? kitchen- install new can light to connect to chandelier wiring

7 years ago

Checking re: installing a can/ spot light fixture where the old chandelier was to the wires that now connect to the new chandelier. The wires are connected at the open location. I believe that this would work...?

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greg_2015

7 years ago

Don't bother 'checking the amps'. Another light is such a low draw, that I can practically guarantee that it won't put it over the threshold for the wiring.

I'm assuming you'll be getting the electrician to install the recessed light? No offense, but you don't seem very knowledgeable about electricity.

The easiest thing would be to just find a light that you can mount to the junction box instead of removing the junction box and installing a recessed light. But I don't know what the aesthetics of the situation is, so maybe that isn't a nice option.

Did the electrician just put a blank plate on the junction box?

I'm assuming the 'he' you are referring to is an electrician.

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Comments (8)

greg_2015
7 years ago
Huh?

There's an existing chandelier.

You are replacing it with a recessed light?!?

What is the 'new chandelier' that you mention?

The wires are connected at the open location

What does that mean?!?
woodworksfurnituregallery
Original Author
7 years ago
The old chandelier was taken out. This is the hole with the wires connected now through to the new location of the chandelier. We would like to put a downlight in that hole.... and connect the wires to it and then allow the wires to connect to the moved chandelier location. Will this work...?
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I'm going to not-quite-disagree. My safety-oriented side says "fit a box." But my old-house side says "it worked this way for years, and was code compliant when originally installed." That setup probably worked fine. Shame on the previous owner for messing it up by removing the peripheral fixtures - and for fitting that hideous generic central fixture! What was he thinking? There are countless old houses which still have the original K&T for the ceiling lights, and most of them have no boxes at all. They are almost all done as you see here. The wires are enclosed in loom (cambric tubing) for protection and brought right out through the ceiling. The fixture is mounted with screws right into the joist, or even into the lath for fixtures that don't weigh much. This was standard practice and code compliant in those days. Of course it's important to note that very few homes used 100 watt and higher light bulbs in those days. I'm not so sure these installations are as safe when fitted with large incandescent lamps. And (here's my safety side again) you can't be sure that some future owner won't fit large bulbs. Unless, that is, you install fixtures that CAN'T accept large bulbs, such as those using candelabra or intermediate base lamps. ;-) The other problem you'll run into if you dig into this is that once you start to fit boxes, you disturb the wiring. Now you may be looking at having to completely rewire to modern standards, for code reasons and/or practical ones (such as having old insulation flaking off the wires). This may be more than you want to get into, but it's possible that this is where you'll end up anyway. I'd say that before doing anything else, you should first confirm that the wiring is still in reasonably good shape. With the power off, carefully flex the wires a bit. A little dryness in the rubber insulation under the cloth is all right, but if the rubber just flakes off, you have a major problem. If they seem OK, then you can probably install some low-wattage, low heat lighting there. Now, again speaking as an old house fan, I would strongly argue against fitting modern pendant fixtures, if that's what your considering. What you want is something appropriate to the house's period. Try here. Maybe something like this (regrettably this uses A19 lamps which could be upsized too much, but it might give you some idea of what's possible). BTW, I've seen a setup exactly like this in an old house dining room. The house belongs to some friends of ours. The lights fitted, which I think are original, are very small decorative fixtures. The heat produced has to be very low, which as I mentioned above is of some significance here.
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greg_2015
7 years ago
This is the hole with the wires connected

It's just a hole? Isn't there a box? What was the old chandelier attached to? Or did you remove that box too?
woodworksfurnituregallery
Original Author
7 years ago
Yes there is a box in that current hole. The new chandelier is working from the new location. He wired the chandelier to the wires that came to the box where the hole is. There are wire caps around each connection in the hole (2 total). Sorry that I am not explaining this well.
Fred S
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
Because you cannot cover up a junction box with drywall, and a blank plate looks tacky in the ceiling, you want to put in a 4" remodel can and use its junction box for the splices that are there. Yes, this is usually acceptable. Make sure that the fixture is IC rated if the ceiling is insulated. Make sure the recessed fixture is "Junction boxes rated for applicable through-branch circuit wiring", or something to that effect. If the junction box is in the (accessible) attic, then you could turn the box over and put a cover on it that is removable from the attic, and patch the drywall.
Fred S
7 years ago
"There are wire caps around each connection in the hole (2 total)."

Should be 3. Where is the ground wire? Is this in conduit?

250.130 Equipment Grounding Conductor Connections. Equipment grounding conductor connections at the source of separately derived systems shall be made in accordance with 250.30(A)(1). Equipment grounding conductor connections at service equipment shall be made as indicated in 250.130(A) or (B). For replacement of non– grounding-type receptacles with grounding-type receptacles and for branch-circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch circuit, connections shall be permitted as indicated in 250.130(C).

(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:

(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50

(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor

(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates

(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure

(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure
woodworksfurntiuregallery
7 years ago
You are right. There are three. One was hidden behind the other... I will check the amps to see if the line can handle the chandelier and a can light.

? kitchen- install new can light to connect to chandelier wiring

greg_2015

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? kitchen- install new can light to connect to chandelier wiring

greg_2015

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