hpersky: I think these are very different people with a lot of thing sin common. They see a problem, they adress this to a newcomer and the endresult is to get rid of all newcomers. The thing in Arizona reminded me very much of this argument. Over here I saw this documentary in which several people stated that these MExicans were dangerous and carried guns.....yes, may be....and how is that unique to Mexicans??? In The Netherlands, we have the same thing constantly now. Muslims are the problem of: hate against gays, are badly inegrated, are prolific, are agressive, are a threat to us, are the main cause of violence and theft etcetcetc. And it is all based on examples (tons of them) and it is believed by nowadays 20% of the voters. The facts are very different. But examples, pictures, are strong. Just like that kakapo...Which is not the victim of competition (like in plants, which we are discussing here) but by a predator and the kakapo does not live on a continent, but on an Island. I do not think a kakapo is worth more or less than a stout BTW. If we believe in Dawinism, than the kakapo is a victim of its lack to defend itself. No one is to blame. I LOVE all animals. In fact, I have helped young birds from predatory birds. Just because I consider myself a full part of nature and it is my instinct to protect the young, defensless bird. So too the kakapo: I think it is a very placid, lovely bird. It would be very difficult for me not to protect it when I saw it under attack. I wonder if people would think the same if a dangerous mosquito was under attack from a newcomer btw.... But is the kakapo really the victim of the stout. Did New Zealand nature flourish before invasive species came on the Island. This has been researched on almost all pcific islands: the population of almost all birds was dwindeling well before predatory mammals were introduced. It was...us! It were Polynesians for instance. Was the Moa killed by European mammals? No, it was not. And this is not just an example, this is the redline: the only invasive species which has had a constant impact on its own all over the world is us. Focussing on invasive species without taking this factor into account, is the same as what we do with immigrants blaming them for things caused by ourselves. Which we constantly do. The part of Europe and the uniqueness that is lost. Not a single part of Europe has an "ecosystem" that was not (heavily) modified by humans. So what caused this loss in "uniqueness"?? Invasive species? One thing is certain: never on their own. Besides: if you say that plants lose some traits, you have to be fair. The newcomers gain new traits. Fro instance: Sitkaspruce in Europe is now different from its American borthers and sisters. We now have European landraces and these are indeed protected. So yuo gain seomthing "unique". Another thing is that we also gain unique compositions never witnessed by modern man. For instance: in NW Europe you have woods constisting of more different trees than ever before. Like Tsuga-Abies-Picea-Pseudotsuga-Quercus-Fagus forests. If "unique" means something "good" than we win something and we lose something. But the words used by this sceintist are hardly scientific. They are trying to appealing to our emotions. "sSomething unique is lost!! Forever!"...They appeal to the fact that we do not want to use something of "value". Which is not scientific, as value is something personal. It is also single sided: it does not mention that we get something else back. It is like saying that we lose our culture, because our Dutch music gets lost, our language is heavlily influenced by English and changing rapidly our architecture is influenced by foreign artists etcetc. First of all, like in nature: this is nothing new! The Dutch language for instance is littered with germanisms. I repeat myself. If you only focus on what was, then you only lose something. If you look at everything, you must say that things change and you got something back. So the Dutch language and culture is in constant flux and like nature, more than ever! Ecologists are prone to attribute value to some things and not to others. So they mention losing something that is of value to them and they do not mention gaining something that is if no value or even undesirable. What is or what isn't desirable is a personal thing. Not something science can dictate or even prove. Almost all things we have lost when it comes to biodiversity, is lost because of habitatloss and hunting by us. It is rarely if ever lost by introductions of specieson continents and certainly not by competition. The introduction of species has lead to huge local increases in biodiversity and globally, because of a few losses mainly on Island by disease and predators, is going down. New species can provide valuable habitat for other speies, oldcomers or newcomers. And sometimes, we discover new species in introduced forests. Like in The Netherlands, wehre a totally new fungus (mushroom) was found in a forest of Pseudotsuga Menziesii...

I, too, am a planted native of Western WA. Throughout my childhood and youth, I foraged for berries all over Western WA. Now, in my own garden, although the majority of my plants are non-native, I have a lot of native plants interspersed here and there, that have volunteered and that I have nurtured, including both red and evergreen huckleberry and oregon grape, trilliums, etc. I have had all the berry plants growing in everything from complete shade to lots of sun. From my berry picking days, to my own plants, I can tell you that, even though they will grow in the shaded understory of the forest, the plants that produce the most berries, by far, are the ones that get more sun, and the more the better. This holds true for the flowering currents. As a berry picker, you always try to find a good thicket at the edge of the woods, with an eastern exposure. They really like several hours of morning sun. Sun exposure between 2 and 4 pm can kill young plants, but once established they can take that as well, if watered properly. I have a volunteer evergreen huckleberry growing out of a log in my back yard, in full sun, that is happy as can be. It gets enough water, because it's near a hardy fuchsia. A caution on fireweed (if that is what it really is). I have lived in Alaska, also, where it could almost be the state flower. It is a root runner and can be quite invasive, especially here in WA, where it doesn't get the winter cold to keep it in check. Salal, also a native, is also a root runner, but it is very hard to get established, if not growing there naturally. I have known people, whose yards are backed by a large forested area, that absolutely hate it. Regarding soil....all our native plants do like a highly organic, slightly acid soil. I have extremely light, sandy soil, which dries out very fast in the summer. My success with the natives has come from giving them a good, deep mulch of medium shredded bark, with fines in it. In the years I don't mulch I can really tell they are not happy. Good luck!

wfike, are you adding wood shavings to improve the texture of the casts or to help aerate the bedding? I've read, and surmise, that wood shavings take a long time to break down, so I'm assuming you aren't adding them as feedstock, am I figuring this correctly? I've also read, from several older vermi books (and the Vermiculture_FarmersManual), that horse manure by itself is not the best feed, but that cattle manure is good. Do you mix the 2 as feedstock and bedding? I guess what I'm trying to understand is whether you use horse manure as feedstock and feel it is an adequate feed by itself. I added soaked, torn corrugated cardboard to the horse manure because I'd read that it has excellent nutrition due to the high-protein glue that is used to hold the layers together. Another advantage that corrugated cb has is it's water absorbancy, so the 2 (horse manure and corrugated cb) mixed together make a good bedding and a good feedstock. But, you know, you can find all sorts of contradictions when comparing books, websites, and opinions...so I'm interested in what you find to be true, based on your experience. Cheryl, I have been freezing the food waste lately. It does seem to speed things up a bit, but there is still the issue of varying amounts of water being released, mold/fungus, and odors if you use too much or have strong smelling foods to vermicompost. I've found that as much as I want to keep food waste from the landfills, it's a lot of aggravation (too much water, mold, fruit flies, fungus gnats, march flies, houseflies, odors..etc), inconvenience (both of my freezers are half full of food waste for the worms, leaving only half for my own food), and guess-work involved in feeding food waste to the worms. Now, if I didn't have access to horse manure and corrugated cardboard, I would still use primarily food waste. But since I do have access to those materials, I much prefer using them. I have encountered very few issues/problems using horse manure and corrugated cb. So, I ease my conscious by reminding myself that these 2 items would have been dumped in a landfill somewhere, had I not taken them. I still plan on freezing some food waste to use as trench feedings in my raised beds. This practice has eliminated all issues/problems with using food waste because it is buried 4-6" under the soil, and I have many worms in my raised beds who process this food quickly (and thank me for the cold stuff when it's hot outside). The junk mail I use are advertisements for credit cards, various insurance, and a hodgepodge of solicitations. I just remove them from the envelope and tear into strips that could be used as bedding (I put them in the compost crate, so they will be partially composted by the time the worms get to it). I don't use glossy papers, not because they are bad for the worms, but because they take forever to break down and I don't like the look of them in the compost. The Vermiculture FarmersManual recommends shredding cardboard that has a waxed coating, so I assume wax is safe to use if shredded or had the wax seal broken in some other fashion . I've read that oils are not good for worms (I assume oil would smother them since they breath thru their skin), but I wouldn't think a small amount would be harmful. The boxes that you have should be fine. Most of the corrugated cardboard that I use has colored printing on it and I haven't noticed any problems with it (the majority of people say that most inks are soy based now). I also use shredded office paper in the indoor bin I just created, and to absorb water from the barrel bins outside when rain has been heavy, and that paper has been thru laser printers. I haven't seen any ill effects from any of the paper products I have used. Welcome to the thread, Cheryl. I look forward to reading about your experiences in the vermi-world.

Jane and OA, the Homco nativity set is a nice size as you can tell by the picture. Glad you liked the GB plates too. Jane, how sweet, you miss my sharing the new things I paint. I hope to get back to painting again one of these years in my spare time. I will send you a picture of our big shed! OA, what I meant to say was I didn't display my gingerbread things I did last year. Do you like your dish drawers? Nice you are using your dishes this year. I should use more of mine. Too busy decorating and shopping to pack away the old and bring out the new. Lynne, so glad to have you back posting. Hope you will be sharing some of your decor soon. Marlene, I'm not sure I'm going to go get more totes out of the shed this year. If I don't those poor wise men will not be reunited for another year!ha The Homco set is a pretty nice set. I also have a silver set but I can't seem to photograph w/o glare so I can share. Thanks ladies. Your sweet comments make all this decorating worth my time. Punk