"Question was asked, they didn't like answers

How do you know? Did they say they didn't like the answers or did they just not respond? Which thread is that?

I love sarcasm.

I love sarcasm.

Are you being sarcastic when you say that?

Does that mean that you really hate it?

But you just used sarcasm to say that you hate it.

Man ... I'm so confused.

No, I love sarcasm. It makes me laugh.

Here you go:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3660052/builder-is-refusing-to-change-trim-color-on-my-house?n=28

And you blame him for leaving? Maybe he should have stuck around and bent over for his whipping?

I saw that one, and thought great advice was given. Apparently not good enough for the OP. Perhaps we need a disclaimer saying realistic answers will be given, if you live in la-la land and your feelings will be hurt by the truth then do not enter.

Yeah, who doesn't love a good beat-down? I'm just sorry the OP left. It would have been fun to jump in and give him a good kick! All in the name of truth, of course!

I read the replies in that separate thread yesterday, and did not post because the advice needed was already given and I agreed with it. I don't see the point in beating down. That's why my original post in this duplicate thread was simply "Duplicate...." so other people knew they were wasting their time and could move on. I have not specifically attacked the OP here either. There honestly is nothing we can do but estimate for their question. My estimate for this question was at least 50% of purchase price, taking out cost of the lot and cost for structure and exterior.

In that other thread, it looks like a beat down because the OP is simply that ignorant and doesn't get it. The replies he got were to try to get him to understand he is in the wrong.

God forbid he should want to try to get his trim color right.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree on this one too, jelly. That thread totally started out fine. It was just not what he wanted to hear. The vast majority of it was perfectly pleasant. It just wasn't in agreement with what he insisted the situation was.

And I think there are a few posts that the OP removed before exiting totally. There are some quotes in others posts where the original post doesn't seem to exist anymore. I think the OP started throwing mud and then it went all downhill.

But, again, what I would consider just blunt honesty and maybe a little bit of sarcasm for light-hearted fun might be interpreted by someone else as rude.

God forbid he should want to try to get his trim color right.

But
if it's too late to make that change, then you have to accept it and
move on.

Everyone was trying to explain that it was too late, even his
builder who has the clearest picture of the entire situation. But
apparently that made his builder 'lazy' and everyone else just wasn't
listening and 'missing the point'.
Sometimes you can just
tell when someone just wants to be agreed with and they don't want to
actually learn anything or listen to what others say.

" ... it [the other thread] looks like a beat-down because the OP is simply that ignorant and doesn't get it."

"The replies he got were to try to get him to understand he is in the wrong."

Really? Is that what those replies were for? Well, okay ... as long as he's ignorant and deserves it! There was good advice given there, but as soon as the OP questioned the advice and injected his own opinion on the issue, he was ridiculed for it. He was even called out for being overly dramatic for preferring white over off-white! On a home improvement and decorating forum where discussions about shades of white take place frequently, lol!!!

In all fairness, I missed any posts that the OP deleted over there, so if it got ugly on his part, I didn't see that part. My observations are based soley on what I saw over there today, so I may not be getting the entire picture.

"Sometimes you can just tell when someone just wants to be agreed with and they don't want to actually learn anything or listen to what others say."

I think they just wanted their trim color right, lol.

I certainly hope these two continue to think for themselves and not follow blindly the advice and opinions posted by strangers on an internet forum.

We should at least thank the OP for getting our circulation going and allowing us to entertain ourselves. It's like going to a party and having the host completely disappear in the first 10 minutes. Or maybe it's like the inmates running the asylum... :-)

LOL!

81 posts. Even though ole Nelly was beaten to death a long time ago, lol.

With 27 out of the 81, you were doing most of the beating.

LOL! I don't think so!

No surprise you would consider SUPPORTING the OP a negative.

28.

My remodel was basically exactly what you described- full gut job 3300sf; mid/high end kitchen w custom cabinets, 48" range, all new everything you touch, see and feel including new windows, new baths, texture, etc... $148,000 is what we spent.

seems on the lower side of things - what is your rough location?

Midland, Texas. My suggestion is to get as many bids as possible on all aspects of your job. The variations from one contractor to another was HUGE. Also, I splurged on important things and went middle of the road on other things. But for this area it is a nice remodel... I live in a nice neighborhood... my house is the smallest on the cul de sac... my neighbors house is well over 4,000 sf on a half acre or more lot. Obviously my house is no million dollar home ;) (there's a few of those neighborhoods here) but I am a perfectionist and it is good. Not perfect... the cabinets are from a local cabinet maker and painted on site with a reputable painter- but it's not perfect but "good" and definitely better than acceptable. I could have easily spent $20k more on the kitchen with little to no additional ROI. We also did some work ourselves... i.e. All the demo, and any other non skilled labor we could do before the pros took over. We are also doing the trim work ourselves (baseboards and door casings). We bargained shopped for the appliances (all new Bosh except for range and bev fridge); new vinyl windows and not wood clad (no one has wood in this neighborhood); buying anso nylon carpet buy using one of the in stock colors; splurged on bath tile; got a good price on wood look tile $3.75sf for Marazzi American Estates for the other flooring; splurged on a few light fixtures but most are pottery barn level. Found a great deal on mosaic tile that's going behind master bath vanities; re-using the master bath mirrors and having them repurposed with bevel edge.

We made and have been keeping a detailed spreadsheet of all expenses and making other cuts when necessary to stay on budget (for example, we didn't get the pot filler because we need to shave a little off and we didn't want to spend on the faucet but we have a second sink 2 ft away that can fill pots... tons of little $1000 decisions like that add up!

Honestly, I have lost money on being indecisive.

We had a general contractor for the kitchen, master bath, plumbing and electrical, but we subbed out all the other work ourselves. Also, we didn't use the highest end contractor, but we also didn't use the cheapest. Just middle of the road people honest people we felt good with and that would work hard and wanted to do good work. They all came with recommendations from friends, our designer, or flooring store sales person.