My realtor's answer about the company they sent out:

"
That doesn’t sound good….don’t pay it and I will call them about
it."

So there you go. The sale is over and done with and I didn't even pay them a commission, the seller did.

You can't give me a definitive judgment... except of me, personally, over the internet, and I'm still wrong. HA! I told you as master electrician said it was wrong by opening the unit. I guess they're wrong too? And that they saw it immediately counts for nothing? Really now? Snap judgments are more about me, than the situation.

Is it under warranty? Was the installation done incorrectly?

Just seems like you're holding the wrong party responsible.

I'm making judgement calls based on the extremely limited supplied information (which isn't necessarily accurate).

You still haven't described what you mean by "poor manner". I can't change my mind and agree with you until you give me more information to support your side.

I never said you're definitely wrong. I said it sounds to me like it shouldn't have been something that could be expected to be caught.

And of course the master electrician found the problem right away. It was BROKEN when he looked at it. It wasn't when the inspector did. The inspector probably would have found the problem if it was broken when he looked at it.

But I'm guessing this is another post where you ask a question but only want to hear opinions if they agree with yours.

My realtor's answer about the company they sent out:

" That doesn’t sound good….don’t pay it and I will call them about it."

So there you go. The sale is over and done with and I didn't even pay them a commission, the seller did.

You can't give me a definitive judgment... except of me, personally, over the internet, and I'm still wrong. HA! I told you as master electrician said it was wrong by opening the unit. I guess they're wrong too? And that they saw it immediately counts for nothing? Really now? Snap judgments are more about me, than the situation.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Your first post: I had a specific issue I wanted checked and a specialist came, but they didn't get it right. At all. I would've made the current owner fix it had they still owned the house. I just bought in October. What would you do? I received the bill to pay them and I'm not sure what I want to do.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Huh? WHAT SITUATION? I cannot see anything in your OP about what the problem was about. All it said was "specific issue". How can I comment on your problem, if you are so vague as to not even tell us what it was?

gyr_falcon,

Read a little further down the thread. He says it was a loose wire somewhere in the HVAC system and it fell off a week after the inspection.

He refuses to give any more details than that even though I've repeatedly asked him several specific questions.

Just nod and agree with him. That's all he wants. No need for a discussion.

Having purchased a new home within the past year, I can tell you what my experience was. Can't say if this is a typical experience, but the inspection was very thorough. First, the inspector invited me (as the buyer paying for the inspection) to shadow him to the places I could reasonably be expected to be able to go (I didn't go on the roof, etc.) My inspector did, in fact, check the connections to various HVAC systems. There are three AC Combo Units on my home and he took the panels off each of them, inspected inside and did tug on wires to check for loose connections. In the kitchen he pulled away the range and fridge in the guest house (couldn't in the main house b/c the fridge is built-in) to make sure the plugs fit firmly in the outlets. Maybe this isn't the typical level of service, but I sure would expect it to be when you are making what is probably the largest purchase in your life. I'm sorry your inspector did not meet your expectations. You should review your contract to see what, if anything, was described by way of what would be inspected and how.

Rob, I removed the link to your other post, which seems to have upset you. But now most don't know what I am referring to in my first sentence. Since you started both threads, I didn't realize you...whatever. Reabsorbing some of the sorry.

greg_2015

Yes, I see that now greg. I was busy signing in for my airline check-ins between reading and posting (with Southwest, literally seconds count if you want to load ASAP! ) Then I guess she deleted posts and/or edited stuff in her posts during the interim.

JSYK, rob is a "her". She likes to refer those unaware to the avatar and an eye doctor. I'm apparently a bird that looks like red lotus flowers if my name and avatar are accurate. ;)

Rob: If the small cost of a service call get's you this upset - don't be a homeowner. Maybe you will argue with the plumber, electrician, roofer, etc, etc.

Him or her. Doesn't really matter. I've personally never known a female to go by "Rob" which is why I made the assumption.

Robin ... yes ... but not Rob.

Sorry if that offended you, Rob.

If the name is more gender neutral or ambiguous, I usually try to avoid making assumptions and refer to them as 'they'. I wish there was a better singular gender neutral pronoun in the English language. Most people get offended if you use 'it'. :)

I've known a lot of people who use profile pics that are of their loved ones instead of themselves, so I never pay attention to those. Especially since they are so tiny on this site.

Oh, and just in case mimipadv's short post gets lost in all of this other stuff, I'd just like to point out that she (he?) has a REALLY good point.

If this HVAC was installed less than a year ago, I think I'd be going after the installer instead of the inspector.

But maybe at this point it's too late since she went with a third party electrician instead of contacting the installer when something went wrong? I honestly don't know how this works, so I'm actually asking this question. Wouldn't the installer have to be given an opportunity to fix their own mistake before calling someone else in and charging it back to the installer?

I've deleted nothing. I'm amused at how worked up y'all are, but not upset!

If an inspector was paid to find what was wrong so that the seller was to fix it before I bought it... then I'm not holding the HVAC company as wrong. It's fixed. But I'm not paying for an inspector (any gender) who was hired to tell me all about the unit, that didn't actually inspect the unit. They didn't do their job. Or if they did, they didn't do it well since it took 30 seconds to see it with a bare eye and no meter.

Oh, I don't trust the HVAC company to redo it (I saw their work). I'm happy to have someone I trust to fix it and pay for it.

Did you happened to find out whether the warranty was transferable, since the unit is so new?

You should have known to do that, if this was available to you, such that you could have been protected.

As a somewhat seasoned homeowner/buyer/seller, I would ask about anything and everything still under warranty, and pursue transfer.

Even if the HVAC company did install it incorrectly, it would behoove the homeowner to give said company the opportunity to fix it.

That would make fiscal sense to me and I would pursue that option before I'd pursue damages for the inspector whom you feel failed you.

In any case, home ownership is a money suck.

With an n=1 of the HVAC companies work, I'd hardly jump to any conclusions.

Don't know what n=1 that means (I guess you mean I'm only giving one company a shot?), but I don't hire people who did shoddy work to do more shoddy work. I don't mind paying the electrician. But I do mind paying an inspector to not inspect

;)

It took 30 seconds to see it with a bare eye and no meter when it was actually broken a week later.

You keep ignoring that qualifier.

n=1 means you have 1 experience, one data point and that's hardly enough data to make the broad assumption that the company does shoddy work.

At least that's how my mind works.

Again, my advice would be to see if it's under warranty and if it is, have the HVAC company fix it. Tell them you want an experienced worker, or the supervisor to make you feel assured they will get it right this time.

I would try my best to not pay for this fix, and I think you're going about it in way that's sort of like shooting yourself in the foot.

You may disagree, but I think other homeowners who have been in this sort of crappy situation would, because, as I said, houses are a money suck.

After your first rodeo or three, you wise up ;-)

Ok, that makes sense mimipadv

I don't trust the HVAC company to redo it (I saw their work).

You keep dropping these tidbits of information that hint at more of a story, but don't actually explain them any more thoroughly. I'm a sucker for trying to get more information.

Is there more to this HVAC installation that was a problem other than one loose wire?

I think what mimipadv is saying is that you've seen one installation by this HVAC company and it sounds like there was one small little problem with it. To jump to the conclusion that they are incompetent is quite a leap. Mistakes happen. (Edit: I posted at the same time as mimpadv above, so it looks like my understanding was correct)

Unless there is a lot more to this story than you're willing to tell us.

Wow weird GW gremlins today. The post I copied showed directly below mine when I came in this morning, then disappeared, then reappeared lower in the thread (or updated to insert the other posts between?). I have read about other members having posts in threads do that too. Sorry I misinterpreted it as having been deleted, when it was playing internet games. It is really confusing when that happens!

greg, when you hire an inspector, what do you expect to get for your money? The wire wasn't completely laying down on the ground, sure, but it was an obviously loose connection that was seen with the naked eye upon only opening the cover. But open it up and anyone could've seen it! So they obviously didn't check out the main wiring. I think my inspection should be much like Jay explained since I hired a specialist. This was on top of the main house inspection.

Do you go around paying for what services that aren't done? If you hired someone to wash your car and you came back with it still covered dust, you'd still pay them? You go ahead. I'm not into doing that.

Okay, well maybe I've misunderstood something.

I thought it was connected and working fine when the inspector looked at it.

Then sometime in the next week, the connection failed and the wire came off and the unit no longer worked.

At which point, the electrician came in and saw the disconnected wire.

Where is my misunderstanding?

Now you're saying that the wire was disconnected when the inspection took place? So the HVAC didn't run, but nobody noticed?!?

This seems a specific type of fishing expedition. lol

The wire was loose then, but the unit did run. Until it had to run full time. Once we got there it did well, then it ran sporadically, and then not at all! I had to do something and it was a night that was in the 40s with no heat. I guess we could've just snuggled up under the covers, but I wasn't so sure how long it might take if the unit or a part needed replacing. Luckily, it took ten minutes to fix.

I just noticed that you asked me a specific question and I didn't answer it. I wouldn't want to do that since that is the action that I'm complaining about with you.

when you hire an inspector, what do you expect to get for your money?

For
a couple of hundred dollars, I would expect someone to give me a
general idea about the quality of an installation or possible potential
problems or just a general look. It's only a couple of hundred dollars
and a couple of hours (at most) of their time. I'd like them to be as
thorough as possible in that time frame, but there is no way for them to
catch EVERY little thing.

AtomicJay's situation sounds great!
But I guarantee you that even as thorough as that inspection seemed to
be, they didn't check EVERYTHING.

I can't judge whether your inspection was just as thorough or not. I wasn't there. Neither were you. ;)

Maybe it was a horrible inspection. But maybe it was also extremely thorough and this one little item slipped through.Hard to judge. Even harder to prove.

The short answer to your question is yes, you can probably get your money back. If you hired an additional inspector to specifically look at the HVAC (I assume you actually got an HVAC company to do an inspection of the system, but that is really neither here nor there), and a problem occurs shortly after inspection, you will very likely prevail.

The problem becomes is it worth your time. You can't simply not pay them, you either need something in writing that releases you from payment or you need to pay them and take them to small claims court. In small claims court you are pretty likely to prevail, it doesn't matter how good the rest of their inspection was, nor does it matter if the damage was present or appeared later, a judge is likely to conclude that the damage that became apparent later was caused by their inspection or missed in their inspection, and they were hired to look at the HVAC and thus had should have been competent in that area.

However, whether a payment reduction is worth your time is a whole other story, obviously a release is pretty easy but a court case is another story.

As an observation on the previous conversations, having installed several HVAC systems, a loose wire is really not that big a deal. Loose wires don't typically indicate shoddy work, at least not on the part of the installer, they are much more likely to indicate shoddy manufacturing. However, you note, "master electrician said it was wrong by opening the unit." I would never say a loose wire was wrong, I would just say it was a loose wire. When I read that, I read wired wrong, just curious if it was wired correctly or wrong.

It took 10 minutes to fix,... why all the fuss?

Asking if it was reasonable to suggest I not pay an inspector who didn't inspect, and rather, to discuss it with the company, isn't a fuss? Why was it unreasonable idea is what I am asking myself at the end of all this thread. And a good laugh. Still shaking my head and such venom!

;)

Wait, did you pay the inspector? I thought you were wondering about getting your money back because you feel he missed something obvious.

Thanks.

You never actually asked if it was reasonable to discuss it with the company. If you'd asked that, I would have said "Sure, go ahead. It can't hurt but I'd consider it a waste of time."

You asked "What would you do?"

You then started throwing out accusations that the inspector was incompetent and didn't even inspect the unit. I disputed that because from the tiny amount of information you've given us, there is no reason to believe that's true. It was a minor little problem that got missed.

There were also accusations that the original HVAC installer was also incompetent. Again, no reason to believe that.

You keep saying that the loose connection should have been obviously visible. I disagree with that.

What would I do? I'd just pay the bills and move on with my life. We are talking about a very small amount of money. The loose wire didn't burn down your house or anything.

If you don't want to do that and you want discuss it with the inspector, I'd really suggest that you just stick with the facts and not make any accusations. Just say that there was a wire that came loose and you were a little disappointed since you'd just had an inspection. Leave it at that. Maybe they'll give you a reduction on the bill, maybe they won't.

OP, are you a first-time home owner?

I ask because this would be a little blip on my radar, maybe.

"Is it under $500?".

Whew!

We're in a 50-year old house and we replaced our entire HVAC within a year or two of moving in.

Did it all pass inspection? You betcha.

As they say, spit happens. I've learned to roll with the punches and again, houses are money sucks ;-)

My bottom line advice (well, you sort of asked!)?

Stop tilting at windmills.

Send a check into the inspector, minus the $50 for the service call that you had to pay for someone to come out to the home to tighten up your loose screws. Attach a note explaining the check amount. Case closed.

Well ... that's not really 'case closed'. The inspector could put a lien against the house for the unpaid bill. You don't get to decide how much you're going to pay someone for their services.

But I guess it's putting the ball in their court and they can decide whether the small amount of money is worth pursuing. But from what I understand, putting a lien on a house is an extremely easy process.

That's what I would do. It costs almost $50 to attach a lien. And they go away after 6 months if the lien holder has not sent a certified letter to the home owner that there is a lien in affect, and that a court proceeding has been set up within 6 months of the recording.

I think the OP is making a mistaken assumption. I am not being venomous, but the problem you are describing can't be caused by a wire that was never attached.

There are basically 3 reasons that cause electrical equipment to work but get progressively more intermittent over time and eventually stop working. (1) the parts are wired or powered incorrectly causing stress failures on electrical parts, this didn't happen as the solution would have involved replacing an electrical or pump part. (2) This happens when a wire or part comes into contact with another wire or part with a shorter path to the ground and shorts out the system, shorts can be sporadic in the beginning and worse over time, a loose wire can but doesn't always cause a short. (3) A wire coming loose will occasionally make contact but over time disengage to the point contact is no longer made.

The problem you are describing sounds most like 3. In other words the wire wouldn't have been hanging there during the inspection. It might have been less than fully tightened and knocked even looser during the inspection, but the unit wouldn't run at all with a necessary connection unhooked. It is that simple.

If the bill for the inspection was greater than the bill for repair you are probably are going to have to pay the difference, and you should want to.

I don't understand how anyone would risk a lien on their house for $50. As the lyrics go, from one of the most irritating and contagious ear worms from the movie "Frozen", let it go.

rob, did you end up going to the inspection? I thought you did as you declared it a waste of time. So you would know if the inspector had opened the box or not.

This thread makes me realise that inspectors are probably a lot better than I had assumed.

The patience of the above posters impresses me.

Nobody's putting a lien on the house. They're talking to the inspector's group.

I did go, it was a waste of my time because it was in an incredibly detailed report. So much so, I hired ANOTHER inspector for only the HVAC issues. A specialist should be very very very very very detailed in their inspection.

I'm glad you're impressed with my patience. I've had people contacting me wondering what's up with the hostility on this thread directed at me. So I guess you can see it two ways.

Whatever it takes to make you feel whole, I hope you get it.

In the end, I may pay. We'll see what the answer is :)

What was in the original report that led you to want to hire a specialist for the HVAC? I'm just curious.

A HVAC that was installed less than a year ago wouldn't normally make an inspector suggest that you get it thoroughly inspected. What was the thing that flagged further investigation?

Did the HVAC inspector find anything wrong?

BTW - If any of my posts have come across as hostile, that wasn't the intent. I've felt a little frustrated at times because you aren't answering questions that would lead to a better understanding of situation, but I haven't meant to be mean.

In fact, you almost seem to be purposely muddying the waters by
answering questions in a twisted manner. For instance, tete_a_tete
asked if you attended the inspection. You basically answered 'yes', but
you are referring to the original inspection whereas tete was obviously
referring to the HVAC inspection (which you didn't attend). So whereas
your response isn't wrong, it skews everyone's understanding of the
situation.

I've made a few little digs that alluded to the other thread you posted about whether you should go to an inspection or not, but those were meant to be humorous ... not mean.

Sorry if I've offended.

Just a couple of final comments.

First, you are only entitled to a discount in the amount that you actually had to spend. So if the cost of the inspection is greater than the cost of the repairs you will probably prevail for a cost reduction equal to the repair cost. You can't get a windfall though, this type of mistake can't put you in a better position than you would have been had there been no mistake.

Second, while I believe you have a good case there is a saying that my attorney has to tell me occasionally. "It usually takes someone standing on principle to stop crooks and it is really easy to stand on principle, just take your wallet out and hand it to me." This is something I think many people have alluded to, while you may be right, it may be Quixotic to prove.

I've attended all THREE inspections. tete-a-tete seemed only to ask about the original inspection and I answered that. However, I do think I am answering in a straightforward way, so let's chalk it up to speaking in "different" languages as to why we don't agree ;)

Yes, there were issues with HVAC. I don't need to explain what but enough that I wanted a specialist to check the entire system. They knew that. I really don't understand the first degree of my mindset? I keep reading the most expensive investment, you should make sure it's protected by having an inspection and attend it... and then accused of being nitpicky doesn't make sense. Which am I? Negligent or worried to death?

To answer the next question, I had the general inspector come back a second time and make sure they fixed the things they fixed which needed meters to check because A) I don't have meters and B) they supplied a general "we fixed all your concerns" letter and didn't state anything specific. It came across as trust us , and I just didn't trust the plumbing pressure (the hot water heater had no outlet pipe for instance?! what the?!) had been turned down, or that fuses were wired correctly after having been done incorrectly (different company than the HVAC group) before.

Now I'm even more confused. :)

The reason that I (and others) want to know if you attended the HVAC inspection is because you claim that the inspector didn't open up the panel and look inside. If you were there, then this can be taken as a fact and might show that it was a crappy inspection. If you weren't there, then this claim is just a guess.

So now you are saying that you attended all of the inspections?!? Including the HVAC inspection?

But earlier, you said that you didn't know if the inspector was male or female.

As I said, I'm totally confused and I imagine almost everyone else is. So congratulations, I've given up and I'll go away. :)

I hope that however it turns out, you are satisfied with the results.

I swear that THIS post will be my last. :)

Yes, there were issues with HVAC. I don't need to explain what but
enough that I wanted a specialist to check the entire system. They knew
that. I really don't understand the first degree of my mindset?

You don't need to answer the question about why you had a specific HVAC inspection and it has nothing to do with the issue of the loose wire. There is nothing wrong with getting lots of inspections, I was just curious and I was trying to engage in a conversation. It was OFF topic, but the ON topic conversation didn't seem to be going anywhere.

It came across as trust us , and I just didn't trust the plumbing pressure (the hot water heater had no outlet pipe for instance?! what the?!) had been turned down, or that fuses were wired correctly after having been done incorrectly (different company than the HVAC group) before.

How did you have any hot water if there was no outlet pipe on the water heater and you had a fuse box panel instead of a breaker panel?

er... I was impressed with other posters, rob. They have been incredibly patient with you.

You have to pay what is owed. Then, if you want to waste hours of your life in suing someone who probably doesn't deserve it, fine. That's your pererogerative.