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njbuilding143

Granite Installed... Wrong Edge for Bathroom Vanities!!

njbuilding143
6 years ago

So the granite crew came in today and installed the granite in the kitchen as well as all the bathrooms.. We walked into the house and went right to the kitchen and loved the way it looked.. There was a minor item that we need to discuss with the builder which is that the granite seems like its on an angle and not cut straight near sink. Didn't have tape measure with me to see if its a physical or just visual thing.. The other problem is that all of the bathroom vanities have the wrong edge.. We paid for an upgraded edge to be put on all of the granite countertops.. I believe it was called "ogree".. They did the upgraded edge in the kitchen but the bathrooms got a regular square edge.. Is this an easy fix? The builder is already out for the day but I left a message for him... Here are some pictures..




Bathroom Edge:

Comments (34)

  • houses14
    6 years ago

    ditto.

    I have ogree in existing home but did not like that much. My new built has easy edge. My countertops will be installed by coming Monday. I can't wait :-)

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  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Appreciate the input.. Sophie Wheeler.. So what you are saying is there is no way for them to change the bath vanity and make it ogree without starting from a fresh slab? If that is the case then what is a fair "credit".. The upgrade was $2000 for all vanities.. I think the break down was like 1500 for kitchen and 500 for bathrooms.. I know that we had an 8k budget for granite which covered the granite in photographs with normal edge like the bathrooms got.. Would it be fair to just say to leave the bathrooms and not be charged for the kitchen's upgraded edge?


    Houses14 - congrats on the granite install.. Can't tell you how excited we were to get the granite in.. Just one more step closer to getting into the house lol.. I think its worse now seeing the house so close to being completed.. Making us more and more anxious lol...

  • My3dogs ME zone 5A
    6 years ago

    I have Ogee edges in 3 bathrooms and have never had a chipping issue. They would have to remove the tops and the back splash on each to re-do them.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    My3dogs... Thanks for the input.. I am trying to be fair with the situation.. I wanted ogree and will have to discuss with builder what options I have.. We don't "hate" the simple design that is in bathrooms but I am not sure if they will eat the 1500 from kitchen edge to avoid having to fix bathrooms.. I guess it will depend on the amount of work to remove everything, fix, and then re-install..
  • kirkhall
    6 years ago

    You also need to weigh the "cost"/risk of having the tops removed and replaced and possible damage to cabinets/walls v a simple, reasonable credit. They might agree to the kitchen upgrade value, but I think it'd be more likely they'll offer just the bathroom upgrade difference--$500.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Kirk.. Any damage would be the responsibility of builder since granite crew is one of their usual sub contractors and as such hired through them via contract.. I don't mind keeping the granite edge but again I would feel that the fair credit would be the cost to remove and do the proper edging or at least a significant portion.. IF in fact the granite can be altered without sacrificing the size of overhang and such then a fair credit would be a significant portion of cost to do everything.. Not the actual upgrade cost.. By installing the wrong edge they "deprive" the owner (me) from having what I want.. I will have to talk to the builder but depending on whose fault it actually was will probably determine what the credit will be.. For example if the builder forgot to tell fabricator what edge to put on the builder is on hook and would be responsible for all costs associated with removing and fixing.. So it would be up to them on what is worth more.. Chancing damage, loss of time from moving forward with other areas, etc.. If fabricator installed wrong edge its on them and in my opinion would probably just rather eat the cost of the kitchen upgrade vs having to send their crew, which was 3 guys, to come and remove.. They then have to redo the edge of three bathroom counters and then send same crew back to reinstall.. On top of that they would be responsible for any damage from taking out and putting back in.. I'm not in granite business so idk what the real costs are with these things.. Again this is also depending on if these edges can be changed without sacrificing the size of overhang.. Idk the procedure for this type of fix.. Do they have to cut edge off and start fresh? Or do they just alter the current edge.. Idk.. I guess I'll have to wait till Monday and see what the builder has to say..

  • dekeoboe
    6 years ago

    How many bathrooms are you talking about and how big are the vanities?

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    There are 3 bathrooms total that were done wrong.. Vanities are not big.. They are 5ft, 3ft, and 2ft...
  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    And to top it all off, besides the issue with the edge, we need to talk to builder about the kitchen sink.. I didn't even realize it but the builder never even spoke to us about kitchen sink size and they just installed this one.. Forgot to mention that before.. One of the first things we talked about after looking over the actual granite was how small the sink looked.. Then after talking to each other a little more we realized that neither of us were ever asked about the sink.. (FYI the builder/project manager will sometimes call one of us to go over something if we are not together at the time and depending on importance we sometimes make decision on our own).. So we measure the sink and its 20 inches wide by 15 or 16 front to back.. This is situated in a 36 inch cabinet base.. So we went back through the paperwork and there is nothing mentioned in contract or our plumbing fixture order in regards to kitchen sink size.. The only thing we have about kitchen sink is the drawing that was given to us that the builder and cabinet maker came up with which shows a significantly larger sink.. Honestly when they said the granite was getting installed I didn't even think about the sink cutout.. So that is going to be another discussion I will be having with the builder.. But the question is going to be what can be done now... I am sure that the sink can be enlarged as far as the cutout in granite.. But who is responsible for that.. Too many oversights.. I guess I can take some of the blame for not thinking of this.. But when you hire a builder they are supposed to be the ones on top of stuff like this or at least that is what I thought they are paid for..

  • Rachel (Zone 7A + wind)
    6 years ago

    Dogs you not go pick plumbing fixtures? I had to pick shower heads, faucets, sinks, toilets, etc.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Mama Rachael - we did go to pick out fixtures.. However when we went they only told us the brand name of kitchen sink we were getting.. We never discussed size.. And the kitchen sink is not listed on the fixture printout because we never chose it.. I don't know where or how they came up with the size they installed.. But it was not our decision and we were never asked what size sink we wanted.. I'm just getting nervous now because I'm reading online that enlarging the sink cutout is not that simple, especially when using under mounts.. And personally the more I think about this the more I am getting pissed at this builder.. How do you just pick a sink size without confirming with the owner.. We had to sign off on fixtures before the order was placed and I have gone over the paperwork a dozen times at least.. There is nothing mentioned about kitchen sink or size so this will fall on the builder.. I have to sign off on everything so there is now way a sink should have been used without me signing off on it so this should be fun.. I foresee and ugly battle ahead with the sink and edge issue..

  • llcp93
    6 years ago

    Is the kitchen sink not listed with the other bathroom sink fixtures? You picked those, right? That is odd to me indeed that you were not asked about the kitchen sink or knew to order one. In our original build and our recent remodel, we had to supply the granite fabricators with the sink installation instructions, so someone gave your granite fabricator a set of cut out/installation instructions. Granite fabricators do not want to screw up a slab so are usually very meticulous to have this info.

    Sounds like someone picked your sink for you or a miscommunication somewhere.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Zookeeper - As stated the kitchen sink was not listed on our plumbing fixtures that we needed to sign off on. EVERY other plumbing fixture was listed including bathroom sinks. We picked bathroom sinks when we went to pick plumbing fixtures.. I think the problem is that there was no communication from the builder regarding the kitchen sink.. The only thing the builder said was that they normally use Elkay sinks and asked at the very beginning if we were doing stainless in the kitchen for everything or if we wanted some kind of color sink.. My assumption here is that the builder just decided to put a sink in that he felt was ok without confirming with us. So now we have a problem in that we are not happy with the size of the sink.. My wife and I have been going back and forth all night about this.. We are kicking ourselves for not even thinking about the kitchen sink when they said they were doing the granite install, but on the same page we feel as though this is something the builder should have confirmed before making the decision that he did... Every other aspect of our build they have come to us before doing things and asked if we wanted standard or an upgrade and had to sign off.. For example the stairs we had to pick between standard or upgraded balusters, standard or upgraded trim, standard or upgraded floors, standard or upgraded carpet, etc... Why they would not confirm the sink size is beyond me.. Again, I am just hoping this is something that can be easily fixed..

  • chisue
    6 years ago

    Time to bargain. Mistakes are now working in your favor.

    You get a much larger sink, of your choice, and the granite is cut larger to accommodate it. (The granite does appear to be cut out of square for this, but it may just be the camera angle.)

    In return, you *reluctantly* agree to accept the vanities. I predict you will soon forget about the edge -- but don't SAY that now.

  • deeinohio
    6 years ago

    My guess is the sink came free with the granite installation, and that's why you weren't asked. Don't compromise. This will affect the efficient function of your kitchen every day, and, correspondingly, the carefree enjoyment of your new home. The granite edges? Not so much. I actually prefer a simpler edge.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Well.. Here is the update.. I met with the builder and he said he spoke with the granite fabricator and the edge mishap is on the fabricator.. Apparently the guy who came to site to do the measurements and create the template wrote down that the bathroom vanities get the standard/beveled edge and forgot to change it after the builder told him.. The builder said the fabricator was very apologetic and said he would send his crew out right away to removed the bathroom vanities and change the edge.. apparently since its a full beveled edge there is no problem with going to the ogee edge.. I inquired about damaged the granite and or cabinet when removing but the builder said it would be no problem and they have had to remove granite in the past to get behind walls.. We were very happy to see that they owned up to the mistake and are going to make it right..


    On the other hand they are turning their heads on the kitchen sink issue.. The builder is claiming that we picked this sink when we went to the plumbing fixture store.. I told him flat out that we did not pick out our sink and we never discussed a size and showed him the plumbing fixture signoff sheet.. He said that he remembers showing us the kitchen sink at the store and I told him the only thing we discussed was the color of the sink and that they told us they use Elkay sinks.. I said that those were the only items that were agreed upon.. When I asked him why I had to sign off on all of the other plumbing fixtures and not the kitchen sink he was speechless and had no answer.. He said that the sink he gave is a "standard" kitchen sink size (the sink is an Elkay 16.5x20.5) He is saying he wants us to be "happy" but that due to the installation of granite and the way it was cut we can only enlarge the sink length or the left to right size.. He claims the width (front to back) cannot changed because they drilled for the faucet and there is only 1.5 inches between the sink and faucet that the sinks "bezel" is already touching the hole for faucet.. He said when the fabricator returns to remove the bathroom vanities he will have him check the room under the cabinet to see how much bigger we could go.. The problem now being that I checked online for Elkay sinks and see that they don't make any single basin sinks bigger in the length when using a 16.5 width.. However if they would have gone 18 there is a wide variety.. The only option we have if staying with Elkay is to do a double basin..

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Ok.. so just another update.. apparently I misunderstood how the measurements of the sink work.. I found the model number off of the box of the sink and found that we actually have an 18 1/4 wide (back to front) sink.. This includes the undermount lip but the actual basin is 15 3/4.. With this newly found knowledge I looked online again and found that Elkay does make two sinks that are very close in width.. The width on the two new models is 18 1/2 so I am hoping that they can find 1/4 inch to work with in the width.. The two new sizes in length can get us either 24 or 28 inches compared to the 21 inches we have now.. I did a quick, aka crappy, photoshop of what the other sinks would look like.. We talked with the inlaws and most said to get the biggest that will fit but wanted to get some more opinions.. This will also be pending the input from the fabricator.. I looked inside the bottom of the cabinet and there is definately room to play.. They currently have an extra 4 inches on the right and left of the sink.. There was also a little room in the front of sink and they have the little in the rear between sink and faucet cutout.. The main thing will be if they can cut the granite in place or will have to remove.. We also want to make sure the integrity of the granite is not compromised..

    Current Sink at 21inches:



    24 inch sink:



    28 inch sink:



  • cpartist
    6 years ago

    You want at least the 28" sink. And what I don't understand is if you have a 36" cabinet, why they only put in a 21" sink. Something doesn't smell right. Common sense says that if you have a 36" sink base you're not putting in only a 21" sink.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Cpartist - As I said.. The project manager seems to recall that he pointed out our sink while we were shopping at the fixture place.. I stressed to him that the only thing he went over was the brand and color sink and that we never went over available sizes nor did we ever sign off on the size... But the project manager claims that he showed us the exact sink that we were getting.. I told him that we would remember if we talked about it and also we would have or should have had to sign off on it which we never did.. We also pointed out that if they had the exact sink then why was it not listed on our plumbing fixture printout but again he had no excuse as to why it was not there or why we did not have to sign off on it.. That is the big issue.. We have had to sign off on EVERYTHING.. Cabinets, granite color, tile selections, etc.. So why not the sink.. Also good building practice would be to confirm such choices before doing the work.. Apparently though the 21 inch sink is the "standard" for all kitchens or at least that is what he said.. But regardless.. We are in the boat and the only way to get a larger width (front to back) is going to be purchasing a new slab and starting over which they are not going to do and I am not paying for.. And instead of getting into a legal battle with them we feel that we should accept that they will see about enlarging the current sink to a new length (right to left).. He seems to think that enlarging the sink should not be a problem and that the only thing is that we would need to stay at the same width (front to back) due to the faucet being drilled.. I already advised him of the two sinks that I found.. He is going to have me meet with him and fabricator to discuss what options are available..

  • cpartist
    6 years ago

    21 inch sink is the "standard" for all kitchens

    No that is a prep sink size, not a standard sink size. It's not even large enough to put a proper pot in.

    Don't give in on this one since you didn't sign off on it. Also look at other brands and see if another brand would give you what you want.

  • _sophiewheeler
    6 years ago

    21" is bathroom sized ''standard''. Standard for a kitchen is 33" W. He should at least get his lies straight. That is a 100% do over. Someone wrote down ''single'' sink and not ''large single''.

    An ogee edge requires additional, overhang to be done properly. If he just pulls off the existing bath tops and tries to retrofit the edge to them, your overhang will be too shallow. It requires new slabs in order to have the traditional 1 1/2" overhang.

  • chisue
    6 years ago

    I have a 36" cabinet with a sink that is 15" X 34" (interior measure). Mine is double, with the left side larger (21" length interior) and deeper. That side also has a little 'blip' outwards at the upper left side -- fits two 12" frying pans. OK, but not OK if it were my only sink.

    Exactly what is the problem here? Can the wrong sink be pulled and the slab re-cut and polished in place? Have you offered the trade-off: Leave bathrooms alone but re-cut the kitchen slab? Both issues are fabricator expenses.

    Is this some exotic granite? Should the slab be damaged, is more available? How available is the sink you want?

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Sophie - I could see in his face that the sink comment was a straight up lie.. He is fumbling for excuses as to why they used the sink that they did.. The only thing he has to fall back on and he keeps saying is "I showed you the sink when we picked fixtures".. No matter how many times he says it we both know that we never discussed the actual size of the sink.. And from what I am reading online it would be common sense to go with a bigger sink in the base cabinet size we have.. But the end result is that we cannot go any deeper (front to back) with the sink without having to replace the entire slab or having to cut the current slab and retrofit another piece which would mean having a another seam.. As far as the overhang goes, I expressed my concerns with this to my builder.. The first thing I asked him was if the overhang would change and he says that it would not.. He would be stupid to lie since we have the entire kitchen slab that we can compare it to.. He assured me that there would be no difference..


    Chisue - We are waiting to hear back on what the options are for the sink.. At this point it is a flip of the coin if they can do ANYTHING.. But the most we are going to be able to do is enlarge the sink length (left to right).. The way they placed the sink and faucet cutout we cannot go any larger with the width (front to back) without having to redo the entire slab.. The granite is an entry level granite called "Fiesta Gold" which is all that our 8k allowance covered.. The slab yard we visited had about 10 slabs in stock so it is a common slab.. The problem that I am foreseeing and something I can almost guarantee is that the builder and/or fabricator is going to want us to sign off that if there is damage that we are responsible and will have to pay to replace which is no longer in our budget.. Based on my builders pricing I would imagine replacing that section would cost 3k minimum.. As far as offering a trade-off it is too late.. I went back to the house late last night to look at the granite one more time with the bevel edge and it was already gone.. So we will be finding out soon how the edge came out..

  • cpartist
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    " But the end result is that we cannot go any deeper (front to back) with the sink without having to replace the entire slab or having to cut the current slab"

    Frankly, that is not your problem. It is his problem and he needs to make good on it. Not find a half a**ed solution that will have you looking angrily at the sink every time you come into the kitchen.

    Let him find you a new slab since it's an entry level slab and he can eat the expense of getting you the proper sink with the proper granite done properly.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Cpartist - Trust me.. I know that is the "right" thing but I can see the stance by builder is taking.. Personally I think I could destroy him in court with the facts that I have.. But that means a hold off on CO and moving foward.. Hopefully we can find some middle ground.. But a new slab is out of the question for these guys.. The only way I can see going down that road is if they tell me that there is nothing they can do with the current sink.. Then we will have a fight..

  • chisue
    6 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Perhaps the sink cannot expand back because the cut for the faucet is as far back as it can go without the faucet bashing the bar top above it?

    Can you shop around to see what a slab of "Fiesta Gold" costs, wholesale? Does this stretch of counter go to the wall now?

    IF you have to have a new slab, and IF the faucet can't move back...consider this. My sink cabinet is three inches forward from the rest of my lower cabinets. Fluted panels are set on a diagonal back to cabinets flanking the sink cabinet. This provides more space for sink and faucet. (My cooktop drawer cabinet has the same configuration.)

    Keep taking deep breaths. If this is the only slip-up, you are way ahead of the rest of us!

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    chisue - This is far from being the only slip-up during this build.. Literally EVERY portion of the build had some kind of slip-up.. Some things were minor but other things we kind of a big deall.. Things like using the wrong size block for foundation and shifting the floorplan 8 inches during framing... And EVERYTHING is an upgrade.. When we negotiated the house we were told that our budgets were all in place for high end finishes yet every single time the only thing included is builder grade materials.. We easily spent an extra 30k on upgrades.. All for things that we were under impression was included..

  • amberm145
    6 years ago

    I'm not really sure what the problem is here. Unless you have custom cabinets, they are a standard depth, 24". Sinks are designed to fit into these 24" deep cabinets, so there isn't a whole lot of range in sizes front to back.

    I don't think it even matters if he "showed" you the sink. Unless it was mounted in a 36" wide cabinet and you signed off on it, how were you supposed to judge the size?

  • Rachel (Zone 7A + wind)
    6 years ago

    I'd go with the 28" wide sink and have them cut it with a negative reveal which will make the current width correct based upon what you've written. A negative reveal is desirable anyway so you get lucky if they can pull it off.

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    amberm - that is kinda the point I was making.. We had to sign off on
    the fixtures but this is the one fixture we didnt sign off on and look
    what happens..Especially since we picked plumbing fixtures about 8 or 9 months ago.. At the very least he should have confirmed the sink size.. Even if he truly believes that we picked the sink it should have been confirmed before any cutting was done..


    Mama Rachel - At this point we are leaning towards the 28 if it can be done.. We are keeping our fingers crossed and hoping.. We currently have a negative reveal so I suppose we could theoretically leave the width and it would just add an additional 1/8 in the front and back overhangs.. The big thing is going to be if they are willing to cut it.. We are still waiting on the fabricator to let us know...

  • njbuilding143
    Original Author
    6 years ago

    Well I got a new update... As I mentioned previously the bathroom vanities were removed and are back in the shop to correct the edge.. This was before I even had any time to speak with the wife and think about negotiating.. Today I receive a phone call from the project manager.. He tells me that they can enlarge the sink and give us the 24 or the 28 inch sink that has the same width.. The fabricator looked over the specs of the new sinks and both will work.. HOWEVER, with that said I have two options.. Option #1 is to have the fabricator come to the site and do the cut with the granite installed.. Project manager says that the only drawback is that they will have to buff the edge by hand and the finish will not be "as good" as we have now since they do the buffing with a machine at the shop.. Option #2 is to have them take the slab out of the house and bring it back to the shop.. They will do the cut there and use machine to buff the edge.. The exception with option #2 is that if the granite breaks it will not be on the fabricator and I would be responsible.. At this point I flip out on the builder and ask how I am supposed to get a finished product that is less quality then what I would have gotten because they failed to go over the sink size.. The project manager claims again that he did show us the exact sink.. Then goes on to say that they have had to enlarge sinks in the past and no one has ever noticed the difference and that even though its done by hand it still comes out great.. He says that if we go with option 2 and something happens it will cost roughly 2k-3k to replace and said that it would fall on me regardless of the whole issue that they never went over or confirmed sink size..


    With that said I am thinking that its not worth the risk of 2-3k to have them take it out.. The builder is obviously taking a strong stance as I assumed they would since granite is an expensive item and not something they can make up for.. So if something goes wrong and it did fall on them its money out of their pocket and not something they can just have their hourly employees fix.. I am thinking of just letting them cut the granite at site and leave it at that.. At this point we have upgraded so many things that our contingency fund is almost depleted and the risk of 2-3k is too high for us.. Has anyone seen site buffed granite? Is it something that will be noticeable compared to what we have seen now?

  • chisue
    6 years ago

    Tell them to do it on site. If you can't live with the rebuffed part, that can probably be improved down the road.

    So sorry this has taken another wrong turn just as you are getting to completion. (We had to move out of our new home for a week while a new floor company came in to sand, re-stain and re-poly the entire house. First guy's work was *awful*. Yes, the GC paid for the work and the lodging, but it was a lot of hassle for us.)

  • jn3344
    6 years ago

    They cut and buffed one of my edges in the house. I can't tell the difference. It was quartz.

    Good job getting the larger sink.

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