It looks a bit like "Honeymoon Cottage Hidden Garden Purple". But I'd have to do a lot of comparing that I can't do, because neither of them would be likely to grow here.

Thanks! That was the one whose name I was trying to remember. Take a look at that German site I linked as well -- it offers numerous comparison photos.

Jeri, is there a way I could get some material from it to grow here? I'm looking at the purples to break up the ubiquitous pink that will be planted at the cemetery, and "found" roses of the time period are welcome.

:-)

~Christopher

I bought Cardinal de Richelieu this year I can't wait to see it bloom.

I have that one here, and intend on rooting it for the cemetery. Others of this flavor I have coming -- either by purchase or by pieces sent in the mail -- are 'Hippolyte', 'Ombree Parfaite', 'Robert le Diable', and whichever version of 'The Bishop' is carried by Long Ago Roses. She's not sure, but I'm hoping it's "Double Plum". These and others that sucker will be going at the bases of trees, behind tombstones, or other spots surrounded by grass. This way, any unwanted spread will be controlled with the lawn mower.

:-)

~Christopher

I will be quite disappointed if my 'Cardinal de Richelieu' and my mystery purple roses don't bloom this spring. They are getting to be fairly large plants.

Thanks to earlier discussions here about my unknown, thornless purple, I think it's probably a Hybrid China.

Although I haven't seen any shading on the blooms of the plant I got my cuttings from, I've recently started to wonder if my rose might be the same as "Ruth's German Rose" or a very close cousin to it. Hopefully, I'll have blooms on my two youngsters this spring, so I can keep a look out for any shading or other similarities.

On the adult plant (belonging to a gardening friend), I have only seen flowers of a deep, even violet purple, but it's entirely possible that it has different looks I've managed to miss seeing. The bloom is fairly small and fragrant, and I wonder if it could be'Violet sans Aiguillons'. The descriptions fit, but it's a long shot.

Virginia

Your rose is positively beautiful Virginia!! Let me know if it suckers and your able to share please!! I have ordered Ruth's German rose from Linda along with a couple of others Christopher enabled me with when he was sharing his cemetery project on another post and I looked them up and had to have them! Well actually, RGR she is going to try to have, but I will know this spring for sure!! I really want it to because it was found in SC! That's also why I'm asking about your rose. Me and Christopher share a mutual love for the same types and color of roses! Your enabling me more with all these pictures Christopher, but I already have so much ordered now. All are not available here anyway. Thanks for sharing these beauties though. I am really looking forward to seeing pictures of your cemetery project when you get started.

I have several of the roses named here, but haven't gotten started on sorting them out; I just want them to grow for now. I've been cataloging my roses lately and hope to find time to study them next flowering season. Christopher, have you looked at any of the purple mosses? I don't know how they do in your climate, but I think highly of 'Capitaine John Ingram' and 'William Lobb'. I agree that the purple roses go very well with pink ones, and with just about all the old rose colors, in fact. Purple and white roses together are ravishing.

Alana, it roots from cuttings fairly easily. I have two plants I grew from cuttings, and I'm waiting to find out if another cutting from one of my plants has rooted. Fall isn't a great time to try that here, but I did snip a bit off that was leaning out sideways & stuck in a pot nearby; it doesn't look like a dead stick, so there's hope for it yet. I'm sure I can figure out a way to get one rooted for you.

Linda mentioned that "Ruth's German Rose" is also thornless, except for the occasional small prickle under some leaves, so I am suspicious that that's what I've got also, despite the differences in flower color.

I'd like to also try growing the "Canary Rose" Gallica from the Canary Islands (supposedly) via Texas.

Virginia

I grow some of these roses and really enjoyed seeing Karin Schade's comparison page. Most of these varieties have similar growth patterns in my garden with heights in the normal gallica range here, 4 to 6 feet and usually nearer 5 than 6 ft. Centifolia à fleurs doubles violettes that is probably L'Évêque or The Bishop (if they are the same rose) is an exception. It is taller than Hippolyte and 8 ft tall even in my less than benign climate, so I guess it would grow taller for you.

Centifolia à fleurs doubles violettes (The Bishop?)

Melissa -- Yes, I've been looking at Mosses for this color as well, and 'William Lobb' and 'Capitaine John Ingram' are on my list for the cemetery.

Mariannese -- thanks so much for the pics and suggestions. That's very helpful for me.

:-)

~Christopher

Virginia where did you order your canary rose? I checked it out loved it, and see no one that carries it. I actually have great rooting here in Fall and decent in in Spring. I had two pieces break off of Orpheline de Juliet and if one roots, maybe we can trade. It's looking great so far and has been there atleast a month and is still green. I just stuck it in the ground not far from my rose.

Mariannese Those are so beautiful! Thanks so much for sharing!

Alana, I haven't ordered "Canary Rose"; I just think it would be cool to grow. My understanding is that it's a passalong plant in Texas, and I also think it's occasionally sold at the SFASU plant sales in Nacogdoches...

Virginia

Christopher, you might could obtain it via Jill Perry, of the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden. I don't grow it here, because I cannot grow these roses in my climate.

I have 'Capitaine John Ingram' runners all over the place. 'Ombrée Parfaite' is also rampant for me. Come spring I could give you some.

I also enjoyed seeing that comparison page of purple Gallicas but my head is still spinning from trying to tell them apart.

On the subject of purple hybrid chinas/gallicas/centifolias: My 'Robert le Diable' (from a friend) and 'Hippolyte' (High Country) seem awfully similar. Has anyone else noticed this?

That's beautiful labrea! I love those purples!

I haven't made an attempt to sort out the purples, of which I have many of the varieties named in this thread, but 'Robert le Diable' is different from the others. Mine is a distinctive rose. It's pink-mauve-violet with brownish tones, and is very finely striated, like a fine-textured variegation. The plant is dark, low, and suckering, and is quite thorny. It's a tough plant. I just went and looked at the photos of RlD on HFM, and honor compels me to say that I don't see the striation there, and yet the roses could well be my variety. The rather blotchy coloring looks right.

P.S. Three pages back in the photos on HMF there are some blooms that look like mine, from Bianca K. and AmiRoses. I always think of 'Robert le Diable's color as looking bruised.

labrea -- I remember you mentioning "Canary Island" to me when I visited your garden. I didn't have space for it here, but I think it'd do great at the cemetery. Thanks for mentioning Burlington -- I'll have to see if she has any available.

jerijen -- Thanks for providing a possible source for "Honeymoon Cottage". That's another I'd like to add to the cemetery.

belmont8 -- If you happen to have an extra sucker of 'Capitaine John Ingram' I'd happily pay postage to get it to me in Spring. I'm not afraid of the suckering roses for the cemetery -- my plan is to put them in isolated pockets around tombstones or at the bases of trees, surrounded by grass. Any unwanted spreading would be eaten by the mower -- unless the caretaker or I want to dig them up for sharing.

I've been placing a series of small orders for hard-to-find and hard-to-root-from-cuttings roses to bring to the cemetery. This "first wave" is old once-bloomers, and I'm trying to avoid a sea of the ubiquitous pink. The purples would bring a welcome respite, so I appreciate all the other lovelies being mentioned in this thread.

If anyone is interested to see what I have coming so far, I did post the garden on HelpMeFind, and included anything I ordered or has been promised by way of suckers or cuttings. I gave the link to Brian, the caretaker, to give him an idea of what's coming. This doesn't include things from my own garden which I'll try to propagate for there. It seems like a lot, but there's a lot of space. In a previous thread, I posted pictures of the cemetery. There are already several prepared large beds, and more being planned.

The pics are in this thread. At mad_gallica's suggestion, I started a second thread for general OGR recommendations. The cemetery garden with its Spring-arriving inventory so far is here. And my own garden, from which I'll propagate date-appropriate roses for the cemetery, is here.

:-)

~Christopher

Virginia I was wondering on how I can get in touch with you. You don't have it where I can message you on here. I was wanting to ask you how Sou. de Victor Hugo does for you. I have Linda rooting him for me. If you get this feel free to email me at . Thanks! That way we can also discuss this spring about your mystery rose and maybe a trade :)

Christopher, this is how Honeymoon Cottage Purple appeared this spring/summer in San Juan Bautista. It's a pretty thing!

Alana, I like 'Souv. de Victor Hugo' very much; he is a rather variable Tea, and I like that. He tried to put on a fall flush, but our wet and wacky weather put a (literal) damper on much of the fall blooms, so I'm just looking forward to the spring, and hoping for some flowers before the June Bugs crash the party.

I sent you an e-mail, if you want to edit your post above so the bots don't get to your e-mail address.

I hope your neck is feeling better,

Virginia

PS I just had a look at the mystery purple cutting that I stuck in a pot, and I do think it probably has rooted... the stem is still green and has lots of tiny red leaf buds...

Kim and Virginia -- I'd love to include both your roses at the cemetery. Virginia, you said your cutting rooted -- is this your only piece? If so, are you able to procure some more in Spring and send them my way? And Kim -- how can I get yours over my way? Is it near you?

In other news, my daily Starbucks hauls have begun sparking inquiries from the church members. Brian, the caretaker, has been telling me that they're looking forward to seeing the garden expand. Brian has also told me about a new strip he plans to make, and asked about having a row of short roses there. So I'm thinking that the Polyantha sports derived from 'Tausendschon' would make a nice uniform mix for bedding -- same heights and habits, but with assorted colors, and date-appropriate. That's my next list I'm making.

:-)

~Christopher

I don't grow Honeymoon Cottage Purple, Christopher. Those photos were taken several hours away on the Heritage Roses outing this spring/summer. I have limited space for anything, particularly once-flowering and definitely not for anything I don't intend to use for either breeding or root stock. Hopefully, Jeri's suggestion for the source will work out. Sorry about that.

Christopher, Val de Marne (L'Haÿ), Loubert & even Stauden consider, La Négresse, a gallica.....

From what I've seen of it on the internet, 'La Negresse' is not a Damask. Or, at least, not the rose currently grown under that name, which looks very much "a part of the family" of Hybrid China / Gallica / Centifolia types also mentioned in this thread.

:-)

~Christopher

Hi, Christopher. We're on the same color quest, so I'm criss-crossing over to your purple thread. There's a Gallica/China hybrid floating around called "Brooks Purple." It was discovered in Oregon and Paul Barden has a wonderful photo on his website. He also mentions that "BP" may the rose referred to as "Red Runaround." HMF suggests that "BP" may be 'Frederic II de Prusse' or "Mary Lawrence's Shell Rose." On my purple thread, Jeri just mentioned that what is in commerce as 'Hippolyte' (which I am currently seeking) may be "Red Runaround." If I purchase a 'Hippolyte' from Rogue Valley Roses, will I receive a "Brooks Purple" or a "Red Runaround"? An interesting tangle! Whatever the identities of all the above, I'd like to put in votes for "Red Runaround," "Brooks Purple," and 'Hippolyte'. Also, I am loving Paul Barden's 'Rook' to date! If it blooms again this year after the collie puppy chewfest, I'll post a photo. I have another unnamed purple Barden Gallica which has yet to bloom, but I think it's going to knock my socks off when it does. And wherever the heck one gets "Honeymoon Cottage Hidden Garden Purple," it's a must have! Wow!! If anyone finds a source, please let me know. I've never seen anything so breathtaking...except maybe 'Tuscany Superb'. I might just die if I don't plant a "HCHGP" in my garden! Historical and purple: it just doesn't get any better. How's your 'Indigo' doing, by the way? :-) Carol

And gorgeous as it is, 'La Negresse' doesn't look like a Damask to my eye either. It looks like a hybrid Gallica/China. I'll eat my "Grandmother's Hat" if 'LN' is a Damask! Carol (again)

'Hippolyte' that RVR offers came from me, via Pickering, and it is most definitely not the same thing as any of the other mystery roses like Brooks Purple, etc. I believe the Pickering 'Hippolyte' is the real deal.

Hippolyte from François Joyaux's collection, L'Haÿ - Note color is more pinkish.

Another Hippolyte purplish also from L'Haÿ

That's good to know about RVR's 'Hippolyte'. Thank you, Paul! True Blue, the photos you posted look like a good match for the photo on Paul's site/RVR. So, Christopher, if you don't have a 'Hippolyte' in your collection of purples and you'd like one, it looks like RVR is a reliable source.

I already have a 'Hippolyte' ordered from Burlington Roses for the cemetery. Whichever version it is will work there. Carol, your 'Indigo' is finally starting to do something. I had it in one spot, then moved it when I learned of its rampant suckering. Doing so must have set it back a year, but last year it finally started pushing new growth instead of just maintaining what it had. Now I think of it as a repeat-blooming Gallica.

:-)

~Christopher

Hippolyte can be variable in color depending on the light and the age of the flower. The pink and purple roses in this photo are all Hippolyte in a shady place. I meant to photograph the Campanula latifolia, not the roses so they don't show very well.

Portland, the photos are not the same.

The first is from the François Joyaux collection, which is pinker. The 2nd one is closer in color to tropsero's photo.

To my eye, those differences could be on account of bloom age and/or photography issues. Many of the old purples acquire that color as the red pigments break down, and how purple they are is usually due to how fast this occurs, the age of the bloom, and how long the blooms last. In full-day hot sun, the blooms may finish faster than the pigments can break down and "blue". And I know that my iPhone camera has difficulty picking up purple tones in many roses, but that better cameras don't have this issue.

I'm not discounting the likelihood that there are different roses going around under the name 'Hippolyte' -- just that we can't always trust that what we see in a picture will be how a rose looks in our gardens, be it from camera deficiencies to different growing conditions.

:-)

~Christopher

Christopher, I didn't post the link to the pages photos.

They make a distinction between their Hippolyte and that of Joyaux's.

In case the link doesn't work, here is a screen capture from Val de Marne's site:

Virtually all "purple" roses can vary greatly depending upon all the usual issues...soil/water pH, nutrients, heat, intensity of light, moisture, etc. The only "purple" rose I've yet grown which didn't have been Cardinal Hume and Purple Buttons. All the others have expressed anything from almost white to almost the right color expected from them. Those pigments demand the right range of conditions to express themselvs appropriately. It hasn't mattered whether the rose was an OGR or a modern "purple". Some have behaved better when provided protection from the light and heat intensities. Some have required acidifying the soil, a few times to the extreme. Some have only provided the desired colors in very early springs or late falls during unusually cooler and wetter conditions.

Hi, Christopher. I'm popping back over to your thread to bug you again. Could you tell me your 'Ombree Parfaite' source? Was it Burlington? I'm trying to locate this rose. Also, I might contact Jill Perry about "Honeymoon Cottage," too. That rose should NOT fall off the planet and disappear...it should grow in my garden. :-) If we lived closer, we could join efforts. Wonderful work you're doing with the cemetery! Carol

Christopher have you thought of the La belle sultane, for your project?

Hey Carol Ombree parfaite is available at longago roses. I ordered one this year! Love them purples!

I have 'Ombree Parfaite' coming from Long Ago Roses. 'La Belle Sultane' I'm hoping to get via suckers from FrancesInNJ, a member on here who lives rather close by. Carol, if you want, I can email you my "inventory lists" which include who sent (or will send) what.

:-)

~Christopher

Thank you , Alana! I'll pop over to that site.

Ooo, Christopher. That would be more than generous! Thank you!!

Carol

Just FYI, Christopher, I heard back from Jill Perry on "Honeymoon Cottage Hidden Garden Purple." She's not propagating yet. Carol