I was just thinking about the possibility of a hybrid between pear and quince, but then I read that Luther Burbank tried this and most of the seedlings had stunted growth, and after grafting some cuttings onto an apple tree for a few years he was unable to obtain any fruit. (Luther Burbank: Methods and Discoveries 4: 138-140, (1914))

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"...the passé-crassane, is actually a pear-quince hybrid that was developed in Normandy. It is particularly useful in cooking because of its firm, grainy flesh, but it is also tasty eaten raw."

The 150 Healthiest Foods on Earth: The Surprising, Unbiased Truth about What You Should Eat and Why, by Jonny Bowden, p144

I just read that 'Orange' Quince is edible raw. It has a very low tannin content so is not astringent, although one review said it was tart like a bad granny smith apple and only tasted satisfactory.

http://fruitmaven.com/2009/12/orange-quince/

I was a little skeptical about the passe crassane pear actually being a pear-quince hybrid. It certainly looks like it might be a hybrid from the shape and slightly more yellowish color (though there are plenty of pear varieties which are yellow). I found a random mention in a wine blog that stated "It smells like quinces and pears, especially the Passe-Crassane pear..." so I am assuming this implies that the Passe Crassane at least has a note of quince in its aroma.

I found this in another blog: "Finally, we get to the Passe Crassane – my all time favourite pear which comes into season in December – they are exquisite in mulled wine. They come from the Rouen region and retain the most juice and best flavour of all pears. Again location is key and, for me, these pears are always better from the Paris area than from the Alps. These pears ripen over time and the stems are sealed with a blob of wax so that they will continue to ripen and won’t dry out. It’s this that helps to keep the flavour and juiciness of the Passe Crassane pear all winter." http://www.wellocks.co.uk/flavours-of-deme-of-the-year/

I have also done some research into grafting compatibilities, and Passe Crassane happens to be one of the few pear varieties that is considered compatible on quince rootstock, so that at least is consistent with it supposedly being a hybrid.

Here is a picture of a Passe Crassane: http://www.arboreumco.com/store/products/passe-crassane

They can develop a much more yellow color if allowed to ripen further on the tree: http://www.mouneyracfreres.com/en/img/produits/cat_p1_passecrassane_img.png

"Nurun Burun, whose name, I believe, means graceful smell in Turkish, had the texture of a soft ripe pear but the indescribably fantastic aroma of a fine quince and not a hint of astringency –a once in a lifetime pear"

http://www.cookingissues.com/index.html%3Fp=4953.html

Apparently there is one growing at the Brogdale rare fruit collection in Kent.

The edibility of most fresh quince depends on how thinly you slice them. The trick is to not chew on too much at one time.

It also helps if the quince is allowed to fully ripen, as yellow as possible. I read that the Portuguese Quince is sometimes edible raw. Some consider the Pineapple Quince to be edible raw, but it is still very hard and not something most people are going to want to eat.

I do not think there is any quince that is truly good for eating raw without cooking, but there are some varieties that are much better than others in this regard. Ah, the elusive quest for a quince that can be eaten out of hand like an apple. Quince has the most exquisite flavor and aroma to it, like the finest pear, but not really like pear.

I can eat a quince. I took a bite, then hesitantly took a few more bites. I did not eat the whole thing, but I did not feel the need to spit it out either. I've had Hachiya persimmons that were worse...

You know, this has got me thinking about whether Comice could possibly have some distant quince ancestor in its makeup. I read that they have developed a new winter pear variety called "Angelys", which supposedly could replace Passe Crasane. It resulted from a cross between Doyenné d’Hiver and Comice. And Comice is one of the pear varieties that is compatible on quince rootstock. Maybe hundreds of years ago some quince pollen pollinated a pear blossom without anyone realizing what had taken place. Doyenné d’Hiver (known in English as "Easter Beurre") definitely looks like it could have some quince genes, very round shape, skin is a pale yellowish color, structure of the seeds in the interior also seems reminiscent of quince. But all this speculation could be completely wrong.

The thought also crossed my mind, this could explain why Passe Crassane is so extremely susceptible to fire blight, any pear-quince hybrid that was able to grow successfully is likely to have a very compromised immune response.

"Lynne Rossetto Kasper: Are there any quinces that can be eaten fresh?

David Karp: For years I'd heard tantalizing tales of varieties so sweet and juicy they can be eaten like apples but were found only in distant places like Latin America or Central Asia. Then a few years ago I met Edgar Valdivia at the California Rare Fruit Growers Festival of Fruit in Los Angeles. He had a non-astringent fruit that grows in southern Peru that smelled like a quince, had a true quince flavor, but was sweet and juicy and closer to an apple in that regard than a quince. For people who like quince flavor, it's a revelation."

http://www.splendidtable.org/story/the-quince-the-fruit-that-started-the-trojan-war

"Karp's Sweet Quince: Finally available to American gardeners, this Quince is uniquely sweet, juicy and non-astringent, especially when grown in warm climates. Obtained via fruit connoisseur and writer David Karp, it comes to us through Edgar Valdivia whose family grew it at lower elevations in Peru."

It was also known as "Apple Quince" in Peru, picture here: http://www.latimes.com/food/dailydish/lat-la-karp-1005-la0011679655-20121017-photo.html

Apparently it came from the Majes Valley of southern Peru, near Arequipa, where it is called membrillo manzano, and is fairly common in home gardens there.

ok, ordered Nurun Burun pear and Carp's Sweet quince, will let you know in two years :)

(Narun Burun will not arrive until Fall, they have to make a grafting first)

Maybe I can try to hybridize them together...

It's been so long since I've eaten a quince... How would a Ya pear compare? They are soft and crunchy, with a high moisture, low sugar content, and a very fragrant aroma.

I do not think quince has the same texture as Asian pears. It is more "spongy" (like a dense sponge) than grainy, and does not have that high water content. The texture of quince is more like a very unripe apple combined with a mouth-drying astringency. Wonderful aroma and exquisite flavor when ripe, but the texture definitely leaves much to be desired. At the worst, it's like biting into a piece of wood. Quince is traditionally a cooking fruit, and it does make wonderful dishes when cooked.

Coarse sawdust comes to mind after chewing a mouthful of quince; it just won't chew down.

Five or more years I go I read a news item that China had gotten US permission to ship "fragrant pears." What kind they are might be worth tracking down.

Fragrant pears are supposedly a hybrid between European and Chinese pears. Their fruits are found in just about any Asian grocery store you go to, and although there is at least one commercial grower in the US, I don't think any nurseries are selling grafted fragrant pear trees. I'm not sure if it would be worth attempting to grow them from seed, since they would take forever and a day to bloom and may not come true from seed.

I don't know what variety it was by the ones I had from my grocery store were edible raw. Dryish. But edible. Good flavor, tasted like a monster energy drink.

The single "fragrant pear" I tried from a local Asian market 2 years ago was unremarkable, very similar to Asian pears in general, no strong fragrance.

It's very hard to find any information about the "Nurun Burun" variety, but apparently the Genetic Resources Institute in Azerbaijan makes reference to a sample collected from Digahoba village in Khachmaz province. There are a lot of orchards in this area.

An old German periodical makes a quick mention to a list of several varieties, including Narun Barun pear, growing in Dagestan and Armenia, and says that said listed varieties are delicious and still unknown in Europe. (Garten-Zeitung, year 1882)

found this entry in The Book of Pears, by Joan Morgan:

“Narum Burum - USSR, Caucasus. Possibly cross between an Asian and Western
pear. Shape of Western pear and reminiscent of an Asian pear in taste, with
crisp juicy flesh, sweet to very sweet and intense musk flavor; coarse open
texture; tough skin. Highly ornamental in blossom, like an Asian pear.

Fruit: size med. (71-88mm high x 56-75mm wide) Shape: mainly
conical, Colour: light green becoming bright yellow with extensive diffuse
orange-red flush”

There was also some information on Passe Crassane:

"Passe Crassane [...] In a warm seasaon and at best, exceptional for late Jan.,
Feb.

Very juicy, buttery, white flesh, sweet, tasting of
pear-drops and highly perfumed, but in a poor year astringent, fails to develop
in the English climate. Passe Crassane was France’s premier late variety until
recent times, produced particularly for the luxury trade, and used to be sold
with stems dipped in sealing wax to help reduce moisture loss during storage.
In UK among the modern pears highlighted at 1885 London Pear Conference – one of
the ‘most delicious pears known’ – but it needed a warm spot."

This same book also stated that Passe Crassane was a parent of Delsanne, which is now marketed as the popular variety "Goldember".

I found another old reference that describes a quince-pear hybrid that produced seedless fruit:

“The form of the fruit is unusual and characteristic,
cylindrical, slightly longer than broad, with a short peduncle arising from a
shallow cavity, the eye situated in a deep basin, open, the calyx lobes
persistent. The skin is thick, rough, green or yellowish-green, abundantly
covered with red dots like that of a pear. The flesh is white, granular, firm,
juicy, sweet, slightly acidulous with an agreeable quince-like perfume. The
season of ripening is October and November. The fruits which I have eaten were
picked before they were fully ripe; the flesh was pleasantly flavored but firm
as in a half-ripe pear. When cooked, the fruits seemed to be intermediate in
character between a pear and a quince.

In 1915 an attempt was made to pollinate flowers of [this
quince-pear hybrid] with pollen from various pears, but no fruits were
obtained. I did not attempt to pollinate with quince pollen, though that might
offer a better chance of success.

The character of the ovules, six in each locule, arranged in
two series of three, one superposed upon the other, seems to bring [this
hybrid] nearer to Cydonia (quince) than to Pyrus (pear).”

The Journal of Heredity (1916), Pyronia, article by Dr. L.
Trabut, Botanist of the Government of Algeria

What do you mean RainTree mislabeled it? Do you mean you think the quince RainTree shipped to you is not actually is a Karp's Sweet? Do you think this is just a one-time occurrence or are other people going to have problems ordering from RainTree? You're talking about the picture you took, not the one RainTree has posted up on their website, right? If you're not in a warm climate it's possible the Karp's fruit developed a little differently so does not look the same as some of the pictures you have seen (They said Karp's really develops best in warmer climates). How did your "Karp's" taste compared to other varieties?

Hey Parker25mv,

My picture... You can see it looks very different than the rounder apple shape I believe Karp's is supposed to have:

https://flic.kr/p/CiqrmY

Mine were very large, oblong shaped, and mostly 'bumpy' (although in the background of that pic, there was a more smoother fruit of the same variety).

You were saying maybe it grows differently, but i doubt it would have that top 'dimple' on the fruit and oblong more pear shape consistently on all the fruits.

The mislabeled Karps was my largest quince variety, but most of the fruit crack near the top (i took the pic from the angle where you wouldn't see the cracks on both fruits). So somewhat disappointing they didnt give me the real variety. Might be Van Deman or Cooke's Jumbo (think the former is what they had in stock in 2010/2011... although it doesn't have the 'spicy' taste Van Deman is supposed to have).

Anyway, I think its a one time occurrence. Only time I think they shipped me wrong variety from many things I ordered from them. The bumpy one tasted alright, but not as good as Kuganskaya, Aromatnaya, Crimea.

Btw, Kuganskaya was a bit precocious and produced the most fruit earlier.

I have Kaunching too, and that hasn't fruited yet, so thats the least precocious of my 5.

Note: People from another forum i think didn't like Karp's cause they claimed it was a tip bearer and got lots of diseases: http://www.cloudforest.com/cafe/apples/edgar-quince-david-carp-quince-scab-magnet-t1213.html

Whenever a rare fruit variety arrives I am always paranoid it might not actually be the variety I ordered. How would I really know for sure?

When it finally fruits, I could be thinking that now I know how this variety tastes, but for all I know it could be some other variety whose fruit has a similar appearance. It's not like I have ever had the opportunity to actually taste these rare fruit varieties before and compare them to other varieties. The uncertainty is kind of unsettling. I just have to hope that the sellers have integrity and that an accidental switch up was not made.

Fortunately I am in Southern California which has a very warm dry climate most of the year, so fungal disease on fruit trees is not a problem here.

Thank you for that information in the link, armyofda12mnkeys, I did not realize there were 2 varieties!

"Valdivia Yellow: Discovered by Edgar Valdivia in his orchard in Simi Valley, California. David Karp says that this is a seedling of the quince cultivar that we have called 'Karps Sweet Quince' which also originated with Valdivia from germplasm brought from Peru. This fruit is easy to chew (very soft) and has good flavor similar to the white apple quince (= Karps Sweet); the only difference is that the skin is green in color."

You know, I wonder if perhaps "Valdivia Yellow" has a different shape from its parent "Karp's Sweet" ? There is a tiny possibility that might explain the shape of your fruit, if maybe there was some confusion and RainTree got the variety which is not round? Just a thought, I'm probably wrong here.

I have just been eating a big bag full of fresh Comice pears i got at the fruit market. They have an exquisite flavor that stands out from all the other pear varieties I have tasted. Compared to other pears, the flesh is firm and dense... one could say a little like a quince! I'm not going to say the flavor is quince-like; the flavor is definitely pear, but it does seem to have some subtle notes in its aroma that are more reminiscent of the wonderful aroma of quince than any common pear. I wonder if there might be some ionones in the aroma, because one of the fragrance notes i can pick up on has this euphoric ethereal-like feel (like those old violet flavored candies). Could this all just be a coincidence?

I also suspect 'White Doyenne' may also have some quince genes, the pear is very aromatic and can have pale yellowish skin when fully ripe. This is supposedly the same variety as the old Roman pear Sementinum.

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I just read that passe crassane is "consistently parthenocarpic", meaning it can produce seedless fruit without being pollinated.

More evidence that it could indeed be a pear-quince hybrid.

" M. Karl Koch, in a recent lecture on fruit-trees, says he
has heard in the East that some of our races of dessert Pears have descended
from a hybrid or hybrids obtained between the Pear and the Quince—both of
which fruits are much more variable than is generally supposed—from the latter
of which they have obtained flavor and aroma. Some kind of Pears now grown
closely resemble the Quince in shape, colour, and peculiarly long calyx-lobes,
as well as aroma and flavor ; and that such hybridity is not improbable may to
a certain extent be assumed, seeing that some races of Pear show a marked
preference for the Quince stock, while others succeed only on the free stock or
Pear. "

" Thus it is a well-known fact that some varieties of Pear
will not unite readily with the Quince or Hawthorn stocks, and this difficulty
is surmounted by the use of 'intermediate' stocks. The Quince is grafted with
the scion of a Pear which is known to unite readily and succeed well on it as a
stock, and on this is worked the variety of Pear which refuses to unite well
with the Quince. […] and we have many records of Pears being altered in size, colour, flavour, and time of ripening, owing to their having been grafted on the Quince stock. "

Cultivated Plants: Their Propagation and Improvement, p600, signed and dated by the author, F. W. Burbidge in the year 1888 (yes, this book is very old)

My passe crassane is already starting to blossom:

Some more information about the French practice of conserving Winter Pears:

https://www.frenchgardening.com/tech.html?pid=1139483932219159

For those of you who do not know, the fruit of a quince has a wonderful fragrance. It is floral, a sweet fragrance similar to apple and very reminiscent of a particular fragrance note found in pear, but also mixed with the smell of violets. I had read about quince and just regarded it as a fruit that was probably not worth growing, but the first time I actually found quince at the store I could not believe how fragrant it was! The aroma and flavor is so unlike apple or pear. It was like I wanted to keep eating the fruit even though I couldn't eat more than a small amount at a time because it was so astringent and hard.

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gonebananas_gw, to answer your comment,

I got to try "fragrant pears" in a Korean market, and although the flavor of this Asian pear is very perfumed and somewhat musky, the aroma is nothing like that of quince or Comice. I personally prefer the aroma and flavor of Comice, although I could understand why some people might like fragrant pears more.

skyjs made a post 5 years ago:

"I grow Crimea quince from One Green World. It is one of my favorite fruits. It is delicious fresh. I cut it into slices. Everyone who has eaten it has liked it. I live in NOrthern Oregon, on the border of Washington State. We get much less heat than most of the country. I have to grow it in full sun, and it ripens in October. It is so outstandingly productive that I am still eating the fruit I froze 2 years ago. When you freeze it, the texture changes from very dense to about the texture of a peach. The Russian quinces in general are good for fresh eating. Aromatnaya tastes good, but it is milder in flavor than Crimea, Kaunching or Kuganskaya, all of which are absolutely delicious, like your most extreme heirloom apple. Think Karmijn da Sonnaville, or Gold rush."

There is also 'Cole's Quince' Apple. green to yellow in color, sometimes with a red blush, and the shape of the fruit can very lumpy, said to resemble quince in flavor and aroma. This apple variety originated in Maine and was first described in 1806.

Where did you get your Narun Burun? I was looking for one, but don't see anywhere that sells them...

It's an old thread, but perhaps someone will find this information useful.

Location: Ukraine. I have tasted this pear and I love it. It has a quince aroma, it's sweet with a bit of acid. Reminds me a bit of honey. I don't know for sure the name of this variety. People advise me that it's the "Kieffer pear", but I can't find anywhere that the "Kieffer" variety has a quince aroma.

,