I think this one is P. eatonii. I'm not sure but I did order seeds of that. I also got some seeds in trade from a gal in Texas however so....I'm not sure. Its a nice one and seems to come up very easily, I've got several small ones. Sorry, no close up shots. The yellow plants are Damianitia, a Texas native that smells fabulous.

P. ambiguus (Bush or Sand Penstemon). It bloomed like this all summer. Up close the flowers seem porcelain like, whiter than white. You don't get that in the photo but its really nice in person.

Another not too great shot of the plant, this is the hot pink earliest blooming one I got in the seed packet from Native Seed out of Tempe Az. I think its P. parryi. I was told it wasn't P. psuedospectabilis.

P. palmeri, Pink wild Snapdragon aka 'The Monster Penstemon'. Its is really big with a stickery base.

The globe mallow. I have that other type with smaller flowers, the one that is sending up plants around itself from spreading roots. This plant below gets rather large and tall.

B. multiradiata volunteers. I love the blue foliage as much as the flowers. I usually have to thin them out because its such a good naturalizer.

And...a bit of whimsy. I love these. Rayless Gaillardia. I found a cluster of them growing about 4" tall in stiff clay in a mowed area they use for soccer games by my church. I brought home seeds and walla.......I ended up with very tall Art Deco looking stiff tall stems growing up out of a very small and low rosette of leaves, stems are topped with these funky orange balls that smell like cheap men's cologne. They are also called 'Perfume Balls' I call them 'Men's Cheap Cologne Balls'. I ran across it looking for penstemon pics and it made me smile. They are very Arch-i-tek-tural looking in the garden and keep sending up new blooms quite a long time. Another weird thing is they watch you. As the day progresses, they turn their heads, its real noticeable.

Some Perfume Balls growing under a Bird of Paradise. Balls on tall stems twisting their little heads around, I love it. A different plant in the courtyard had a lot more balls but I didn't shoot a picture. This year, I will.

You guys make me feel like a poser winter sower! Love the penstemon pics, it's one of my fav plants--very pretty and deer don't eat it! I think I have 3 different types that are native, or at least were here when we built our house. I don't THINK anyone would've planted anything here before us, it was pasture land for the last 100-150 years, but I guess seed could've migrated via bird from a nearby neighbor's garden. I'll post pics of those this summer, I'm sure Zach will be able to tell me if they're native or not! I'll also post pics of any other interesting plants that seem to be native in case anyone wants seeds or bulblets--I have a couple that come up that appear to be a spring bulb.

Also, have you tried winter sowing China Asters, Skybird? You said you like the bigger zinnias, I winter sowed both 3 years ago and the China Asters germinated much better than the zinnias and had some incredible blooms. I even had some volunteer plants the next summer. That was the year that I moved 30 yards of planter's mix to start a new garden area so I never got around to collecting seeds...

Liz, I am the POSER here, this is only my second year winter sowing! I just read a lot, and try to apply my "shade tree" knowledge to whatever I'm doing in the garden. My habit of being obsessive and background in biology makes me think I'm smart, but, actual results often like to bring me back down to reality and continually prove the one theory I have that seems to be right: "book smarts" mean absolutely nothing compared to actual experience.

But, anyways...

Except for one species, all Penstemon are native to North America. Even the European hybrids have their roots here, species brought to Europe by collectors and botanists, and then reintroduced to this country as garden specimens. There are comparatively few species native to the great plains, and the amount of diversity steadily tapers off the further east you go. They also tend to be far less "vibrant" than their counterparts in west and southwest, typically having white, or very pale pink/lavender flowers.

I am always interested in seeds Liz! I missed your post earlier about the prickly poppy, but if they bloom this summer, I'm definitely interested. The globemallow that grows here on the Front Range is usually pretty small, about 1' tall or less. Unless there's a huge swath of it, or its growing along the road, it can be hard to see in the tall grass. The bulb you might be seeing (and this is just a wild guess on my part) is Calochortus, a beautiful member of the lily family that looks somewhat similar to a tulip. They bloomed like crazy last summer (well, everything did) with all that rain we got and I did collect seed for it, but I lost them. Course, they take years to bloom from seed, and I'm not that patient anyway. There's also native onions like Allium cernuum, wild hyacinth (Camssia spp.) and death camas (Toxicoscordion).

I was thinking about Skybird's zinnias to, so, I have been poking around while looking for other seeds. The ones I have are small flowered, Z. linearis. They are short, but, you said you wanted BIG flowers. SOME places say that Persian Carpet only gets 12-18" (other places put it in the 24-36" range) and Burpee says some of their are in the 12-18" range, but they look like they may be smaller flowered than you're looking for.

Love the pictures TR! I am always in awe of your landscape. That rayless gaillardia is very unique! and I didn't realize the desert marigold was so blue! The picture on my packet is much more green, I'm guessing it's just not the best quality photo. I hope it is anyways, I like the blue much better! Your first picture is most likely P. barbatus (note the reflexed lower "lip" on the flower other red species have this, but are not commonly cultivated) And the Second is P. eatonii (it's lips are "flat" and the basal rosette has the spatulate leaves. Skybird gave me one at the swap that has lanceolate leaves though, so, that may not be a deciding factor). The pink one looks much closer to parryi than pseudospectabilis to me as well. Pseudo had pendulate flowers and the leaves have distinctly toothed margins, similar to palmeri.

BEE BUTT

Palmer's Penstemon.

I'm so tired of these dreary days, looking through photos is cheerful and makes me really anxious for spring. I just started some more seeds today, one is Penstemon baccharifolius aka Rock Penstemon native to Texas (7 or so seeds in the refrigerator currently). This is my second try and the last few seeds, these are not fresh so time will tell.

I'm testing some old Prickly Poppy seeds I got some years ago now that the subject came up, I went and searched for them and now I'm going through my stash. On these old seeds I've got them in damp coffee filters in baggies in a warm spot. I plan to sow them indoors in my large southern window.

Zach, I'll take close up shots this year for a better ID. I'm too lax about ID's.

lizbest, I love penstemons too but when it comes to wintersowing according to specs & rules & regulations described on the forum I am not only a Poser, I'm a Piker. I'm real loose about what I call Wintersowing. Lots of mine are sowed in regular recycled nursery pots or Direct Sowed but I call it WS'ing and.....I usually WS (meaning jugs which in my case are fruit juice clear plastic ones like Apple Juice comes in) in the Fall. I make more use of these jugs for rooting cuttings. I found they work great for that. In Oklahoma the temps are really up and down throughout winter so plants can cook if you are not careful and I never put them in sun. Usually under the carport where the wind doesn't take them to Kansas.

Zach, the Desert Marigolds have not only blue foliage......ITS LIGHT BLUE. Gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous!! The flowers are light bright yellow. The combination is fabulous and the plants are well behaved.

I'm trying winter sowing for the first time this year. I have mine in some large plastic vegetable containers and one shoe box. I am trying: pink hardy hibiscus, Siberian iris, and now I can't recall. Ha. I will let you know if it works. I was intending to share some of the seedlings if it does.

Zach, what I meant was I have no real knowledge of plants--everything I do is on a "try it and see what happens" basis. I've planted things that have become invasive that I have to get rid of when I see them coming up now, otherwise they'll take over the entire bed! My issue isn't as critical because I do have a lot of room--so glad I didn't do that same thing while living in Stonegate!

So those of you who have winter sowed here before, do you leave your planted seeds in full sun, part sun, raised on a table--what's working for you? Our house faces roughly north north-east. My milk jugs are left on the rear deck at the east edge of the part of our deck that is covered. They only get full sun for a couple of hours a day, probably from around 10 or 11 to noon or 1. This seems to be enough light for most to germinate and it seems to keep them from overheating as we get to the warmer spring days--I typically don't have to remove the tops entirely until the night time temps are well into the 50s. For me, I get a very good germination rate compared to what I get planting inside; inside planting has rarely led to a successful seedling in my experience. I do wonder if they would do better in a different spot, though, so am interested in hearing what works for you.

Popmama, I think you'll be impressed with the process! So easy, just make sure you have the drainage holes in the bottom of your containers so you can water them by placing the entire container in water if needed. I've found it necessary to do that probably every 2 weeks or so once we get into March or so here. I completely forgot to put in drainage holes my first year and ended up having to open each container and spray water from a bottle to moisten the soil--certainly NOT the easiest way! I winter sowed hardy hibiscus my first year and got very good germination rates, unfortunately the deer seem to like them just as much as they like rose and daylilies so I've never seen a bloom from those....

Skybird, I planted several varieties of what was advertised as "Alpine Strawberries" that were supposed to be different colors. I probably saved the packets, I'll have to search them out and see what exactly was on the package and where they came from. I did get a few berries last summer from a couple of the plants, all were the tiny red ones, very tasty! I planted some that were supposed to be white, yellow and pink as well but didn't get any berries of the right color. There were several plants that didn't produce flowers or berries at all yet so I'm holding out hope......I move all of the jugs with no seedlings the first spring to the front yard now to put under a big pine so I can keep an eye on them. I'll leave them a 2nd year because of the strawberry seedlings that came up that way. So far that jug has been the only one that I've had viable seedlings from except for baby pines--I'll be saving those to bring to the swap from now on for you!

I did try vegie seeds the 2nd year and got zilch for the effort. I do believe this method works very well for perennial seeds, especially those that require any type of stratification. I've also had some success from annuals but typically only the ones that would self sow anyway like Cosmos and China Asters.

The only seeds I winter sow are ones needing cold stratification-- perennials, trees and shrubs but never annuals or easy perennials. Our winters are much different here, no snow and many warm days so suffice it to say its a different kind of winter and mainly I keep them as consistently cold as possible to meet the stratification needs. I believe people need to adjust the rules to fit the situation and there is no one method that fits all situations with winter sowing. Like Lizbest, a try and see what works best is the way to go, I found the methods I use work best for me after trial and error. I have had dismal results with winter sowing some kinds of seeds, I think rot was the culprit.

I like sowing seeds indoors because its something to watch grow while the outdoor stuff is just sitting out there with not much to check until closer to spring. Thats no fun in January or February and I find I need SOMETHING growing. I use the damp coffee filters in ziplock bags, I can see any germination through the filters, I like being able to do that and check them each day to see whats happened. I only sow a few of each kind.

Today I finally got some potting soil and vermiculite so I am washing out 4" pots, pricking out the germinated seeds to pot up three types that have germinated already. I'll grow all these by a large southern exposure window with a ceiling fan going every day and get a big head start over anything I'd be sowing outside--Texas Grass Sage, the unknown ornamental grass & Prince's Plume (old seed but obviously still viable) have germinated. Its easy to keep the bags warm since the space they take up is minimal --flat bags stacked in a plastic container about a foot away from a heater vent by a bright window, those three types of seed germinated within a week. I've done this method for years now and it works well.

Like Zack I don't like thinning, most times I'd rather use more potting soil and sow in individual pots outside and avoid the dividing up part which I dislike even more than thinning, it seems haphazard to me to do that much disturbance to roots like when there are several seeds in each jug and the jugs take a long time to prepare compared to pots with baggies on top. I use plastic baggies, the snack sizes fit exactly right and snug on top of a 4" square pot for a little greenhouse, I cut two corners for ventilation and all those otherwise useless flats I have from over the years are handy for carrying lots of 4" pots when they need moving and planting.

Do you tape the baggies on, Texasranger2? I'm trying some dahlia seed and a few vegies inside this year--I have the seed already and picked up a heat mat, not sure if I need it, and have a couple of grow lights. All of my windows have overhangs so don't have a lot of natural light.

No, you do not need to tape them. If you have 4" nursery pots and the zip-lock type baggies that are sold as 'snack size' the baggies slip perfectly over the rim of the flexible pots and its a tight fit. You can pick up the whole pot by the baggie and it won't come off, I often grab several that way. The snack bags are half as long as the regular pint size bags so the tops don't sag down if they get wet outdoors, they form a perfect little tent. Cut about 1/2" off the 2 corners and that makes good ventilation holes. I found all this out after my husband accidentally brought home the wrong bags, I needed a use for them.

I had originally planned on useing cell trays under the domes but I was thinking it would be too hard to keep them watered enough. So, I stole Skybird's idea of useing the cups since they hold more volume, they won't dry out as fast. It will also negate the need to separate, though, I tend to sow pretty heavy so thinning will likely be needed if I get good germination (who am I kidding, I'm too soft hearted, and will probably still separate as many as possible).

Also, I HIGHLY recommend the "propogation domes." They are more expensive up front but can be reused several years in a row. This is my second year with the same ones and they are holding up just fine, probably have at least a few more years of life in them. They also make ones with vents similar to what you find on the top of like a Weber grill, they just spin to open and close so you don't have to cut holes in them.

Liz, you probably have far more knowledge of plants and gardening than I do. As I said, actual experience is far more valuable than what I read in books haha. Knowing the function of xylem vs phloem is interesting (to me) but virtually useless in real world application. To be honest, there is probably a significant population of botanists that can't grow a weed despite their vast knowledge of how plants work haha.

Anyway, to the question of exposure, that little cart/table I havey containers on is probably "part sun" or "morning sun, afternoon shade" I don't think to much about the exposure for sprouting seeds outdoors, after all, even a shady spot outside or a strongly overcast day is tens of times brighter than fluorescent bulbs indoors.

I use a heat mat indoors, Liz, I have found it speeds up sprouting time for a lot of things. Most notably hot peppers that can take two weeks+, they generally sprout for me in 5-10 days with a mat. Tomatoes I usually have sprouts in 5-7 days. One thing I have found is covering them helps as well, by reducing the heat lost through evaporation. Always remember to remove the cover AND the mat as soon as they sprout though. Even if they haven't all popped above the soil, once you have one up, the rest usually follow in short order.

I built my first coldframe today. I planted some Mighty Midget (extra dwarf) peas. This will be my first adventure into winter growing.

Thanks for the advice, Zach! I'll try the heat mat for the tomatoes as well as a cover. I have lots of seed for tomatoes and herbs, maybe I'll have a few different varieties for the spring swap with your advice!

For covers (because my bona-fide "propagation domes" are used up outdoors, and I never have an entire flat worth of cell trays at one time anyways) I use the shower-cap looking things you put over your leftovers when you loose the lid to your tupperware, or saran wrap works fine too. Although, I have to admit, I have "personal issues" with saran wrap, it always ends up a wadded up mess for me haha.

The covers make it so that water can't evaporate, so you shouldn't need to water your seeds until after they sprout...often a few days or more after they germinate. This is a double edged sword, it's nice because you don't have to worry about them drying out as they are trying to "wake up" and germinate, and it keeps the heat from your mat from evaporating away into the air. BUT the warm, humid environment basically turns your seed starting into petri dishes for bacteria and fungi that can cause unpleasant things like damp off. That's why it crucial to remove the extra warmth and the cover as soon as possible. Some people wait until like 50% of the seeds are up, but I don't. Like I said, if one is up, the rest have likely germinated and will poke their little heads above the soil very soon after that first one. I also put a fan on my seedlings to increase air flow around the plants to help ward off the nasties (it also helps to make them grow shorter and stockier)... We could (should?) start another thread on starting things indoors if you want, so I don't run this one off the rails AGAIN!

I have a ton of shower caps, that should work for a cover, right? Think I'm ready to try it inside again! Maybe we should start that other string, Zach! I'll be asking lots of questions--want to get it right this time....

Yup shower caps are perfect! Go ahead and start a thread with your questions Liz! I'm sure between all of us here who start seeds indoors, this year will be a good one for you!

Greg, like your coldframe setup.

Finished sowing seeds last weekend, ended up with 30 jugs this year. There are duplicate seeds in a few. This is what I planted: Candy Lily, Siberian Iris Caesar's Brother, Siberian Iris Butter and Sugar, Columbine Dorothy Rose, Columbine Swan Yellow, Columbine Lime Sorbet, Anemone Pulsatillas Vulgaris, Pulsatilla Violet Pasque Flower, Aster Callistephus Dwarf Milady Mix, Aruncus Noble Spirits, Aster Callistephus Tall Paeony Duchess Mix, Aster Callistephus Tall Double Gremlin Mix, Catchfly Silene Armeria, Crepis-Pink Hawksbeard, Aster Unicum Needle Mix, Godetia Grandiflora Sybil, Aster Seastar, Blackberry Lily Freckle Face, Geum Chiloerise Mrs Brasdshaw, Showy Obedient Plant (white), Turk's Cap Lily, Palmer's Penstemon, Pale Beardtongue and Northern Blue Flag. And here's my set up. Can you tell I was in the Army? All lined up with the handles facing the same direction....

One trick that I came up with is to heat a sharp knife on the stove to poke holes into the cut in half jugs leaving the end uncut for a hinge. I leave the lids on and poke several holes in the bottom 1/2 and top the top half for air circulation and drainage.

Next I poke a hole on the top half and one on the bottom half close to the middle cut on the opposite end of the hinge. Its easy to thread a twist-tie through these two holes and then twist it shut to keep the cut jug closed, you can open the whole thing up when its close to spring but close it back again easily if a cold front is coming through. It eliminates the need for sticky tape.

In spring and into summer I continually reuse two or three containers to root cuttings. If I run into a plant I see and I want to try to root while I am out or just want more plants from ones in my garden or from a purchased plant that has a broken stem a jug or two are already cut and handy to use, I usually have a couple already filled with potting soil from cuttings I've done before, I just untwist the tie and stick the cutting with root hormone into the jug, keep in the shade for a couple weeks or so to root. I have gotten a lot of free plants from doing this and its addictive. If I buy a plant with a broken stem, I usually end up with two plants.

You guys are right, there is no one prescribed way. Its best to adapt gardening methods to your own needs. On that note, my own garden is my favorite garden because its the one that has all the plants I like in it with the different history's of how I got them. Over the years I've come to use these jugs more for rooting than growing seeds. A cutting grows into a plant much faster than a seedling, is usually easy to root and the different kinds of plants that you can start this way is endless and surprisingly easy.

I use my smallest cordless drill and a fairly small bit for the drainage holes and scissors to cut around to open the jug, leaving just the area around the handle whole for the hinge. I'll keep in mind the holes/twist tie idea, probably would be more efficient than tape to keep the tops closed!

I finally remembered the other thing I planted! Red lupines. I hope these all work out. Lizbest: WOW, you have quite a collection there. You'll be ready for Spring Swap, no doubt!

I hope so, Popmama! The asters did incredibly well last time I tried them, beautiful flowers and they self sow as do the columbine. I haven't had a lot of luck with winter sowing iris but a forum friend sent some seeds so I'm trying again. I have 3 jugs of Candy Lily already but if it's like Blackberry Lily it'll probably just be breaking soil when we have the spring swap! I'm trying dahlia cuttings this spring as well, if all goes as it should I'll have some baby dahlias to trade, too!

Well, Liz, your picture gave me the boost I needed to get the rest of mine done. I did the parsley, dill, and breadseed poppies this afternoon. 56 containers in total, if you count each cup as "1."I'm actually really excited about those cups, should save me quite a bit of work when/if they start growing. I also found out one of the dill seeds I had handy was a dwarf variety, supposed to only get about 1-2' tall, so that will be perfect for a container.

I use an exacto knife and scissors for cutting open jugs and putting in drainage. The exacto seems to cut a little easier than my pocket knife

And yes, your slight OCD belies your prior service haha. Which, by the way, thank you.

Do your jugs MARCH when you want them to, Liz??? ;-D

Thank you for your service! You too, Zach!

Skybird

That'd be handy when I needed to move them from the back deck to the front for planting, Skybird! Unfortunately they must've been ordered not to break formation by a higher authority then me!

I think if I end up doing any more containers this winter that I'll try the Styrofoam cups as well. Milk jugs are such a pain to store for winter sowing, I end up losing one of my bathroom cabinets just to keep them out of sight until they're needed. Even bigger advantage needing no scissors to get the seedlings out in the spring.

I use a serrated steak knife to cut open the jugs. I think I will try scissors because the knife method is like fingernails on a chalkboard, the sound is loud and sounds terrible, besides, I always feel like I'm going to injure my hand because its rough going when there's several jugs.

I've never heard of red lupine. Just purple ones. I sowed some echinacea seeds today.

Finally getting around to actually doing my winter sowing! I picked out most of the seeds more than a
week ago, then got waylaid on other things!
Actually, the seeds aren’t quite “in the pots” yet, but will be in the
next day or two for sure! Today I wrote
the names on all the “pots,” and then (living dangerously!) I looked thru my
seeds again—just to be sure! Yeah, I
added a few more! THEN I got my two big
flat storage boxes in—which had been sitting in the garage with all the other
Great Unwashed Masses out there, and washed them—in the kitchen sink—kinda! Ok, so not really IN the sink! Kind of “hanging over all the edges of the
sink! [Note to self! Be sure to wash them out in the yard with the
hose next time while it’s still warm enough outside—so I don’t need to mop up a
couple inches of water from everything within 4’ of the kitchen sink!] So, the “pots” are ready, the “boxes” are
ready, and I brought soil in last week while it was actually thawed enough to
be able to get it out of the bale! All I
need to do now is to fill the pots and put some seeds in all of them!

Here’s what I’m doing this year! I know, before I even start, that some of
these will not germinate! Some of them
are OLDE seeds, some going back to things I collected when I was at Paulino’s,
which is at least 16 years ago, and a few that are even older than that! I do not give up on seeds easily! Some of them are also seed that was collected
from hybrids, so, if they germinate, it’ll be interesting to see “what I wind
up with!” So, I’ll see what comes up
over the next few months. And THEN,
assuming at least some of them germinate, comes the REAL problem! Where on earth am I gonna plant all this
stuff!

1 - Aquilegia
‘McKana’s Giant’ mixed

1 - Aquilegia,
mixed – from ProvoGirl

2 - Aquilegia saximontana – dwarf Rocky
Mountain blue columbine

1 - Aquilegia
vulgaris ‘Magpie’

2 - Armeria
pseudarmeria – false sea thrift, large-flowered thrift

1 - Aubretia
hybrida superbissima – mixed, rockcress

1 - Astrantia
major, masterwort

1 - Catananche
caerulea, Cupid’s Dart

2 - Colchicum
autumnale, autumn crocus

1 - Delphinium
chinensis ‘Blue Mirror’

2 - Dianthus
barbatus, tall mixed, Sweet William

1 - Dianthus
barbatus, tall brite red, Sweet William

1 - Dianthus
barbatus ‘Wee Willie’, Sweet William

1 - Dianthus
barbatus, extra dwarf mixed, Sweet William

1 - Dianthus
chinensis ‘Velvet ‘N Lace’

1 - Digitalis
ferruginea, rusty foxglove

1 - Digitalis
lutea, straw foxglove

1 - Echinacea
purpurea, white

1 - Echinacea
purpurea ‘Starlight’

1 - Echinops
bannaticus, globe thistle – for Maryanne

1 - Gaillardia
‘Fanfare’ – don’t think this will come true from seed!

1 - Iberis
sempervirens, candytuft

1 - Lilium
formosanum

1 - Papaver
alpinum, alpine poppy

1 - Papaver
nudicaule, Iceland poppy, golden yellow-orange

1 - Papaver
nudicaule, ‘Sparkling Bubbles’ – Iceland poppy

1 - Penstemon,
dwarf mix – A (possibly from ‘Rondo’)

1 - Penstemon,
unknown – B (possibly ‘Rondo’)

1 - Penstemon
‘Riding Hook’ (seed from a hybrid!)

1 - Penstemon –
seed from hike at Piedmont, S. D. – some kind of shell Penstemon, P
grandiflorus?

1 - Penstemon
digitalis ‘Mystica’

1 - Picea
pungens, blue spruce – very olde seed!

1 - Polemonium
‘Blue Pearl’, Jacob’s Ladder

1 - Primula
veris, cowslip primrose

1 - Primula
vialii, Chinese pagoda primrose

1 - Rudbeckia
hirta ‘Denver Daisy’

1 - Rudbeckia
hirta ‘Goldilocks’

1 - Rudbeckia
hirta ‘Indian Summer’

1 - Rudbeckia
hirta ‘Ruby Gold’

1 - Rudbeckia
hirta ‘Rustic Colors’

1 - Rudbeckia
hirta, generic!

1 - Trollius,
unknown species (Park seed!)

1 - Trollius
chinensis ‘Golden Queen’, globeflower

5 - Cutting
celery

6 - Parsley

After I get them done I’ll take some pics to show you all
how I do “my” winter sowing, with “cups and storage boxes!”

Skybird

P.S. Zach, I found
the shell-leaf Penstemon seed I mentioned on another thread, that I collected
at the place where I was staying at Piedmont, S. D. a couple years ago, and
I’ll make a packet of it for you and plan to bring it to the next swap we’ll
both be at!

What is that, 60 or so containers, Skybird? I see you have some blue spruce, I have always been curious about winter sowing tree seeds, just to see how it works. Then I realize I don't really like most trees, and I'd have no purpose for them beyond my short lived fascination and "wow, look what I did!"

I wound up having 5 open slots in one of my starter flats for cups, and seeing an unevenly full one was driving me nuts. I have a bucket of lavender seed heads from this past fall, so I shook a few of them out and sowed 5 cups cups with them.

But, I am now officially done wintersowing and looking ahead to starting indoors later this month. A few perennials and herbs which take either take a while to germinate and are slow growers (agastache, little bluestem, trying some parsley indoors) and hot peppers get seeded at the beginning of the last week in February.

Well, I added a Cimicifuga racemosa, black cohosh, and then I found an old pack of 'Pacific Giants' Delphinium and added one of them, so now I'm up to exactly 60 "potential" plants, Zach! Cimicifuga can supposedly take YEARS to germinate, so that one will be interesting! And I went thru them all today and put the dates of the seed down on my list, and that blue spruce seed is from 1977! It was a free packet I got somewhere, sometime, somehow! If any of those seeds germinate I'll be in shock! Not sure how many are in the packet, but I'll put them all in the pot! Nothing ventured, nothing gained! And if anything DOES come up, I'll take them out to Towaoc with me and they can get planted in a "wet place" somewhere up on Sleeping Ute Mountain! The peony Liz gave me at last spring's swap didn't make it, but four conifers came up in the pot, and two of the four have survived and that's what I'm planing to do with them. Both Barb and I are pretty sure they're blue spruce! They sure are BLUE! So it'll be fun to see what happens with those particular olde seeds!

An FYI about the parsley you're planning to start inside. The reason I'm winter sowing mine this year is that last year I couldn't get anything to work for starting them warm inside! I've done it in the past, but I tried over three times last year and even then only wound up with a couple tiny, tiny little seedlings to eventually put in the ground. I usually start two or three for my neighbor who loves to make pesto, but I didn't have any at all to give her last year. So, since they're "cold plants," I decided to see how winter sowing would work this year. You might want to consider starting a couple cold too, tho I can't really guarantee you that'll work better than warm since this is the first time I'm trying it, but if you get extras, they could always go to the swap--or somebody at work or something!

Also, earlier this evening it dawned on me that I had a pic of the Penstemon I got the seed from in S. D. It doesn't really show a whole lot, but it'll give you a little bit of an idea of the leaves on the plant at least. I'm calling it a "shell Penstemon" because of the leaves, and also the size of the seed pods. If either of us ever get a plant out of the seed, it'll be interesting to speculate what it is for sure! The second pic is taken from the top of the "hill" that the plants were growing on, and the little house on the bottom of the hill is where I was staying (not the big house across the way). Much of the hillside had burned in a wildfire at some point, but I have no idea how many years it was before I was there.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/HHTlH-g09e8Rb3gI4Ez1ZefJDs45DQT822cj-7Rg0a0?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/-0j7bGscTXZRILMg5m6qx-fJDs45DQT822cj-7Rg0a0?feat=directlink

I potted some geraniums I had been starting in water today, but tomorrow the winter sowing seeds will get done. I know this is late compared to the rest of you, but compared to the first two times I winter sowed, this is way early for me!

Skybird

Edited to add: I recommend you winter sow your Agastache seed too, Zach! Here's why! Years ago I got some Agastache seed (from a hybrid) from HiAlt, and I tried a couple times to start it inside--never got anything at all to germinate. Then, when I winter sowed the second time I decided to try it that way, and that's when I finally got a couple seeds to germinate! That doesn't prove it'll work for yours too, but it sure was what worked for me. Winter sowing is also how I finally--after 2-3 tries indoors--got the Penstemon seed I collected in Utah (P, eatonii?) to FINALLY germinate. Exposing the seed of hardy perennials to the variable outside temps really does seem to be an easy--and natural--way to start them.

I think 60 is about where I am. Though, I sow multiple containers of the same thing so I don't have the variety you have. I may have run through this before but lets see I've got....

Penstemons:
Rocky Mountain
Palmer's
Firecracker
Sawsepal

Gaillardia 'Goblin'
Purple coneflower
Rudbeckia 'Goldstum'
Desert marigold
Lavender (English, probably 'Munstead')
Colorado blue columbine
Silvery lupine
California poppy
Dill 'Dukat'/'Tetra' & 'Fernleaf'
Breadseed/opium poppy 'Hungarian blue'
Parsley 'Italian flat leaf'

I think that's everything.

I also started some little bluestem seeds indoors that I collected from outside. It may be too early, but, they were free so, no big loss. I'm waffling on whether or not start some big bluestem that I collected this summer, I just cut down a very ugly, lopsided pinon pine and need something kind of big to replace it with, I might save that spot for a big miscanthus or giant sacaton grass though.

1977!!! It will sure be interesting to see if they sprout, Skybird! If I had lots of room, I do like blue spruce, but they get HUGE and I'm not entirely sure they are "happy" down here, kind of like aspens. All the ones I see in peoples yards look stressed to me.

I did winter sow about 5 cups worth of parsley with my dill but there is still A LOT of seed left over in that one packet (and I hold back when I sowed those cups) so I am going to give it a shot indoors as well. Any extras will definitely be going to the swap, and probably a couple to my neighbor who I usually give tomato plants to in the spring and she gives me ripe winter squash in the fall, kind of like an "extended swap", or investment if you will.

I would definitely agree with shell leaf penstemon, Skybird! Those leaves look like it to me! Plus, there amount of penstemon species in the eastern part of country is very small compared to the mountains/southwest, and P. grandiflorus is one of them! It will be fun to see what they turn into! I am also getting really excited for the penstemon you gave me at the swap. It should give me a few flowers at least this year, and if it is eatonii, thats an early flowering one, so maybe in just a couple more months. I have it planted in almost pure sand and I swear it looks bigger every time I see it, and still GREEN right now! I have a picture somewhere, I think on my phone, from the last time the snow melted off of it a week or two ago.

That's beautiful country there, too. Is that in the Black Hills? One of the most beautiful landscapes in the United States, in my opinion. Speaking of fires and penstemons, after the Hayman fire in 2002 the entire burn scar was a field of rocky mountain penstemon, seed that had been laying dormant for who knows how long waiting to take advantage of the nutrients from the burned trees and the light that before was blocked by the dense canopy.

I did agastache indoors last year and it germinated great, but if I remember correctly, the heat mat helped immensely. The only thing is I found it to be a very slooooooooooooooooow grower. Even at the end of the summer they were still puny. I ended up giving them to my brother to fill in his front yard (which faces due-south and bakes in the sun all day and he doesn't have a sprinkler system so we got rid of his weed patch and replaced it with all xeric plants and small patch of buffalo grass). I would do it both ways, but I don't have very much seed for it this year. The company I buy it from, their "supplier" had a crop failure last year so, I couldn't get any this year unless I buy it online from someone else (and I am not going to pay shipping for one packet of seeds lol). Anyway, I only have a few A. rupestris seeds left over from last years seed packet (good thing I bought two last year) and a few A. cana I collected from my 'Sonoran sunset' this fall. The Sonoran Sunset reseeds itself in the late summer and early fall before we get frost, so I don't think cold strat is important to it, and since I had good luck with the rupestris seed without cold strat last year and I only have a few seeds, I'm going with it, lol.

Yeah! 1977! I said some of my seeds were OLDE! But you never know until you try! If any of them germinate I probably won’t
even need to post it! You’ll hear me
EEEEEE-HAA’ing!!! If they’re planted in
a WET spot, blue spruce do just find down here—and yes, they get HUGE, which is
why I won’t be keeping any of them—if any of them DO germinate! [In 1966 my husband (at the time) and I moved
into a “townhouse type” apartment (front and back doors) and by the back door
there was a tiny little square of rock-hard “soil” with a horribly battered,
and very small, blue spruce. After
crying for it, I pruned it “even” as best as I could, watered it, and thought
good thoughts over it! It was right at
the bottom of a downspout, so whenever we got rain it got dumped on. By the second year it was getting so big it
was starting to grow in front of the door, and from then on out I had to keep
it pruned back enough be able to get in and out, but after a couple more years,
and a few more “evening out” prunings, it developed into a truly beautiful
tree! My guess is that after we left it
was eventually cut down! Why don’t
people understand that a “cute little tree or bush” in a pot is gonna get
BIG—it’s not gonna grow to “fit their spot!”]

It’ll be interesting to see how your warm/cold parsley seeds
compare to each other! I was pulling my
hair out last year trying to start the stuff inside and just wasn’t sure I
wanted to deal with that again this year.
Actually, I scattered lots, and lots and lots and lots, of parsley seed
outside last fall—from a couple I let go to seed, so it’ll also be very
interesting to see if I wind up with a forest of plants out there too! The dill comes up out there no matter what it
do or don’t do, but I’ve never had a volunteer parsley come up yet! Experiment!
[And if I DO wind up with a forest of it, I’ll be inundating the swap
with it!!!]

Interesting that you’ve easily germinated Agastache warm
when I had such a problem with it! I
wonder if the species make any difference!

Fire is amazing stuff!
Human beings tend to see it as destructive stuff, but Mother Nature
knows how Creative it is!

Yeah, it’s the Black Hills.
Piedmont is just north of Rapid City—it’s where I happened to find a
place to stay that I could afford! 2012
was a “year of fires, and you can see a little bit of the haze in the air in
the second pic. I went to The Journey
Museum while I was there, and it’s an amazing place. Also did both the “candlelight” and the
“natural entrance” tours at Wind Cave.
If you ever tour a cave and they have a candlelight or flashlight/lantern
tour I WAY recommend doing it! It’s
almost beyond belief how much “more” you see when you’re there with almost no
light! (The pic below was taken on the
“regular” tour—no flash allowed on the candlelight tour!)

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/cvzNRyaWNjtbhRo4aoxJhefJDs45DQT822cj-7Rg0a0?feat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/eWupEV4sLyRECXxq46iHFufJDs45DQT822cj-7Rg0a0?feat=directlink

‘Sonoran Sunset’ is a hybrid, isn’t it? I don’t think it’ll come true from seed. (But it’ll still smell good!)

If you ever need more P. strictus seed, I have LOTS! And the offer for the dill seed still stands
too! I originally planted a couple
“different types” too, including a “shorter” one, and I could never tell any
difference between them! They all got
WAY taller than I was expecting! (And
that’s really interesting since most of my perennials are SHORTER than they’re
supposed to be!) I have LOTS of
‘Goldsturm’ seed too! No point in buying
things you can get free!

Skybird

Our neighbors moved last summer to the new development off C470 and Alameda, "Solterra." Typical new development, with thumbnail sized yards and strict HOA's. It is required for them to have a tree in their front yard. Sure, they may put the effort into finding a tree that fits such a tight space (not that there are many), but chances are they, and everyone else, will opt for the typical suburban choices. When they pick it up from the nursery in it's 3 gallon pot it will look fine. But, I imagine tree removal services are going to have a heyday in these neighborhoods in the not too distant future.

I wonder if there's any good dwarf blue spruce varieties available? I'm imagining an amazing alpine/rock garden type bed that would look great with a small 5-10' blue spruce. That may be stretching it for a tree that typically grows several stories tall...

Anyways, I'll be listening for your victory whoop Skybird. Can't some tree seeds take years to sprout? For some reason I think I saw that somewhere.

So, I lightly rubbed the parsley seeds with 100 grit sandpaper, because some people recommend scarification. Now they are soaking in water because I have seen some people suggest this too. Not sure if they are right (it's all anecdotal evidence I scanned through over on the 'herb' forum) but, what the heck, it's worth a shot I guess. I'm pretty much banking on the winter sown ones, the indoors is just to "see what happens" and hopefully get a few extra plants out of the deal. Since they can supposedly take up to three weeks to germinate, I figure now isn't too terribly early, but, I don't know, parsley is new for me.

What kind of agastache were you starting, Skybird? Last year I sowed the rupestris twice. The first time I didn't use the heat mat or cover them and they were on the bottom shelf and kind of got neglected and dried out. So, I re-sowed, covered and put on a heat mat. I reused to soil, with the seeds from the first sowing. Wouldn't you know it, about three days after the second sowing I had sprouts! I later came to the realization that were seeds from the FIRST sowing (which also showed up in my eggplants seedlings, lol), but not long after that the rest of them germinated too. For some reason I didn't record how many days it took the second set of seeds to sprout, but scratching my brain it was probably somewhere between 1-2 weeks. I did record when I sowed the first set, on 22 March, and when those first sprouts popped up in my second set, 4 April, so that's pretty much two weeks right? 13 days by my math. I want to say sprouts from the second batch of seeds was quicker, since they didn't get forgotten and had the heat mat the whole time.

I think Sonoran Sunset is either a sport or a selection of the species, rather than a hybrid, but I'm not sure. In either case, the seeds will likely not come true (commercially they only propagate it via clones), but I'm hoping it still has the "bubblemint" flavor that their parent has. I would just buy more, and likely will, but, I want to see what kind of children it produces, too. Hey, you never know, I could have the next great A. cana variety in my little envelope haha!

Wait, I just thought of something...agastache is in the mint family, and a lot of mint family plants root from cuttings like crazy, I wonder if agastaches will too. I'm going to have to try it this summer.

I am nearly out of P. strictus seeds, even though the packet I got seemed to go on forever. I did buy a packet 'Goldsturm' when I was gathering my seeds for winter sowing. That packet seemed mighty "light in the loafers" compared to other things I bought. I will probably do more of them next year, and I'll just bug you for some seeds rather then buying them :p.

Fire is indeed an important creative force, especially here in west. The lack of fire turned the entire Rocky Mountains into what National Geographic called a "beetle buffet," the crowded, overgrown forests helping bark beetles spread faster and over more area than they would otherwise. In some areas there are three times as many mature pines (and in others I'm sure more than that) than what existed before European settlement. While I can understand it somewhat, after all, here on the Front Range the population density in the mountains makes any kind of burning, even controlled, very dangerous (like the Lower North Fork Fire just a couple years ago). However, at the same time the health of our forest is in pretty significant decline.

We stayed a few days in Hot Springs in 2011 not long after we moved back to Colorado It was fairly close to Wind Cave NP and Custer SP. We did the tour of Wind Cave, but not the candle tour. We didn't visit the Journey Museum, but we did see the Mammoth Site which was really cool! I'll have to dig up pictures of that...

The Agastache I grew from seed was from seed of A. rupestris 'Apache Sunset' that HiAlt from Silt sent me one year when we were doing seed trades on RMG. 'Apache Sunset' has quite large flowers, but when I finally got it to germinate and it bloomed, the flowers on mine are very small, pretty much like I remember the A. r. straight species flowers to be. When Kelly was here one time I asked him about it and he said that what I had was definitely not what's sold as 'Apache Sunset'. (The hummers don't care what size the flowers are!) But it is possible to buy seed online for it, so I don't know if that seed is grown in isolation or if people just get the "small flowered" version and don't know the difference or what! If flowers aren't your main objective, I do believe you'll get a scent that is the same as or very close to your original.

Interesting that you think your "original" seed "finally" came up! Some things definitely do take their time coming up, and, for me at least, that's one of the good things about winter sowing! I don't HOVER over the winter sown stuff and pout when I don't see a plant in 48 1/2 hours! More often than not I have things coming up sooner than I'm expecting with winter sowing! When I sow stuff inside I start worrying a week after I seed them if I can't "see them yet!"

I think you're TORTURING your parsley seed!!! Stop it! Seriously, I've started it inside with no problem several times in the past (without torturing it!), and I don't have a clue what went wrong last year! But I really am expecting the winter sown stuff to work well--and if it doesn't, well, at least I won't have wasted any energy HOVERING over it!

REMIND me before the next swap about the P. s. and the 'Goldsturm' seeds! I'm serious! I promise people stuff and then if they don't remind me it usually gets forgotten. So I have lots of seed and I'm glad to bring them for you, but you must remind me!

Skybird

P.S. you may be right about starting Agastache from cuttings--but I don't know! Since they're a "semi-woody" plants I've never tried it! But it WOULD be interesting to know if it works!

I can't find a lot of information on 'Apache Sunset' Skybird, but the pictures on both Missouri Botanic Gardens "plant finder" and the plant sold by Monrovia as "Apache sunset" both look like typical species A. rupestris to me. I did see some pictures with "fuller" flower spikes that are also much more orange/red at the places you can buy seeds.

With A. cana 'Sonoran Sunset' it is like what you describe for 'Apache Sunset' supposed to have much large flowers than the species and also be a little shorter. My guess is that I will get a plant that has the same, or nearly so, flower color but the flowers themselves will be smaller and the plant might be bigger. My main goal is #1 that fun bubblegum smell as well as having the colors match the plant I already have. And you're right, the hummers really DON'T care! I had a female broad tailed hanging out at my A.r. all summer last year (A plant I purchased) she also loved my Jacob Cline bee balm.

I don't usually worry about indoor stuff until about a week as well. If I don't see sprouts by day 8 I get anxious, not just because of impatience, but also because I worry about things like mold that starts to show up in the little pots. What do you know, the little bluestem seed I collected from outside started popping up last night! I think I've only got 2-3 nearly microscopic little ones, but, its a start, and it was 8 days yesterday (I count the day they get sown as day 0), right on schedule.

UPDATE: I just checked again, and the A. rupestris seeds have started to sprout, too (thats only 4-5 days!!) I was HOPING that not using a heat mat they would take longer, like a week or two, but, here they are, rough and ready to go! The A. cana have also started to germinate, they are surface sown so I can see the radicle starting to emerge from the seed coat.

Yeah, I guess that was a little "torturous" haha, If I had more starting cells, I would try some without the torture and compare them... So far, no sprouts, but it has only been a few days for those guys.

I forget things all the time. Like who I promised tomato starts to at the spring swap.... I will remind you though.

I had a small expectation to see some sprouts after these days of 50's and 60's but I have not, haha. The grass is breaking dormancy though.

The A. cana we used to sell at Paulino's was called "double bubble mint!" It was AMAZING! If you ever get one that really, really smells like bubble gum and get some seed from it, I'd love to have a few seeds to start one for my friend down at Towaoc! She LOVES scented things, and has hot, dry, full sun to plant it in!

I just got my winter sown seeds done a few days ago--decided to wait till the extreme cold overnite temps were over, but now with this new "extreme" WARM weather I'm worried that the seeds are gonna germinate "too soon," and then it's gonna get COLD out again! Actually, even if that does happen, the things I have out there will be fine--it's just that I'll tend to worry about them once I can "see them!" The warm weather is supposed to go on for at least another week, and I'm almost certain the poppies will be up by then. For now I'm trying to "insulate" them during the day to keep them as cold as I can. It's just a whole lot easier to take care of them when they're still seeds than it is when they're plants!

Skybird

I have double bubble mint. I believe I got mine at Harlequin Gardens in Boulder, but I'm not sure. I will try to pay more attention to seed collection this year.

I had to move my wintersown stuff, before they were right next to the shed, and when the snow melts off the roof, it tends to "slide" in huge chunks and land right on top of them, either knocking them over or crushing them.

No sign of anything happening out there, except there MIGHT be a silvery lupine popping up, hard to tell from the hole in a milk jug. Im hoping that they stay asleep at least until late March when we should be nearly done with the REALLY cold temperatures... the fact we get below freezing for extended periods at night I hope keeps them from doing too much.

I will definitely get you some seeds if any turn out really good. The Sonoran has a good, strong bubblegum scent (though I have never "met" a double bubble mint, so I'm not sure how it compares) but I can also get you some seeds from that.

Well, it's just as you said, poppies are starting to germinate in the WS containers. No greenery yet, but with the surface sown stuff you can see the seed coat starting to peel away and the radicle emerge as it pokes itself down into the soil. The silvery lupines, which are covered, seemed to have been forced a little too close to the surface, there is definitely one that had germinated, but it's got a bad case of "helmet head" and it might be hard for it to shed the seed coat. I didn't have very many only about 15 seeds, so every one sort of counts in this case....

I opened my two "containers" a couple days ago when I added a Delphinium 'Black Knight' from the Fedco order I had just received, and so far, for me, not even any poppies showing--but mine had only been out there for just over a week when I looked so I would have been pretty surprised if even they had germinated. I think I'll check them in a couple days again. This WARM weather could really start messing with things! I have them on my deck, in FULL shade, and I have them covered with a couple blankets to keep them as cold as possible during the day.

I'm not sure if this qualifies as Winter Sowing or not, but today I sowed seed for 2 kinds of lettuce, 2 kinds of spinach, and some of the 'Lu Lan' Bok Choy seed I got from Digit a few years ago, in a 28" x 7" x 6" deep "window box type" planter. It's also out on the deck, but in a place where it will get a little bit of sun every day. When/if anything comes up, they're already where they're going to be grown! Whenever I've sown lettuce/spinach seed in the (potter's clay) ground here, it's bolted IMMEDIATELY! I've been wanting to try it this way, in a "pot," for several years and just never got around to doing it while it was still cold out! It'll be interesting to see how it works! If it works in spring I think I'll resow some in early fall when I can, hopefully, have a little fresh spinach and lettuce for at least a while into "winter!"

Skybird

Now what? The red lupines have sprouted in the winter sow box outside. What do I do? I think the are far too delicate to go in the ground just yet. They won't be able to get very big in their little outdoor greenhouses.

They will probably grow veeeeeerrrrrry slowly Mama they should be fine in there for a while. My lupines sprouted a couple weeks ago, and don't seem to have grown at all since then, the cold nights keeping them pretty small.

You will have to "harden them off" though I'm not sure how to do it with winter sowing, I just kind of wing it and then pout when some stuff dies, but then remind myself I don't need 300 of each plant haha.

Lupine seeds are such big bean seeds, I direct sow them in fall. I soak and nick, then plant the seeds. This year they came up while I wasn't paying attention and wintered over, the plants are about 4" tall with lots of leaves. Maybe different kinds should be treated differently but I'd read this is the easiest way to sow lupines, mine are a native type which is the only kind I've dealt with.

None of my winter sown shrub seeds have germinated yet but I did see one tiny sand penstemon. If I get only one, I'll be happy.

3 days ago, I moved the plants that had been repotted into individual 4" pots that were sown indoors. Its only 2 flats but it makes it easy to whisk inside. We are having an unusually warm late winter & early spring and things are moving fast this year. The annuals and West Texas Sage are now nice size, some of the perennials are still quite small, I'm keeping them in pots until they get larger.