Hi Sally!

Yes, that can be done. Are you getting a new OTR microwave, or will you use an existing one? one? You just want to make sure the microwave has a high enough CPM for the size of your apartment. What is the sq. ft. of your apartment? Your OTR will most likely filter the air through charcoal, so you'll want to make sure that is changed out as recommended. You'll also want to run the fan for at least 10 minutes after you take something out of the oven or off the cooktop.

Is this an apartment you own? I'm just curious as to why you, rather than the landlord, are replacing the range.

Are you wanting to upgrade your range? What is your price range? What kind of oven do you want, regular or with convection option, or strictly convection? What kinds of things do you bake and cook? You mentioned you don't fry. Are you vegetarians?

I'm asking all these questions because it's hard to advise you without knowing what it is you need your range to do and what price range you're looking at. :-)

Have a great day!

You are right Debbie...more information is needed for advice.

We have a GE profile microwave which I was planning on keeping, but can replace if necessary to get the range I want. Thanks for the information about the CPM...I will look into that. We own the apartment (condo) and plan on staying for a while. We want to upgrade our range. Price range to $4,000. Never use convection. I am a vegetarian, my family is not. Don't fry for health reasons. I don't bake too much so duel fuel is not necessary. I was considering the Bosch benchmark and GE cafe but then decided I wanted an upgrade from that. A good simmer is important. Don't care about self cleaning.

Thanks for any assistance!

Since you said looks are important, I recommend you check out the Bertazzoni ranges which come in a Professional line or Master line. Their ranges are within your price range, and are just so Italian-design looking. Clean, crisp and spare, with fabulous knobs. They cook well too, though you are not going to get top-professional-type performance, but you described that is not your cooking in any case.

The Professional line comes in colors (as well as stainless steel) if you want to be adventurous.

Bertazzoni 30" Professional Line Gas Range

The Bertazonni masters series would be perfect, however I am a bit freaked out by all the negative reviews....especially the oven. Have things improved at all with Bertazonni?

Have you looked at NXR? If you really don't cook much-is the simmer the only feature you are trying to get in the upgrade? It seems like potentially a lot of money for an appliance when you could take a nice vacation instead....?

i think the poster above was mistaken... cfm stands for cubic feet per minute i.e. How many cubic feet per minute of air can the vent move. I think that microwave vent hoods max out at 400 cfm, most move less. If you go over 400, you will need to look into something called make up air flow. To me the most important thing in a vent hood is that it vents outside. If it vents into the house it really isn't able to remove the odors and it just moving the grease in the room around....

Re the OTR MW - whether it's 300 cfms or 400 cfms (BTW, it's "cfm", not "cpm") doesn't matter that much when we are talking about an OTR MW. With a hood, it would make a difference. But an OTR MW pulls air through a couple small mesh squares, so that the exhaust power is rendered to minimal levels as a result. Add the fact that the OP's is recirculating, the exhaust power is even more constrained from its advertised cfms. Unlike a hood with a proper duct to the outside, there are no concerns with makeup air for a recirculating MW.

Re the OP's concerns about the Bertazzoni range, there are many threads on the Bertazzoni gas ranges in the Appliances Forum, so you can do a search in the search box at the top of the page. Here is one thread: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2274262/review-of-bertazzoni-30-gas-range?n=5

Have you considered induction? Many people like it especially when they cannot ventilate outside.

If you are set on gas, I would look at Big Chill which is made by BlueStar.

https://bigchill.com/shop/cook/big-chill-pro-stove/

They have a couple other ranges besides the pro.

Not sure what the simmer is but you would need to know the lower range of the burner's BTU rating. This is often hard to get but it us the only way to truly compare. It is often given in temperature which is nonsense. Too many variables to do that. Funny that they always give the higher end in BTUs and the lower in temperature.

Sally, induction definitely would be my choice if I were in your situation --- but only if the kitchen already has the wiring for an electric stove. Does your kitchen have a 240v stove outlet?

To be perfectly clear about "make up air" (MUA) and "venting," MUA is a concern only for externally venting hoods and microwaves. Those remove air from your apartment/condo. That's why MUA is needed. (Otherwise, you risk backdrafting water heaters, furnaces and etc.) In "recirculating" mode, that does not happen, so MUA is not a concern. For further searching, you might find it helpful to include "OTR" and "recirculating" in your search strings. (If you didn't know, OTR= over the range.)

If it were me, I'd keep the existing OTR until it dies or everything else gets changed out.

Practigal suggested an NXR range. I've had one for going on four years and have been pleased. It definitely is a pro-style range that is priced well under your max budget.

But --- there's always a "but" isn't there --- it might not be the kind of thing you are looking for.

To start with, it does not compete in the looks department with even those GE Cafe and Bosch Benchmarks you were considering. Nothing like the Bertas. The stove looks more like something you'd see in a commercial kitchen. Kind of like the old Wolf residential ranges from 30 years ago. Actually, it pretty much is a knock-off of those old-style Wolfs and even
uses some of the same components. (No red knobs, tho.)

No electronics to speak of. No timers, no probe controlled baking. No Sabbath modes. No self-cleaning oven. (Or, a "myself cleaning oven" so to speak.)

No problem with simmering --- if inclined, you can do the stupid pet trick of melting chocolate on a paper plate --- BUT the burners are all big and on high heat are better adapted to largish pans like 12" skillets, wide stockpots, and largish dutch ovens etc.

There can be more heat from the big burners than you'd get with the GE and Bosch you were considering. Actually, that can be true of pretty much any pro style range. Without exterior venting to help manage heat in the kitchen, I'd be reluctant to put in a pro-style range in a small place.

A great value in the "pro" is the capiral MCR304N. That range runs $2999 and will do everything a Viking or Wolf can do reliably. Just be aware that if you do high heat cooking/frying/etc...the hood will NEVER be able to keep up. If that's infrequent for you then no worries. I have been selling ranges like this for years into NYC with no issues...because most new yorkers DONT COOK!

I left one other thing out on this. If its going under an OTR microwave, you will probably need to replace the OTR. Standard GE or similar OTR microwaves are plastic and don't have heat protection for the control panel. There is a Dacor, DCS, Viking and one other that I am forgetting that can survive the higher level of hear from the 19k btu burners.

If its a hood, no worries

Unfortunately, we are not wired for an electric stove. Also, while not a deal breaker, we pay for electric but gas is included in our monthly maintance.

More on my "wish list"....I like continuous grates and big chunky knobs. Don't like lots of electric controls or black printing which indicates on/off etc (the prior owner actually scrubbed it off our current stove). My previous house had a Wolf and I got spoiled by the stove (although hated the oven).

Thanks for all the great comments!

Joe---since you are familiar with the NYC market...is there a microwave that can handle the venting required by a pro style range? What have you seen work well in apartments?

i agree about folks in NYC not cooking :)

Fisher Paykel/DCS

I have used that one a bunch of times. Handle the venting is not what I would call it though, more like being sturdy enough to not melt when it gets hot!

Viking

That's a nice one as well but a fair bit more money

Dacor

That's another one.

And before you say they all look alike...its because they are all built on the same platform by Sharp. so reliability will be identical.

Hi Sally. As soon as I saw your post, I was planning on recommending a Wolf all gas range until I read your last post. You stated above that you had a Wolf in your prior home. Which model? All gas? It covers the looks category, has nice chunky red knobs, and has a good simmer burner. Actually all of the burners have a simmer option. It is just slightly above your max budget.

I had the 36" all gas Wolf. The oven took forever to heat and the door was difficult to manage. Loved the stove.

Now starting to consider DCS which has a 30" slide in gas range with most of my wish list features. Just have to figure out if it can be vented through a microwave and if so, which one.

Anyone know why DCS is considered "slide in"?

The DCS is not a slide in. Its the same as all of the other pro ranges. Its not a bad range, the oven works well but its relatively small.

The DCS can be used with the Fisher Paykel microwave I recommended. F&P owns DCS.

Thanks Joe. The description I read for the DCS Professional Series describes it as a "30" Pro-style Slide-in Gas Range". I wonder why they would use that term?

We purchased the Fisher Paykel Active Smart Refrigerator (we had limited space) 6 months ago and have been very happy with that brand.

Joe, why are you saying the DCS 30" gas range is not a slide-in? It looks slide-in to me.

That DCS is a 5-burner range - just be sure you are OK with that. Some people find that 5 burners on a 30" cooktop means that their pots and pans are too crowded, vs. a 4-burner 30" range. Other people like having the 5 burners, so it's personal preference. If you can find the DCS range in a showroom, bring your favorite frying pan and pot with you, and put both on the cooktop of the range to see what you think about the 5-burner configuration. Don't be embarrassed to do it - people do it all the time; they also bring their dishes to check out dishwasher tines, their gallon jugs to check out fridges, roasting pans to check out sink sizes, etc.

Slide in refers to a range that overlaps the counter tops on the side and/or back. While DCS and others are backless, they are in fact freestanding. They have no overlap on the sides of any kind and are fully finished on both sides.

5 burner ranges are really 4 burner ranges with a burner in the middle. What I mean by that is that you can use the middle burner OR the 4 exterior burners. There is almost no circumstance where you could do both. That doesn't make it a bad thing, but not a big value adder in my eyes. If you do super sized pots like a lobster pot or wok, then the center mounted burner will give you the most space possible and place it more directly under the vent. Otherwise a 5th burner doesn't have much value.

Just returned from a quick trip to a local appliance store. The Bertazonni, which the salesman referred to as "a poor mans Viking" did look cheap. Maybe it was that particular model. The professional Viking was so much nicer than the Viking 3 series. (hated the modern look). I liked the 4 individual burner grates, the broil feature and roll out oven shelves. There were no Bosch Benchmark ranges or Thermadors on the floor so I will have to go to a larger appliance dealer to check those out. Still concerned about OTR venting although the salesman said it was not a problem since I don't fry or cook at high heat.

The Viking pro and the 3 series are light years apart. The 3 series is actually made from sourced parts, some of them from Italy. Not a bad piece, but NOT the pro series. Are you in NY? We have thermador on display, plus the benchmark in our Paramus showroom.

"Joe Henderson

The DCS is not a slide in. Its the same as all of the other pro ranges. Its not a bad range, the oven works well but its relatively small."

______

The DCS oven will hold a full sheet so that would not seem small in that respect so maybe more usable space even though less cubic feet.

I am going to confirm that, but I believe that to be incorrect. The 36" oven is listed at 5.3CF and fits a full size sheet pan with about 1-2" of room on the side to spare. I don't believe the 30" oven can fit one. It would not shock me if DCS has confusing information in their literature as their website and brochures do say this.

It might be that just because you can do it doesn't mean you should do it :-) There is a lot of marketing material that is erroneous. If it doesn't fit in the 30", then it would probably would not fit the big side of the 48" either I guess. The picture seems to be a 36" and it looks tight.

The 48" fit it because the large oven is the same as the 36".

I have confirmed that it does not fit in the 30" oven. Its too narrow.

Just thought I would add in 8 years the only problem I have had with my DCS, AG, propane is some clicking after a boil over. It corrected itself.

"The 48" fit it because the large oven is the same as the 36"."

Wow, that doesn't leave much room for the side oven.

Heading to appliance store today to make final decision. Looking at Bosch benchmark and Ge cafe double oven (on sale for $2,493) . Will also check out some of the pro-ranges although due to venting concerns, doesn't seem to be a viable option.