Round bottom wok on open burner vs sealed burner vs flat induction
Inspired by Trevor's post in this thread, where he compared time to evaporate 1/3 cup of water with round bottom wok on BlueStar open burner and Wolf sealed burner and concluded that for residential range, open burner wins. I think it is a fair test to see how good a burner can sustain the heat for residential wok cooking.
I have a similar experience, however, based on a different open burner design. My burner is from Asko, manufactured by ATAG of Netherland (They belong to the same parent company, Gorenje). The burner market name is "Fusion Volcano Wok Burner". This burner has three rings: outer ring sealed burner, rated at 6kw in Europe (5.5kw, 19.7Mj) here in Australia), middle ring volcano (open) burner, rated at 3kw in Europe (2.7kw here I think), and inner simmer burner. The inner burner is always on, while burner and volcano burner are alternate; they cannot be on at the same time.
The volcano burner is not quite exactly the same as open burner in BlueStar, Capital, or commercial, but it does direct the flame towards the centre of the pan. In Australia, BlueStar and Capital open burners are not available. At the time of my kitchen renovation, this Asko looks like the best domestic unit I can get my hands on for wok cooking with gas, and it didn't disappoint me. Although, initial flame out of the box was a bit wimp, with a small adjustment, I have been quite happy with how it performs.
Also for fun, I also use a bridge induction unit for wok cooking sometimes with wok adapter ring from De Buyer and Electrolux. The induction can be boosted to 3.7kw for 10 minutes.
Following Trevor's usage of 1/3 cup, I also use 1/3 cup (80ml) of water and a Chinese carbon steel wok 13" for timing experiment to evaporate all of the water
- Volcano open burner (2.7kw+), 4min 16sec
- Outer sealed burner (5.5kw), 9min 57sec
- Induction with De Buyer ring (3.7kw), 2min 55sec
- Induction with Electrolux ring (3.7kw), 3min 34sec
Here it is, the same conclusion with Trevor: open burner wins over sealed burner for round bottom wok cooking on residential gas burner.
I have worked on the induction unit many times, but past experiences have said that I preferred the volcano burner. Perhaps, it was due to how cooking with preheated wok was different to evaporating water from cold test above.
More detailed pictures to follow.
Comments (28)
Chanop
8 years agoHere are some more pictures for the gas burner test.
First, for the volcano burner test, flame is directed towards the centre of the wok. At 49sec, it starts boiling. At 1min 7sec, it comes to rolling boil. At 3min 7sec, still boiling, and quite a fair amount has evaporated. At 4min 16sec, done!
Second, for the ring sealed burner test, flame does not look that suitable for wok as it mainly points outside, licking just the side of the wok. At 2min 52sec, there is a small amount of bubble. At 6min 45sec, visually there is no real action, but some amount of water has evaporated already. At 9min 57sec, done!
Chanop
8 years agoHere are some more pictures for induction hob.
First, with De Buyer ring, at 20sec water starts boiling. At 36sec, it boils vigorously. At 2min 26sec, almost gone. At 2min 55sec, done!
Second, with Electrolux ring, at 28sec water starts boiling. At 1min 57sec, it has been boiling for a while, but not as vigorously as De Buyer ring. At 3min 34sec, done!
Related Discussions
Sealed vs Open Gas Burners
Comments (42)bally70, The professional style ranges have bigger burners. You will find this is the case open or sealed. Most have a small pan or simmer burner that is smaller to accommodate a smaller pan. That being said, I have a Wolf range with sealed burners and regularly use pans that are 7 inches in diameter. This is a video I made of a pan, 7 inches in diameter caramelizing sugar on the bigger burner. Pretty even heat. Scroll down on this link and you will see the Capital Culinarian open burner with the flame wrapping around the flat bottomed Wok. It has more to do with being bigger burners. Also scroll to the bottom of this thread to show even with an open burner you must adjust the heat down for a smaller pan. My burners have minimal flare until you get to the very highest heat. If I need to use a 6 inch pan or smaller I use the small burner. I can use it on the bigger burner if centered perfectly and because the pan is heavy aluminum so the heat is conducted to the middle of the pan. You will need to turn the burner down in any case so the flame is under the pan. If you turn the burner on to where the flame is going around the pan, you are wasting your heat and it will take longer to heat what you are cooking. Low to moderately high heat makes a ring about 4-4.5 inches across. If your flame is going sideways, something isn't right. I would also look at what kind of cookware you are using. Some conducts heat much more effectively than others. It has nothing to do with the costs but the properties of the metal. How did you determine the efficiency of your burners the old and the new? I don't find it taking very long to boil water but it is not a priority for me. If boiling water in the quickest way possible is important, induction is probably the way to go. Maybe a single plug in induction hob would be something to consider. I couldn't tell you which would be the best. The burners you have are not poorly designed but are different and many people are surprised when they go from a conventional range to the prostyle that the burners are wider....See MoreSealed burners or open burners on range?
Comments (32)@ foodfiend_gardener, Most of the pricer lines have places where you can try out various cooktops - that's what I would try to do. You might have to go to more than one place, but its a small price to pay for some decision information. I would also consider induction. Forgive me it this has been covered above. A rangetop generally has more space for larger pans because the unit itself is deeper - there is more space available from front to back. I would view that as a positive EXCEPT if its placed near a corner with opposing cabinets. It may require a 4" or so filler to permit the next cabinet around the corner to open completely. The same kind of consideration would need to be given to access for the cabinets on both side of a decision to place a rangetop across a corner. @marthavilla - I think it depends on your personal experience with sealed burners. Just like there isn't the one-true open burner design, sealed burners from different manufacturers are different. I'm pretty sure they vary widely in actual performance (mine have). Same pots, same cook, but different results. I think there isn't a big generality that explains or reconciles every view of open vs. closed. I don't have the budget for an expensive cooktop/range so I'm more familiar with the pretty bad burner designs on the more modest end of the money spectrum where the burners are always sealed. I'm not saying they're all bad, just that the ones I cooked on were. The thing about single ring burners and the center being cold? I have actually experienced this (for 7.5 years) on the last range. I think its possible that the physics-speakers are not making enough allowance for stupid burner designs. In my case, the diameter between where the flames are perpendicular to the bottom of the pan at medium was close to 8 inches on the power burner. Even when the burner was turned all the way down, the effective flame diameter was still more than 6 inches. The more the burner was turned up, the further out the flame moved and the larger the "flameless" center became. It was my experience that the effect of "cold center" on that burner was barely changed by heavier cookware or cookware that was more conductive. It could be changed by stirring. It's possible that I just didn't own any cookware big enough and heavy enough (I would have trouble lifting something like an enameled cast iron pot with at least a 12" diameter on the bottom). The 17k power burner design was Extra-Stupid but the 11k burner design was ok. It had a diameter almost 2 inches narrower between the flames. A properly heated cast iron pot could fill-in the cold center. I couldn't use the same pot (3 qt casserole) on the power burner because the flame would miss the pan on any setting > 1. As a matter of fact, the setting at 2, 3 and 4 was the same as 1 - this was true on all its burners. Because I could literally take the same cookware outside where I had an open burner camp stove - its has 30k burners that I never turn up more than halfway. A 30k burner turned up all the way is a scary burner to me. It was easy for me to ascribe the difference to open v. closed burners. The burners on a culinairian look like a tamed and refined version of camp stove burners. My new range is the baby NXR with 15k dual stacked burners and I'm pretty happy. I get done cooking in less time with better results in doing simple things like browning chicken. I can boil a gallon of water in 15 minutes on any burner. This is a miracle to me. On the stupid sealed burner design, I couldn't boil 2.5 pints of water in 20 minutes without stirring. So, not-stupid closed burner designs have removed some of the open burner desire.. I still think positioning more of the heat in the center of the pot at all power levels is better than positioning it closer to the outer edges. Open burners win in my mind at being able to effectively heat a wide variety of pan sizes and many types of cookware on the same burner....See More36' Bluestar drop in open burner vs Capital Maestro sealed?
Comments (11)I actually owned the BS drop-in and it was great. It wasn't the easiest to clean but it also wasn't that bad. The only pain was having to remove all the grates *and* the knobs to lift the top. That said, I wouldn't have traded it for any sealed burner cooktop. I looked at the Capital and the power wok burner but the sealed powerwok suffers the same problem as every high powered sealed burner I've seen... it spreads the heat to widely. I demo'd both prior to buying the BS and the powerwok burner had all the heat going up the sides of the wok and the center wasn't getting much heat at all. I don't think they've redesigned that burner significantly so I wouldn't recommend it if you are really serious about wok cooking. If you get the BS, get an extra grate so you can modify it to accept a wok without the wok ring. Also, the grates on it are continuous, unless you have a different definition of that than I do. There are a couple of things with the BS to make it better: 1. get the extra grate and modify it. 2. ask if they will replace the rear center and rear left burner to simmer burners. They come with the 15k burner but it looks like they used the same 9.5k orifice they use on the simmer burner. If I recall correctly, this was due to fire certification because they didn't want to put a 1" back on it. 3. make sure you get the "white-glove" warranty extension. Not sure if they still offer that but you get an extra year and a BS tech out to check things out. 4. open up the top first thing and put foil under the burner bowls. I used foil to form little catch cups that I put into the support riser to the burners. Bits of food and liquid that fall down the center hole of the burner will fall into this area that is almost impossible to clean without slicing your hands. The catch cup prevents the need to get your fingers way down there. You'll know what I mean once you get in there. IMHO, there's nothing else on the market today that can even come close to the BS if you are looking for a drop-in cooktop. As a consumer, I'd love to see another player enter the market here... hint.. hint.. BTW, the comment about loosing drawer space is because the open burner design of the BS make it vertically thicker/deeper. The BS extends about 2-3 inches lower below the counter top than average sealed burner cooktops. Good luck with your decision....See MoreBlueStar vs FiveStar Open Burner; Reliability, Service, Clean-up
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jmarino19
8 years agoifoco
8 years agoChanop
8 years agoChanop
8 years agolharpie
8 years agoChanop
8 years agokwdewinter
8 years agoChanop
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoChanop
8 years agoI wrote about interesting 23.5 Mj Neil Perry Kitchen work burner in this thread. A couple of weeks back I went into their showroom again to do the same 80ml water evaporation test. The result on the same wok for this burner is 6min 17sec. It definitely is hotter than my Asko/ATAG outer ring rated at 19.7 Mj, but still not quite as good as the inner Volcano burner for small wok for this test.
kwdewinter
8 years agokwdewinter
8 years agoChanop
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoHouzz interface is a little different. I think you have to click on my profile name (or go to http://www.houzz.com/user/schanop) then click send message button from there.
Or perhaps, via your profile page, there should be a "message" tab.
I have four woks in the drawer under the cooktop, 13" thin carbon steel, 15" slightly thick carbon steel, 14" thick, hand hammered carbon steel, and 14" cast iron. If I cook an amount of food for one small plate sharing i.e. about to fit one Corelle 8" 15oz bowl, I can get pretty good searing and heat sustainability on all those woks that I have. They just take different amount of time to heat up.
First picture is my 13", and quite a full plate of food for Corelle bowl.
Second and third picture are for my 15", and a good fitting amount of food on Corelle bowl.
For my cooking, the volcano burner works very well for me to do a number of smaller sharing dishes per meal. You can get a good wok hei, and a good sizzling though out a cook with smaller batch. However, if a wok is loaded up with food, results may not be as good as other more powerful alternatives.
Chanop
8 years agokwdewinter
8 years agoChanop
8 years agoChanop
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoI went to my friend place who has Highland (local Australian brand) 22 Mj/6kW burner. As far as I know this is a German burner that can be found on many gas cooktops, ranges, and rangetops. I am pretty sure it is the same as Miele domino wok hob, older wolf all gas range with dual ring sealed burners.
Repeating the same test with the same wok and 80ml of water. It took 7min 25sec to evaporate water. So it seems to sit in the middle between Neil Perry wok burner at 23.5 Mj @6min 17sec and my own burner at 19.7 Mj outer ring @appaling 9min 57sec.
I saw Trevor in this video taking the cap of Wolf burner that looks similar to this Highland burner for his flame direction experiment. I gave it a go for the sake of fun. Same experiment, and it took 5min 50sec to evaporate the water. Thumb up for straight up flame direction. Bubbling pattern looks more vigorous than when cap is on. The wok may also sitting a bit low for optimal heat, but that's just a guess.
sub
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agothank you Chanop, for this very informative thread !
On my modded gaz hob, it's faster with the botom of the wok close to the burner head.
I've saw a promising gaz burner on aliexpress but I didn't manage to found the manufacturer. :/
Chanop
7 years agoChanop
7 years agoChanop
7 years agoThank John for additional data point on BlueStar. 3min 40sec seems to be consistent with Trevor's test on Capital 3min 36sec with 25k BTU burner.
For my AEG induction wok hob @ 3.2kW, it takes just 2min 52sec to evaporate 80ml of water. It is best however to see in pictures how this behaves.
This is a 14" wok that fits the curvature rather well. It sits with bottom half or third touching the recess area. This is somewhere around where the water edge is. It is also around the area where induction coil locates. You can see the darker seasoned area. That's where the main heating zone and my main cooking zone is.
At a few seconds in after the induction unit starts on P, we can see bubbles forming. That makes sense as it is the area where induction coil is.
At 11sec, steam starts to form. Bubbles now form a solid ring around the edge.
At 16sec, steam starts to fill up my cooking area.
At 41sec, this is smoking hot wok. Water is boiling vigorously though out. It is a bit difficult to see with this amount of steam, but you know what it is.
This show the amount of steam from a different angle.
At around 2min mark, the huge heat from induction is dying down. This is mainly because the water level drops below the area of the induction coil. So it is entering the much cooler spot. The heat that keeps evaporating the water now is from conduction, which is not the best thing for thin carbon steel.
You can see that it takes quite a long time to evaporate this very small amount of remaining water. The slight red glow clearly shows where the induction coil is.
At last, we get there by 2min 52sec.
Cheers to induction wok hob. You're the best.Chanop
7 years agoFor completeness-sake, I am repeating the experiment with AEG supplied clad wok. The stainless steel clad wok is 16" and quite heavy. It supposes to have better conductivity compared with thin carbon steel wok.
At 8sec in, bubbles start to form clearly around the induction coil zone.
At 15sec, boiling is quite even through out the whole area.
I tried to capture the steam in picture, but it is as clearly seen. However, bubbly boiling water is quite clear at 23sec.
At 1min 14sec, quite a good amount of water has already been evaporated. The wok is still creating a good amount of bubbles which is quite different to carbon steel wok where boiling activity is much reduced at this level of water. So it is quite clear that this clad wok is doing much better at spreading out heat from induction coil zone down to the bottom.
At 1min 32 sec, we are almost there.
And at 1min 48sec, we are done.
Despite this wok is doing much better at conducting heat to the middle, I don't use it for my regular stir fry mainly because it is much heavier which makes tossing food very awkward and it does not have seasoning which means food sticks. However, I often use this pan for steaming, cooking pasta dishes, as well as making some sauces where high heat and non stick property of carbon steel wok are not required.Chanop
7 years agoFor completeness-sake, I am repeating the experiment with AEG supplied clad wok. The stainless steel clad wok is 16" and quite heavy. It supposes to have better conductivity compared with thin carbon steel wok.
At 8sec in, bubbles start to form clearly around the induction coil zone.
At 15sec, boiling is quite even through out the whole area.
I tried to capture the steam in picture, but it is as clearly seen. However, bubbly boiling water is quite clear at 23sec.
At 1min 14sec, quite a good amount of water has already been evaporated. The wok is still creating a good amount of bubbles which is quite different to carbon steel wok where boiling activity is much reduced at this level of water. So it is quite clear that this clad wok is doing much better at spreading out heat from induction coil zone down to the bottom.
At 1min 32 sec, we are almost there.
And at 1min 48sec, we are done.
Despite this wok is doing much better at conducting heat to the middle, I don't use it for my regular stir fry mainly because it is much heavier which makes tossing food very awkward and it does not have seasoning which means food sticks. However, I often use this pan for steaming, cooking pasta dishes, as well as making some sauces where high heat and non stick property of carbon steel wok are not required.
homepro01