Help, please?

I don't think there is a "best of" thread out there.

For water control, the best control you'll get (my opinion) is with a manufactured pan like a cast iron pan. With no water penetration possible into the pan, well, there you go.

I'm not a fan of any manufactured tile-on types of pans, but that's a personal preference. The only manufactured pans I like are the cast iron ones. To my eye they look great, and they perform well and last a long time.

A tile-ready type of plastic pan? Yeah, you can get good water control. But the user experience isn't always all that pleasant.

For a manufactured pan you'll need to be able to fit it into your space.

If you need or want a custom-sized or shaped shower and you want a tiled pan, then the best water control you can get (my opinion) is with a deck mud pan (easy to get whatever shape you want at whatever slope you need) covered with a surface applied membrane. Membrane can be liquid (Hydroban, RedGard, etc) or sheet (Kerdi, Hydroban, Nobel, etc). Then tile.

Walls? The same, surface applied membranes afford you the best form of water control with the easiest detailing.

As to "quality controlling" your installer? Folks have their own methods. You just want their methods to conform to the materials they are using.

Instead of anyone here trying to list each and every method, It'd be easier for you to find out what waterproofing material your installer is going to use, what steps will be used to install the material, then make sure his methods jibe with the manufacturers installation instructions. You can always come back here and post again when you get more info. I'd be happy to help as able.

There are simply so many variations, that to list all of them?

Which waterproofing method used depends on the use of the shower and the tiles selected. For example, natural stones fare better with a surface applied membrane. Glass tiles want a modified thinset but Kerdi doesn't like modified. Steam showers need vapor proofing. Curbless? You'll need a surface membrane. Using a pre-formed pan? Sheet plastic may do the trick. Curved surfaces? Benches? tub deck sticking into the shower area? local availability, personal preference.....

I just want to obtain a level of "waterproofing literacy" so I can discuss this with the contractor in an informed way. Thanks for asking the questions you need to target the information, I didn't know where to start.

- we are replacing an existing tub/shower combo, the rough in area is 60" wide to studs and 33" deep to the edge of the partition wall between shower and toilet (but the pan could project out a little from that wall as the wall could be built out and/or the glass doors mount inside the pan). The drain is located 14.5" in from the finished back wall of the tub surround and 9" in from the finished surface of the plumbing wall.

- when I said tiled pan I just meant tiled shower floor (hand built pan, or is it called a pan then?) if we use tile I was planning on hex or 2x2" porcelain - no natural stone as it's too hard to maintain with all the sealing etc.

- shower walls will be porcelain tile, glass doors.

- we plan on having a curb to contain water, no need for disabled access (the entire house is not disability friendly anyway).

- The Kohler cast iron pan we like (the Bellwether) available in 60x32" and 60x34" sizes is out of stock and backordered everywhere with at least 2 months lead time and no guaranteed delivery date, and our demo starts Jan 4.

- Kohler's Salient cast iron pan is in stock everywhere but it is only 60 x 30" so it will be on the narrow side and DH is tall, would like a couple extra inches of elbow room, with a 60x30" pan we'd end up with a 27-28" wide shower after finished walls and glass doors. That seems a little cramped.

I dislike plastic or acrylic pans after having one in a previous home - hated the feeling underfoot (the bumpy stuff) and keeping it clean. So it looks like tile will be the way to go, but I'm paranoid that it will not slope correctly to the drain, leak, etc.

Thanks for the info. The next question becomes - do you want the cheapest , best, or most DIY friendly ?

A balance of budget friendly, best :) We are not DIY'ing this reno, I've done a lot of DIY but too much work beyond my abilities to do here!

Then it's a matter of who you hire to do the job and their overall pricing. As long as you get some sort of warranty with the work, it doesn't matter which TCNA approved method they use. We guarantee our showers for life. Others don't. Get a few quotes and compare the differring systems used. After selecting a contractor, give us the details of the waterproofing method he's fixin to use. Take LOTS of pictures along the way.

I'll add this: If you go with a site-built pan (deck mud) with an embedded CPE or CPVC membrane liner? Make sure they install a deck mud preslope on the subfloor, then install the liner on the preslope, then they'll need another layer of mud on top of the liner and the tile gets set on that second layer of mud.

A very common shortcut, which also happens to be a code violation, is for an installer to set the liner directly on the flat subfloor. This results in a liner that is not sloped to the drain. Then they install a single layer of sloped mud on the flat liner and tile on the sloped mud.

shower pan with CPE membrane cross-section

Get the latest issue of Journal of Light Construction. It's got one of those "Yep, this guy knows what the hell he's doing" articles in it this month.

MongoCT & Creative Tile Eastern CT, that's exactly what I needed to know. thanks!

We just added tile floors to our bathrooms. Outside of the tub, shower, and around the vanities under the tile our tile installer used "Red Guard" to protect against water damage. Hope that this helps, if not inside the shower, definitely on the outside. Good luck!

They did a membrane between the studs and the backerboard. For the floor, membrane over the first step sloped mortar bed, then the layer of mortar for tile. It sounds like this is correct according to above, they seem to know what they are doing so I'm letting them do it now :)

Our installer is using a Schulter system with drain. On the walls we will have cement board, then kerdi board over that. I feel confident in our installer that he can pull this off without future issues.

Good luck!

@mark, cement board & kerdi board does not make sense. Cement board & Kerdi membrane I could understand.

@creative tile Yes, I'm sorry Kerdi membrane will be over the cement board. I'm not 100% up on the lingo/terms. So you think that will be ok?

Installed according to manufacturer specs it's a great system. The most basic thing to watch for is proper thinset. UNmodified / dryset mortar. Schluter has very detailed installation videos online and packaged with the drain. I suggest watching them yourself so you will be educated and aware of proper procedures. It's always better to get your answers from the manufacturer instead of an on-line forum. That way you avoid misinformation although well intended. Same with You-Tube videos. A lot of bad instructions. How are folks to know which is correct? Avoid the minefield and go straight to the source. For this reason I have each tech dept. for the products I use programmed into my phone. Same resources available to the consumer.

@creative tile so if we skip cement board we can just go with Kirdi board without the membrane? That was the other option our installer gave us.

YES. If you go to my houzz page in PROJECTS there will be one titled Schluter Kerdi System before & after.

Another option would be PSC Pro Advanced shower kit. There is a complete installation video.