I am all about basic French 4 ingredient bread..

3 3/4 cups bread flour
1 1/2 tsps. salt

2 packets yeast....or equivalent
1 1/3 cups water
Mix....knead or give it a long cool rise, punch down, rise againe shape into 2 loaves cover, rise until double, slash and bake in 475 preheated oven to which you have tossed some ice cubes just before baking. Bake about 20 to 25 minutes until browned.

I do Jim Leahey no knead.

500g flour

1.5 tsp salt

1/4tsp yeast

350g water.

Mix to a rough dough and leave for 12 to 18 hours. Great for pizza, bread, rolls. Effortless!

More information please.... Were you looking for an enriched white bread, using enriching ingredients like milk, eggs, fat, sweetener (baked in a loaf pan), or a lean white bread (French/Italian bread)? Do you want it for making sandwiches or toast? Fine texture, or an open/holey texture? There are many different types of "white bread" to choose from, so more information would help to choose the "right" recipe for you.

lindac92, why the ice cubes? You put these ice cubes in a oven safe bowl prior to putting bread in to bake?

grainlady_ks, not sure if you call it a French type bread. It would be baked in a bread/loaf pan. Like homemade bread from a bakery. Nice and light.

Here's a favorite. It doesn't make sandwich bread; it comes out as a rustic round loaf, about the size of half a basketball. Unless you have forearm strength like Popeye, though, you'll need a fairly hefty stand mixer with a dough hook.

ITALIAN BATTER BREAD (from Bernard Clayton's New Complete Book of Breads)

1 ¾ cup
hot water (120-130 degrees)

4 ½ cups
bread flour

2
packages dry yeast (I used Red Star Platinum with good results)

1
teaspoon salt

Equipment: one round pizza pan, 12 or 14 inches, greased
and sprinkled with cornmeal (disposable aluminum pizza pans work fine)

(also, optional: a mixing bowl, greased and sprinkled with cornmeal)

Start
with the mixer flat beater or whip; as
the dough gets stiffer switch to the dough hook. (Or, if you want to start with the dough
hook, it’ll work out just as well, in my opinion.)

Pour two
cups of flour and the hot water into the mixer bowl. With the mixer running, add the yeast and the
salt. Beat at medium speed for 3
minutes. With the mixer running, add the
flour in ¼ cup increments until it’s thick and heavy. Once all the flour is added, change to the
dough hook if you haven’t done so already, and beat the dough at high speed for
25 minutes, if your mixer can stand it.
(You may need to stop to let the mixer cool down. That’s okay, or if you can only mix it a
medium speed that’s okay too.)

The dough
will be very rubbery and elastic. You
may need to stop the mixer every now and then and scrape the dough down off the
hook, then restart the mixer.

First Rising:
2 to 3 hours Scrape down the
sides of the bowl, cover with plastic wrap, and allow to rise in a warm spot
until about triple in volume, about 2 to 3 hours. (One minor change I do: instead of leaving in the mixer bowl, I dump
the dough into a second bowl which has been greased and dusted with cornmeal—that
makes the next transfer easy. Cover the
bowl with plastic wrap while the dough is rising.)

Second rising:
about an hour Gently scrape the
dough on to the greased pizza pan. It’ll
be very soft and poofy, and try not to deflate it too much as you transfer
it. Put flour on your fingers and tuck
the edges under so you have a fairly smooth top. Cover with a flour-dusted cloth, and leave in
a warm spot to double in volume, which will take about an hour.

Twenty
minutes before you start to bake it, preheat the oven to 400 degrees.

Once the
second rise is done, remove the cloth from the dough and bake on the center
shelf of the oven until golden brown and crusty, about 50 minutes. To check for doneness, turn the loaf over to
make sure it’s browned on the bottom, and give it a thump: it should sound hollow.

Transfer
to a metal rack to allow it to cool a bit before slicing or tearing into
chunks.

Joan: just answering for lindac; the ice cubes are just tossed in the oven on the bottom to increase the humidity in the oven. It makes the crust more um, crusty. The humidity is usually reserved for open loaves of french bread. Other similar methods are to pour a little water into a cast iron pot/pan already preheated in the oven and some gently drop a preheated brick into a waiting pan of water.

I have been making essentially Chinese Japanese milk bread (panko) lately. It makes a great loaf. The unusual issue is that some flour is mixed with a little milk and water until bubbly on the stove and then after cooling, this mix is added to normal white bread ingredients except lots of butter that is added after half the kneading is done. Here it is.

Joan-

French bread is generally made into a free-form baguette (which is French for stick). Not panned (formed in a bread/loaf pan).

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/homemade-french-baguettes.html

Check out the link to Fleishmann's Yeast and see if this is the type of bread you are looking for: Beginner's White Bread

http://www.breadworld.com/recipes/Beginners-White-Bread

Looks like Annie was the only one paying attention to what Joan requested. ;)

French for "stick" is baton...baguette means a long thin loaf of 4 ingredient bread....derived from the Italian for wand, bachetta. And there are lots of French breads that are not formed into a 24 inch baguette, like a batard a boulle and a pain d'epi...to name a few...all with the same dough.
And yeah what Chas said....just toss the ice into the oven as I put in the bread....makes for a good rise and a crisp crust.

And 4 ingredient bread is not a "nice light white bread"? B ut a bread with eggs sugar and milk is??

LindaC, when she said "light" I thought she meant with a soft crust, not the crunchier and crusty baguettes or boulle. Since I don't have a Pullman pan for sandwich type bread, I just use a loaf pan and brush the top of the loaf with butter while it's still hot, to keep the crust soft.

Annie

A Baguette is a stick. A baguette magique is a magic wand, for example! A baguette d'encens is an incense stick.

Now you see why I asked for more information.....? There are so many kinds of "white bread", and I'm still not satisfied the original poster will be choosing the recipe they are looking for from those posted in this thread.

I would have thought one of Annie's recipes would have been the choice for "white bread", not a French baguette, which isn't a panned bread. But the first post didn't mention if the bread was baked in a pan, or not. "...homemade bread from a bakery. Nice and light." still isn't giving me enough information to select a recipe.

There are also techniques that need to be incorporated for each style of bread. For instance, if you want a fine close-grained, tender white pan bread with a thin soft crust, this is a bread generally used for sandwich bread. The close crumb will hold a spread without it falling through holes, and you can cut the slices thin. In that case, the fat is added early in order to coat the gluten to prevent it from developing into long strands. A sandwich-style bread can be baked in a regular loaf pan, but a Pullman pan does an even better job since it will yield a crustless square loaf. This is using an enriched dough, with fat and milk included in the ingredients list.

If you want bread to use for toasting, you want a more open crumb, and you add the fat later in the mixing, often as late as during the kneading. This type of texture is more open for all those nooks and crannies to hold melted butter and jelly. Also an enriched dough, but may include egg. Add more sugar to this recipe and you have a sweet dough used for cinnamon rolls.

And there are many variations of those choices. Farm-style, Artisan, a white bread used for making stuffing, a fine crumb used for making French Toast, white bread with mashed potatoes or potato flakes... Pillsbury, Betty Crocker, Fanny Farmer, and every common cookbook, they all had recipes for "white bread".

If you want a holey texture (really large holes), hard crunchy crust, that requires a lean dough (French/Italian bread), but is typically NOT panned.

But this is probably too much information for someone who isn't familiar with bread making. The information I need to know is how it is intended to be served/used, and the general characteristics of the crumb and crust?

-Grainlady

I make 2 loaves of white bread bi-weekly. I also use the same recipe for hamburger buns, just shape them.

This is the recipe a friend sent me, and I'll c/p as she sent it. This makes 4 loaves, so I cut everything in half for 2 loaves.

Basic White Bread

The secret to really good handmade bread is to knead it well-really
really well.

In a really large bowl pour in

2 c. HOT water (boil if u have to)

1/4 c white sugar

4 tsp. salt

1/4 c shortening-**I use part margarine and part bacon drippings

1 c of water-use this after your yeast has risen to kinda clean
out your yeast container.

Stir all of the above well(I use a whisk) and cool to lukewarm

Meanwhile dissolve:

2 tsp. sugar-I use 2 TABLESPOONS

2 pkg of yeast-I use 2 TABLESPOONS

1 1/2 c of warm water

Stir well-let stand covered for 10 minutes.

Now one thing you HAVE to know is that the amounts of
sugar and salt cannot be changed in a bread recipe(to suit those that have a
sugar or salt issue regarding "fats"-this bread will NOT harm
a diabetic made this way-it will,as anything,only harm the diabetic if they eat
too much of it!)

Now mix all of the above together-stir the yeast now that it has risen
into the large water/shortening bowl-stir well,rinse out the yeast container
with that one cup of water I told you about in the beginning.

Start adding flour,up to 10 cups-usually mix in the first 5,and
then add one at a time as you go thru the process.The dough will be a good
sized ball-keep working it-if u need to,you could divide it up,but I never do-I
try to work it all at once-

You will use close to the 10 cups and it will require a lot of
kneading,but you can do it-nothing to it.

Once you have a nice smooth,elastic ball,place it into a large bowl and
cover for an hour or 2 in a warm out of draft area-it will double its size.

Take it out after rising,roll it and knead it some more,then slice into
one pound or larger chunks-work them a bit as well.

Pam your bread pans,shape dough into loaves-I roll mine out like pie
crust and then roll them up into loaves-that gets all of the air out,and you
end up with a loaf of bread-not air bubbles.

Cover the loaves-depending on the size of your bread pans,you should
have 4 or 5,and let them rise now until larger than the pan.

Bake @ 375 for 30 minutes.

Wow, this sounds more complicated than I originally thought. When I get bread from a bakery, they usually put it in a paper bag, but since I prefer a soft crust to a crusty crust, I usually put it in a plastic bag before it cools completely and the crust seems a little softer. I guess what I'm looking for is a light slice, but not really holey so that butter/jam, etc doesn't fall through. Not a baguette type type I guess, but maybe a little sweet but not as dense as store bought sandwich bread either. If I understand correctly, a recipe without egg and milk would be a lighter bread.

Well jasdip, maybe this is what I need to try. I will cut in 1/2 as you do, and hopefully this will allow me to use my stand mixer with the dough hook. Thanks so much everyone for all your comments. I probably won't get a chance to try it til at least next week, but will let you know how I make out.

Joan

jasdip - Could you clarify this part pls :

1 c of water-use this after your yeast has risen to kinda clean out your yeast container.

After the yeast has proofed, just rinse out the container with hot water.

Joan, the only time my bread gets those large holes shown at the top of the loaf, is when I don't pinch the seam tight enough. It's strictly operator error.

The 1/4 cup shortening in the recipe, is very flexible. You'll use 2 tbsp for a 1/2 recipe. You can use 2 tbsp butter or margarine, or 1 tbsp each of butter and shortening, lard, bacon grease, whatever. I always keep a little jar of bacon grease in the frig and I usually use that, with butter or margarine.

I guess what I'm asking is..... this extra water that you rinse the yeast container out with .... is it subtracted from the amounts of water in the above ingredients and added to the mixture? or is it just extra. 1 cup seams like a lot extra.

What you want to know is the total amount of water.....I agree that wasn't clear.
If you want a sandwich bread, try this.
1 cup milk....scalded

2 1/2 tsps. salt

2 T. sugar...white or brown

Mix....add
1/2 cup cold water

Add 2 1/4 tsps. dry yeast to
1/2 cup warm water ( I add a pinch of sugar)
When foamy, add to the milk mix ( provided it has cooled to blood temperature)
Start beating in flour adding a total of about 6 cups...turn out on a board and knead in the last bit when it gets too stiff to stir< knead until smooth and elastic, about 6 or 7 minutes>
Put into greased bowl, cover and allow to rise until double, punch down and let rise again. Turn out onto a board and divide in half, place in greased pans and allow to rise until double while the oven is preheating to 375. Bake for 40 to 50 minutes until nicely browned and loaf sounds hollow when tapped. Turn out of pans to cool and brush with butter. Repeat the butter brush when it's almost cool.
Makes great toast!
I have also done the above with just water and added 1/2 cup Carnation powdered milk to the recipe.

Oh, sorry Joan. It's extra. In the original recipe you'd add an extra cup of water for the 10 cups flour. I just rinse out the yeast cup with some more hot water.

Still havet said the total amount of water in the recipe.

2 cups hot water to dissolve the sugar, salt and fat

1 cup *more* to rinse out the yeast container.

Bread is so forgiving, if it's too wet (which happens often in humid weather) add more flour.

Then what amount of water did you use to dissolve the yeast in?
And yes bread is forgiving up to a point, when you start to add up to a cup more water, then you mess up the balance of salt and that can result in flat tasting bread.

"2 tsp. sugar-I use 2 TABLESPOONS

2 pkg of yeast-I use 2 TABLESPOONS

1 1/2 c of warm water

Stir well-let stand covered for 10 minutes."

I always make 1/2 the recipe to make 2 loaves of bread, and I do as follows:

1 cup hot water to dissolve 1/2 the sugar, salt, and fat in.

3/4 cup water with 1 tbsp sugar and 1 tbsp yeast

The I rinse out the container with another 1/2 cup water (approx. I don't measure, I just rinse it out.)

I don't use the full amount of salt, as I can taste salt in bread and I don't like it. I don't use the amount of salt stated in *any* recipe.

So...you use about 2 1/4 cups of water? Not a full teaspoon of salt....but there is salt in the margarine and bacon fat....much more than in the shortening originally called for.
And that only makes 2 loaves? Big loaves!

Nice loaves of bread, or a loaf of bread and some rolls

Jasdip, I have a couple of big loaf pans from Cuisinart, I seldom use them because they are so big, I'll bet your recipe would perfectly fill those two. I've never used bacon grease in bread, although I've used lard, now you've got me thinking. I usually reserve the bacon grease for the corn bread pan....

Joan, if you want to try something slightly different, I've made rolls with this recipe from King Arthur Flour. The technique is very different, but the texture of these are very nice. There are instructions for shaping a loaf at the end of the recipe, although I've only used it for rolls.

Japanese Milk Bread Rolls

Tangzhong (starter)

• 3 tablespoons water
• 3 tablespoons whole milk
• 2 tablespoons bread flour

Dough

• 2 1/2 cups bread flour
• 2 tablespoons nonfat dry milk
• 1/4 cup sugar
• 1 teaspoon salt
• 1 tablespoon instant yeast
• 1/2 cup whole milk
• 1 large egg
• 1/4 cup (4 tablespoons) melted unsalted butter

Directions

1. To make the tangzhong: Combine all of the ingredients in a small saucepan, and whisk until no lumps remain.
2. Place the saucepan over low heat, and cook the mixture, whisking constantly, until thick and the whisk leaves lines on the bottom of the pan, about 3 to 5 minutes.
3. Transfer the tangzhong to a small mixing bowl or measuring cup and let it cool to room temperature.
4. To make the dough: Combine the tangzhong with the remaining dough ingredients, then mix and knead — by hand, mixer, or bread machine — until a smooth, elastic dough forms.
5. Shape the dough into a ball, and let it rest in a lightly greased covered bowl for 60 to 90 minutes, until puffy but not necessarily doubled in bulk.
6. Gently deflate the dough, divide it into 8 equal pieces, and shape each piece into a ball.
7. Place the rolls into a lightly greased round bun pan. Cover the pan, and let the rolls rest for 40 to 50 minutes, until puffy. To use another pan, see "tips," below.
8. Preheat the oven to 350°F. Brush the rolls with milk or egg wash (1 large egg beaten with 1 tablespoon cold water), and bake for 28 to 32 minutes, until golden brown on top; a digital thermometer inserted into the center of the middle roll should read at least 190°F.
9. Remove the rolls from the oven. Allow them to cool in the pan for 10 minutes, then transfer them to a rack to cool completely.
10. Yield: 8 rolls.

Tips from our bakers

• These rolls can also be baked in a 9" round metal pan for about 25 minutes.
• To make a loaf: After the dough's initial rise, divide it into four equal pieces. Flatten each piece into a rectangle, then fold the short ends in towards one another like a letter. Flatten the folded pieces into rectangles again and, starting with a short end, roll them each into a log. Place the logs in a row of four — seam side down and side by side — in a lightly greased 9" x 5" loaf pan. Cover the loaf and allow it to rest/rise for 40 to 50 minutes, until puffy. Brush the loaf with milk or egg wash and bake at 350°F for about 30 minutes, until golden brown on top and a digital thermometer inserted into the center of the loaf reads at least 190°F. Remove the loaf from the oven, and cool it on a rack.

Annie

Slightly OT, but if you're gonna be making bread a lot using a mixer, these three things will simplify your life:

One, get a scale with a tare function that can report the data in metric. Makes measuring the ingredients nearly foolproof.

Two, convert your recipes to metric weight, including the liquids. X number of grams of water, for instance, instead of fluid ounces.

Three, learn the concept of 'baker's percentage' in which all measurements are a percentage of the weight of flour. Awkward at first but it soon becomes second nature.

This is the recipe I use for basic Home-style white bread.

Home-style White Bread

1000g flour

420g milk (heated just to take the chill off)

200g water

85 g melted butter

7g yeast

27g salt.

Note: This dough is at 62% hydration ( 420g milk + 200g water = 620g)

Place the flour and water/milk into a large plastic dough pail or container

and mix by hand.

Cover and leave to rest

for 30 minutes (autolyze).

Mix the yeast with a tablespoon of water and add to flour mixture, along

with the salt and melted butter.

Mix by hand using the pinch and fold method.

Leave to rest covered for another 20 to 30 minutes.

Stretch and fold every 20 minutes for the first hour and then

leave until the dough has doubled.

Shape into two loaves. Place in buttered loaf pans.

Cover with plastic wrap or a tea towel.

When the dough has proofed, place in a preheated oven (375°F)

and bake for 30 minutes

or until bread is golden brown and the internal temperature is 200°F.

Looks yummy Ann. Thanks.

Ok folks, I found a recipe that someone gave me probably 30+ years ago that I remember liking. I tried it this week and it turned out good. Was a big quantity, so I cut it in 1/2 so I could use my stand mixer and dough hook. This is the recipe I used (cut in 1/2). I still need a little more practice in how much dough to use when shaping into leaves. Mine came out huge. Ended up with 3 extra large loaves, so probably could have gotten 4, or 3 loaves and some rolls. I had a wood fire going in the house, so was nice and warm to rise.

Part A

2 T sugar

2 T yeast

1 1/2 cups warm water

Part B

1 cup shortning

4 cups hot water

1 cup sugar

10 tsp salt

Once part B cools, add 2 cups cool water and mix in 5 1lt containers of flour.

Bake at 325 for 50 min.

When it came to the flour, I just used a measuring cup and kept adding and counting so I'd know how much I used. It came out to 8 1/2 cups.

Thank you all so much for all the information and I may try some of these after the holidays to see if I like any better, or for rolls.

Happy Holidays

Joan

I caught an episode of Cooks...(is it Illustrated?), last night while doing many things....Bridget made a sandwich loaf, (and made it seem complicated) but it was informative and the usual wordy but made sense. It was a wet dough with extra yeast, so, very quick....if making bread is ever really that quick.

Worth looking up.

Sleevendog, I saw that episode a few weeks ago. It intrigued me but I doubt I'd make just one loaf of bread. Here's the recipe.

Easy Sandwich Bread

Courtesy of Cooks Illustrated

Makes 1 Loaf

To prevent the loaf from deflating as it rises, do not let the batter come in contact with the plastic wrap. This loaf is best eaten the day it is made, but leftovers may be wrapped in plastic wrap and stored for up to two days at room temperature or frozen for up to one month.

2 cups (11 oz) bread flour

6 Tbsp (2 oz) whole-wheat flour

2¼ tsp instant or rapid-rise yeast

1¼ cups plus 2 Tbsp warm water (120˚)

3 Tbsp unsalted butter, melted

1 Tbsp honey

¾ tsp salt

1 large egg, lightly beaten with 1 tsp water and pinch salt

In bowl of stand mixer, whisk bread flour, whole-wheat flour, and yeast together. Add 1¼ cups warm water, 2 tablespoons melted butter, and honey. Fit stand mixer with paddle and mix on low speed for 1 minute. Increase speed to medium and mix for 2 minutes. Scrape down bowl and paddle with greased rubber spatula. Continue to mix 2 minutes longer. Remove bowl and paddle from mixer. Scrape down bowl and paddle, leaving paddle in batter. Cover with plastic wrap and let batter rise in warm place until doubled in size, about 20 minutes.

Adjust oven rack to lower-middle position and heat oven to 375 degrees. Spray 8½ by 4½-inch loaf pan with vegetable oil spray. Dissolve salt in remaining 2 tablespoons warm water. When batter has doubled, attach bowl and paddle to mixer. Add salt-water mixture and mix on low speed until water is mostly incorporated, about 40 seconds. Increase speed to medium and mix until thoroughly combined, about 1 minute, scraping down paddle if necessary. Transfer batter to prepared pan and smooth surface with greased rubber spatula. Cover and leave in warm place until batter reaches ½ inch below edge of pan, 15 to 20 minutes. Uncover and let rise until center of batter is level with edge of pan, 5 to 10 minutes longer.

Gently brush top of risen loaf with egg mixture. Bake until deep golden brown and loaf registers 208˚ to 210˚, 40 to 45 minutes. (If using a 9 by 5-inch pan, check for doneness 5 minutes earlier.) Using dish towels, carefully invert bread onto wire rack. Reinvert loaf and brush top and sides with remaining 1 tablespoon melted butter. Let cool completely before slicing.

Joan-

So glad you had a successful baking day!!! :-)

Here's a chart from Beth Hensperger's book, "Bread Made Easy" A Baker's First Bread Book so you'll know approximately how much each size loaf pan holds, and approximately how much flour is used in a recipe for that size pan. You need to weigh your dough on a kitchen scale. If there is enough dough in the recipe, you can make one loaf the size you want/need, and also make other things, like a pan of dinner rolls, hamburger or hot dog buns. It doesn't have to be all loaves with the type of recipe you used. I always made small 1# loaves (enough for us for 1-week), then made another 1# loaf for the freezer, and any remaining dough was made into dinner rolls, burger or hot dog buns, 6 sticky pecan rolls - whatever I was low on in the freezer.

I posted this yesterday, but it's AWOL this morning.....

Jumbo Pan - 10x4-1/2" - 4 to 5 cups flour - 2+ pounds dough

Quick Bread Pan - 9x5" - 4 c. flour - 2# dough

Standard Pan - 8-1/2x4-1/2" - 3 c. flour - 1-1/2# dough

Medium Pan - 7-1/2x3-1/2" - 2-1/2 c. flour - 1 # dough

Small Pan - 5-3/4x3-3/4" - 1-1/2 c. flour - 8 oz. dough

Miniature Pan - 4-1/2x2-1/2 - 3/4 c. flour - 6 oz. dough

FYI: Make sure you don't let the dough raise to the size you want the finished loaf because that would mean you are over-proofing the dough, and that may be what caused your large loaf size, but it can also be due to the wrong amount of dough in the pan (which is a common mistake).

The amount of dough you place in the pan is approximately 1/3 the size of the finished loaf. You allow the dough to rise until it's approximately doubled that original size (which is equal to 2/3 of the finished size). The oven spring (the amount the dough continues to rise when you first place it in the oven) accounts for the last 1/3 of the finished size. With this tip, you can gauge what the approximate size of your finished dinner rolls, burger or hot dog buns, etc. will be. My tip for making hot dog buns is to roll the dough in a cylinder about the same size (or just slightly larger) as the hot dog you are going to use. Weigh the amount of dough, and then scale that amount for the number of buns you will need so they will all be approximately the same size. This will be important so they are all the same size, and they raise and bake the same.

-Grainlady

Grainlady, that's great info.