SHOP PRODUCTS
Houzz Logo Print
twinsfen2010

Contractor died suddenly

twinsfen2010
8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

We are about 60% through a second floor addition and tragically our contractor died of a heart attack yesterday. I realize that this is a very rare situation but am hoping to get some guidance on where to go from here. He was a solo GC although most all of the work was being done by subs. His office staff/family is obviously reeling from this and assured me they would finish the job but I realize this may not happen smoothly.

We have been paying him incrementally and have paid all but 30k of the total contract. The addition is 700 sqft (2bedroom 2 bath). All bath tiles/fixtures are purchased and delivered. Assuming I need to look elsewhere to finish this project, will 30k finish insulating, Sheetrock, doors, trim ,600sqft wood floors and labor for finishing bathrooms? Also any idea what my liability is if he died before paying the plumbing and electrical subs? I already paid the GC for their work...

Comments (66)

  • artemis_ma
    8 years ago

    I just saw this now. Best of luck, and document, document anything you can.

  • C Marlin
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    How did the contractor run his business, was it an LLC? Sole proprietor? Consult an attorney quickly.


    I had an architect die, but I did know he was dying.

  • Related Discussions

    One half a cherry tree just dies rather suddenly.

    Q

    Comments (2)
    If you cut the limb off, you will see a very distinct area of brown discoloring on the inside if it is canker. I just lost a 5 year old cherry to canker - when I cut it down, the was an almost perfect brown circle in the center of the stump.
    ...See More

    16 HP B&S Vanguard dies suddenly after 30 minutes or so

    Q

    Comments (13)
    If it was me I would do complete fuel system clean up. Said this before with that many hours and years on it your fuel system is dirty and about to fail. I would Start at the tank. remove it, clean it out either by swabbing or pressure washing. rinse with gas or alky. Next I would replace all the fuel hoses, fuel filter, install shut off valve, replace the hoses after the fuel pump and the fuel pump vaccum hose. If you don't want to clean the carb. bowl and spray the main jet with carb. cleaner add some fuel system cleaner when you get it filled back up with fresh gas and clean system up to the carb. Also while I was in there I would also inspect the elect harness, switches, looking for loose hanging wires, chafed wires, rusty connections. plastic tie wrap any loose wiring that could get chafed or rubbed against moving parts. If you want it to last you need to do this very few years 6 is pressing it, but not bad depending on conditions you work your equipment in. I would also make sure I check the air filter often older vanguard are fussy with the small air filter between the cylinders. Now cylinders reminds me of cooling fins. have you checked them lately? Might want to revisit the owners manual on pre-ventive maintenance make sure you got all the bases covered. do that and that tractor may last life time???? another thing if you going by the 50 hour oil changes you better be mowing in dust free invoriment?? if not then 50 hours between oil changes is way too long hence extreme conditions in the owner maintenance schedule??
    ...See More

    Yoshino Cherry...top half died suddenly.

    Q

    Comments (3)
    You might like to try Prunus mume, look how many kinds they have at the Raulston Arboretum. Here is a link that might be useful: Raulston Arboretum Search Result
    ...See More

    General Contractor passed away, what next?

    Q

    Comments (30)
    Just came back from the attorney's office and spent a good amount of time reviewing everything that has happened thus far. He said the contract is automatically cancelled as there is no contractor with a valid license(license just expired this morning) to fulfill everything in the contract. The wife can chose to get her own license to help complete and honor the remainder of the build but it is her discretion. The License Board should receive an application with that request and this could take months to get approved. He said most likely, it would be denied. I could chose to sue the estate to recover the money but did not recommend it(likely no money in it anyway). Bottomline, he asked me to cut my losses and move on and work my energy towards hiring a new general contractor. At the very least, i think he asked us to make a claim against the bond amount which is around $20,000. He believed that would be a good idea and probably would be a no contest sort of situation.
    ...See More
  • Lindsey Armstrong
    4 years ago

    We just found out our builder (sole proprietor as well with an extensive sub network) has cancer in multiple parts of his body and has already been undergoing chemo for the past 3 weeks. We are doing a new build and are already over 100k invested in material, labor and deposits and the slab won’t be poured until next week! (Much longer story)

    Is there anything that you wish you had known or could have put in place in advance. Did you learn of any ways to protect the home owner? We’re you able to stay on budget with just delays/get repercussions for the delays?

    The builder has become a good friend, I’m not sure how to approach this with him this still relays our compassion for his health and personal stress and the need to place some frameworks of worst case in order

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    4 years ago

    ".I waited several weeks before reaching out to the family. I never received a response. Office is closed and for rent. It seems the day after the GCs death the bank accounts were drained and closed. The subs who were working at the time have not been paid and 2 have filed liens against our house."


    That's what compassion and delay gets you. I would have been in their face right after the last shovelful of dirt hit his coffin. This is business, and through no fault of his own, he left his unfinished.


    Years ago a local countertop shop was for sale. Word got out that the owner was dying of cancer. None of the other shops made an offer; we circled like vultures waiting to pick the bones of his accounts.


    A lion doesn't apologize for eating a baby gazelle. Same thing here.

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    I am in a very similar situation. I paid my contractor 55k , he died from the virus after being in the hospital for 2 weeks, with in those 2 weeks I spoke to his wife because I did not want to bother him , she told me he was ok getting better and that she would keep me posted of his condition. I gave him 55k toward the work that was done which has been estimated to be worth only 25 to 30k. I waited 2 weeks to be respectful and was going to contact his wife , and I got a call from the son telling me he was coming to pick up the tools the father had left at my house. He never mentioned anything about the job the money etc.. When I said well what about me the money that is owned to me , he answered well that was my father I have nothing to do with it , as his mother was screaming in the backround. I tried to contact the wife ,the bother who was also helping on the job , no one answered me. What can I do to get me some of this money back ? I AM afraid they will do just what the story above stated , clean out the back accounts so there is nowhere to get anything .

  • Trish Walter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I am so sorry for all of you guys in crazy horrible situations.

    Our builder had an 'epiphany' during the beginning of the pandemic and sent us a 'dear john' email and dissolved his LLC then took off on a 2 week adventure.

    We were in a hindsight lucky situation of receiving the checks from the bank [they were written to us and our Builder as he didn't want to mess with that part [foreshadowing?] so we paid contractors and him from the bank draws.

    When we received the 'dear john' letter we were quite relieved that we had been doing it this way. So perhaps this might help others?

    The subs that he had hired have continued to work for us.

    Of course during the middle of this our bank was sold to another bank who is not super excited about the owner-builder situation we find ourselves in. We are 70% done and are hoping they will give us the money to finish it out but that's a separate issue. lol. Building / remodeling is not for the faint of heart.

    Trish

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    I would not call this a crazy situation , unfortunate ,horrible , scary, dishonest , make you sick in your stomach , heartless , stab in the back , sneaky and a few others I cant put on here. But crazy I dont think so , they were not crazy just conniving , and you dont have to be crazy for that, you just have to be heartless and selfish.

  • Trish Walter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    sorry to offend the situations are crazy the results are horrible.


    @HU-96285276 assuming you've contacted a lawyer? if not asap. hoping it is resolved for you.

  • bry911
    3 years ago

    I AM afraid they will do just what the story above stated , clean out the back accounts so there is nowhere to get anything.

    If your builder was bonded, file against his bond. If not bonded then I would personally see if you could get a settlement for a partial refund. Some money without a fight is better than a big fight for a little more. The family may not be able to pay all creditors so offering to take less money might help.

    Unless you were planning something underhanded, I just don't see why draining the account matters. You are not allowed to reverse the transaction for insolvency or dissolution (which is the underhanded thing that does happen). There could be $400,000 setting in that account and your recourse would not be any different than if there were $8 in that account, only your willingness to pursue it would change.

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I would not call this a crazy situation , unfortunate ,horrible , scary, dishonest , make you sick in your stomach , heartless , stab in the back , sneaky and a few others I cant put on here.

    Or it is none of those things. If you did business with a contractor who was not bonded and you didn't insist on a bond, then that was your risk.

    There may be nothing underhanded about their actions at all. Just because you feel you are owed a refund doesn't mean you are. Was this an LLC or a sole proprietor? If an LLC the company's assets are liquidated and debts are settled, if there are $80,000 of debts and only $15,000 in liquidated assets, then everyone gets little after fees. If it was a sole proprietor then there could be hundreds of thousands of debt from the hospital alone and your debt for services not completed will not be in front of anyone else's.

  • Trish Walter
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    For those going forward perhaps make sure to see invoices before you pay and waivers of lien? Would that help.

    These ideas unfortunately don't help those in these situations but might help others.


  • Kimberly G
    3 years ago

    We didn't pay our contractor anything until house was finished. All bank draws were handled directly by me. He sent me invoices for subs and I drew funds and paid them. It was a lot of work for me but I know where every cent went. We paid him in full after house was complete.

  • strategery
    3 years ago

    Forget sympathy, this is business. Immediate stop work. Request formal review of financial status. Are you over or under paid up to this point?

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    How do I request formal review of financial status ?? It was a sole proprietor . All I want is for someone to answer my call or text or get in touch with me so we can work this out, but no one will contact me, which leads me to believe they have no intention of even trying to make this right. The shame is the contractor himself was not a bad guy I believe had he not passed he would have finished the job as we agreed . I told the wife that after she had the son call me to tell me he wanted to pick up some tools that were left at the house , I told him I would have to get back to him and within 3 days , she sent someone to my house telling me she was here to get the tools. I of course did not give them to her , for several reasons but mostly because I had no idea who she was , she told me she was sent by the wife. Not only does the wife have my money but now she is harassing me .

  • shead
    3 years ago

    You need to get an attorney. You may have to file some type of restraining order/injunction or lawsuit. You also need to find out if probate has been started and file a claim against the estate. Being a sole proprietor likely means that his business funds were co-mingled with marital assets or held in accounts that she was a joint owner (with right of survivorship) of. That means those accounts are technically not part of the estate and she can liquidate them if she wants. It's a tricky situation to be in for sure. Only an attorney in your jurisdiction can advise you for sure what your rights are at this moment.

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Have you actually checked to see if he was bonded? Some states require contractors to be bonded. If he was bonded, then you don't need to talk to his widow, just file against his bond and be done with it.

    Don't make a bad situation worse. I know keeping his stuff seems fair, but in reality keeping his tools from his family is a crime. His family is eventually going to call the police and they are going to show up at an inconvenient time and take the stuff. There is a process you will have to go through to seize their assets and it doesn't involve committing a felony. They are not harassing you by trying to get their stuff back.

    There is a very real possibility that you are not going to get the money...ever. You might as well start dealing with that fact now. If they don't have the money, then they just don't have it. Don't be foolish and turn a $25,000 loss into a $25,000 loss and $15,000 in attorney bills. You should talk to an attorney, but you should also be prepared for bad news.

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    How do I request formal review of financial status?

    You don't! This is really not a thing and even if it were, you likely have no standing to request it. If there was a trust or escrow type account you could request a reconciliation of that, but most likely you are just a customer and have no more right to request a review of your contractor's financial status than you do of a restaurant's financial status when you believe they should refund your payment.

  • strategery
    3 years ago

    @bry911, financial status of project. How much has been paid and for what.

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    First he was not bonded. Keeping his tools from his family IS NOT A CRIME . The administrator of his estate needs to direct who gets his possessions . Since that has not be directed I will not be given tools to some random lady who shows up at my door who is not even family. If for example the administrator happens to be not his wife and one of his sons comes to get the tools but the other son also wants them , who am I, to give to one and not the other . I need to see a legal document telling me who is to get them, and by the way I had talked to the son a day before telling him I would get back to him . and I intended to . Harassment is defined as aggressive pressure or intimidation , this random lady who had someone in a car as a back up demanded to give her tools was absolutely aggressive and threatening and trying to intimidate me, no doubt about it , beside the house is vacant and they know it, so it was just by the grace of God I happen to be there trying to work on getting another contractor to finish the work , since they left me homeless . I really believe they had every intention of getting in that house thru the basement window that was never fixed by them . She even went a step further by screaming she was calling the cops and I was mortified that my neighbors heard her, what a nice way to get your neighbors to get to know you . I dont know where you come from , but if you dont see that as harassment what does one have to do, pull out a gun , I am not about to wait for that before I stand up for myself .

  • thinkdesignlive
    3 years ago

    This is 4 years old - any resolution?

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    What is 4 years old ?? my issue is from a month ago 4/2020

  • shead
    3 years ago

    @HU-96285276, you piggybacked a four year old thread with your own issue. That’s what makes it confusing. Ideally, a new thread should have been started for your own issue.

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    ok thanks for clearing that up , now everyone knows this is current .

  • bry911
    3 years ago

    @strategery - In a cost plus contract you have the right to verify actual costs incurred, but that isn't the same for any fixed portion of the contract. If the contract specifies the overhead and profit as a dollar amount rather than a markup on cost, a reconciliation is not going to be that helpful. They are just going to claim that the planning stages is where they earn much of their fees and thus from a cost perspective you are not owed a refund.

    It is better to find new bids to complete the original agreement. This will give you a dollar amount to put you in the same position and that is what is you need.


  • bry911
    3 years ago

    ok thanks for clearing that up , now everyone knows this is current .

    And yet, it is also 4 years old. thinkdesignlive was asking the OP whether or not their issue was resolved, not about your issue. If the OP has notifications turned on they might decide to come back and answer that question.

    The administrator of his estate needs to direct who gets his possessions

    Maybe, and maybe not. Whether or not the estate even needs to be probated is something that we can't know. In many states there is a personal property exemption to probate and in some states the spouse would automatically take ownership.

    However, no matter what situation, you don't have any rights to demand that direction. You have no ownership or claim to that equipment and so you need to release it to any confirmed agent. Don't pretend you are taking the high road, you could have called the widow or had the person their call the widow and ask for a text releasing the things to her. The reality is that you are just pissed and trying to play tough. I assure you, were I representing the widow I would advise her to call the police.

    I don't mean to offend you, but given the tone of your posts in a thread where you asked for help. I would be reluctant to give you anything.

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    I am ahead of you with that advice. That is how I know who much he owes me , I had 2 contractors do 2 things first give me an estimate of how much the cost was based on what was done and then 2nd what it will cost to finish the job. The answer to the first was given to me and I deducted that number from what I gave him and that is how I came up with the amount of refund. I gave him money to pay for the 2 biggest items ,windows and the kitchen cabinets which he ordered but never paid , I got in touch with these vendors and now have to pay all over again before I can get these products , which I need desperately .

  • bry911
    3 years ago

    This should be a lesson to everyone out there hiring a contractor...

    I am very sorry that this has happened to you, but this is what risk is about. It is cheaper to run a business without being properly capitalized and insured. Those savings often get passed on to customers. So, you probably saved about 1% and you gambled nothing would happen. That isn't a bad gamble really, every client the contractor had before you probably made the same gamble and ended up saving 1% or so. Whether knowingly or not, you took the same gamble and lost.

    Now you are in for a headache and are likely out money.

  • shead
    3 years ago

    It’s definitely a lesson about gambling. However, the homeowner has a right to be pissed and even if no estate gets probated, he has a right to seek restitution. Many (if not most) states have laws regarding this type of situation. This homeowner needs to consult with an attorney to ascertain his legal standing and his legal obligation to turn over any construction property left onsite. I can see an argument being made that his funds paid for that equipment and therefore, he has a right to keep them. I’d keep a log of how long they’ve been onsite and charge rent for storage of them. Our neighbor did that for some logging equipment a guy refused to move. In the end, he ended up with a judgment in his favor for the rent owed and was allowed to sell the equipment and keep the proceeds. Ask an attorney, though, what the best course of action is.

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I had 2 contractors do 2 things first give me an estimate of how much the cost was based on what was done and then 2nd what it will cost to finish the job. The answer to the first was given to me and I deducted that number from what I gave him and that is how I came up with the amount of refund.

    There are several accepted valuation methods for construction in progress... I would advise against a direct valuation of his work, it is generally not the strongest valuation method. The best thing to do is to get several estimates to finish the exact same job less any unpaid balance to him and that is the amount you need.

    Original estimate - amounts paid to original contractor = unpaid balance.

    New estimate - unpaid balance = requirement to put you in the exact same position you would have been in.

    That does mean if the estimates are cheaper you may not get as much, but it harder to defeat that valuation method as it is clearly intended just to make you whole. You then avoid the entire discussion over milestones versus cost to cost.

    ----

    Having said all of that, I am going to go all broken record on you here...

    What you paid before is a sunk cost. It doesn't matter how much you paid, how much you still owe, how much you feel is owed back, etc. All that matters is how much you can reasonably get in the future. You need to remind yourself that being owed $25,000 and only getting $8,000 is still better than being owed $100,000 and getting $0.

    If the family has gone dark, is not communicating at all and is being cagey about paying, then I would bet dimes to dollars that they aren't planning on paying you. Fighting for dollars when they are not willing to pay a dime is silly. So I would advise you to start fighting for nickels...

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    Thanks for your help and I dont have any problems fighting for nickels But how do I start to fight when no one will talk to me , I need to get an attorney , but then it becomes do I throw more money into a losing battle , I guess I would have to ask the attorney in his educated opinion what are the chances of getting anything back. In my search for information I discovered this contractor had been arrested in 2016 for forgery , this just keeps getting worse, not sure if he was convicted but the post from the homeowner said he forged his name on some permits. I really want to send this info which is clearly stated on the website to his family and say , it would really be a shame to ruin a dead guy reputation so maybe you might want to talk and work things out. I just don't have the heart to be so disrespectful .

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    In my search for information I discovered this contractor had been arrested in 2016 for forgery [...] not sure if he was convicted but the post from the homeowner said he forged his name on some permits.

    Being arrested doesn't mean a whole lot. To be convicted of forgery there has to be an intent to defraud. I have no idea of the particulars but I assure you that contractors signing a homeowner's name on a permit is probably not that rare.

    I really want to send this info which is clearly stated on the website to his family and say , it would really be a shame to ruin a dead guy reputation so maybe you might want to talk and work things out.

    I suspect that you are your own worst enemy. How would you respond to that? Your spouse just passed away unexpectedly and someone tries to blackmail you with ruining your dead spouse's reputation. In these situations people tend to switch between grief and rage, and the only thing stopping you from a bit of blackmail is respect...

    I think you need to see an attorney for sure, not because you are going to get your money back, but because you are headed for more losses. What happens when "vandals" break into the vacant property and steal the tools, that you are now responsible for, doing tens of thousands of dollars of damage in the process?

  • One Devoted Dame
    3 years ago

    I just don't have the heart to be so disrespectful .

    Thank you for ending with this... I was getting worried there, for a minute. <3

    If it were me, and if it were at all possible, I'd personally deliver his tools to his family, along with an apology for failing to surrender them sooner, some flowers for his wife, and an easy-care evergreen perennial -- that's hardy in your zone -- to be planted in memory of him.

    I understand you've experienced a serious loss of money. It's beyond frustrating. No one likes paying for something twice. :-( At the end of the day, though, it's just money. This man lost his life, and his family is likely experiencing a serious loss in their hearts, and who knows what kind of financial strain they're under now, without their patriarch.

    Please step back and consider the family's position. If you aren't able to sincerely offer compassion, then silence is the better path to take, and move on with your project on your own. Best of luck to you. <3

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    Clearly the last two messages are from someone who have never been in this position.If you still continue to think these are good people after I clearly stated that the contractor was arrested for forgery for forging his name on documents he was using to construct a handicap mans ramp . The customer had to not only fire him but get him arrested , what are you two people thinking , as I look further they have had several liens on their homes from other customers that he did not do the right thing . He also sold his property to his wife for a dollar , so as to avoid them taking the house once convicted . Are you people not hearing me , these two were not good people . for all I know he may not even be dead, based on the lies Iam, discovering . You have the audacity to suggest I buy flowers , really, so she can continue riping people off . Do you live under a rock and not see what is crystal clear . THis is no longer about the money but to stop them from continuing to hurt honest people like me who have given my hard earned money to fix my house, I just retired and on a fixed income and I dont now how long I will have to wait to save the money they stole from me and my son . Oh and did I mention I am also a widow who lost my husband when my son was 13 , I texed her when I heard of her husbands passing my sincere condolences and also offered her a ear to listen if she needed someone to talk to , that is what I did , she decided to steal from me. I dont think that is a fair trade.

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    for bry911 are you for real that its not rare that signing a permit without the permission of the person ??? What does that mean , that anyone can just go sign people names on documents for things that dont belong to them or they do not have permission to do , its wrong. , however rare you say it is , cmon

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Clearly you want validation. With all that stuff in his background, why did you hire the guy? Do you want us to celebrate the fact that you finally did the due diligence that you clearly should have done before you gave the contractor the money?

    I don't know how long you have been coming to these forums, but few here are going to offer much sympathy when you skipped the part that everyone here spends so much time emphasizing.

    ----

    Here is the reality. Standing on principle is easy... Start with a lot of money, hand it all to your attorney, tell him to make sure the world knows they are bad people. You will be poorer, your attorney will be richer, and absolutely nothing will change about the contractor, whether he is dead or alive. Apparently, in the past other people undertook the efforts to warn future customers not to do business with this contractor, and you still handed him $55,000 without looking. What exactly do you think one more warning is going to accomplish?

    You very likely have two choices:

    (1) call this an expensive lesson, learn from it and move on. While it is certainly a lot of money, it is not the end of the world.

    (2) You can make sure you lose more money and time making sure the discomfort and worry last you a lot longer, in an effort to prove you were right.

    --------

    Every time you post, you provide more evidence that the entire endeavor is quixotic and a bit dangerous. If you really believe they are bad people, then get their tools back to them and stop trying to strong arm people. They have very little to lose in this game and you have a vacant house.

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    anyone can just go sign people names on documents for things that dont belong to them or they do not have permission to do , its wrong. , however rare you say it is

    We were not having a conversation about right and wrong, we were discussing the law. Forgery is signing someone's name with an intent to defraud. That second part is just as important as the first.

    You were considering threatening to expose an arrest record... Not me. I was pointing out that being arrested is not the same thing as being convicted. Permits are always attached to the property and therefore to the homeowner, regardless of who signs for the permit. Certain states have requirements for who can take a permit out, and yes... If you go to any state that requires a licensed contractor or a homeowner to sign you can find plenty of signatures that don't match the homeowner's signature. They don't crack down on that because they are hard to prosecute as the homeowner must demonstrate that they were being defrauded.

    That was my only comment, certainly nothing about it being OK.

  • One Devoted Dame
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Are you people not hearing me , these two were not good people .

    Every single human being on Earth is imperfect.

    So the deceased contractor was arrested (but not convicted... here in the USA, we have "innocent until proven guilty" for a reason) for *forgery.* Sorry, but a forgery arrest is not on par with, for example, a caught-on-video murder conviction.

    I am unwilling to label someone a "bad person" because of a single arrest that was never convicted, especially over something that didn't intentionally deprive someone of life, limb, or personal bodily respect.

    I have personally known folks who have done terrible things (a man who committed multiple sexual assaults, threatening park-going children with a gun while intoxicated) and who got a slap on the wrist without convictions, as well as folks who were falsely arrested (a man charged with domestic violence; both parties involved admitted the same truth, but the officer was bound by law to arrest someone at the scene, and my friend chose to keep his child with his child's mother out of a misplaced sense of nobility, rather than justice; she later left him and their son, anyway) and later convicted unjustly.

    Because of these experiences, I am just not willing to take it on one party's word that someone else is a bad person. He is not here to defend himself, and neither is his widow. If someone stole from you, hire an attorney, call the police, and file a report. Documentation is necessary for the pursuit of justice in our system. And even then, there aren't any guarantees.

  • HU-96285276
    3 years ago

    I guess I come from a world that when something is done to someone to hurt them in any way , weather it be financially , physically they should be held responsible.. All I have heard from you is walk away, dont make the lawyers rich , learn a lesson , its only money , are you all a bunch of wips , what happen to fight for what is right win or lose .You just dont walk away so they can do it to the next person . Yes I was wrong to not check his record but he was recommended by several people that I trusted, so I guess its shame on me. I will pursue this and someone will win and someone will lose but you can rest assured I will not go down without fighting for justice . By the way all you bleeding hearts telling me to give the tools back , I never had any intention of keeping them , however I was told by a lawyer that until the estate has an administrator who needs to tell me who they go to , and not some random lady who harasses me at my house , I am not to do anything . But when I am told I will be sure to tie them up in a big ribbon and make sure I send some flowers as well .

  • shead
    3 years ago

    bry911, that’s uncalled for and unfair. I don’t see this poster as being a troll. They have a justifiable right to be angry. They have, in essence, been robbed. Whether or not they have any legal standing will/should be ascertained by an attorney who is basically going to advise them to take a calculated risk/gamble towards recouping any losses or not.


    I would not go down without some sort of fight in this, and truth be told, I doubt you would, either. It‘s easy to be sanctimonious when it’s not your money that’s been lost.

  • millworkman
    3 years ago

    HU-96285276, you come here asking for advice, then state you have it all figured out. bry911 is trying to help but then you dispute everything he offers. Which is it, are you looking for help or do you have it all figured out?

  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    @shead - bry911, that’s uncalled for and unfair. I don’t see this poster as being a troll. They have a justifiable right to be angry. They have, in essence, been robbed.

    With, respect I don't think it was uncalled for or unfair. Aside from the poster's increasingly confrontational tone and name calling, the general escalation of facts and drama is textbook trolling. A simple question is asked or statement offered and then respondents are kited along with more and more drama until a simple question or position becomes a long drawn out dramatic series of posts that are increasingly emotional.

    This poster is a troll, it may not even be through a conscious effort, but there is no doubt that this series of posts meets every requirement for trolling. I have not been in any way confrontational and yet have been a target of escalating hostility for trying to help.

    How else would you describe the escalation other than trolling? Please keep in mind that trolling is a behavior and not an intent.

    ETA: This refers to a meme I posted about trolling... The meme basically says trolls want to upset other people because they are upset.

  • just_janni
    3 years ago

    It feels like the post is more of a vent / cathartic / looking for company in the misery or anyone with a similar experience and how it played out.


    OP appears to have already engaged with an attorney, and has recognized that more due diligence should have occurred.


    Anger from feeling robbed, as shead states, is a genuine emotion and we're just watching it play out.


    I also expect we're not getting a lot fo the details - as it does appear that there were initial condolences and other positive interactions.


    All in all - and when it gets right down to it - the moral of so many of these stories is to DO NOT PAY AHEAD OF THE WORK COMPLETED.


    Anyone who has built a house knows of the pressure to pay ahead. Some contractors are relentless. I am dealing with one right now - and it's someone who has done work for me before. It's "easy" to agree and pay a large deposit just to be done with it. RESIST and keep looking at this as a BUSINESS TRANSACTION and hold your ground. That's the lesson.


  • bry911
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Here is some advice for anyone in a similar situation.

    You can go broke chasing fairness and/or justice. One of the keys to wealth is to spend less money, and a key to happiness is to spend less time doing things that make you unhappy. So it just makes sense that you should avoid spending money on things that make you unhappy.

    ----

    It has been 20 years since I took a tenant to court for money owed. It just isn't worth it. For the first ten years I was a landlord I would attempt to get money people owed me and I would get judgments and try to collect. It was a waste of time, even without having to pay attorney fees, I could have made more money working at McDonalds.

    We are wired to dislike unfairness and injustice. There is nothing wrong with being angry because you got screwed over, I don't know anyone who says otherwise. However, who really wins when you turn a $30,000 theft, into a $30,000 theft and $20,000 of attorney fees? I have seen several people spend money trying to get a judgment on someone who was always judgment proof, only to end up with a judgment for unpaid legal fees themselves.

  • Lyndee Lee
    3 years ago

    Whether or not this man was a "good person" is of
    no further concern. He is dead, along with his plans, hopes, dreams, secrets, and can not do anything further on this project. His wife has had her life turned upside down and is now being hassled by an unhappy customer who has unfinished business.

    Any time someone dies suddenly, there are unfinished business issues and that is a risk we all take when letting someone into our lives. You can't rewrite history and all the laws ever written can't put Humpty Dumpty together again. There is a lot of ugly in this world and I am sorry you have been dumped into this situation.

    You should talk with a local lawyer about how best to protect your interests going forward but acting unpleasant is not in your long term best interests. You really don't want to piss off the subs who are now working for you to finish this project. If they don't like how you handle your side of the deal, they will have an excuse for running away as well. Tread carefully if you don't want to find yourself alone in an unfinished house.

  • Nursery Gal
    3 years ago

    The poster is out $55,000 and looking for advice on how to minimize this loss. The responses here seem more critical than helpful. Like other potentially helpful suggestions, I would ask a reputable attorney what to do. Paying the attorney to help get some restitution might be better than getting nothing. Hopefully, a consult can at least let you know if it would be worthwhile. I’m sure you were hoping for advice from someone who has experienced a similar situation and could tell you how it went. I wish you the best!

  • Nursery Gal
    3 years ago

    Also, I’m not sure what your liability is if you paid the GC, but he did not pay the subs. My friend recently built a house, and the contractor never paid the kitchen company. He is still alive, and the court found the contractor liable. Did you sign any contracts with the subs?

  • Nursery Gal
    3 years ago

    I’m not sure how my friend’s case was different. The kitchen company took my friend and the general contractor to court for $24,000 plus another $6000 in interest and fees. They had electronic messages from the contractor who said everything was paid to the kitchen company and nothing else was owed, which had obviously not happened. The judge ruled in favor of my friend. Perhaps the kitchen company is choosing not to put a lien on their home.

  • Nursery Gal
    3 years ago

    Maybe if it gets to the point where you receive notice that they are shooting for a lien, you can come up with a deal with the electrician and plumber to settle at a lower cost. Explain that you already paid the GC and perhaps they’ll cut some slack.

  • bry911
    3 years ago

    "I’m not sure how my friend’s case was different."

    I suspect it was a procedural error on the part of the sub. Generally, as statutes get more one sided they also get more procedurally restrictive. Mechanic's liens are incredibly one sided, but there are notification requirements and filing requirements on strict timelines.

    In my response to the original OP, I noted their biggest bar to collection against the estate was probably a procedural misstep.