I did not book tours ahead of time for either the Sistine Chapel or the Coliseum, but I visited in the fall when tourists may not have been as numerous. I would not include the breakfast, but that's just me. Too many other less costly and attractive/free choice options.

We had private guides at both. Early June, booked ahead. I personally prefer humans to audio guides, but everyone is different. I would also skip breakfast.

For what it's worth the price for an official guided Vatican tour is 32 euros. Breakfast plus early admission is 58 euros. (This is for adults, the kids would be slightly cheaper). So it is 26 euros more for an "American" breakfast in a courtyard at the Vatican and early admission.

Also we are planing to rent an apartment via Airbnb or vrbo or the like so there will be no free breakfast.

By "free choice" I meant you wouldn't be "stuck" with a pre-determined menu. Very little is free in Europe.

Ah, I see. We are staying in a hotel in Florence and I made sure to reserve one with breakfast included because I tend to wake up hungry and don't like having to figure out what to do for breakfast. So breakfast is kind of "free" or more accurately already paid for.

In Rome we should have a refrigerator, etc so we can stock some food. But I admit that I actually like the idea of having breakfast planned, so that is part of the attraction to the Vatican breakfast for me, assuming it is a decent breakfast. Say we would have spent ten euros per person on breakfast anyway, then we would be spending 16 euros on early access. Would it be worth 16 euros to see the Sistine chapel uncrowded for twenty minutes? Does it matter that three of the people are kids so on the short side (well, Ds will probably be just about as tall as the next door neighbor mom by then as she is 5'3" and he's already a bit over 5' 1".)?

Hmm . . . .

My neighbors would need to agree anyway as we are planning this part of our trips together and I think their budget is a little tighter than ours just by virtue of having three people to pay for instead of two and because they are going to be in Europe longer than we are. But at any rate, I want to only present the idea if it is a good one.

We didn't do an official "Breakfast at the Vatican" tour, but we did book the earliest tour. We were among the first 10 in line, so we didn't have to stand waiting for very long. Well worth the effort to get up early & get going. Across the street from the tour entrance is a coffee shop where we got yogurt, coffee, & pastries for breakfast.

Also, we booked a private tour guide, an art history student, who was excellent.

Personally, I would not go to the Vatican in summer without having booked a tour; we were very happy to walk past the long, long lines of people and go right in. We had a private tour with a guide, arranged directly. She was excellent. I agree that a private guided tour is the way to get the most out of an experience.

However, it was the height of the tourist season and even with a private guide and not waiting in any lines, I felt the crowds totally ruined the Sistine Chapel. It was like a NY subway platform at rush hour, and the crowd propelled you through the space quite quickly. No chance to feel the awe. So if there is a way to avoid that, pursue it.

We had a private tour of the Colosseum arranged through our hotel, but I had not heard of a night time one; that sounds great!

Have fun; so exciting!!

Thanks! I do keep reading that in the summer the experience of Sistine Chapel in particular is compromised by the crowds, perhaps especially by the guards loudly shushing and reminding people not to take pictures. It's more money, but it doesn't seem like an outrageous amount more considering it includes an "American" breakfast, apparently even pancakes are served. We could bypass the lines (sometimes as much as four hours long reportedly!) at the Vatican by buying timed entry tickets directly from the official website, but that would not help with the crowds inside at all.

I think the Colloseum at night would be pretty cool and it would likely fit into our plans nicely as we will probably only have three and a half days in Rome and we could do a night tour on that half day after arriving in Rome from Venice.

Both the breakfast at the Vatican and the night Colloseum tour are available through the official sites as well as via tour companies. I'm not finding much of a comparison between official tours and tours run by outside companies. The official tours are cheaper. So that's a bit of a puzzle.

Wouldn't you go to Venice from Rome via Florence

We are going to Florence first because our neighbors do not want to do that part of the trip (they are starting in Spain). So we will not be stopping in Florence on the way to Rome. Venice to Rome is about three hours by high speed train. I haven't gotten to scheduling actual train time yet, but I'm thinking we can take a morning train from Venice to Rome, arrive mid-day, check into to our lodgings and still have time for a quick dinner and a night tour of the colosseum.

I hope your kids are old enough to appreciate the Vatican Museum. That's a lot of art and history, and it takes awhile to get through it. You know your kids, though. I was there is late October and it was still pretty crowded. We did have a private guide who used those personal listening devices which were an enormous help. Frankly, I was somewhat appalled by the behavior in the Sistine Chapel. People sneaking out their phones for photos when they were clearly asked not to do that and sitting along the sides chatting like they were in a public park. I was still awestruck by it, of course. The kids will undoubtedly enjoy the Coliseum, especially if they understand what went on there before they go in. With kids in tow, that's where I'd put my money.

I don't know how much the kids will get out of the Vatican. But I am pretty strongly of the view that I count too. So my kid--thirteen years old by the time we get to Rome--can suck it up for three hours if he doesn't love it. (If my neighbor wants to skip it; that's fine, we can always split off for half a day.). Ds is getting a lot of say in what we are doing on the trip overall--he picked Italy and he picked the three cities and he has already gotten to choose at least one thing in each which I have promised we will do (assuming no catastrophes).

On the other hand, I am willing to try to make the experience more pleasant for him--breakfast seems like a positive in that direction as does trying to avoid the crowds.

IMHO, it would be heresy to go to Rome and not the Vatican (and not because I am religious; I am not at all). I think my youngest was 8 when we went. To me, that is one reason to hire a private guide or somesuch. To make it less arduous so you don't lose their attention and energy, and to make it something they can relate to or at their level. A private tour or the breakfast would do that.

At 13, I would perhaps get him involved by asking him to figure out three things he wants to see or learn about at the Vatican. That kind of thing gets them engaged.

My kids would have been pretty miserable during that tour at those ages, but they were two very outdoorsy snowboard, skateboard kind of boys. They might have enjoyed the naked people, dead saints, devils, etc, and goofing around with the listening devices.

I agree that you should not go to Rome without seeing the Vatican Museums, and it sounds as if your kids may tolerate or even enjoy it. I'm just saying that if I had to put my money in one experience, it would be the Coliseum with kids in tow.