You are at the right forum. Since I am not a pro I only comment on things decorative. In time one of the pro's will come by to advise you.

Thank you! emmarene, I will wait!

By the picture, I can't see if that's a decent splash block, but it's emptying out in an area where no plants are growing, Plants are what will keep the soil from eroding so you need some kind of groundcover or something in that area. Grass will probably not grow well because of the shade. Sometimes it takes a little doing to get it going, but just keep making the plant happy.

Creating a 6" recessed area in the lawn in not going to help curb appeal at all. It will create some maintenance problems, though.

A trellis set well away from the building would probably be the easiest way to screen the meters. An architectural panel would be my second choice. Be careful of creating an unwanted hiding space for some undesirable by having a screen be enough distance from the building. (Everything is a balancing act.)

I would remove the shrubs next to walk at left side. Shrubs at building need to be trimmed properly ... their height and depth should match; their sides and front should slope inward as they ascend (opposite of how they are now.)

I would not paint doors to match siding. It will look barracks-like. Paint it a value roughly equal to window panels.

The complaint about ice patches on sidewalk, you are probably limited as to what you can do considering how flat the grade is. If a walk has settled, the fix is to tear out and redo. Or lower the curb if the problem is at the city sidewalk. (Joke :-))

Thank you Yardvaark(9A) for your input! I will digest it and clarify,

Nice suggestion on the door pain color! I was playing around with the photo in mspaint, and saw what you are referring to as the barracks look. Does it matter that balconies on the opposite side of the bldg and throughout the complex (3 other building) are SW Walnut Brown? Railings are black, mulch red. Can change railing and/or mulch. Stuck with balconies.

I can do a trellis, maybe with the slats horizontal/ vertical rather than diagonal? I would have went with Walnut Brown... no? Match doors? Natural?

Back to the main problem, the area has sufficient light to grow. The foundation garden is mulched, a few weeks ago I dug a mini swale in an effort to redirect the downspout flow, it might look no plants.

I observed the area during a medium rain and the area on the right side (as you look at the photo) was soggy over the side walk to young arborvitae in front of the berm (not ours, no recourse) all the way to the right and the last 4 section of sidewalk adjacent to the street were flooded.

I did the calculations according Penn State Extension, Rain Garden and we would need half of the area recessed and flat if we keep the flow overland rather than underground (no good place to exit). The below photos are inspirations. I would not add pavers, but i am considering digging recessed areas in some sort of design and add rocks and plants that like wet feet and are suitable for the lowest area of a rain garden.

I don't think fixing the sidewalk will help until the the water runoff problem is resolved, no?

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The picture shows a pretty flat piece of ground with nothing jumping out specifically as the cause of drainage problems. You would have to give more detailed information in order for it to be adequately understood.

What's happening on the other side of a building that can be seen in the same picture might not matter. You'd need to weigh it relative to the importance of keeping a theme going.

The details of a trellis are something you would work out to suit yourself. There are probably many examples of ideas on Google Images.

Mulch is not going to hold against running water emptying out of a downspout during a storm. It must be plants because they are anchored with roots.

To each his own on the rain garden idea. I don't care for the look -- seems too busy looking -- or think it would work out well long term.

Thank you for your input! I appreciate it. My, admittedly novice, evaluation is that the erosion of soil, soggy soil after rain and sinking sidewalks are due to half of a 2200 sq ft roof draining thru 2 downspouts onto a 1200 sq foot flat plot of land with no where to go as it is bottom of hill and a berm is farther downhill to the right side of the photo, no?

Both downspouts empty onto grassy areas, the one shown on the right empties into the 4 ft long grassy swale

sorry... 10 ft long grassy swale

It looks like the general lay of land is sloping downward toward the street. Why is storm water not going to the street?

As long as downspout is not tearing up grass, what's wrong with it emptying onto grass?

The curb is higher than the sidewalk all the way down the street. The volume of water is high, it exits the downspout faster than it can be absorbed. There is a large berm (not ours) on the right side of the photo that stops the flow. The water is trapped, pools, ices, erodes.

the 10 ft swale we added at the end of the downspout extension was a joke. It didnt come even close to handling the volume

How are you defining "swale" as that last comment does not make sense.

Sounds like grade too flat to drain and it looks like building is built too low. One would need to know exact grade and overall lay of land to know if it can be fixed. Your best bet is consult with local drainage engineer or landscape architect for an opinion.

Interesting comment! Thank you.

This is my plan. The plants are not actual, just samples to demonstrate.

1. half of the sq ft of the lawn area will be recessed to accommodate the
   water coming from the 2 downspouts that drain the roof

2. some plants will be in the recessed area to absorb water, they will be
   planted next year. grasses will be sedges that like wet feet, etc. the area
   will not be overfilled as a typical rain garden as they get messy looking. it
   will b more controlled.

3. The soil around the existing apple tree will not be recessed as it would
not tolerate being that wet.

4. 2 to 3 ft wide area next to the sidewalk will be built up to contain
   water and keep it off the sidewalk

5. the recessed area will begin 10 ft from the foundation to keep it
   safe

6. would use removed soil to level balance of lawn

Why is it a goal to keep water off the sidewalk?

nowhere for downspout water to go, it sits as there is a berm to the right, lower down the hill. swampy. ices.

the only way i could send the water to the street would be to redo the street sidewalks and regrade the front of the building; or send the water over the walkway sidewalks, remove the tree, grind down the stump to grade the area to direct the water to a 3 ft wide opening at the end of the sidewalks.

Both those solutions are more costly and doesnt improve curb appeal. I thought this would be my best bet, and it is green.

Do you guys dislike how it looks?

I'm just being honest, but the proposed plan looks "busy" and contrived. The rocks arranged in waves do not read as "fitting in" to me. With all The shrubs, being isolated from one another, makes the overall scheme seem a bit straggly.

I agree it looks contrived. I 'm open to suggestion. in implementation i will try to make it make more sense, fit better, but it will still be contrived. This week or next i need to dig and install the stones or i will be dealing with icy sidewalks until February! The shrubs will come next year. I am open to suggestion

Part of the problem as I see it is that what you think improves the appearance, I think lessens it. Then, I can't see how all these rocks aren't in the end going to be seen as some sort of litter and maintenance problem. Seems to me you'd be better off leaving everything grass ... even if determined to create a water retention "bowl" in the yard. All the work (and expense) it would take to do this, I think it would be better to install an underground cavity (such as like what one could create out of a culvert) that temporarily retains water and doesn't cause total disruption of the landscape. Part of the problem in getting suggestions here is that we can't understand the fine nuances of the existing grade and the surrounding lay of land. From what I see, it looks like the only lower ground is the street. But I don't know if this is true.

the only lower ground is the street. i could put in a drywell, but i think it would concentrate the water. we are on karst land. hard to go under sidewalk and keep grade.

I have a swale in my backyard. It was just a low area I dug in the lawn. While I still had lawn it looked the the rest of the garden. I think I was being over cautious when I built it. My point is that it did not have rocks. You say someone recommended a French drain. Was that someone you hired?

Thank you Yardvaark and Emmarene for your time and effort. Directing a downspout to a raingarden is a good thing, they are widely supported by our township and Penn State U. If you dont trust that it is my only option, maybe just think of it as the option desired?

I am not married to rock. I used it as it will slow water flow and prevent mud this winter and after plants are installed, it will be rock mulch. Wood mulch would float and make a mess.

This area must be infiltrative rather than flow-through. A flat 6" recessed area, starting 10 ft from the firetower door (brown), 10 to 15 ft wide, along the building (40ft), left to right. It would end right before the apple tree. Then fill the area with grass, rock or rain garden or some combination.

I have to dig something this week, before the ground freezes and i want whatever I do now to be consistent with the long term plan.

I worked on some of the other options to try for a less contrived look, but not sure they are any better. lol. Whatever I do will have some larger rocks and about 100 plants, and an area the is set up like a dry river bed and subtle stepping stones / path from the firetower door as it is an emergency exit.

Does anyone have any suggestions on the layout, the shape of the inset area? Do y ou really like it better as it is now?

I took your input and applied it best I could with considerations, I need a shape easy for lawn mowing, I need plants in the rain garden (in spring) for their root systems.

First I drew the area to scale on graph paper and saw that my favorite look would not work.

I tried your suggestion, but added the small apple tree into the rock area (will be island style, to use your term) to simplify, and added a flavor of dry river bed. I will plant in spring, more plants than represented in my mock up.

Thank you again!

Let me offer some criticisms of your latest incarnation.

The gravel/rock area could better fit the overall shape. Since it is a contradictory shape relative to the overall garden shape, this makes it hard to convince the viewer that we are looking at something that might occur naturally.

This is not a criticism of the rain garden location, but I would not separate the location from the building with a grass strip. It would look more cohesive if the plantings were built out from the building and just included the rain garden as part of it ... with the grass being in the foreground (as viewed from street.)

I can't see a reason that the path for water coming from the downspout could not remain above grade (as opposed to putting it in a buried pipe.) In a pipe, it could be more troublesome to maintain. A path for it needs to be durable enough to withstand the flow of water, but rocks embedded in the soil surface could "flow" nicely with the overall scheme.

i think it is incredible that you are continuing to respond and I thank you. I am learning. I hope lol.

I woke up this morning knowing that the grass strip between the building and the gravel/river rock will not work. I don't like the look, I like the dark rock against the building, and lawn guys will spray grass clippings with the accompanying seeds creating a weedfest in both the foundation garden and the new garden. I prefer the path from the downspout to be above grade to avoid clogs and spilts, i know how to do that, but was concerned about the obstruction to lawn mowing. If the grassy strip is gone, that issue is resolved.

The usual criteria i read for rain gardens that are loaded with plants, is that they must be no less than 10 ft from the foundation. If i accept that, the area can be moved back a full 10ft, which would butt the whole garden against building. Grassy strip gone! I can grade the lawn on the street side of the rain garden to accept overflow, preventing overflow from going towards the building.

You do understand that turf grass is an acceptable planting for a rain garden. My unintentional rain garden is grass. It solves the planning problems of the garden. Put things where they make sense as a garden design, and let things fall where they may.

You are so lucky that your turf infiltrating swale, unintentional yet does the job for you! If only i were that lucky!

Other than doing this out of necessity, I look at the streetside of this building (actually the back of the building) and nothing comes to me as far as garden design! Any insight on that is welcome!

http://extension.psu.edu/plants/gardening/eco-friendly/rain-gardens/rain-gardens

http://www.oregonmetro.gov/sites/default/files/rain_gardens_and_swales_seminar.pdf

Daltonbengal, This is new to me and I am trying to learn. Is it the case that none of the water will be absorbed and must wait to evaporate?

Good morning Emmarene. I am trying to learn also. Water comes down the drain pipe from the roof faster than it can be absorbed so it needs some place to go. Water will always find a place to go but it might not be where you want it. Lol. Drain spout run off often causes water in basement. The goal of rain gardens, as it is I find in the links above, as to contain excess water and allow it to enter the earth slowly. The plants improved absorption especially in the heavy clay soil we have. It is quite possible that the term rain garden has come to mean different things in different parts of the country or different industries but this is where I am coming from on it.

My original idea was to go a little bit on the zen side and use the rock as mulch (prevent weeds and not float away ) and have plants a little farther apart than you would normally see in a rain garden. I see you guys on this forum prefer a natural look and I can see that point and am trying to adjust and will scale down what I am doing now to contain the water in order to have more freedom to adjust it this spring when I can add rocks and plants

Rock mulch is reasonable useless as a weed preventer in climates with rain. It's usual function is to cover and hold down the landscaping fabric that is trying to stop weeds. Even that doesn't work very well after some leaves blow in, decompose and make some soil for weeds to grow in. This is going to be a maintenance nightmare in a couple of years, and isn't going to be the easiest thing to get rid of.

Rain gardens are areas that aren't paved so water can be absorbed by the soil. The current idea is that they are planted with fancy plants, but anything that can handle being underwater for a day or two can be used. There are trees, shrubs - all sorts of things can be on that list. So the general idea of how to landscape the area should come first, then work on the plant selection that will be able to handle the water.

Have you run the numbers to see if this is a remotely reasonable idea? How big is the roof? How much runoff occurs in a 'normal' rain event? How large a rain garden is going to be needed to handle that much water? Will it fit in that area? Where does the extra go? This is where it should start.

Hi All! Thank you for all comments. I camped out at the location for a few hours, considering all comments, remeasuring grade etc. Im going back out now to confirm, I think I made an error in grade and have more to work with than I thought, I also thought that 10 ft was too wide for a foundation garden as all of ours (the only ones I actually measured in my life) are 3 and 4 ft wide. It will be easy to get the stormwater to the 10 ft mark without going underground! I found a better way for the overflow to go too. I have to go now as digging starts in an hour. I prob still dont have it right but... this is where i will start

I hope you dont give up on me, I hated the idea of all those rocks, your thought provoking questions were helpful.

Hi All, I used Penn State extension calculator to determine the sq ft i would need to accept the downspout water based on roof size, soil type and average rainfall - that was how I came up with the initial plan of a 10 ft wide recessed area.

Phase 1 - Goal - Stop melting roof snow from creating icy pond on walkway and street sidewalk as first step in overall plan redirect downspout and improve curb appeal.

Phase 2 Based on reactions to prior mock ups, i wanted dark stone or mulch to ground the bldg, a subtle safe walkway from the emergency door (the back of the building faces the street), a rain garden to be part dryriver bed, part plants and part graded lawn. Below is a draft, not shown isgrading from dry river bed out 6 additional ft across from left to right. The software I used has limited colors, river rock will be lighted than shown. Additional plants will be added.

For Phase 1 I would do the river rock and gravel right around it, and revamp the downspouts. All and any advise welcome!