My old house wiring doesn't have a ground wire. What to do?

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

So I am adding a 6 outlets (3 gang) behind the tv to hide all the goods and cables. I went up in the attic and tapped into an existing line (put a junction box with a cover nailed to a rafter). Maybe the correct word is spliced not tapped? Anyways.

When I cut the existing wire, lo and behold, just a hot and a neutral wire. The new cable I am using is a 12-2 standard residential wire. I only have one device that requires ground (an xbox). The tv, modem, router, and roku do not have a ground prong.

So my question now is, what should I do? The entire circuit is on an AFCI breaker. My best guess is to put a gfci receptacle first in line of the 3 new outlets, then daisy chain the other two that way those outlets are gfci protected also. That should protect me if there is a grounding issue right? It would trip the receptacle.

I really don't want to rewire the whole house for labor and cost reasons.

Any advice or confirmation on my idea? Thank you :)

Featured Answer

Fred S

8 years ago

last modified: 8 years ago

2008 NEC

250.130 Equipment Grounding Conductor Connections. Equipment grounding conductor connections at the source of separately derived systems shall be made in accordance with 250.30(A)(1). Equipment grounding conductor connections at service equipment shall be made as indicated in 250.130(A) or (B). For replacement of non– grounding-type receptacles with grounding-type receptacles and for branch-circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch circuit, connections shall be equipment grounding conductor in the branch circuit, connections shall be permitted as indicated in 250.130(C)

(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:

(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50

(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor

(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates

(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure

(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure

FPN: See 406.3(D) for the use of a ground-fault circuitinterrupting type of receptacle.

406.3 General Installation Requirements. Receptacle outlets shall be located in branch circuits in accordance with Part III of Article 210. General installation requirements shall be in accordance with 406.3(A) through (F).

(D) Replacements. Replacement of receptacles shall comply with 406.3(D)(1), (D)(2), and (D)(3) as applicable.

(1) Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where a grounding means exists in the receptacle enclosure or an equipment grounding conductor is installed in accordance with 250.130(C), grounding-type receptacles shall be used and shall be connected to the equipment grounding conductor in accordance with 406.3(C) or 250.130(C).

(2) Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupters. Ground-fault circuit-interrupter protected receptacles shall be provided where replacements are made at receptacle outlets that are required to be so protected elsewhere in this Code.

(3) Non–Grounding-Type Receptacles. Where attachment to an equipment grounding conductor does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (D)(3)(a), (D)(3)(b), or (D)(3)(c).

(a) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another non–grounding-type receptacle(s).

(b) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a ground-fault circuit interruptertype of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked "No Equipment Ground." An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuitinterrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.

(c) A non–grounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a grounding-type receptacle(s) where supplied through a ground-fault circuit interrupter. Grounding-type receptacles supplied through the groundfault circuit interrupter shall be marked "GFCI Protected" and "No Equipment Ground." An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected between the groundingtype receptacles.

Comments (8)

Ron Natalie
8 years ago
GFCI will meet the code requirements for occupant protection when there is no ground wire. Be sure to mark the protected receptacles as not having an equipment ground as required.

The problem is that it's still better to have an equipment ground. But if you can't run new wiring, the GFCI is your only real option.
Josh thanked Ron Natalie
ionized_gw
8 years ago
You don't have to "rewire the whole house" to add a grounded circuit.
Josh thanked ionized_gw
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They need to have a path back to the panel (don't pretend you found "ground" on a pipe somewhere), but they don't need to be individual wires all the way back. You can join up grounds, and a #12 or #14 is ok. These are to carry the current from one fault somewhere for the time that it takes to trip the breaker, so they don't need to be bigger than the branch circuit wires and how many you join up doesn't affect wire size needed since we assume only one will be conducting fault current at a time. Connect the ground wires to any junction boxes along the route. You don't need to add additional junction boxes just for the grounds. The ground should follow as closely as practical the route of the hot and neutral on each circuit. If a fault current has to make a big loop (hot from the panel, fault somewhere to ground, and a different path on the other side of the house back to the panel) the breaker trip time can be extended because magnetic field effects limit the current. You want a very large fault current for a very short time to trip the breaker fast, not 40 amps for a long time heating things up before the breaker trips.
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rileyann, I don't think Joefixit had read the original posts about the ground wire. The truth is that I don't fully trust that ground wire - that's part of the reason for making a home run to the breaker box. If you don't feel comfortable making the connection in the breaker box, hire the whole job done. A professional will do a good job of getting it to the box, and getting it grounded properly. I think that running a new conduit (which is what would need to happen) may put the the job outside your current abilities. Just so you know, current code requires at least two 20 amp small appliance circuits in the kitchen that feed almost nothing else (the fridge can be on one of those, a kitchen clock outlet and an outlet for a gas stove are all that's permitted to be included with counter-top outlets - no lights and certainly not GD and/or DW). There's a little more to the code than that... but you can google it. I don't know if your remodel would obligate you to meet current code, but it's good to know what that code is. For sure if your counter-top outlets, GD, DW, and Fridge are all on the same circuit it needs the GD and DW split off. The circuit is over utilized even if there wasn't a rule about counter-top outlet circuits in the kitchen being kept separate. The point is you need to make a home run back to the panel and you probably need to hire it done.
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Ron Natalie
8 years ago
To amplify on ionized's statements. The house almost certainly DOES have a ground. You only need to rewire the circuits you want to HAVE a ground to have them grounded.
Josh
Original Author
8 years ago
Correct. The breakers are grounded, but most of the house uses 14 gauge wire with no ground. Would 14/1 be the correct way to say this? I'm thinking not but i really don't know.
ionized_gw
8 years ago
If you have enough 12 and it is not too much more trouble to pull it compared to 14, I'd go with that. Whether you need it or not really depends on the power needed from that 3-gang box you propose. (I have a UPS running my DVR and that can draw a lot of power in the charge mode.) To me, it seems like 20 A circuits are pretty standard now except for maybe lighting-only circuits.
Josh
Original Author
8 years ago
Right. Well it is a little out of the way considering my house has like 5 fireblocks per stud pairs and I already patched up the wall. Everything is pretty low power, so I guess it will have to do. Should I at least put a gfci as the first in the line?
1dove1
last year
This is so helpful, thanks everyone for your input, really needed this now.

My old house wiring doesn't have a ground wire. What to do?

Fred S

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My old house wiring doesn't have a ground wire. What to do?

Fred S

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