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julezah

Contractor ordered wrong style of windows and door--help?!

julezah
8 years ago

We're near the end of a modest addition/remodel, only to completely stall because the contractor ordered the wrong style of windows and doors. Every window and door in our house has muntions/mullions, and he ordered plain windows. The contract is little to no help, because it specifies only the make and model of the windows and doors, so both of our interpretations fall within that. (Although the manufacturer website takes you to a picture of a door with muntions/mullions when you google it.) The contractor has been forgetful and a terrible communicator from the beginning (knocked down a wall that should've remained a half height wall for example, which he knew from plans and emails and face to face discussions), but it has been smooth enough until this issue. He is being completely evasive, won't give us copies of invoices for the windows and doors, doesn't suggest any solutions (we offered to eat half the loss if he could get a 50% credit on return), and is acting like its our fault because we didn't specify muntions/mullions in the contract. He never contacted us for details (color, door swing, muntions/millions) before placing the order, didn't tell us what he ordered after placing the order, and didn't tell us when they'd been ordered. I stopped him immediately when he opened the box for the doors and told him it didn't match the house at all and were unacceptable. Turns out the lumber yard or manufacturer or whoever won't take anything back, so the entirety of the wrong order is at issue. I'm pregnant and due mid-February, and completely stressed and at a loss of how to deal with this huge issue, and what to do going forward. Does anyone have any experience with this? The windows and doors he ordered are unacceptable, they would look ridiculous in our space. Who bears the loss here? Thoughts of what to do or how to approach this? Any responses appreciated.

Comments (35)

  • User
    8 years ago

    How about custom insert grilles made to match the other windows in your house?


    Custom grills

  • Ichabod Crane
    8 years ago

    Get a lawyer. Now.

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  • julezah
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Windows and doors are expensive, and I don't want to resort to a cheap (though I'm sure not actually inexpensive!) fix for an issue that I didn't cause, but I guess that I may end up being partially responsible for. We've reached out to a couple of lawyers and will meet with them this week, but I was curious if anyone had more practical advice or experience on the issue.

  • Vertise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You have written your issue in one long paragraph.... please, try to make it easy for people to read and respond to your problem in the future. (I could not get through it).

    If he has ordered the wrong windows, then he has to correct that.

  • millworkman
    8 years ago

    Window sash can be changed to sash with the muntins. Install them and have him order replacement sash, no reason to stop the progress. And I agree completely with snookums as I almost stopped reading due to the run on.

  • geoffrey_b
    8 years ago

    Did you already pay for the windows / doors? I would first send him an email stating the windows/doors are unacceptable, and you need to be consulted about the replacements. If he doesn't answer within a day, I'd send a text, asking him to respond to you immediately.

    If you get no response, see a lawyer immediately.

    The guy is a non-caring lout.

  • millworkman
    8 years ago

    I am not ready to call anyone a non-caring lout. No offense but there are always three sides to every story and more info is needed. I am suggesting a way to keep to keep your project moving.

  • geoffrey_b
    8 years ago

    @millworkman: He sure is a non-thinking lout. Doors and windows are expensive. Any contractor who doesn't consult the client is a hack.

  • julezah
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thanks to everyone for the advice!

    VERY fair comment about needing to break the issue into paragraphs for better readability. Thanks for wading through it! I wrote the post on my phone while still pretty newly upset about the issue--although it's been ongoing since mid-December, we only learned yesterday that the manufacturer (Andersen) won't take back any of the opened boxes, which is most of the windows and doors (there are four windows and one set of french doors and sidelights).

    The legal side of this appears to fall in our favor, but because litigation is so expensive and time-consuming and such a hassle, we'd prefer to find a middle ground. It's frustrating to be the only ones seeking a solution, though, which makes this website such a resource. (I've sent emails/texts about the windows and doors being unacceptable, and after a string of hot-headed responses about it not being his problem and being unwilling to compromise, the contractor just sent me the number of his contact at the lumberyard, who is understandably hesitant to talk to me, which creates a long and confusing game of telephone.) The contractor seems to be stone-walling, as he wants to use the windows and doors that were opened and get the project wrapped.

    Good suggestion about possibly changing out the sashs. I guess I'll call the lumber yard and Andersen to see if that can happen.

  • Vertise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    "the contractor ordered the wrong style of windows and doors. Every window and door in our house has muntions/mullions, and he ordered plain windows. The contract is little to no help, because it specifies only the make and model of the windows and doors, so both of our interpretations fall within that. ..... acting like its our fault because we didn't specify muntions/mullions in the contract. He never contacted us for details "

    There is no need for mincing interpretations of the contract. The existing doors and windows on your house told him what he needed to know. That he didn't pay attention to anything or discuss details of the job is clearly his fault and his problem to resolve.

    Is there enough money to hold back? Did you pay by credit card (file a claim)? If he refuses to cooperate, you might at least be able to collect a portion of your losses through small claims court. You wouldn't need a lawyer for that, just pictures for the judge.


  • geoffrey_b
    8 years ago

    julezah:" but because litigation is so expensive and time-consuming and such a hassle," If you haven't paid him, and he won't cooperate - get another contractor.

    " the contractor just sent me the number of his contact at the lumberyard, who is understandably hesitant to talk to me"

    Forget the phone - demand a face to face meeting with with the contractor / lumber yard person / you and your husband. Get the doors and windows you want.

    "changing out the sashs. I guess I'll call the lumber yard and Andersen to see if that can happen." Don't do it. Don't get in the middle. The cost of the sash is going to be almost as much as the window frame.

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    As the architect for a project I made a mistake in a window specification and had to pay $6,000 for the new windows and sliding doors even though the contractor should have known the mullions didn't match the existing house windows.

    In your case if there was no specification or drawing in the contract you can't hold the contractor responsible for what he ordered. If you are lucky he won't mark-up the new sash and will install them for free.

  • jellytoast
    8 years ago

    If there is no specification or drawing in the contract, how can the contractor hold the customer responsible for what HE ordered? Appears to me that the homeowner is being reasonable by agreeing to absorb some responsibility for the mistake, while the contractor takes no responsibility whatsoever. If the contract isn't specific, why is the customer the one left holding the bag?

  • PRO
    Joseph Corlett, LLC
    8 years ago

    In all seriousness, I'd play the hysterical-pregnant-lady-in-the-lumberyard card. These guys have no problem playing tough-guy with contractors, but a crying woman, especially pregnant, can turn them to mush.


    I've had several criers over the years, none of them my fault. It's like watching them bleed, you'll do anything to apply a tourniquet.

  • jellytoast
    8 years ago

    Was "windows without mullions" specified in the contract?

  • live_wire_oak
    8 years ago

    We're the windows not fully specified in the contract? Who did the design work here? Surely you had to have plans? Who did those plans? If matching the existing Windows and siding was an important part of the design, it should be in the drawings and called out specifically in the window schedule from which the contractor ordered.

    The design documentation is the root of the issue.

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Obviously, unless mullions are specified there would be no mullions. Mullions are not standard and they aren't even functional; they're special add-on features and there are many variations: they might be adhesive applied inside and outside with or without spacer bars; snapped-in inside or installed between the glass; they might be wide or narrow; they might be 6, 4, or 2 panes per sash. Since these features must be carefully specified, if nothing is specified the contractor would assume there are no mullions. Many homes on this forum have no mullions and some have mullions on some windows and none on others.

    I'm curious to know how the contractor built the project without elevation drawings. Is this a design he has built before? Were there no contract drawings? Why didn't the window spec at least say "match the existing window configurations" (sloppy but effective). Who designed the project? How many windows are involved? Something seems odd about this project.

  • Vertise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    So businesses can go order any old windows they please and are not accountable for 1) whether they match the existing style and details on the house or 2) reviewing such important details with their customers prior to placing an order?

    Needed: Windows. Ordered: Windows. Check.

    I guess if the sizes were all wrong, too, the customer would be responsible for not having provided measurements because only the make and model was listed in the contract; or for not verifying the contractor had measured correctly in the first place if they signed off on measurements and there was an error.

    It's basic common sense that if one is installing windows in a house that they should match the existing windows. Trying to wriggle out of it by saying the contract did not specify what type of windows is not only shoddy, irresponsible workmanship but is unethical. I seriously doubt any judge would fall for that one.

  • User
    8 years ago

    Windows frequently cannot be matched in renovations of older homes. Not every manufacturer who made windows is still in existence. Nor does every manufacturer offer custom sizes economically. It is not always a given that addition windows match. If a customer wants a dining room addition in the style of a sunroom, they may want no muntins at all so they can enjoy an unobstructed view. If they assume that, of course, the contractor ''knows'' that, and fail to specify that in written documentation, then they have no standing if they receive something different.

    A contract is in place to eliminate assumptions. If the windows to be used were not specified, then the OP assumed one thing, and the contractor assumed another. Perhaps he assumed that the OP didn't want to spend 4K per window to have ''matching'' windows rather than 4K total. Maybe he assumed that the budget was the most important criteria to satisfy. Maybe he never even thought about anything but the window sizes that were listed, as that's the only info that he had. No one knows, because no sees no one actually asked why the windows were different than what they assumed that they would be.

    If it ain't in writing, it ain't gonna hold up as a bone of contention legally. Add the snap ins, or the new sashes. Focus on the solution. Together. Not as pointing fingers all around.

  • bry911
    8 years ago

    So businesses can go order any old windows they please and are not accountable for 1) whether they match the existing style and details on the house or 2) reviewing such important details with their customers prior to placing an order?


    The OP says, "The contract [ ] specifies only the make and model of the windows and doors" and "the manufacturer website takes you to a picture of a door with muntions/mullions when you google it," so the inference here is that the homeowner didn't realize that the windows were wrong as specced in the contract, yet you somehow believe the contractor should have. In the end, vagaries in the contract typically go against the specifier, if you had the ability to be specific and you didn't then typically you lose. I would be surprised if he lost in any court, your best bet is to follow Joseph's advice, become a significant pain in the ass for both the lumber yard and the Anderson rep.

  • PRO
    Sombreuil
    8 years ago

    As far as not matching the pics on the front page of the window manuf's website; If you go to the Lexus or Escalade website, you will always see the most fully-optioned vehicles pictured.

    This is why they are called "extra-cost options".

    The construction documents are the final word.

  • geoffrey_b
    8 years ago

    This post shows the difference between a person who is good at their profession and a hack.

    This hack didn't even consider asking if the windows / doors should match - since he lacks awareness / education. Especially if the windows are in the front of the house. I'm sure he didn't do it on purpose - cause he sure doesn't want this grief - but it demonstrates how incompetent he is to run a project and collect a fee for doing so.

    I have two similar tales of incompetence: About 10 yrs ago, we built a new 3 car, heated garage. Fully insulated, insulated doors, sheet rocked, etc. I was out of town for about 2 weeks. When I returned, I found they installed single pane windows! (This is Minnesota). This was a $40k project, not cutting corners. The exterior was sided, trimmed, etc. I wound up installing storm windows. Still ticks me off every year when I wash the garage windows.

    A friend of my wife, had a downstairs repainted. In the contract she specified a specific Pratt & Lambert color. Since it was the entire downstairs - she left for several days, while the painting was done. The color was not like the color sample - it was way more blue. The painter said he took the color to Sherwin Williams and got them to match it!!!! He told her, he always does that!! He declined to repaint since 'he only uses Sherwin Williams'. He never go paid. She got a new painter.

  • millworkman
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago


    Don't forget there are three sides to every story...............

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The OP still hasn't told us much about the project. I'm curious what kind of mullions were desired. Applied with spacer bar "Full Divided Lights"? Snap-in "Simulated Divided Lights? Half Applied and Half Snap-in? Between the Glass"?

    All of these mullions are fake and optional. You won't find any mullions in the Andersen windows in stock at Home Depot.

    You can buy the snap-in grilles from other sources and add them.

  • Vertise
    8 years ago

    Millworkman, what would you suggest the other two sides of the story might be in this situation?

  • geoffrey_b
    8 years ago

    @JDS: "I'm curious what kind of mullions were desired. Applied with spacer bar "Full Divided Lights"? Snap-in "Simulated Divided Lights? Half Applied and Half Snap-in? Between the Glass"?"

    I don't think the lady knows that there are many different kinds. That was the job of the designer / contractor: #1 to look at her current windows and see what they are, and #2 to make her aware that there are different kinds, with different costs. Once the sizes are input - it's not very difficult to get pricing on different options.

  • millworkman
    8 years ago

    I don't know snookums. We have been told the op's representational with no documentation to either document their side or prove the contractor screwed up. All we have are partial descriptions and references to a catalog cover or a home page on a website. As mentioned above their are many questions unanswered.........

  • julezah
    Original Author
    8 years ago

    Thanks again to everyone for the input. It's been very helpful as we're trying to get through this situation. I apologize in advance for the length of this response...but I'm using paragraphs! So that should help.

    Like I said in the original post, we considered this a modest addition/remodel. We had been working with an architect to design a much larger addition, but in the end decided to go a much simpler way, and just to incorporate an existing sunporch into our main living space, renovate the kitchen in its existing space, and add a master bathroom. The contractor is responsible for the project through drywalling--we're separately subcontracting the flooring, finishing/baseboards, and kitchen cabinets/countertops. The contractor was recommended by a good friend who recently had him complete a similar if not larger project, and he has done multiple projects for that friend's family members. So we didn't do as much due diligence as we should have.

    With that being the case, the contract is pretty simple, which I'm learning is a big mistake, and the "specifications" are pretty sparse. No window schedule, no elevation drawings. It was written by the contractor after our discussions with him, and he is the one who provided the model numbers (where they exist) for the windows. We told him we wanted Andersen windows (because that is what my husband's parents have and recommended) that matched our house. From that, he "specified" "Install 6068 french door with two 2 ft side-lites. Install two Andersen 3052 double hung windows in addition over existing foundation. Install one window in bath addition and new kitchen window. Size to be determined." As far as the last two windows, when we asked what we wanted, I sent him pictures found on Google images (which included grilles). I didn't realize he'd ordered anything, because there weren't discussions about windows.

    For those debating the legalities of this situation, I mentioned we've met with an attorney who specializes in construction law, and that the law is in our favor on this. This is apparently especially the case because we have an open floor plan and the spaces are not architecturally distinct from the rest of the house--there are windows and doors with grilles in each room that is being added/renovated.

    That being said, I'm VERY pregnant (and, as an aside, not of the personality to use that as a sword) and want this project completed. We're trying to get the project moving forward while getting the windows and doors that we want, and have offered to share the cost of what is at the very least a mutual mistake. I've twice tried to get the contractor to meet us at the lumber yard to look at brochures and nail down an order, once before the holidays so we could get the order placed and the project moving, and once again today. He agreed to a meeting this morning, and canceled it a couple of hours ago. We were able to finally get a meeting with a rep from the lumber yard who was moderately helpful (I say only moderately because now I've been talking with other window suppliers so I know better what options you have to choose for these windows). We're expecting a quote on new windows and doors from him (and also a separate supplier) tomorrow. We also learned from the rep that our contractor either lied to us, or at best misunderstood what the lumber yard told him, and that Andersen will take back the french doors but none of the windows. The contractor first said that Andersen wouldn't take back anything, and then said they will only take back unopened boxes.

    While dealing with the windows and doors issue, my husband measured the window openings to make sure we are ordering the right products, and one of the windows is too wide for the opening. He also discovered that the contractor is creating some sort of modified cathedral ceiling or tray ceiling in the sunporch space (which is blocked from our living area by a temporary wall and boarded up because the project stalled, so we haven't been able to really inspect the work, not that I would've recognized that anyways). This was never discussed, and is unwanted. We are adding the sunporch space to our existing living room, and expect it to be a seamless (as possible) transition. Besides knocking down the wall I mentioned above, the contractor substituted a lesser rated insulation, and tried to install wood siding instead of Hardi-plank siding, both of which were included in the specifications.

    I'm still undecided about how best to proceed, because I no longer particularly like or trust the contractor. We haven't paid for the windows and doors, and haven't paid him for any work that he hasn't completed. We've paid for all of the work performed so far. I'm worried that there are problems we're not catching, and that even with agreeing to share some of the loss on the wrong windows, he will cut corners in the remainder of the project to re-coop his portion of the "shared" loss. He's been pressuring us to allow him to insulate and drywall the spaces, even though there aren't windows and doors in place, and it's cold and there's been a fair number of days of rain (and rain remains in the forecast). I suspect that's because the contract calls for another draw at the beginning of insulation and drywall, although he's asking for a larger draw than is allotted in the contract. (Which I obviously wouldn't agree to.) It makes me nervous that he won't agree to an in-person meeting. I was planning to use tomorrow's meeting as a barometer of how to proceed, and if we couldn't come to an agreement, to basically walk away and find another contractor to finish the job.

    I guess there's a "third" side to this story, but we've worked hard to be reasonable and flexible with this project. I know things don't always go perfectly as expected. But it feels like instead of meeting us halfway and trying to come up with a solution (on ANY of the issues I've mentioned), I'm constantly met with either hotheaded responses that I assume are meant to back me down, or evasiveness and stonewalling. Certainly a customer isn't supposed to simply be a doormat to be considered reasonable?

  • User
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Your contractor is just not a designer and doesn't know how to document a design. An "Andersen 3052 double hung window" is not a specification. That size appears to be a 400 Series but there are two windows in that series, a Woodwright and a Tilt-Wash called a WDH3052 and a TW3052 respectively.

    Unfortunately Andersen calls every mullion design a "grille" so it is easy to get confused. The cheapest solution is to add their interior "removable grille" since it is usually impossible to see the exterior grilles when screens are installed.

    I believe you can oder replacement interior wood removable grilles from Andersen.

  • User
    8 years ago

    I still want to know why, if an architect was involved here, the plan that he created wasn't incorporated into the contract that the contractor bid to get? What kind of design services did you actually receive for the money that you spent there?

  • Vertise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    "Your contractor is just not a designer and doesn't know how to document a design. "

    Apparently he doesn't know how to order windows - so he shouldn't be. (No reason to expect a layperson to be to able to do that, either, in order to catch the professional's errors).

  • Vith
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    "Your contractor is just not a designer and doesn't know how to document a design. An "Andersen 3052 double hung window" is not a specification. That size appears to be a 400 Series but there are two windows in that series, a Woodwright and a Tilt-Wash called a WDH3052 and a TW3052 respectively.

    Unfortunately Andersen calls every mullion design a "grille" so it is easy to get confused. The cheapest solution is to add their interior "removable grille" since it is usually impossible to see the exterior grilles when screens are installed.

    I believe you can oder replacement interior wood removable grilles from Andersen."

    This advice sounds like the easiest to implement and least damaging to all parties. You get the look you want and the contractor wont have to eat the entire cost of the windows.

    AND no legal fees.

  • Vertise
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    As long as they appeal to the OP. Some of those inserts are flimsy and look cheap. They are also very prone to breaking. So it depends what type and quality they were supposed to be in the first place and how the fix would compare. Windows are an extremely important (and expensive) feature of a house.

  • HU-115584318
    3 years ago

    How long is too long to wait for window installation?