You may wish to explore some warm-climate oldies, like Teas, Chinas, Polyanthas, and Hybrid Musks -- in that order. You live in a specific and extreme climate as far as many widespread modern roses go, and frankly, most weren't bred with your area in mind. Success with them will be hit or miss by variety -- some HTs can do it, many can't. The blog below is written by a forum member in Florida, but she had some family health issues (I think?) in the last year or two, so start back at the beginning. This can give you an idea of what works for her.

http://sherryocala.blogspot.com/

You may wish to pop over to the Antiques forum to find out more about roses of the types I mentioned. There are also two Florida nurseries -- further north, though -- with inventories that should help guide you in your selection. See their websites below.

http://rosepetalsnursery.com/

http://www.angelgardens.com/

I'm sure you'll find many beauties which do well where you are, even if they aren't what you thought of initially. It's far less frustrating to grow roses that like your conditions than to try and force it with others that would prefer living elsewhere. Good luck.

:-)

~Christopher

Don't feel bad--some roses have had to be sprayed from the very beginning--they only survived because they were covered with coal dust! The pollution of the industrial revolution acted as a fungicide!

What about noisettes? Help Me Find Rose site could help you with these types and Christopher's recommendations which should be excellent. In the long run you will gravitate to the healthier roses for your climate and be so happy with your roses. Hang in there, it will be OK if some have to go to rose heaven. Dr. Malcolm Manners also is an expert in Florida who advises here and you could search for what he likes.

What are you spraying and how often?

Whoops! Sheila, I forgot to mention Noisettes! Thanks for throwing them in.

:-)

~Christopher

I started growing roses back in the early 70's in Hollywood (FL) and moved to Winter Haven in 1980. Spent 20 years there, growing roses. Learned a lot of tricks about growing roses in Central FL. One thing I learned is there are several roses that will get fungal diseases no mater what you spray them with. I had to toss them and keep on trying to keep the rest of the garden clean. You are close enough to Lakeland to go to Florida Southern Collage and check out their garden. It will amaze you. Your biggest fight will be with Chili Thrips. They can devastate a garden and kill a lot of bush. Especially young bush's. I'll try to post more about this subject this evening.

I grew roses in FL for 15 years and yes it is a challenge. Any modern roses will have to be on fortuniana as you mentioned, due to the nematodes. For me the biggest thing was amend, amend, amend. FL sand holds nothing. Some lovelies that I had success with were Julia Child, Belinda's Dream, Easy Does It, Don Juan, and lots of Austins. I sprayed with Bayer, often! But it is a good idea to check out the old roses, Cramoisi Superieur was a rose machine, gorgeous and smelled wonderful, completely healthy, the bourbons, Maggie and Souvenir De La Malmaison (often referred to as SDLM) is wonderful and is a good cut flower. The teas (not hybrid tea) and the chinas do very well. Spice and Vincent Godsiff were exceptional.

One of the most beneficial things you can do is to start up a compost pile in the corner of your yard somewhere out of the way. That way you can amend your soil if it is too sandy. I also use compost on my potted roses and other plants. Healthy plants begin with healthy soil and they can fight off disease etc easier when they are healthier. That said I do get some black spot in my garden because I don't spray at all lol. I am in NE FL and parts of my property is sandy, parts are pure clay, and the heavily wooded areas have naturally nice rich black dirt from decomposing leaves and pine needles. I have chickens and bunnies to help out my compost bins plus I get coffee grounds from Starbucks and add grass clippings etc. I don't usually throw too many leftover fruit/veggies in the compost bins because I just give them to the chickens lol.

I am growing a bunch of Austins, a few other HTs, and really working on getting Teas, Noisettes and Chinas, etc into my garden. I get some frost here in zone 9a so I started growing more roses because I don't have to stick them in the greenhouse in the winter like my tropicals.

~SJN

Florida Southern College was great to mention, Ken. Dr. Manners works there, Rachel, and has helped them with their gardens. You should go look and put those names in the forum google box to get all the postings related.

SJN, great suggestion. The beauty of compost is that it breaks down pretty quickly in FL. I had a heap and it produced amazing 'black gold' which was part of my amending. Another great thing is alfalfa. I made alfalfa tea and within 10 days of putting it on the roses they seemed to smile, if not laugh. They responded with growth, health and blooms, lots of blooms.

Nancy

FIrst - WELCOME to the world of obsessed rose growers! I understand why you are frustrated - you are doing all of that work by yourself. Very glad you found this website & forum.

Have you looked into joining a local rose society? They would have all kinds of advice and knowledge to share with you. I agree with those above who said that modern roses might not be the best ones to try and grow in your climate. Old roses, such as chinas, evolved in hot humid climates. If you go to the Antique Rose Forum on here, there are several rose growers who live in Florida who could probably help you. Also, there are people in India who are busily hybridizing new roses which LIKE a warm/hot and humid climate! Here is a link where there is an article about them on HMF

http://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=7.5946&tab=1

BTW - have you gone to the web site Help Me FInd/roses? Just google it - if you know the name of a rose, you can search for it, and it will tell you all about it, including what sort of climate it likes.

The basic messages I am trying to convey are:

1) Get help locally - either a local rose society, or on here or the Antique Rose Forum from people who garden near you.

2) The best way to grow roses well is to FIND OUT which roses like your climate/conditions, period. The nurseries will not tell you that - they pretend that all roses like it everywhere. That is not true. I cannot grow a host of types of roses, and even modern roses like hybrid teas do not like my climate. However, many warm climate loving roses such as chinas, teas (old tea roses - not hybrid teas), hybrid musks, hybrid giganticas, noisettes, and polyanthas love my climate and conditions. There are roses which like yours too - you just have to find out which ones they are. Most of us get roses from specific mail order nurseries, not the local retail ones. You can find out which ones are best for ordering roses from by asking on here.

Back to growing good roses in Central FL. I tried growing roses own root, on Multiflora root stock, on Dr. Huey root stock and on Fortuniana root stock. The only one that refused to perform was Multiflora root stock. There is a trick to growing roses own root and on Dr. Huey root stock. It requires large nursery pots (15 & 25 gal.) and GOOD, light weight potting soil.

Most own root roses will do great in 15 gal. pots. Dig a hole where you want your rose, large enough to sink the pot (empty) up to the top lip. Take the pot back out and line the bottom of the hole with Pine Bark. Nematodes HATE the acid from the pine bark and will move away from that area. Next, put your pot into the hole and put a good layer of pine bark in the pot. Now fill the pot 1/2 full of good potting soil and then flood the pot with water. Let the water drain and fill the pot to about 3/4 full with more potting soil. More water and drain. Fill to about 4" from the top with more potting soil and plant your own root rose. Cover everything with either pine bark or pine needles (I prefer pine needles) and water good. Don't fertilize for at least 4 weeks and then only very lightly until you have a well established rose bush.

For Dr. Huey root stock you do everything the same in a 25 gal. pot until you get to the 3/4 full. This is when you plant your rose (either bare root or from a pot) and finish out filling and mulching. Dr. Huey performs best in the fall, winter and spring in central FL. During the summer I stopped feeding and just watered. This way they went semi dormant.

Fortuniana root stock performs very well in well amended soil (at least 14" deep). Taking care of your young bush's is the trick to the hole deal. Some foliage will get some form of disease during the year. Don't stress over the little things. Some roses just don't do well in FL. It's just a trial and error situation. All of the roses sold by Nelson's Roses will do well. There are a bunch of roses that you can't find on Fortuniana root stock. That is how I learned to do roses in pots.

Hi Ken,

Here's a question for you. Whats the difference between growing a rose in a 25 gallon pot that's been put into the ground vs a 25 gallon pot sitting on your patio? Is it just for the look of the roses being in the garden and not on the patio, or do you find digging the pots into the ground to have other benefits? Also can you recommend a good light potting mix. Is miracle grow a good one? And what about large own root roses like Golden Celebration (I have one coming in today) would this be a good plan for that kind of rose?

As far as pots being sunk in the ground to being put on the patio. In the ground conserves water. Any pot with any plant in it, exposed to the sun and all the elements, will need more water and more personal attention. Now for visual effect, a low growing floribunda or shrub in a large pot on the patio can't be beat. Now soil, to me, is one of the most important parts of growing great roses. For growing roses in pots I used a 50/50 mix of Sta Green Potting Soil and Faford soiless Potting Soil. Sta Green should be able to be found at Low's. Faford, you will have to go on line and hunt for a nursery that sells it. But the mixture of these two can't be beat

Whoops. Any own root rose that will get huge needs to be in a 25 gal. pot.

and the bottoms of the pots should be left intact? Not cut out? I heard someone say that nematodes only live in the first 6 inches of soil so if you put the pot with the bottom cut out into the soil, the roots have room to grow but the nematodes wont reach them. I wonder! Any opinion about that?

Also I have a Norwegian Pine in my yard (on the other side of the house, not near my rose bed) do you think the needles would work from that pine b/c I have an unending supply LOL

SoFL Rose----I always left the bottoms in the pots and added about 10 (or so) 1" holes in the bottom of the pot. This always took care of any large roots that wanted to go beyond the pot confines. The pine needles from your Norwegian Pine will work just fine.

Ken, thanks for the great tips!

Awesome. I just got an own root Golden Celebration and strawberry hill that I'd like to try this with. Thanks for the great advice!!

Okay so I greatly appreciate all the kind words n advice!! I have many many roses from ogr's to David austins many are on own roots , multiflora, dr Huey and especially many on fortuniana bc its most nematode resistant and I've seen Rotarians from Tampa Rose society with roses planted for 10+ years on Fortuna Hannah got her 10-12 feet tall huge and gorgeous I have friends at the Tampa Road society that say they can live on Fortuna Hannah for 40+ years . Anyways my question to you all is that I had an outbreak of downy mildew which I've never dealt with before and I went through every rose and picked off every bad leaf and cut many back , repotted many, some are in the ground and many are in pots (my fiancé has a very good job he owns a company so he makes good money and I don't have to work and he's bought me expensive sprays) I have Aliette I have heritage honor guard I have spray and drench for die back and for the thrips I have orthene for chili thrips it gets rid of all of them but you have to spray once and then spray again in 3 to 5 days to get the eggs that hatched . I also have avid it's a miticide I have a lada for scale the Aliette is really good for the downy mildew I have pageant and I have double nickel LC all were very expensive I also have pentathlon LF it's a fungicide The problem is it makes me sick to my stomach to use all these cancer-causing chemicals on my roses literally have to spray every five days to seven days and if I don't they all get riddled with disease it's sickening . Anyways I got off the subject a little bit I'm very good about amending the soil I'm Diggin it all out I I make a trench for compost that I put in ( also have a huge compost pile I made a few weeks ago!) and then I also dig out a lot of the soil and amend it with cow manure and Pete Moss because my soil is very alkaline . The problem is I've mail order many roses from heirloom roses from David Austin from antique Rose Emporium and I never kept any of my new roses in quarantine so when they leafed out I ended up with downy mildew and it spread so rapidly to my other roses that I had to take all 200 roses and cut them all back take all the leaves off and spray with Aliette which does a very good job by the way but we had a rain spell the other day and it was very humid and the weather was a little cool and the downy mildew's back again and it's on a lot of my favorite roses like my climbing Clotilde soupert my climbing MalMaison my red Edens so many roses that I can't replace and the more I check my roses out the more it seems like almost everyone of them have has a few leaves with downy on them !! I've tried to pick up every disease Leaf that falls in my yard I but I know there are some in the yard still and I think it was 30 days or three months I don't remember which couple weeks I don't know that the downy spores are still active on the Rose leaves on the ground . My question is does anybody have any advice for me should I start over??!! my fear is if I throw all these bushes out dig them all up and start over the new ones will be reinfected by leaves that that are in the ground that I can't see or find!! I'm literally sitting outside right now at 8:47 PM in tears because I'm tired of my rosebushes getting downy mildew it's a devastating disease I'm tired of picking off leaves and I am 32 years old and I'm a recovering addict and I've been clean for 3 1/2 years now and I put down the drugs and picked up roses so roses are like my new addiction and I live I live for my roses I have four boys my life is hectic and spending the day out in the garden is my life I can't imagine getting rid of any of these roses let alone starting over I don't always have time to spray once a week which is what was recommended by a rosarian. I'm lost for words I don't know what to do and it's so depressing !! they say for Those that loves roses that they were bit by the rose bug well my fiancé says I wasn't bitten I was attacked every day I'm outside with my roses everyday!! they mean everything to me !! and I don't know what to do I need help !! I need help!! from somebody ! Anybody!! I need advice !! what would you guys do if you were in my position ??????!!!!

I would not cut back canes or remove every abnormal leaf because that might weaken the plants I would fear. This might be a situation where you could ask a kind rosarian from the rose society to come over and make an on site assessment. They might be able to help sort out the hopeless from the temporarily afflicted. A local rosarian could share tips with you. Your health is most important.

Thankyou I appreciate it I did just move from Tampa to brooksville however and I'm not in contact anymore with the people I met from Tampa rose society so I'm guessing I should join here. I know cutting back and picking the leaves off the bush does weaken it however I've had good results with clean fresh new growth returning after doing so but on some of them it wasn't too much longer that they were reinfected after the rain recently it's so depressing I feel lost and helpless

I do know 100% for sure that it is downy on them ( some anyways) bc I had plant tissue sent off to the lab here by the brooksville horticultural society or whichever u call it. I'm so upset I can't even think right!!

I might join the local rose group and a health support group too to help you through this difficult time. Moving can be very destabilizing, and you sound like you have a lot of positives you could focus on too while your rose dreams are sorting themselves out. Try to get some sleep.

Rachel, my husband googled 52 minutes from your old location to this new location. It's possible someone could make that drive to help you.

Also do not go on the organic rose forum, whatever you do, Rachel.

Lol I understand!! Thankyou Sheila for the tip I honestly would LOVE to go organic!! I know the chemicals are very harsh and it sickens me!! I HATE using them!! But from my experience so far in rose growing here in fla is if I don't spray my roses get loaded with disease n fungus within a few days!!

SoFlrose I have strawberry hill! It's a great rose! Unfortunately it is one that's covered in downy that I can't part with no matter how bad it gets. I also have MANY other austins I'm a HUGE fan of austins roses!!! they're so gorgeous!! Many do well but in the summer heat some of them only have blooms for a day or so before they shatter or crinkle up to me that's not a reason to part with a rose, I adore David Austin roses!!!

Thankyou for the helpful links Christopher!! (Aqua-eyes) I actually have many of the OGR's, I have a wide variety of roses and more coming via mail order!! The problem is with downy mildew now that it's in my garden it doesn't discriminate against any type of rose and some of my OGR's have it also it's a devastating disease I feel defeated already!!

Thanks ken and I'm learning that also !! One of the roses that seems to be covered no matter how often I spray is SDLM ( MalMaison, the bush version) it got blacks lot and never recovered no matter what I did. And I adored that rose!! I also have the climbing sport and that one is also struggling with downy n black spot!! I won't part from it though I just can't!!

BUFORD- I have some really good sprays the problem is I don't have the time to spray every week. Somedays I spray once a week, other times it's only once every 3 weeks or even a month n a half will go by!! That month or 2 is when the downy showed up unfortunately!! The funny thing is I didn't have a trace of downy on my roses in Tampa!! However, I do believe it came from antique rose emporium. I've purchased many many roses from there and some where in poor condition upon arrival including canker and dieback in a couple of the canes of some roses I received! I won't buy from them anymore unless they have a rose I can't find ANYWHERE else!! I've spent a couple thousand dollars on their roses over the past 2 years and too many of them arrived in poorer condition. As far as the sprays I use, I have alliette WDG, systemic turf n ornamental fungicide, thiomyl, PentathlonLF, double nickel LC, heritage, Dithane45, honor guard, pageant & I also have the cheaper sprays u can get from lowes & Home Depot like copper, immunization, malathion, eat... instead of keeping a spray schedule I only spray when I can get around to it the problem is when I first started spraying my roses looked so good that I stopped spraying bc Id rather not use any chemicals and after a couple months everything ended up covered in black spot and downy. People probably think I'm crazy with all the chemicals but I'm learning I can't have roses unless I have some type of spray schedule. I honestly would rather go organic!! I'm organic when it comes to growing veggies n herbs. It makes me sick that I have to use any chemicals!! I'm an animal lover!! I want to keep bees here in brooksville but I can't if I spray with these harsh chemicals!! I got some animals after moving here to brooksville I'm going to start a farm. So far I have dogs a pig and like 20 chickens. I'm getting pigmy gots and a horse n a pony within the next year or two. I'd rather learn organic ways for my roses but after trying different things I've read about nothing works like the harsh chemicals. It sickens me!!

TEKA, I have 2 cramousi superiors!! I love them!! They also got downy (bc it was in my garden) I recently cut them back to start over, so far they look healthy, fingers crossed!!

SULTRY & TEKA, I do have a compost pile after moving out here to the country we made a decent sized pile just a week or 2 ago and I ALWAYS use alf-Alfa in my roses!! I use some ground up mixed into the potting mix I make for my potted roses and feed the planted bushes a cup of alf-Alfa once a month sometimes even sooner depending on how fast it broke down. I also use bonemeal, liquid seaweed ( like gold!!!!) and fish emulsion, I also feed with liquid compost from my tumbling composter or if I find it at the ranch hand store. I always use organic feed I found out the hard way that miracle grow is too salty n burns my roses so I threw that out a long time ago!! When planting I use pine fines and pine needles and even pine shavings!! Anything I can find that will break down n help build fertility into our crappy sand!! I thought moving to brooksville I would have good dirt well it's nothing but grey sand and not ONE WORM!!!! It sickens me!! I also use vernix impost, I LOVE VERMICOMPOST!! I want to start my own worm bins soon!!

SOFLrose, it's funny bc a lot of the roses u mentioned that do well here, I have!! I LOVE BELINDAS DREAM I HAVE 2 bushes n 2 trees both on fortuniana I also have easy does it dick Clark n many of the ones u listed!! The weird thing is I have downy in my garden right now and some of the ones u mentioned to be disease resistant Did catch the downy from the other infected roses

So here's another question I had to dig up roses to move plus I bought many more to plant!! And had to leave the ones I purchased in Tampa in the pots when I found out we where moving so many of my roses ( most of them!!) are in 5 gallon pots!! Could this be the main reason they're so succeptible to disease n fungus bc they're immune systems compromised being in such small pots for so long??? I just got settled in finally and I'm able to work outside daily now to plant them all!! ( I'm a stay at home mom) I have only 24 planted so far n 180 left to go!! But I enjoy every minute of the work ( accept for being sweaty n covered in sand!!) here's a pic!! Can't fit them all in the pic either this is only 2/3rds of the stinkin pots!! Lol

Rachel, I bet getting them in the ground will make them and you feel so much better! Your property looks wonderful and has so much potential. I'm getting 25 roses from ARE next week and they are going right into the ground. I'm starting digging holes this weekend.

Yeah I'm hoping to get them all in the ground ASAP I've been working on them daily now that I have time n were settled in the new house, I love the place we moved into it is pretty up here I'm sick of city living. We have 3 acres but very pretty

I haven't had time to read through the entire thread, but coming from one Florida rose grower to another, please stop throwing away roses! Your current location is ideal for growing roses in Florida.

Rachel, I can just envision all of those lovelies growing up together, and like families some may not get along, but others will cheerfully blend in. I agree with Kublakan, give them some time. I've seen roses that have looked dreadful. After some loving kindness and decent soil they came around and were stars. It sure sounds like you are doing everything right. Just keep at it. I can just see the amazing garden that it will be. There is also an old saying that says if you haven't moved a plant 3 times it isn't in the right spot yet. I planted 3' roses in front of 5' roses. Then the 3 footer grew to 7' (which happened often in my Fl garden) and had to move the one behind it since it was in the shade.

I dont understand why you gret so much downy mildew. Ive never gotten this on any rose. Inwonder what could be causing this outbreak in your garden. Blackspot i would understand, but mildew. Thats a first for me. Take some pics of your mildew and post it uf you can. Id like to see what it looks like.

Rachel, I wish I would have seen your post earlier. I usually do not frequent this part of the website. Let me see if I can help you. I live in the next county above you, Citrus County. I have roughly 1000 roses in the ground, representing some 600 varieties and species. I will offer you some of what we have learned about growing roses in Central Florida.

With some 200 plants to go in the ground you are going to need a large quantity of organic material. I do not amend the sand, I put it to other uses and replace it with purchased material. Bagged material will get very expensive for the number of plants you have. I would suggest going bulk. I would give C&C Peat a call , they are in Okahumpka, FL. They can custom blend a load for you using Class AA compost, bark, clay, peat, etc. One 40 yard load will seem like a lot, but you need large holes for these plants to spread their roots. I never purchase in bulk from anyone that cannot show me lab results for the material. I learned this lesson early on and it has kept our plants safe.

I have been using "Phosphonate" to control and prevent fungal problems. The one I use is called Magellan, manufactured by Riverdale. I purchase it in 2.5 gallon containers from Southern AG. I mix 1/2 cup per 8 gallons of water and spay it on the plant and surface of the soil. It will control not only on contact, but also be absorbed by the plant and act as a systemic. I spray when bees are not present. I have found it very effective on downy mildew, it also minimizes blackspot and other diseases.

The DoubleNickel is an OMRI listed product, again one of the safer things to use when following label precautions. I am a big believer in nutrition and beneficial biologicals. I do not use any of the more lethal products, I found that once I quit using them that the plants built up many of their own defenses. You may want to look at Cease and Milstop from BioWorks, both a safe alternative and effective. They can be applied together.

We have found that being more tolerant of roses and giving them time to acclimate and respond gives rewarding results. I wish you favorable outcomes with all of your plants and nothing but enjoyment with them in the future.

Okay, before I continue, Roseguy you MUST post some pics of your rose garden here. 1000 ROSES!?!?!?!?! Wow, and all in Florida. Please share.

Rachel, based on what I know about the soil in Central Florida and what I know about the weather pattern up there, I would suggest you plan out what you want in detail and begin section by section. Never get rid of a rose. Let that thing die on its own before you toss it. I've had roses with dieback coming up and down the stem and seen it make it with some TLC, so never give up. Shoot, I have a Crescendo that I got bareroot from Breck's with massive crown gall that I know will eventually succumb but I can't get myself to give up completely! Here's what I'd do (for what's it's worth, lol):

1.) Plan out your yard. Use MS Publisher or get a cheap poster board and plot out where you want all your roses to go. Make sure to take into account the rose's habit as well as the color scheme that you're going for. With all that space you have, you can afford to space out your roses using the three foot rule. Also, make sure to place your roses in the sunniest spots of your land, no use putting them next to root greedy trees when they will already have a hard time establishing a good root system.

2.) Create beds for your roses. I have installed my beds using Castle Rock pavers. I purchase them a little every weekend and now I have great big beds that look good. Once the pavers are in place dig out the existing soil down one to two feet. The task is arduous, but if done in sections it will seem doable. Call C&C Peat or The Bushel Stop and have them deliver several yards of their potting soil to fill in your beds.

3.) Plant your roses one section at a time. Remember to cut them back a bit and to place the weaker/smaller bushes to the outer edges of your beds to give them plenty of room and sun to grow.

4.) Apply mulch and possibly ground cover to your beds.

5.) Get into the habit of mixing in fertilizer onto your roses. I like to create a tea using alfalfa pellets, fish emulsion, and seaweed extract. Occasionally, apply a water soluble fertilizer like miracle grow in cooler weather. Remember, during the June to August your job is to maintain your rose's existing leaves and not to grow it further, so fertilize during the cooler months.

6.) Develop a spray program that works for you. You have purchased quite an arsenal, but there's no point using something that is not needed. For Florida gardeners, the go-to chemicals are Banner Maxx/Honor Guard, Mancozeb, and Conserve SC. Cleary, Subdue Maxx, and Alliette are other great chemicals that can be applied between applications of the aforementioned spray program so your pests don't develop an immunity to any of the medicines. Spray every seven to fourteen days as needed. Spraying too frequently may actually hurt your plants.

7.) Come here for help. Years ago I found this site (then under a different incarnation that has undergone two major changes over the years) and I found the answers to questions I didn't even know to ask. Know that you are among friends that share you passion for roses.

8.) Understand that the past five months have been atypical. When the nursery that produces the roses I buy tell me that they have experienced the same problems that I have had due to difficult weather conditions, I relax at the thought that little ole me, with my limited resources, am not alone in the problems. With any luck, the recent weather pattern will usher new healthy growth and turn the tide that has brought so much hardship to our rose collections.

Good luck!

-Adrian.