I bet they drowned in the extreme wet and it wasn't the larger plants from ARE. If anything that could have helped them. Maybe a raised bed with better drainage could help or if we knew that degree of rain were coming, leaving them potted till the weather improved and dried up.

SdlM for me has been a sturdier and faster grower than other roses. My Maggie band came as basically one thin little cane with a few leaves on it so I'm a little worried since we're expecting a storm that's supposed to last from Sunday through Thursday, and then more storms after that. It's grown very little in the time I've had it which is rather disappointing.

I wonder Ingrid if your cliffs, hillside could help you in times of rain avoid over wet conditions that could drown plants. It seems your drainage could be excellent, although I realize too drying in hot dry conditions.

We also got those downpours early in the year and my roses didn't appreciate it either! I don't know what the final tally is, but we had more than 70 inches this year. My garden was a MESS and the weeds were insane. I'm still pulling them. Most of my roses are in raised beds, but all I see in my soil is clay, clay and more clay. Lol, I don't know what the actual composition is. My Maggie is not in a raised bed though. I've had her for years, but only just planted her (from a half barrel planter) last year. She has pretty much just sat there doing nothing. I have several plants that do that and tend to say about it, "this one is doing some thinking." She is in all day full sun, and size is about 3x3. In my former garden, it took till she was about this size before good blooming started.

I think Maggie is just one of those that takes her time getting going. I don't have MIP.

From reading comments here and at HMF, I've gotten the impression that many Bourbons are slow starters, but once established, they can handle a wide variety of conditions, including variable weather. My default thinking is that they may need plenty of time to prove themselves before giving up... as with many Teas.

I would guess that a month or so just wasn't enough time for your plants to get a purchase on their new territory, so couldn't cope with the additional stress of all that rain. If those plants had been in place longer, they might have survived the torrents, but there's no telling.

It's an odd coincidence, though- the day after I got a Swamp Rose (R. palustris) and "Odee Pink" from ARE we got 2 feet of rain over the first 3 days of October. The Swamp Rose must've thought it was in heaven, and "Odee Pink" is still looking good, so no harm was done here. I'm so sorry you lost your plants, though.

I have a "Maggie" on order for the spring, and am looking forward to getting to know her. So far, SdlM is doing well here, so I felt I should try another Bourbon or two to see if my luck holds.

Virginia

Thank you all.

What is interesting is all my roses are in raised beds. With the poor soil and hard limestone under, that's pretty much the only option I have. All my roses had issues with PM and black spot, but these are the only two that perished. I think Virginia is right about not having enough time to settle in. I think I will stick with the SDLM bourbon family. I have found Maggie needs more water than my other roses and also has trouble with the hot dry Texas afternoon sun. I moved it last year and it seems to like its location in afternoon shade. Jury still out. I love the fragrance of Maggie though. One whiff and I was sold :))

Oddly, here in Southern Oregon, my SDLM was the only rose I had to be careful not to overwater. It did not want water and it was also from ARE 1/15. I'm getting a Maggie from them 1/16 and it sounds like watering will be tolerated better.

My Gruss an Teplitz and Variegata di Bologna were fine and not as sensitive.

It's interesting to see how the same rose has different needs based on weather. In my hot Texas weather, I am allowed to water once a week thanks to our drought. I run the sprinkler for 7 minutes once a week and mulch deeply, as recommended by the Earthkind rose trials in Texas. I used to water with drip, but the squirrels like to pull the drippers out to get a drink. I have several teas and China's and 2 bucks that are all doing great. And of course the SDLM. I put her between two sprinkler heads and in afternoon shade and she seems ok with my watering schedule. From what I read, all 4 SDLM plants did not make it through the Earthkind trials which I find a little weird. The Maggie not so much.

I also plan on adding Maggie to my garden in the spring so this is good information. My SDLM is going on its third year and tolerates the Tx heat and I water once a week too. We had all that rain last spring too and all my roses were not happy. They were so water logged that it took about a month of drying out before they started looking better. I also want to give MIP a try, she seems like a diva that does well for some and not so well for others. I figure the only way to know is to plant her and tell her to behave lol.

Before I bought MIP I called ARE and spoke with Mike Shoup himself. His tips - rich soil and more water than China's and teas. He also recommended pegging the rose to get more blooms. His book has a beautiful picture of MIP. If you like Maggie, MIP has a similar but stronger fragrance. I placed my order with Chamblees and will be putting in Quietness and SDLM in that spot.

You will love both roses. My Quiteness had blooms last week and they are beautiful, they have a peony shape to them, and I love the fragrance. I cut all the blooms for inside and had to stop and smell them every time I walked by lol. Quiteness has also been very disease resistant for me with no BS and I am in humid SE Tx.

Sheila, I'm afraid my hills won't help with drainage because my garden is planted on flat ground around three sides of the house, basically where they carved the pad out of the hills to build the house there. What I'm doing right now, and I don't really know if this is a good idea or not, is to gather the fallen leaves from some of our trees and spreading them around the garden, especially near the roses. I hope that will stop a heavy downpour from digging into the soil too much and provide a bit of a cushion to absorb the strength of the rain. I guess I'll find out this coming week and thereafter according to the weather report how well this works.

I might have planted Maggie in the wrong place because it's in the area that gets hot afternoon sun, but I thought since that won't happen until it's grown bigger and I do have a drip system without water restrictions so far it might be okay. In that same area I also have a new Deanna Krause from ARE and Jesse Hildreth and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that they will be okay.

I have the impression that the small Bourbons like SdlM and its clan are genetically not the same as the larger ones like MIP, and that the larger ones get diseases more easily. I've never had the courage or room to try the larger ones since they seem like untidy growers with octopus arms, and don't have the reputation for blooming as much as the smaller Bourbons. I also believe they're more at home in a humid climate and would resent the dry heat here.

Ingrid, I like your idea of the leaves composting around your garden and every drop of rain and drip irrigation soaking in. That will boost everything going forward. I doubt drowning in California is as likely as Texas anyway. I'm really hoping for your rain starting this week to continue for some time.

Thank you, Sheila, you are so nice. They're saying that more storms will follow this one and I'm willing to believe them this time.

Ingrid, I was interested to read that you think the smaller Bourbons prefer your dry climate. I have SdLM and MIP - my only 2 Bourbons so far. SdLM looks terrible, hardly a leaf or a bloom, and those leaves that she has are covered in disease, whereas MIP is looking wonderfully healthy, with loads of blooms. They are right next to each other, so location can't be the issue.

I had climbing SdLM in another garden in Sydney, and it did very well. I have heard that the climbing form is better than the bush, but perhaps this is only true for humid climates? Or perhaps, other factors entirely are at work.

MIP is looking so good now, after her 3rd year in the ground, that I am thinking of getting Mme Ernst Calvat to plant alongside her. I pruned her really hard last winter, and far from minding, some of the canes are weighed down with blooms. I'm telling you this, because I think you would love her.

Trish

I tossed sdlm from my former garden because it was covered in pm almost year round. YMMV. Lol

I grow SDLM, SDLM climbers, and M.I.P. In my garden. SDLM is definitely more heat tolerant than M.I.P. Three of my SDLM's receive a good amount of afternoon sun and do not fry. M.I.P. was a little finickier in terms of getting established, then was uprooted and moved to our current home/yard a few months ago. Once re- established, M.I.P. took off and has been very healthy.

Too much water, and if you have soil without very good drainage, could be a disaster for many roses, but especially less established roses. Someone suggested a raised bed. Even placing roses 6" inches above ground, I have read, can make a big difference. If I was in your situation, if possible, I would create a raised bed before trying again with the roses. Another suggestion, if you think drainage could be an issue, is to use inexpensive drainage pipes to improve the flow of water from one area of the yard to the network of paths that lead water toward the street or main drainage. By doing this, if you get a major downpour, excess water can be moved away from, instead of flooding your plants.

Lynn

To be a gardener in Sydney :) I just looked up your weather titian1. 80F in jan the hottest month and a little under 50F for July. How perfect is that..just a teeny bit envious :). Mine goes from 100+ to 20F *sigh*

Ingrid - I had Maggie in a full sun spot and it even with additional hand watering alternate days, it had trouble and barely hung in there for 2 years. I then moved it to afternoon shade and it seems to like it better.

I know it's hard to believe, but we went from 0 F (Nov 16 2014) to 110 F (June 28 2015) in the space of 6 months. Now we're back to 9 F (last night; our first 9 F was Nov 22). Horrible. Diane

I can't even imagine being that cold! Brrr! Our high today has been 47 F but also humid so it seems colder than it is especially with the wind whipping.

Ashrose I'm glad to hear about Maggie but was hoping she would be more hardy. I am still going to plant her and hope the spot I have for her is to her liking, it will have a few hours of sun followed by some shade and then more afternoon sun.

ashrose, it's true, the climate here is pretty good! I had no idea, until reading on here, how extreme the climate can be in the U.S.

Ashrose thank you for the advice on Maggie. I have one coming and after reading your comments I won't put it with the coming Teas since it might be too hot. I thought a "found" rose would be tougher than anything but not everywhere evidently.