First of all, I don't know this rose. I have recently planted Papa-Gontier-the-shrub, still a baby. I know nothing whatsoever about the climber. But for what it is worth, and that means possibly not anything at all, I am moved to share my experience with 'Sombreuil', the climber that is sometimes called 'Colonial White'. I had it on an arbor for a number of years. For several years it had a few (3? 4?) very, very long canes, much like the ones you describe on Papa Gontier Climbing. The time came to re-stain the arbor with wood preservative, and we simply could not do it with this thorny creature in place. I cut it down to about 18 inches from the ground. I know, brutal. I did not know if the rose would survive or not. But to my happy astonishment, it exploded with a dozen new canes. It looked like an octopus! Far more robust than it had ever been before. Now I have no idea at all if Papa Gontier Climbing would do the same with this treatment, or shrivel up and die, or continue on as usual. I only offer it as an example of blind luck. (So of course the very next year I took Sombreuil out and replaced it with a grapevine. It is a very nice grapevine with very delicious grapes. Yum.) Folly

It can take climbers a few years to really start putting out large climbing canes - before that they put out much smaller canes. What I would do with a new one is let it alone for at least 2-3 years, until it suddenly puts out a fat big cane that shoots out 8-10 feet or more. THAT is the cane I would then (after letting it grow to its full length) train the way you have read about "how to train climbers". The smaller canes these roses put out in the beginning should be left alone, so that the rose can eventually get up the energy to send out its mature climbing canes. You will know the difference - the real climbing canes are startlingly different than what the bush does at the beginning. Jackie Jackie

Buford and Jerijen: Wow, thanks so much for the good advice and encouragement! I feel alot better now about pruning this beauty. The only question I have is about cutting out dead canes: It was probably hard for you to tell from the picture but in order to cut the dead canes out the two blooming canes must go, as I'm pretty sure they originate on those ugly grey trunks. Do I just cut off those whole things to the ground and hope that the other (very few) smaller canes will step it up? or do I cut the silver-greys back to where the blooming canes start? There are also LOTS of canes with no leaves on them (you can see some on the top left, more near that horizontal long cane on the right). Should those all be cut off too, because of disease? Johnny Cabot: I like your suggestion about cutting it down severely and starting over, but I think my grandma would freak if I did that! It almost feels like the only option though because like I mentioned above, most of the growth is off of those old grey canes. Maybe I'll do the 'cut by 1/2' thing and hope for the best. By the way, beautiful rose! I'm very envious....How do you get so many blooms without horizontal canes? If I read right you don't really prune it? I'm pretty sure my rose is not a John Cabot though, as it blooms throughout the summer (according to my grandma) and has very few thorns. It is also more red and darker than yours, a cerise type color. I appreciate your trying to identify it though, I'm curious as well. I posted in the other forum (see the link below) more pictures that might help if you want to figure it out. My best guess is a red excelsa/red dorothy perkins. They fit the time frame and are the same color haha. Here is a link that might be useful: Identify this Rose!

Stephen, if you're finished, congrats!! It was a wonderful weekend to be outside. Hope you didn't get sunburned! I've been finished for a couple weeks but I'm still healing - I've got a large thorn still working its way out of my thumb. Ouch. This weekend I got out the shovel and played in the dirt, digging up perennials and moving them around (to what I *hope* will be better spots), and dividing daylillies. I also hit the local nurseries for the first time this year. Didn't buy much. Yes, that means I did buy a few things. They always get me with those $4 small pot perennials. My 10 month old walked in the grass in bare feet for the first time this weekend - now it really doesn't get much better than that!